Dan:

I am glad to hear you say you are going to insist on NC tomorrow morning. Another thought for you to consider is this. NC or you will expose their relationship. Once the relationship is exposed and if the affair still continues, then you might make her move out, which is what Plan B really is. You want the affair to be scrutinized by their co-workers, family, friends, and clergy etc. If the affair continues after full exposure happens then you want her to move away so you do not lose all your love for her. When she comes back, she comes back with strict terms of NC, etc.

After DD, I made my wife call the other man in my present. I even typed out everything that I wanted her to tell him. Later my wife told me the OM had a good laugh because he knew it was from me and not from her heart. A NC letter is better than the call, but as long as they work together, there is a built-in problem all by itself.

The bottom line is this. My wife agreed to not talk to her OM at work, but she did talk to him anyway. She promised to end the relationship with her OM, but she kept it going because she saw him everyday. She tried to end the relationship, but the OM didn't want it to end. Her relationship didn't end at all until she quit her job and the OM was completely away from her site and completely away from any and all contact.

Once real NC happened, my wife went into complete depression and she even hated me worse during that time. That might take a month or more until she starts acting better towards you. It might even take two to three more months past her depression stage to start reconnecting with you and it might even take longer for her to feel like she is back in love with you. My wife's NC was the middle of April and our intimacy level has increased substantially and she is openly telling me how much she loves me.

I want to take this one step further, your wife knows you will not allow her to continue the affair and she will likely quit the affair when you force her to stop. She will not quit it until she has to though. She may even be losing respect for you because you are not strongly fighting to protect the relationship by forcing her to quit.

If she refuses NC, call the OM's wife immediately and tell her everything you know, including your knowledge of the PA. She will tell you everything she knows too. That will create a partner in your quest to end the affair. Expose then tell your wife and see if that is enough to get her to stop. Eventually, you will force her hand to quit or move out.

The ball is in your hand now Dan. Suzet will help balance out my words and will give you her perspective. Good Luck.

TooSoon

<small>[ October 03, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

Desperatedan,

I’m also glad to hear you have decided to take the necessary steps – good for you! I just hope this time you will DO it (not just say you will <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and finally follow through. I don’t mean it harshly when I say this – I just feel very serious about this because I care about your well-being and the recovery of your M! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Don’t let your W or your fears prevent you again from taking the necessary steps to safe your M and heal yourself… Move through your fears and take action… We are here to support you through all of it and you are not alone. I understand this is difficult for you because you love your W and don’t want to lose her & your family, but if you can take a firm stand and follow through, this experience will make you so much stronger in the end - spiritually, mentally and emotionally. Although your W will feel VERY upset with you for some time, she will definitely gain much respect for you on the long run AND you will gain some self-respect too. I want to resend a message I have send to you much earlier in this thread and want you to read it again:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">…this doesn’t mean allowing yourself to be treated disrespectfully and as a doormat by your W… You must love her, fill her EN’s and do anything possible to have a successful plan A, BUT you have to stand on you rights and be firm on the things that’s important to save your M. Desperatedan, if you’re going to be patient with this continuous contact and allowing your W to get away with this disrespectful behavior towards you, there’s a chance that she might start to lose respect for you and treat you more disrespectfully. I know this is not fair, but I just give reality here… If things continue like this, later on your W might get the impression that you don’t really care enough to fight for her. At this stage, your W will be angry towards you and she will blame and resent you if you follow through with this MB approach, but later on, when the fog has lifted and you’re both in recovery, she will feel very proud of the man who has value her enough in spite of her wrong choices and actions to FIGHT for her! Think about that!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Toosoon are right when he says if your W don’t commit herself to NC and writing a NC-letter, the following step will be to expose her before you ask her to move out or move to plan B. Don’t skip the exposure phase. I see you’re still very hesitant to use exposure to stop the A, but exposure will be so effective if your W don’t stop this A. Exposure will help your W to become real again. Just look at Toosoon’s situation (and many other success stories on this site) and how effective exposure worked for them. Let your W know that you will have no other choice than to expose if she don’t wright a NC-letter and abide to it. If you’re then forced to expose, you have warned your W beforehand and then she can’t blame you for something she brought over herself.

Further, remember God is by your side and I believe on the long run everything will turn out for the good. Here is something I received today and want to share with you:

Through The Storm

Sometimes I feel alone, like a ship that's lost at sea,
Tossed amongst the waves of life, sinking helplessly.
Part of my soul holds onto life, the other says let go,
While confusion leaves me reeling, rocking to and fro.

Emotions strike like lightening, that pierces to my heart,
As I hide within myself, grasping for a strengthened part.
Just about to capsize, my voice wells from within,
Oh my God, I need You, You are my closest friend!

I do not want to drown, I do not want to sink...
Jesus, will you save me, my life is on the brink!
Then in the midst of darkness, I see a gentle Light,
As I fall upon my knees and cry, at such a precious sight.

Oh child, I've never left you, I've been here through the storm,
My heart has been so broken, to see you hurt and torn.
I could not calm your fears, until you called to Me.
Now faith will be your anchor, upon the towering sea.

We'll ride this gale together, to find the distant shore,
You are not alone, sweet child, I'm with you evermore.
Now peace be still and rest, cast your cares on me.
Through the storm, I'll guide you...You're no longer lost at sea.

Good luck Dan. Let us know what has transpired today.

Blessings,
Suzet

Great meaningful poem Suzet. Did you write it?

TooSoon

Hi TS and Suzet,

Well I did it this morning. Maybe I went the wrong way around it but I did it. First I told her that she must stop all communication, and text messages. She said "I'm trying but it's so hard." I said to her that it will never be easy and the only way to end it is to end it once and for all. She then withdrew into herself and I kept on at her to end it now. I said if you won't call him now or text him I will. She almost whimpered and said she doesn't know what to say or do. At this point I almost gave in. I love her so much and she was hurting bad. But I said to myself, if I can't do this now I will never be able to do it. It was 10:50 a.m. I said to her at 11:00 a.m. either you tell him or I will. I tried to have her do it but she just wouldn't, she just crawled into a ball, and I was ready to give her a hug and tell her everything will be alright. But I dialled his cell phone and when he answered I just told him that the affair is ending and ending right now and there will be no more text messages and any form of contact. He just said, okay and yes to eveything. And for good measure I told him that if I find out that they are still in contact he better watch out for I know where he lives. I ended the conversation and turned to W and said that there is now no excuse for her. I have ended it for her and she can stop trying because it's over. I also told her that if they persist I will tell his wife, all our co-workers and her Mum and most importantly our kids. I gave her another cell phone without his number on it and unless she deliberately gives it to OM he wouldn't know her number. After this W went into our bedroom and withdrew into herself. I went to work but had to come home because I was having one of my migraine attacks and I left my pills at home. When I got there W asked what I was doing at home and I told her. She said if I wanted to search the house I can but I won't find him. She was really getting quite mad and bitter. I then smelled cigarettes. I thought it was from her Mum who visited yesterday, you know how cigarette smoke hungs in the air. But she said "I was smoking." She has never touched a cigarette in all the years we've been together, in fact she can't stand the things. So I said you know you can't do that, you hate it! And she said I can do whatever I like. I couldn't argue with her when she is in one of these moods so I left and went back to work. Later I rang her and we spoke a bit and she was calmer then, I told her to let me know if our daughter rings. She rang me later and said that our daughter wasn't taking being away from home too well. We had a very nice and pleasant discussion about our daughter and I felt we were husband and wife again. W still sounded very depressed but at least she wasn't shutting me out. I will take the advice she gave to my daughter, she said to her "Don't look at it as three long years. Live life one day at a time. You made it through today, try to make it through tomorrow."
Did I handle that right? Or was I all over the place. I felt I should have done better but I was teetering between anger and love so I had to pull myself together and give it my best shot. We'll see what the next few days bring.
Thanks a lot for your support and advice.
God bless you.

Dan:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well I did it this morning. Maybe I went the wrong way around it but I did it. First I told her that she must stop all communication, and text messages. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am pleased you took a pro-active approach to ending the affair. It was needed and overdue.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She said "I'm trying but it's so hard." I said to her that it will never be easy and the only way to end it is to end it once and for all. She then withdrew into herself and I kept on at her to end it now. I said if you won't call him now or text him I will. She almost whimpered and said she doesn't know what to say or do. At this point I almost gave in. I love her so much and she was hurting bad. But I said to myself, if I can't do this now I will never be able to do it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife is in love and very addicted to the OM. She knew the affair would end and knew it had to end and so did the OM, but neither had the willpower to do it. You must not feel sorry for her at all and you must remain firm. Better stated as "tough love". My wife appealed to me and to our MC to allow her to continue to work at her job and with her OM. I told the MC that I cannot agree to it. I told the MC her staying at her job was equivalent to telling a heroin addict to quit taking heroin. The heroin addict agrees to quit the heroin and you leave a bag of heroin on the table and walk out of the room.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It was 10:50 a.m. I said to her at 11:00 a.m. either you tell him or I will. I tried to have her do it but she just wouldn't, she just crawled into a ball, and I was ready to give her a hug and tell her everything will be alright. But I dialed his cell phone and when he answered I just told him that the affair is ending and ending right now and there will be no more text messages and any form of contact. He just said, okay and yes to everything. And for good measure I told him that if I find out that they are still in contact he better watch out for I know where he lives. I ended the conversation and turned to W and said that there is now no excuse for her. I have ended it for her and she can stop trying because it's over. I also told her that if they persist I will tell his wife, all our co-workers and her Mum and most importantly our kids. I gave her another cell phone without his number on it and unless she deliberately gives it to OM he wouldn't know her number. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was not perfect because the ending came from you and not from her, but it is much better than doing nothing. You know she needs to quit her job to completely end her feelings. This thing is far from over but this step you took was a major step for your family. You must keep pressure on her. Let her know that the price will be huge if it continues. Let her know you have nothing to lose at this stage and if you lose her, the price will be huge.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I then smelled cigarettes. I thought it was from her Mum who visited yesterday, you know how cigarette smoke hungs in the air. But she said "I was smoking." She has never touched a cigarette in all the years we've been together, in fact she can't stand the things. So I said you know you can't do that, you hate it! And she said I can do whatever I like. I couldn't argue with her when she is in one of these moods so I left and went back to work. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife took up smoking too. She hadn’t smoked in years. Her drinking increased too. They need to cope somehow because they are in pain.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I couldn't argue with her when she is in one of these moods so I left and went back to work. Later I rang her and we spoke a bit and she was calmer then, I told her to let me know if our daughter rings. She rang me later and said that our daughter wasn't taking being away from home too well. We had a very nice and pleasant discussion about our daughter and I felt we were husband and wife again. W still sounded very depressed but at least she wasn't shutting me out. I will take the advice she gave to my daughter, she said to her "Don't look at it as three long years. Live life one day at a time. You made it through today, try to make it through tomorrow." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are in for an emotional roller coaster. This maybe harder than the affair since her depression is being caused from her missing her lover. She is not upset over the family destruction, over her lies, over her betrayal, just over missing her lover. Try and cope and be understanding. She remains very vulnerable and weak right now.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did I handle that right? Or was I all over the place. I felt I should have done better but I was teetering between anger and love so I had to pull myself together and give it my best shot. We'll see what the next few days bring. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you did good. Remember, there are no winner, just survivors in these matters. Keep us posted as you go. I am glad Suzet is back to help us in this next stage. She understands your wife's feelings better than I.

TooSoon

Toonsoon:
No, I didn’t write that poem although I love beautiful poems and wish I was a poetess myself! I regularly receive poems and other inspirational stuff from friends and relatives through e-mail and then I post & share it here on MB on this thread. You can take a look if you’re interested.

Dan:
Congratulations with the steps you’ve taken yesterday morning! Although I’m a FWW and understand & have empathy with your W’s addiction and “in love” feelings for the OM, at the same time I started to feel very upset & frustrated with your W’s continuous contact and disrespectful behavior towards you and the fact that you resisted to confront her and take a firm stand. I’m glad things has come this far now and this all was a good beginning. Your W can see now that you’re very serious about this and won’t tolerate her disrespectful behavior towards you any longer. However, as Toosoon have said, this is only the beginning and you must prepare yourself for a very difficult & emotional time to come, especially since your W will going through withdrawal and will experience intense depression, anxiety and feelings of anger & resentment towards you. It might be necessary for her to use AD’s if the depression & withdrawal becomes too severe. You must check your W and took her to a doctor if it becomes necessary.

For some time your W will see you as the ‘meanie’ who prevent her from having contact with the person she is in love with and she will resent you terribly for this. She will view you as the reason she can’t have any contact with her ‘lover’ and will probably blame you and accuse you of being uncaring, selfish & insensitive. I know this is very unfair towards you as the betrayed spouse and will be illogical & irrational bahaviour of your W, but this is all part of the process and "fog" and will pass too. Be prepared for this and know this will be normal behavior for a FWS, especailly during the beginning of withdrawal. Don’t pay too much attention to it or take it too personally.

Now is the time for you to stand very strong and don’t allow yourself to give in to your W again. You’ve taken a strong stand yesterday Dan and you must stick to this and show your W you’re serious and won’t allow to be manipulated by her any longer. That will mean if she breaks contact you must follow through and expose as you have said you will if she don’t keep NC. There is no turning back or postponement this time. The chance that your W might fail and contact OM again is very big because withdrawal is so hard. If this happens, just follow through and expose...except if your W is honest and remorsefull and tell you about it out of her own. It is possible that your W might slip out of weakness and feel remorsefull & repentant about it afterwards and tell you about it. From your W's attitude & actions you will know what will be the right thing to do and when it will be necessary and appropriate to take it too the next step and expose. On one or other stage your W will realize that you did this all for the protection and out of love for her and your M.

I’m just concerned about the fact that you are the one who contacted the OM and ended the A and not your W… Don’t understand me wrong, this was the right thing for you to do and you behaved the best you could under the circumstances, but the only problem is that OM know you are the one who insisted the A to end and not your W... Therefore it will be necessary for your W on some stage to write OM a NC letter and make it clear to him that she wants to work on her M and can't have any more contact with him whatsoever. A NC letter is primarily to show you and the OM that your W means business in wanting to recover your marriage. The NC-letter must be approved by you before she sends it.

Another thing: Until your W can find another job and quite her current job, she must make it very clear to OM that she will only deal and have contact with him at work on an impersonal and professional basis and that he must not make any attempts to have personal or intimate conversations with her. Everything must be strictly professional. She must make this clear to him in the NC-letter. In the meantime and until your W can find another job, you can help her by having minimum contact with OM at work by trying to change shifts and having the same shifts than her. At this stage it will be extremely difficult and nearly impossible for your W to keep things with OM impersonal, therefore I can go further and advice you to go to your W’s boss and explain the situation to him in private and in strict confidence. This can be very helpful to make the necessary arrangements at work to keep contact to the minimum and keep an eye on your W. She is very weak and vulnerable right now, she isn't strong enough at this point to behave appropriately & impersonal during her interactions with OM at work and that's why she needs this help to keep her away from the OM to the maximum.

Stay strong Dan – you’re doing good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings and prayers,
Suzet

<small>[ October 05, 2004, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi TS and Suzet,


Another quick one. I just spent an hour talking to my daughter, just keeping her company really, and I still have a zillion things to do. I quickly read your postings. I especially take great comfort when Suzet wrote -

For some time your W will see you as the ‘meanie’ who prevent her from having contact with the person she is in love with and she will resent you terribly for this. She will view you as the reason she can’t have any contact with her ‘lover’ and will probably blame you and accuse you of being uncaring, selfish & insensitive. I know this is very unfair towards you as the betrayed spouse and will be illogical & irrational bahaviour of your W, but this is all part of the process and "fog" and will pass too. Be prepared for this and know this will be normal behavior for a FWS, especailly during the beginning of withdrawal. Don’t pay too much attention to it or take it too perso

I must never lose sight of this. W has been very distant with me today and yesterday and I must not take it too PERSONALLY

Well must run. Will post tomorrow.

God Bless you both

Hi Guys,

Time for some serious talk. I discovered that OM rang W on her new cell phone when she got home from work yesterday. I learned about it this morning. I was shaking with anger and disappointment. I toyed with the idea of waiting for the weekend to confront her primarily because I wouldn't have the time. But decided to act and rang her and told her that I know that he rang. She said she really didn't want to talk about it at work, which I understand. I then rang the OM and confronted him with my information and at first denied it and asked how I knew. I said to him the issue here is not how I knew but that you rang. He then said,..." okay I will tell her that I will not talk to her at all, and that she has to sort things out with you. Because it is impossible to talk to her because she is being watched every minute...." I said just get out of her life and leave her alone. That shows how much he "cares" for W. I have the impression that he can take it or leave it, and that it is W that is pursuing the affair, a fact which I sadly know already. I am going to go to his wife after today.
I have taken a day off work so I can have the afternoon to talk to W and settle things once and for all. I still don't know if I'm doing the right thing here, but I have reached the end of my tether and it's either him or me and the kids.
Please pray for me.

Dan, I’m so sorry to hear about the recent developments – it must have been a very huge disappointment for you…

The fact that OM called your W on her cell phone yesterday shows your W contacted OM first in order to give him the new cell phone number. Dan, this is unacceptable behavior and you CAN’T tolerate this any longer! Your next step will be to expose the A and you will do the right thing by talking to OM’s W and expose the A to her first (incase she doesn’t know about the A yet).

My suggestion: Don’t wait, go to the OM’s W today and expose the A to her and tell her everything you know. Then talk to your W and tell her you don’t have any other choice now than to expose the A to the boss, her colleagues, friends, family etc. Be very firm on this and don't allow her to talk you out of this. Things have dragged on for too long already...

Good luck Dan. I’ll pray you’ll receive the courage and strength to take the necessary steps now and not postponing any longer.

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ October 06, 2004, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Dan:

You stand to lose your wife forever if you don't take the appropriate action as Suzet and I have layed out for you so many times. Your love for your wife, your words to her, your open pain, your demands, and your family values are not enough to make your wife stop her loving feelings and addiction for the OM. You must seek the help of others. There are two people you must tell immediately, the OM's wife and your boss. Both can assist in keeping them separated by structure and/or by pressure.

Dan, I am very concerned about your lack of action. These boards are full of people who have lost their spouses to the other person. Dr. Harley's plan will increase your odds of saving your marriage, but only you can implement the steps to save your marriage.

Your wife wouldn't have slept with him without having strong feelings of love for him first. The sex solitified and even help cement or bond the relationship for her even stronger. It doesn't mean the same for men and I believe her OM will walk away with pressure from his wife, even though he is strongly addicted to your wife too.

You probably have a dozen people who have influence over your wife and it is time to open the affair to the light of their world. Right now, their love is the best kept secret in England.

Dan, please reach inside of yourself and pull out the strength to take the needed and appropriate action to expose this affair before she crosses the point of no return and before you fall completely out of love for her.

God Bless You,

TooSoon

DeperateDan:

I just talked to my former wayward wife and told her about your resistance to expose your wife's affair to the light of day. I told her about the activity on the new cell phone as well. She said maybe it is time for Dan to realize he is going to lose his wife. She then said once Dan knows and accepts the fact that he is losing her completely, he will then realize he has nothing to lose by exposing her.

She further said as much as your wife loves him, you may not get her back anyway. These are not words of hope Dan but words from a woman who understands what it is like being in love with someone other than her spouse.

My fww's strong love for the OM was causing her to take the necessary steps to follow her heart by leaving her husband and children, such as, apartment and furniture shopping and tucking money away in advance and by actually putting a deposit down on the apartment.

TooSoon

Hi TS and Suzet,

Well this afternoon my W and I really had it out. I gave her the choice stay with me or leave. It was like extracting water from stone. She just wouldn't say anything. I laid it out to her. I have suffered long enough. I would no longer tolerate being treated like a doormat. If she insists on carrying on with the affair then she has to leave. I said I will tell his wife. She said he has asked for a divorce and will leave his wife soon. I said fine then go live with him then. I told her that if he really cared for her he would have dropped his wife a long time ago and set up home with her. I then told her that if she doesn't give me an answer, I will tell the kids that their Mum is having an affair. I said a lot more LB's but at the mention of exposing her affair to the kids she jumped out of bed (she was laying in bed all the time I was talking to her) and said ,"Okay it is over!" and went to the bathroom. When she came out I wanted to make sure what she meant, whether she meant our marriage is over and she was leaving or was it the affair. She said I'm ending it with him. I said how would I know that she will after being told countless times that she will. She said you want me to do it front of you? I said yes. I took the phone and dialled his number for her since she didn't have it in her cell phone. He answered and she said,"I'm calling you to tell you it's over. Bye." She then said I am going to sleep in our daughter's room.
TS, Suzet I think I am now more inclined to believe that this is the end of the A. I could still be wrong as past experience has shown. I told her that I will still monitor things and if I find that they are still in contact I will expose the A. And don't worry this time I will. I've got nothing to lose now.
I have now to Plan A as hard as I can. Please I need more of your input on how to go about it. I'm disappointed that she is sleeping in another bedroom, but I understand that right now I must be enemy number one. What now?

Dan:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would no longer tolerate being treated like a doormat. If she insists on carrying on with the affair then she has to leave. I said I will tell his wife. She said he has asked for a divorce and will leave his wife soon. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure about this statement. It is likely a lie to protect the OM from trouble with his wife. My wife lied about everything until she couldn’t escape the truths that I knew. I would call the OM’s wife today and find out what she knows or doesn’t know. Talking with her can only help you not hurt your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I said fine then go live with him then. I told her that if he really cared for her he would have dropped his wife a long time ago and set up home with her. I then told her that if she doesn't give me an answer, I will tell the kids that their Mum is having an affair. I said a lot more LB's but at the mention of exposing her affair to the kids she jumped out of bed (she was laying in bed all the time I was talking to her) and said ,"Okay it is over!" and went to the bathroom. When she came out I wanted to make sure what she meant, whether she meant our marriage is over and she was leaving or was it the affair. She said I'm ending it with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She fears exposure Dan, like they all do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I said how would I know that she will after being told countless times that she will. She said you want me to do it front of you? I said yes. I took the phone and dialled his number for her since she didn't have it in her cell phone. He answered and she said,"I'm calling you to tell you it's over. Bye." She then said I am going to sleep in our daughter's room. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife slept on the couch many nights during our crisis and once overnight with the OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> TS, Suzet I think I am now more inclined to believe that this is the end of the A. I could still be wrong as past experience has shown. I told her that I will still monitor things and if I find that they are still in contact I will expose the A. And don't worry this time I will. I've got nothing to lose now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, you remain a very good person with an idealistic attitude. It is time you become more realistic and accept what is happening to you. You keep delaying the steps it takes to end the affair. Both parties continue to lie to cover their affair and you believe them. Please understand this: You wife loves the OM and not you. The OM loves your wife and doesn’t care about you. You are the one they have continued to lie to and betray. The last time you caught them, they wanted to know how you caught them, which was a day or two ago only.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have now to Plan A as hard as I can. Please I need more of your input on how to go about it. I'm disappointed that she is sleeping in another bedroom, but I understand that right now I must be enemy number one. What now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, you are not only enemy #1, but you are going to lose your wife soon. I am almost lost for words because I don’t know why you think they have decided to quit lying to you and be straight with you. It is not because you caught them again, they are way past worrying about your feelings or knowledge of their very open and bold affair.

Suzet, please help me help Dan.

TooSoon

HI TS,

Thanks for the posting. I have told W's younger sister and she is helping me expose the A to OM's wife. She has more guts and will take no prisoners. After I told her yesterday she said she couldn't stop feeling intense hatred for the OM for playing on her sister's emotions because it is now apparent that he is not that serious about the A. TS I am now at a crucial turning point. I am feeling so empty and low. I am almost throwing in the towel. The last time I felt this bad was when I discovered the A. I have an appointment to see my MC, and I'm going to ask her if I should just file for D. Because you are so right. They don't really care and will lie to me over and over again to protect their A. And I have a feeling that after exposure they will say to themselves, well we've got nothing to lose now, we might as well get together.
I am still hoping to continue with Plan A but I tell you it will be half hearted.
Last night laying alone in my bed I again asked God to just take me, I can't cope anymore.
TS thanks once again. Sorry but I am really really low and dejected.
God Bless you.

Dan:

Now that is the best move I have heard from you in a long time. You do not have anything to lose to expose the affair to the OM's wife. Without exposure, your mariage will not survive. Exposure to the OM's wife will force the affair to be scrutinized more openly by third parties. Once the affair is in the open, both parties will be forced to pack their bags and walk from their families and live happily everafter or until the affair ends (which is usually not more than 6 months) or the exposure will bring the reality to their fantasy world causing it to tumble down.

You are at a point where you are close to filing for divorce so you absolutely don't have anything to lose to try this last option. Play this out and pray it out. Reality added to the affairs has a tendency to lift the fog for these spouses and that is what you need to get her back. It is like splashing cold water on their faces.

Please, you must remain strong for your children's sake. They need you more now than ever before. Their mother is lost and weak and she cannot lead them or be there for them, as you can. You must be their strength. Do not give up hope because hope it not gone.

God Bless you,

TooSoon

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

Dan:

Here is a letter I sent my MC on July 16, 2004. Remember, she quit her job in April so it took about three months past the NC stage to be able to write these words. We had not rescheduled a session and I owed our MC an update or an explanation where we were at, I felt. I remain hopeful for you and your marriage. All is not lost today. I have believed for a long time, that the OM is not as committed to the relationship or as much in love, as your wife.

Please read the letter. It may give you some hope for the future.

TooSoon

------------------

Carolyn ______________
Address
_____________________
_____________________

7/16/04

Dear Carolyn: (MC)

I have wanted to give you an update on the progress (Wife’s name) and I are having so I decided to send you a brief letter. To sum up our progress overall, I feel we are doing well and we are back to a much more normal way of life again. Both of us have a better awareness and understanding of our shortcomings we bring to our marriage and of the dangers of casual flirting with co-workers of the opposite sex. This knowledge helps prevent either of us from falling into the same accidental trap in the future as has happened in the past.

It proved true and it was absolutely necessary for recovery that (Wife’s name) needed to quit her job to take her away from any contact she had with the other person in her life. Prior to her quitting, we were not making real progress in recovery. After she quit, she went through a depression period which I had read would likely happen and was somewhat prepared for. (Wife’s name) left (Job Name) in April and it has taken this long for us both to feel reconnected to each other again. Her old co-workers have called her to see how she likes life outside of (Job Name) and her old boss called to see if (Wife’s name) would meet them for dinner. I was not supportive at all of the group dinner thinking the other man might show up. (Wife’s name) originally agreed to the dinner but then cancelled the dinner due to my concern. I believe (Job Name) would like her to come back to work there, but she has agreed to never go back. (Wife’s name) has settled into working at (our company name) doing all of the needed administrative part of the business. In the past, (Wife’s name) never felt part of our business but she is feeling more part of it today. If she is caught up with her work, she comes and goes as she pleases so she is not tied down to an 8 to 5 desk job. Her work is allowing us to grow, which is something I desire to do.

(Wife’s name) and I went through the most difficult times imaginable the last six months. I rank it harder and more painful than the death of my mother. I am not sure I will ever completely understand why it really happened, but we have both chosen to go forward in our marriage and in our life. We just had our 21st anniversary and we chose to have a dinner in celebration of the future of our lives together and not in memory of the past 12 months.

(Wife’s name) is completely out of the “fog” state that she was in for so many months. During that time, (Wife’s name) could not see clearly at all and she became blinded and addicted by her feelings. She has expressed her remorse to me several times for hurting our marriage, our children, and me. I know her feelings were real for the other person but she says the relationship was started accidentally and that she did not set out to fall in love with someone else. Her expressed remorse was something I needed to hear because it helps me deal with the pain caused by the affair.

I have learned to accept the things I cannot change and I found the only way to survive this sort of thing was to basically throw my pride out the window. My pride could have caused me to walk away, but walking away from my marriage would not have done anything but make life worse for everyone involved. If anything, it will teach our children to fight hard to keep their future marriages together. I do know if something like this ever happens again, I won’t have the same strength and desire to fight to save our marriage. I believe I am a better husband today and (Wife’s name) is a better wife today. We can’t undo the past but (Wife’s name) and I still love each other and we want to stay with each other till we die.

I survived this ordeal by reading and learning everything I could on affairs, as you know. I highly recommend marriagebuilders.com to anyone going through the same ordeal as we did. It gives a spouse the daily needed information on how to disrupt the affair and how to cope throughout the ordeal. The several books I read on affairs were also very helpful for me to learn and deal with the steps of the emotional roller coaster during and after the exposure of the affair. At times, it was very hard for me to be strong and to keep the faith but these tools helped me through the ordeal. The sessions we had with you were a very important part of our recovery too. (Wife’s name) and I needed to hear your words of constructive criticism and words of direction to help us with our emotions and with our recovery. I have learned that recovering from an affair is a step-by-step process for both spouses. I found the steps to be difficult and painful all along the way, but I think we may be a success story despite everything. One of the books point out that there are “No Winners” as a result of an affair, only survivors, and that is how I feel.

I don’t think we will need to see you anytime soon. Love and staying married remains a choice between two willing adults and (Wife’s name) and I have declared to each other that we both want our marriage to work. I have at least two regrets; the first is the other man walked away unblemished and unharmed. I strongly desired to ruin his career, but it would have exposed my wife at the same time. I do believe his willingness to help break up our marriage and to damage our kids is a serious inner flaw within his person. His willingness and desire to have my wife leave her family for him will create future doubts and insecurities with his future spouse after he marries. I will have to accept this as his only punishment. The other thing is I wish you could have known the real (Wife’s name) as I have in the past, the one that is back from the fog and haze. You saw her in her clouded and confused state and not as I have seen her for 20 of the 21 years we were married. She feels today that God interceded to help bring her back.

Thank you again for your role in the recovery of our marriage. Please keep up your good works with other couples in need and please pass on the marriagebuilder.com site information to other couples in our same situation. It will help them with their daily emotions and I speak from experience. (Wife’s name) and I both felt a connection of trust with you during our sessions and we thank you for your help. I may drop you a note in a few months to tell you how we are doing, if you don’t mind. As much as we needed you, I hope we never have to meet like that again.

With all Sincerity,


TooSoon

Dan,

First I want to say, I haven't been - and may God help that I never ever - experience the pain you’re currently going through as a BS… But Dan, you have someone here on this board who have almost been in the exact same situation than you and speaks from experience here, so please listen to Toosoon, follow his advice on full exposure and don't give up too soon... I’m glad you’ve taken the first steps towards exposure – it is some progress.

Although I’m a FWW who’ve also experienced in love feelings for OM, I never reached the point where I’ve even think about leaving my H…so I won’t be able to have a idea what’s exactly going on in your W’s head right now, but in spite of this, I still think there is hope for your M... Although you’re afraid that your W will end up living with the OM if you expose to everyone, I truly don’t think that will happen. The reason I’m saying this is because your W still living with you and haven’t made any attempts yet to end the M, move out or living with the OM… This shows that your W don’t really wants to leave you but don’t want to stop all contact with OM either… She wants to have both the OM and you in her life…that’s why she always promise to end the A and tell you the A is over, but then continue to contact OM. She wants to have her cake and eat it too. I just think if there is enough pressure from outside and reality added to the A, she won’t choose OM. The other reason I’m thinking this is because it's clear that OM don’t really care for your W and just playing with her feelings. So even if your W would be willing to leave you for the OM, I don’t think the OM will be prepared or even willing to do this. So Dan, I don’t understand why you’re still afraid to FULLY expose if you have nothing to lose at this point? Why do you feel ready to file for D but not to expose the A to everyone? Are you still feel like protecting your W? If not, what are you exactly afraid of? I can understand if you're afraid your W will leave you if you expose to everyone, but you are ready to file for a D anyway, so there is really nothing to lose at this point?

Dan, if you haven’t fallen completely out of love with your W yet and still wants to safe your M, then don’t file for a divorce but move to plan B in stead. Move out for a while and see what happens, but I really don’t think a D will be the right thing to do at this point. Maybe I’m just too optimistic, but as I’ve said, I still think there is a chance for this M to be safed and for your W to come to her senses, but then you must be willing to take the next necessary steps and expose her FULLY.

Prayers to you,
Suzet

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi TS and Suzet,

Saw MC today and we mapped out together what the strategies are for the future. First and foremost the MC stressed that I have to take care of myself first. I should venture into the future knowing what I want and at what cost. She made it quite plain that I have to set boundaries around which my relationship with W should revolve, and that is that the A must end. Under no circumstances should I allow myself to live under the same roof as W while she carries on with the OM. This much I have established with W and as far as things are going I do not think she has contacted OM. I know it has only been a day since she broke it off and this is just the first day of the rest of our lives.
Now to answer your question why I haven't exposed the A. Well I don't know if I told you this but the main reason she capitulated and broke it off herself was when I said if she wouldn't I would tell our kids. She jumped out of bed and said, "Okay it's over." It was the fear of exposure to our kids that pushed her to make the decision. All my previous attempts at this were met by either silence or "I'm trying but it is very hard" or "I don't know what to do." or "I don't know what to say." Monday I had to do it for her and spoke to the OM. TS made an observation that it wasn't perfect because I did it and not W. Yesterday my W made the decision herself albeit after threats of exposure but she did it on her own and made the phone call herself. I believe that this is a positive development. Baby steps but I think this is progress.
However if W falters and establishes contact again exposure comes into the picture.
I know I sound like I am negotiating on behalf of my wife, but I believe in this case I am justified. She made the decision to end it because I threatened to tell our kids.
I hope this explains my stance.
Suzet my talk of divorce was talk of a man on the low part of the roller coaster ride. Don't worry I am not seriously considering it. I am fighting to save my M and I am gearing up for the fight ahead, both mentally and physically.
I've got a weekend to look forward to, I'm picking our daughter up from University after work tomorrow to spend the weekend with us.
Thanks for your continued support and prayers. I pray for you too.
God Bless you both.

I am pleased your MC said that you must set and enforce strict boundaries with your wife. I think having your wife fearing you telling the kids is great. I must tell you, I agreed not to tell my kids too with the promise that my wife would end the affair. A week later, I found out she was looking at apartments and furniture with the OM. That meant she was continuing with her lies to me and used the kids as a tool to her own benefit. Unfortunately, my wife lied to the kids as much as to me. WS's deep in the fog "take no prisoners". Anyone around them is vulnerable to be hurt so they can get their fix.

I had to expose my wife to the kids and other relatives before she took my threat of additional exposure seriously. I found WS's negotiate their ability to secretly keep the affair going, but it is disguised as if they are not. Be prepared for another let down. Also, talk of divorce shouldn't happen until the full benefit of exposure kicks in with an absolutely no results.

You sound much better today. God Bless you and your family.

TooSoon

Dear Dan,

Thanks for your explanation! I do understand and I’m sorry if I sound insensitive or frustrated yesterday or made you feel pressurized by my questions and continuous emphasize on full exposure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You are probably right... It’s the first time your W made such a drastic attempt to end this A and probably she deserves another chance before you take things further, but you must let her understand this is her last chance! I really hope this time your W will stick to her words and not contact OM again. Although your W ended the A by telephone I think it’s still important for her to send him a NC-letter to end the A officially and to make it clear to him that she is committed to you and her M now and that he must not try to contact her again. In this way OM will receive the words from her and not only from you (the fact that he must stay out of her life and leave her alone). I’m just concerned about the fact that your W act very impulsively and out of fear and made that phone call on the spur of the moment. I just think if you request your W to send him a NC-letter as well, you will also be able to see from your W’s attitude if she meant it sincerely and if she’s really willing to stick to NC.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>talk of divorce shouldn't happen until the full benefit of exposure kicks in with an absolutely no results”.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this.

Dan, I’m glad there is progress and some light in this tunnel, and I’m glad you’ve taken some positive steps in the right direction. As you’ve said, it’s baby steps but doesn’t it take small bites to eat an elephant! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You also have the MC to guide and support you and that’s great! As she have said, right now the most important is to look after yourself and your own well-being. Keep it up and let us know how you’re doing today.

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>