I am the WW. My H keeps asking me why I did it. I know I love my H and my family and I know whatever problems we have with our marriage, there is a better to work things out than this. Steve Harley told me that during the A, I wasn't thinking the same way as I usually would. But I have a hard time to explain this theory to my H. Think back, I myself couldn't figure out what went thru my mind at that time because this is so obviously wrong. Appreciate your help with your experience to figure out how WS think (i.e. "justify ")the A during the A. Is that what folks call the "fog"? Thank you.

Im not too sure what "yu did" however if it is what I suspect.. there really will never be a good reason to make him satisfied.. He may in time learn that you did it becasue you were looking for soemthing.. but really I dont care there isnt enought justification out there..for it and for the other spouse to be ok with it and not wonder..this is normal..this is of course if what you did is what i think you did.. if not let me know..cause then I will delete the pst..
Thanks

Linda

Linda1962,

What I did is the A. I agree with you that there won't be any good reason for it, shouldn't be any. I come here to learn from folks that have gone thru the same thing what exactly is the state of the mind that makes people do what is obviously wrong. I am told by Steve Harley, the counseller, that people think differently, but how differently?

IP2L....I can't provide you any advice or assistance as I am the recepient of the results of a WW and an A. I can tell you that with all of my reading on this website, there are some FWW's who have provided insight and support to BS's, WW's and FWW's.

I've found that weekends are slower but keep posting and I'm quite sure one of the "experienced ones" may be able to provide some assistance. Is your H able to jump on this website as well? Probably a better question, does H want to jump on this website? There is alot of clarity intertwined with pain around here.

Not a big help I know. Keep posting and I'm sure others will jump in. You may also realize that the pain caused by A's (for both the BS and WS) could result in some 2X4's being tossed your way. Since it appears you may be a FWW, keep trying and be prepared to answer some hard questions - questions that may find real answers or at least some directions for clarity and resolution.

Good Luck.....LS

ok I have not yet had a chance to get any of the books here..so I am a bit lost tot he whole initials thing. So the WW, WH, BS, A plan and B plan and the A and the this..I know what Ow is asn OM is..
sorry..
SO please point me to those if they are on the website so I cna be clued into things..would really appreciate it...

And If I made a mistake please forgive me here.
Linda..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by IP2L:
<strong> I am the WW. My H keeps asking me why I did it. I know I love my H and my family and I know whatever problems we have with our marriage, there is a better to work things out than this. Steve Harley told me that during the A, I wasn't thinking the same way as I usually would. But I have a hard time to explain this theory to my H. Think back, I myself couldn't figure out what went thru my mind at that time because this is so obviously wrong. Appreciate your help with your experience to figure out how WS think (i.e. "justify ")the A during the A. Is that what folks call the "fog"? Thank you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thinking goes along this line sometimes....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This OM sure makes me feel good. It's fun talking to him.

It won't hurt just some harmless flirting.

My husband doesn't need to know about this, he'd never understand.

MY OM really understand me and helps me.

MY OM makes me a better wife because I do feel happier.

Man oh man .... MY OM sure is a lot more fun to be around than my husband right now.

My H doesn't make me feel "good about myself" the way OM does.

My H "never" made me feel this good about myself.

I deserve to be happy.

I "deserve MY TURN".

I can't pass up this "one chance to be happy".

Why can't I be married and have my other "special friendship"?

I have more feelings for MY OM than I EVER had for anyone in my life!

My H is annoying me. This marriage is a sham.

We got married for the "wrong reasons".

I wish I were not married so I could "be with" MY OM.

I am "in love with" MY OM ... I love my H too, but not in the way a wife should.

If I only had my freedom!

MY OM and I were "meant for each other". We are "soulmates".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is sort of the standard script.

It really begins to be a self-inflicted deception when the WW begins to refer to OM as MY OM ..... like taking ownership.

Does this help?

Pep

Dear IP2L,

R = Relationship
A = Affair
OM = other man (involved in the A)
OW = other woman (involved in the A)
OP = other party/person
IMHO = in my humble/honest opinion
WH = wayward Husband
WW = wayward Wife
Plan A and Plan B you'll find explained on the MB site (use the search item).
BS = betrayed spouse
WS = wayward spouse
BW = betrayed wife
BH = betrayed husband

It's confusing at first but actually it's easier to type <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I talked to OW (who was my best friend) and she was also puzzled as to why she had the A. And why the emotions involved were so strong and why the sex was so great etc. etc.

One reason seems to be that the fear of being found out, the kick of doing something you know is wrong, makes the adrenaline flow and increases the experience. Like base jumping I guess. The danger produces a very strong reaction in your body. OP has little to do with it - unless he or she is really lousy in bed, the sex will be "amazing". Try thinking about sex with your H in the same way. That no-one can know that you're getting together with him for that. That you have to go somewhere secret for it, that it might take some planning and lying, that you'll go there together for the sole purpose and with nothing else to do than have sex??! Add to this the fact that you'll have to wait some time before you can actually get together... That you'll know it's going to happen.. That's a foreplay of weeks and weeks that will make you explode. Now think about your H in this way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Most of us never learned how to express our needs. When we are children, we are supposed to "behave". So when we feel a need when we are grown up, we don't know how to express it, since we never learned how to, not even to our partner in M. Many WS start out by feeling neglected. Not enough attention as our H or W works too much, spends too much time taking care of the children, or because they have their own problems. Not enough sex is another reason. Sometimes a WS goes for years with this need.
Then someone comes along that fills this need. A man tells a woman she looks good and smiles. A woman listens to a man and smiles and is interested in what he is saying... and that might be enough to get things started.

We know of one way to get our needs met: we use sex. Sex appeal, if you wish. That's something we did learn easily as our bodies are programmed for it.

Expressing our needs is something we were never programmed to do, not by our bodies and not by our upbringing. Actually it seems most people thinks there are only two choices: you grit your teeth and go through life not getting your needs met, or you go look for that elsewhere. The third possibility, expressing your needs in a gentle way and trying to find a compromise that is satisfactory for all, scares most people or they just think it wouldn't work, no matter how hard they tried.

Some WS say "But I did ask. Numerous times. I asked for more sex, for more attention. He/she just didn't respond. So I had to look for it elsewhere."
Well.. our partner didn't learn about expressing his or her needs either. So such talks are not very productive and will only make the other person feel like he/she isn't OK in your eyes. It's not easy to convey a need in a non-blaming way that will make the other person think about possibilities to change and to make it better. We're mostly so focussed on our own frustrated needs that we forget that the other person might also have needs that are unmet. And when we are really frustrated, we frankly don't even care about the needs of our partner. A true recipe for disaster <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

So why why why the A? For example:
- you had a need (look in the Emotional Needs section) that you desperately need to be filled
- you didn't know how to express this need towards your H (I suppose) or you thought it wouldn't help if you did
- when another man filled this need you found it very hard to resist, in fact you felt it was ok because he was nice and friendly towards you
- in fact you probably used sex to keep this man filling your need, even if sex wasn't your primary unfulfilled need - most women don't think highly enough of themselves and suppose they have to "reward" men with sex to get attention etc. As this is also physically pleasing for the woman herself it's a trap we easily fall into, being in a A or in a R.
- you fooled yourself into thinking that you wouldn't hurt your H if you just didn't tell him.

Please read up on things on this site. You'll find them very helpful.

Your H will need time to trust you again. He would like to know "why" but there will never be a good answer, not one that will instantly make things better or the way they were.

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

It is generally no one's fault when cheating occurs. It is the unfortunate result of a poor dynamic in your relationship. Either your partner gave you too much slack so you thought you could get away with it, or you have been abused by your partner on a constant basis so you had to seek fulfillment elsewhere. Perhaps you two simply don't take your relationship as seriously as you should. Perhaps you have both fallen out of love, and this is the breaking point.

Regardless of the reason, infidelity is a very good reason to almost immediately become more Aware of your relationship, and your own personality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by eric. n:
It is generally no one's fault when cheating occurs.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Weeeeeeeellllllllllllllll

It certainly is someone's RESPONSIBILITY to maintain their personal integrity!

The words "fault" and "blame" get all confused with "responsibility" when discussing the causality of affair-choices.

Choosing to have an affair is always a very bad idea, and the responsibility of that personal choice lies squarely in the conscience of the chooser.

Pep

Not to thread jack...but...

fault - imperfection or weakness of character
responsibility - moral, legal, or mental accountability
blame - to hold responsible

Let there be no mistake. In an affair there is indeed "fault", "responsibility", and "blame". All three lie squarely at the feet of the WS! No candy coating here...an adulterer shows weakness of character, needs to assume moral accountability for their actions, and needs to be held responsible for violating the sanctity of (at least) their marriage (possibly two marriages).

Ok IPSL...

you ask..."how WS think (i.e. "justify ")the A during the A' Being a BS myself, I can only relay to you the "fog-babble" tossed at me during WW's affair. I was entitled! I deserved it! I did it for me! Do we detect a trend here... I, I, I . Few will dispute that affairs are selfish actions taken for selfish reasons. Selfishness rarely requires rational or logical justification!

IP2L,

Perhaps a slight change in focus might help. Why do you think your H wants to know "why?" Permit me to offer you some reasons.

1. He fears it will happen again, but wants to know if it is possible for him to do something to prevent that.

2. He wants to understand how he failed you.

3. He wants to know if OM is a better man than he and if so is there something he can do.

4. He fears he is not "man" enough for you and that you are unhappy with him.

5. He fears he does not know you, but seeks to know so that he can better understand his role in your choices.

6. He fears he failed, but he doesn't really know how he failed.

I could go on, but the short answer is that he "fears" he is not good enough and that he coulda, woulda, shoulda, done something different.

So he needs to know your thinking, your thoughts then and now. He wants to know "HOW" you could have made such a decision and hurt him so.

My recommendation is to talk to him in earnest about these and other issues he may have. Start by asking him how he felt and how he feels and then start to address them from YOUR perspective and solicit feedback from him about HIS perspective. I think gradually you two will get to the WHY of it.

My thinking is that the WHY will be so simple and self evident that you two will pass over it, but perhaps not. Nevertheless, talking to him is really the process he needs to go through with you, and the why will take its proper place.

By the way, I vote with Ron, the answer will be selfishness. It is not a unique answer.

So keep posting and talking and consider talking to your H about all of this. It will help both of you.

God Bless,

JL

IP2L - please consider recommending to your H that he read on this site and this forum. Get him a copy of Surviving An Affair. Based on the spooky similarities between affairs, I'd be surprised if he doesn't find all he needs to know about affairs in general in these resources.

After that, getting to the root of your specific circumstances will require both of your efforts.

You are WAY ahead of the game if you're counseling with Steve. You could benefit many on this forum if you keep posting and describe your struggle - both your successes and your setbacks.

I sincerely wish you well.

Thank you all for your help. All you posting have helped me thinking more clearly, although I still can't put my finger on exactly why. I love my H, and I know he is the only man I have ever loved in my whole life. For years, I feel I am the only one that "gives" and I am not capble of giving anymore. Meanwhile, my job at the time was extremely stressful. May be the A got me out of the reality and provided some relief. When I tried to explain to my H, everything I can think of, he thinks I am just looking for execuses. I guess he is right, no reason is good enough for an A.

I wish my H would participate the marriage conselling with me. For years I have begged him, but he refused. Still sounded like blaming him and I am not. Sometimes, I just wonder if that would have made a difference.

IP2L,

Now you see the reason for my comments to you. The Why will be addressed but start by talking to him about HIS issues. Gradually, he will be able to distinguish reasons from excuses and blaming, but he needs to heal to do this. You are the one to help him heal so start talking to him.

God Bless,

JL