To all of you FWS's...

Have you had a hard time forgiving yourself?

I know that God forgives me (I'm broken before HIM), but how do you go about forgiving yourself? I just wondered if anyone else struggled with this. I am so hard on myself.

2scared

I still haven't forgiven myself for the pain I caused my now WH when we were dating and I cheated on him. He supposedly forgave me and that helped a lot.

Once I completely rededicated myself to my S, working through my issues, bettering myself and commited myself to becoming the type of H I think GOD would approve of, and one that I could admire..it's like these shoulders of mine became lighter and lighter. I have forgiven myself, but I will never forget myself. I know how I lost my convictions, and I've vowed to never repeat those actions, no rationalizing, no distractions. Everything I need is in my and if it's not me and my W have to put it there...or I'll D...no ifs ands or buts..

Okay I ran overboard, but for me it was doing everything I could possible to be a better H and father. Not just lipservice, but it was my positive actions that lessened my guilt...OH yess and the great people here who convinced me that I'm not the person I used to be, but the person I am right now, and that's what matters.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi, 2scared,

The day my A ended, but before d-day, I understood that I would have to pay earthly consequences for my sin, and that it would be awful. I also realized that my H could divorce me, but that I could not divorce myself!

Therefore, my choices were either to hate myself forever, kill myself, or forgive myself and deal with whatever happened. I decided right away that I would not kill myself - that I didn't have to die for my sin, because Jesus already had.

(Footnote: I understood that some people do die from choices they make regarding sex, and that was a possible earthly consequence of what I had done. In order not to go insane, I gave my body to God, and knew that my only option was to trust that He would take care of me no matter what I faced. Thankfully, all my std tests came back negative.)

My beautiful sister said to me (when I told her about my A), "You know you did wrong, just don't do it anymore." Of course, she was echoing Jesus' words to the woman caught in adultery that the village wanted to stone, "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more."

Here's some food for thought. One of my pastors recently said that since God forgives us, if we don't forgive ourselves, then we are saying our standards are higher than God's standards. She asked how we could be so presumptuous as to believe we can set standards that are higher than God's. That's a good question, and it makes sense that we should forgive ourselves if God forgives us, but as a FWW, I agree with you that it is very hard to do.

Forgiving myself turns out to be a lot like forgiving anyone else. Sometimes it takes time. Sometimes I feel free, and sometimes it all comes crashing back on my head and I feel miserable again.

All I know to do is to remember that God forgives me and that the only way I can function normally, or have any peace at all, is to continue to work on forgiving myself. It's the old, "pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again" routine.

I hope this has helped you a little. I just want to say hang in there.

God bless,

Rose

<small>[ September 25, 2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Rose55:
<strong>

Here's some food for thought. One of my pastors recently said that since God forgives us, if we don't forgive ourselves, then we are saying our standards are higher than God's standards. She asked how we could be so presumptuous as to believe we can set standards that are higher than God's. That's a good question, and it makes sense that we should forgive ourselves if God forgives us, but as a FWW, I agree with you that it is very hard to do.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Rose!!!
I think it was a 2x4 delivered by Pep...
she told me that who am I that I'm above forgiving myself? Me not forgiving myself was a symptom of PRIDE. I was holding myself above others in some way, like I saw myself at a higher standard than anyone else. If you aren't worthy of forgiveness, NO ONE ELSE IS...and I'm worthy of it, everyone is worthy of it. Acknowledging your human frailties, learn from your mistakes, but you can't stay there judging yourself based on the past. A remorseful person is an informed person, you know what you did was inappropriate/painful/hurtful, unconscienable, you would take it back, but you cannot..so instead you vow not to re-enact those actions. God bless you for being remorseful, I think that's the first step towards your REAL MOMENT OF CLARITY, my real moment of clarity led me to the bible, I feel better than I've felt even PRE-A and my A ended 5 years ago!

I read what FM just wrote about his moment of clarity leading him to the Bible, and it reminded me of another way I have begun to be able to heal and forgive myself. Immediately after d-day, my H and I hooked up with a terrific church and have been able to surround ourselves with loving, forgiving, supportive Christian friends. Many of them are excellent examples and advisors. We are truly blessed!

Rose

FM and Rose,

Thank you.. I am a very spiritual, christian man. If I didn't have my faith in God I would have been crushed. That's part of my guilt. As a great father and the spiritual head of my house I fell into sin. That hypocracy is thrown in my face daily. I not only fell into sin, but I fell from a very high pedistal. As a result, I hate my sin and the man I became. Did you hear me? Became. Because NOW I'm different.

Like most FWS's (you can all shout "amen"), I NEVER want to go through this again! NEVER EVER!

The problem... I feel so bad about all the pain. I think I feel so unworthy of forgivness. It's hard to forgive yourself when your family hasn't forgiven you.

I understand that God forgave me and I need to forgive myself...It's just so hard.

2scared

I am so disgusted in myself that I don't feel that I will ever forgive myself. I didn't have a PA, but what I did was sneak behind my wifes back and was talking to OW for about 3 weeks and went to her place once. It was all about me getting my ego stroked. I broke the trust my wife had in me and now she will never trust me again. We are headed for a divorce. I don't want one, she does. We went through a lot in our 10 year marriage but worked through it all. But this just opened up to many old wounds that she can't recover from. Now I am faced with losing everything. My family and everything I ever worked for. It will never be the same for my kids as far as having a complete family living together. The pain that I have caused everyone is just to great and I don't think I can ever get over it.

My WH has told me many times that he can't forgive himself. I tell him that I have forgiven him, even tho he didn't ask it of me.

That is the only way I can deal with it.

I also told WH that real forgiveness begins with a contrite heart. Real forgiveness only comes from God. Start there, then eventually you will be able to forgive yourself.

I still wonder if WH would be feeling so bad about all of this if he had not gotten caught.

Or was he feeling guilty all along?

K72172

2scared and firemob1 -

Have you read His Needs, Her Needs? Will your S's read it and go to MC? Do you still live at home? Has anyone filed for D? Around here, the phrase, "It ain't over till it's over" is declared a lot.

Sometimes the WS has to be the one to plan A like crazy - be on your best behavior, show by your actions that you have changed and want to work on the M. Gaining back love and trust can take a long time, and does eventually take a lot of effort from both partners, but sometimes one S has to be the first to start the work.

After 2 years, my H still goes through spells where he's not sure he can forgive me, or stand to look at me every day and remember what I did. Those are sad and scary times, and I do know what it feels like to try to forgive yourself when it seems like maybe no one else will.

The bottom line is that we have to believe that God will be with us no matter what happens. Lean on Him, and seek his kingdom first. Pray for Him to help you change and for direction as to what you need to do now.

God bless,

Rose

I wish you could talk to my H. He's been over his guilt since all std's came back neg. He believes he's been punished enough gone through all the guilt and remorse in record time.
I however need more time..... but it's good to know that if I ever feel the need to scratch an itch he'll forgive me quickly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sorry just upset with the way things are going here <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I just posted what the message at church was about today. Very very good one about forgiveness. Read the post "Good signs".

As far as forgiving yourself...I can completely identify with you. I know that God forgives us when we ask him to, but it is still difficult. It's even more difficult when your H or W is not willing to forgive you.

Maybe these will provide some guidance/comfort:
Hebrews 12:11
"Now not chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but paiful; nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."
In other words, God doesn't chasten those who aren't HIS...so we should be thankful that he does it, for it is a reminder that we belong to Him.

James 4:10
"Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he will lift you up."

Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Have faith that Christ will work in your heart, ask Him to help you forgive yourself. Pray...pray...pray.

Rae-

Pray, Pray, Pray. Oh yes... that IS my comfort. I am sure that I am the lost sheep. If HE hadn't come, picked me up and carried me to safety then I KNOW I would have been wolf-food.

Thank you for the encouragement. Our message today was on the woman who wiped Jesus' feet with her tears and hair. Wow... I wept through the entire service.

BTW- I'll take all the prayers you want to offer for me too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

2scared

My goodness, I am new to this thing, so I don't know all of the abbreviations and stuff.

I replied to your reply to me on my post...didn't know if you'd get it necessarily. So decided to reply to your post directly.

Anyway...
Are you using "reverse" plan A? If so, for how long?

Sometimes I think I'm being impatient and constantly have to remind myself, "All in God's time." Doesn't make it any easier, though, does it?

Thank you for praying for me...and I will pray for you also.

Just a thought...
If you can't forgive yourself...and get back on a path of wholeness, of the joys of being who you were...and still are...the person that your spouse and children love and forgive...in many ways the OW/OM is still "winning" and staying a part of your lives. Don't give them that kind of power! Your affair has taken up enough of your lives already. Move on...to create a better you, who loves and is committed to your family. Holding the energy of guilt and shame, takes away from energy that can be better used to heal your situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2scared:
<strong>
As a result, I hate my sin and the man I became. Did you hear me? Became. Because NOW I'm different.

Like most FWS's (you can all shout "amen"), I NEVER want to go through this again! NEVER EVER!

2scared </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Part of what you're struggling with is not only feeling terrible about the hurt and pain you caused- but it is also having to come to grips with the fact that you were capable of such behavior. Seeing yourself get bumped off that pedastal is hard.

Self-forgiveness will come as you realize that you ARE only human and that humans err- and sin.
This is not an *excuse* for adultery- it is just a realization that we AS humans fail sometimes. Guilt and remorse ARE necessary emotions for us WS to have- we must come to God (and our families) with a contrite heart and the firm resolve that we will never ever sin in that way again. But hanging on to that self-loathing and not being able to forive ourselves - as said above- when God has forgiven us does nobody any good.

Through this failure, you have learned. As you said- you NEVER WANT to go through this again. You have learned what is important to you-your family and God and will not be led down this road again.

You can now take this opportunity to make your marriage better then it has ever been and to show your wife the care, compassion and love that she deserves.

Sending prayers your way. This is a hard path to walk...

Ultimately, though- you know that saying "What doesn't kill you will make you stronger?" I firmly believe that it is true.

sad-

You're right... It hurts to fall from the pedistal. I was way up there too. Again, knowing not just that I sinned, but I planned, plotted, sinned, lied, deceived and acted like it wasn't my fault. The fact that I was capible of all that is crushing. The healthy part is that I have been looking back to see what boundries came down that I gave myself permission to do all this. I found a spiritual conference dealing with this specific issue and I plan on attending. I am being proactive in becoming healthy. Whether I stay married or move on I want to be healthy so that those boundries stay up.

God's grace will cover my sins, but I need to put on the FULL armour of God.

2scared

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2scared:
<strong> sad-

You're right... It hurts to fall from the pedistal. I was way up there too. Again, knowing not just that I sinned, but I planned, plotted, sinned, lied, deceived and acted like it wasn't my fault. The fact that I was capible of all that is crushing. The healthy part is that I have been looking back to see what boundries came down that I gave myself permission to do all this. I found a spiritual conference dealing with this specific issue and I plan on attending. I am being proactive in becoming healthy. Whether I stay married or move on I want to be healthy so that those boundries stay up.

God's grace will cover my sins, but I need to put on the FULL armour of God.

2scared </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What a great plan!

Whether or not your wife has forgiven you yet, she surely must be noticing your efforts to improve yourself and your relationship. This can do nothing but good for both of you! Please let me know how your conference goes. I wish for my own self that I could talk my H into attending a conference/workshop with me to learn how to effectively communicate and work together to build our marriage. As I have more chance of being beamed up by little green men then getting him to go to something like that, I may try to find classes or something along those lines for myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I didn't have my faith in God I would have been crushed. That's part of my guilt. As a great father and the spiritual head of my house I fell into sin. That hypocracy is thrown in my face daily. I not only fell into sin, but I fell from a very high pedistal. As a result, I hate my sin and the man I became. Did you hear me? Became. Because NOW I'm different.

Like most FWS's (you can all shout "amen"), I NEVER want to go through this again! NEVER EVER!

The problem... I feel so bad about all the pain. I think I feel so unworthy of forgivness. It's hard to forgive yourself when your family hasn't forgiven you.

I understand that God forgave me and I need to forgive myself...It's just so hard. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2scared - this subject comes up from time to time because it is a real issue that we all have to face about ourselves at some point.

"I not only fell into sin, but I fell from a very high pedistal. " This is part of the "problem" in that you were never supposed to be on any pedestal. That "throne" is reserved for Christ. Remember, Jesus EARNED that pedestal, that throne. People "given" things often do not appreciate them the same way that someone would who had earned it. Call it "liberal vs. conservative" differences, if you will. The true "cost" of something, and the value of that thing, is best appreciated when one has worked to earn it. One word of reminder...."for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Welcome to the club of the "dethroned."

Now, on to more practical matters. You feel what you feel. There is no magic wand to wave, but there are directions, there are maps, there are ways to get from "where you are to where you would like to be."

So let me give you a link to a thread on forgiveness that I began about 1.5 years ago. While it's a few pages long, take the time to read it, especially the parts about "forgiving yourself."

As with all parts of the process of Sanctification, God teaches us in order to bring us further along the line of becoming more "Christ-like" in our walk. It takes our entire lifetimes and we simply need to listen and to obey God. You were "guilty" for adultery...so was David. You were "guilty" of murder (your marriage)....so was Paul as the chief persecutor of the church when he was Saul. You are wracked with doubts....as was Thomas. God understands and God will lead you and teach you....get ready, you are about to grow in ways Christlike that you never imagined....

Forgive? Trust? Really? Has anything been learned in the past year?

God bless.

<small>[ September 28, 2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

Foreverhers-


Thank you for the encouragement. I will read the thread. I AM already growing. I can feel it, sense it and I still recognize God's tender hand touching my innermost being. I am ready to grow in ways I have yet to conceive. God is a forgiving and awsome God.

2scared