Back at ya, Kimmy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You too SLH

FF, I didn't realize.

Both of you - I can imagine somebody's error having such an effect on a life you care so much about. More even than your own, in many ways.

{{{FF}}}
{{{weaver}}}

GC

If we took the word betrayal out of the equation how would it look? Would it feel differentally? I am taking the word betrayal out of my vocabulary.

Betrayal is a very ugly word, it hurts me and keeps me stuck in a place I don't want to be. It portrays someone I love/loved as a monster, and that hurts me too.

It hurts me to hold onto anger/blame, and it is in direct conflict with what I profess to feel for someone, love.

And it makes it very unlikely that I will ever have another chance with him, or be able to love another in the way that I want to.

If I choose not to forgive him, unless he becomes repentent, then I choose to be stuck in a very bad place, a place of anger/blame.

Love can not live in that place. It is that simple. It is all about acceptance and forgiveness. Accepting that we are all imperfect, and loving each other regardless.

To love someone is to forgive them. To love ourselves is also to forgive.

Would I wait until he comes back on his knees and begs my forgiveness before I offered it? That would be a self imposed prison that would slowly kill me.

For me, I have radically changed my perception. And every day I grow happier and stronger. I believe that I am becomming a person worthy of love, both of giving and receiving.

I think I died somehow when I got those messages on my machine, but now my happiness is becomming real, and nothing will ever jeoperdise that again. Because all along it was me who controlled my own happiness, I did him and me a great diservice when I placed that burden at his feet.

I still have moments those, and in those dark, angry, blaming moments I just feel so bad that I am learning to reduce them. And then there are the moments of self-pity and fear that I will never know that kind of love again. Yuck! I get rid of those feelings as fast as I can too.

If sparrow and tm could feel the pain they have left in their wake, it would probably engulf and destroy them. They are not strong enough to do that Gray. But you and car4love are strong enough to handle this, and even thrive someday. I wouldn't wish what they have done on anyone, it is simply to awful a burden to carry. And if they don't somehow find a way to atone then it will destroy them in other ways. Bad ways that come from within.

Don't you see that Gray?

As far as Dan goes, I know that he was not able to break up with me in a decent way. He could not face me, he was afraid of either my tears or my anger. He made a decision to move on in another direction without me. His life is guided by fear, disguised as other things but fear none the less.

So is sparrows.

2Long, I got the pics. Your DD is so lovely and so IN LOVE! I just love seeing the looks on their faces. What a beautiful home you have. Thanks for sharing.

All we wanted was our son to get the care he needs and deserves

FF, Hugs to you. I hope discussing this hasn't brought you down today, or depressed you. I know how vulnerable the soul can be. I'm so sorry this happened, but at the same time, I know what a blessing W has become for you.

You're an amazing woman, FF.

slh

NO SLH, did not bring me down. I love and accept my son as he is, he is a blessing to me and he forced me to grow up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> OTOH, I do grieve every day of my life for the child I lost though I dearly love the child I gained, KWIM?

Isn't it sad how much pain there is around these campfires? The light of the fire itself seems so small sometimes, when all the pain comes up close to it, like the darkness itself is stealing away the light.

And yet, our pain eventually brings us closer to the light. I don't understand that. Maybe I will someday.

Faithful, my sister suffered severe brain damage while she was still in utero due to a viral flu that my mom had (it was a flu that swept the country during the Vietnam war, brought back by guys who were coming back to the States). I've always wondered what she would be like if it weren't for that event. I value the sister I have greatly -- I would never have been able to find my shoes and book back without her -- and I still miss the sister that I would have been able to call up and tell my troubles to and have her talk me through what to do about it. So yeah, I have some idea what you mean. Having actually met the child you lost, rather than just knowing he would have been there, must make it different. But also still similar.



GC, all that hurt and anger is real. It's true. It's absolutely worth feeling in great detail.

And it's worth looking under it.

You were terribly badly hurt because someone -- sparrow -- who you loved very much suddenly changed their opinion of you, and in a negative direction.

In stark terms, your self-worth was based, in part, on what sparrow thought of you. So when she changed her view completely, it sent you into a very confused and chaotic state. Upside-down and in terrible pain.

And you're still angry with her for it. Rightly so!

To separate from that on its most basic level, you're going to have to re-value yourself. Learn, on a primal level, that her evaluation of you is not where your worth as a human comes from. Learn, on a primal level, that no matter what sparrow does, she cannot betray -YOU- again. Because your worth as a person is not under her control.

And to do that, you're going to have to remember that you DO have tremendous worth, that you're lovable, that you are accepted, that you are respected, that you're competent.

That's god-awful hard work. But hey, did you have anything better to do with the rest of your life?

The Dalai Lama says to start with helping other people, even in small ways. Because that help reminds you that you can make a difference in this world. And that you can make a difference, too.

Yes J, that is it in a nutshell. I grieve every single day for him but love him every day.

Beautiful, thoughtful, insightful words to GC.

And I can't wait for the day when we all gather in joy, and the pain has long been forgotten.

From the songs of David (I think) -

"And those who sow in tears, shall reap the glad song of joy"

Weaver, J, I've tried several times to write replies to both your recent postings. They keep getting too long and disconnected.

Weaver, I don't know what the forgiveness you write about looks like, not yet. I also disagree that consuming anger and resentment are the only alternative to it.

I'm gonna feel however I'm going to feel for a while longer. I'm pretty sure you can't cheat your way out of grief by forgiving the people who have injured you. And when I forgive the sparrow, it's gonna be for real and for permanent.

J, you hit the nail. I saw myself as whatever was reflected in sparrow's eyes, so when she told me I was unlovable and that I deserved her rejection, I believed it, intuitively, even though I knew better.

Learning, on a primal level, that who we are has nothing to do with how other people feel about us, is a hard trick. How do you love someone without giving them some of that power?

Hope all campers are having a happy Friday.

GC

Yep, can't go around it, have to go through it.

And in our own ways.

Have a good weekend too Gray. I'll be trying out that liquid sandpaper on my porch, if it cools down that is.

Told the idjits, now the fireflies...9 years ago right now I was happily in labor....

My daughter is glowing today. She has decided NOT to change out of her pjs and is watching Shrek 2. We have a date later to cornrow the front of her hair so that it frames her face, and I'll give her a pedi.

Nothing says girly-girl than a pj/day of beauty day, right?

That, and maybeeee............. a wedding dress.

SS

Shut up, SS. At the expense of a DJ, shut up.

She's still a baybeeeee!

Happy birthday to Kimmy, jr. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I thought you were off reading HP instead of posting.

I didn't mean HER !!!
but it does say that, and you know it.

One of my daughters anniversery was Wed. Married three years, and it brought back memories for me.

I'm just saying.................

SS

It is release tomorrow, Faith. ROTFLMAO!

Sorry, SS.

My feelers are very close to the surface lately.

Hi faithful.
I'm still thinking about some things you have said the past week or so.

Here I always thought of you as this self assured peson that had things figured out.

Still do in lots of ways.

I can't believe you have doubts like the rest of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How about today? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

SS

It's OK Kimmy, the red finger marks will go away by the time I go home from work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would never purposely say things to hurt. If it ever comes acoss that way, I am sorry. I hope you don't mind my teasing from time to time.

SS