SML - Did I read right? Is OW taunting you with the messages he's sent her? Did you tell your H about this? Even in his fog, I don't think he'd be too impressed with her being so vicious to you.

I'm not sure, but I think I remember you saying before, that you had not yet exposed the A to OW's father. If I'm right, I really think you should do that ASAP. Also tell him about her nasty games with these e-mails. It doesn't seem that she's had any consequences to deal with as yet. Perhaps it's time you used exposure to weaken the fantasy.

I really hope you have the strength for plan B, before the whole thing breaks you. I know you are a very strong lady, but everyone has their limits. You really need to do what is best for you and your unborn baby right now and that has to be to remove yourself from this continuous pain.

She knew I would see it on her instant messanger away message. Yes it's my fault for looking but does that make it right for her to do that... NO... I told my husband about it and he took up for her. Saying I cause my own pain by looking. I told him you said I am spiteful because I mentioned calling her father but what is she. He didn't answer.

The OW told me not to bother with her father because it's old news to him. That he does not agree with it but understands his daughter cannot control how she feels. But I don't believe she told him the full truth. I don't care anymore.

Yes I wish I felt more stronger right now to do plan B. Everytime I set out strong and say I am not going to call him or email him I end up doing it. I am just so sad that he continues to hurt me and doesn't even seem to care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> guess my self esteem is so low right now. I keep wondering what is so great about this OW. What made her so much more important than the kids and me. She is 20, in college and has no kids what can she offer him other than a fantasy. I wonder what is wrong with her. Why she would settle for a man that is ten hours away, has been married twice, has 2 kids, another on the way and will always have major repsonsibility and obligations. I think she is using him because she has nobody else at the moment. Also I feel like she likes the challenge. Am I that unloveable? What makes a person treat the person they loved so badly when they didn't do anything wrong but love them? People say it's fog but he seems to really believe what he is saying.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't ever think she is better then you. Here is someone who thinks so little of herself that she would settle for a man who isn't really available. She is willing to hurt three innocent children, for what? A man she can't possibly have any real future with? Can you imagine? How does she look at herself in the mirror? This fantasy is going to crash and burn and I would venture to guess sooner rather then later, especially if you go to Plan B. And don't believe her when she says her father knows everything, I would bet money he doesn't know you are pregnant.

I have always had very low self confidence. Around middle school I started to gain weight. I have been a little heavy all my life. I was teased in school and hated it. When I graduated I started working on myself. I lost some weight after I graduated and started dating.

When I met my husband and started dating it seemed like I met someone who was like no other guy I have been with. He pushed me to keep reaching for my goals. He saw me for me. Don't get me wrong everyone tells me I am a beautiful person but I have always been down on myself for not being like most people. I felt so comfortable with him. Before I got pregnant I lost another 20lbs. I have about 40 to go but I know after the baby is born I will make it happen. I have only gained about 7 pounds with this baby which is really good.

My husband told me one night that me being overweight bothered him more than he let on. That he is shallow like all the other guys. That hurt me so bad. The OW is thinner but she is nothing to brag about in my eyes. In the back of my mind while dating and marriage I always thought as soon as he met someone who had more in common with him and he felt looked better then he would leave me. And he did. She may not be better but I guess with everything I have been through all my life that is how it makes me feel.

I also don't know how someone like that can continue to wakeup and be ok with what they are doing. She may tell him she doesn't mind that he has kids but she never even has met them. She can say lots of things because what they have is not really reality yet. It's all mainly based on phone and email and a few meetings.

He called and talked to the kids for about five minutes. I guess he did he fatherly duties for tonight. My three year old begged him to come home. Told him he missed him and kept saying mommy is your wife. It broke my heart. Then before going to bed he was so sad. Kept telling me his dad was coming home tonight. I told him not tonight and then he cried. This hurts me the most. Seeing my kids in pain.

My three year old gave him the phone and said mommy wants to talk to you. I just sat there for a few minutes then said hello. He said hmmmm oh Smallville is on .. I'm going to watch it talk to you later and hung up. Haven't heard from him since. I am sure he is probably on the phone with the homewrecker by now. I will probably take a bubble bath and go to bed soon.

Feeling very lonely tonight.

{{{{{{{{{{SadMarylandLady}}}}}}}}}}

I am so sorry you are going through this. I can tell you that you will survive, either way. I can tell you that YOU will come out of this more than you ever thought you were. I can tell you that your WH is the biggest loser in all of this, and you have it ALL.

And I can tell you that you are the farthest from being alone through all of this - you have all of us, and we know EXACTLY what you are going through. You are NOT alone.

*HUGS* and all my thoughts and prayers and love to you, Tina.

Amy

Thank you Amy. It's nice to feel that someone actually cares.

Last night I cried for a hour or so. Today I feel a lot better. My mom is coming down tonight to spend the night so maybe that will take my mind off things a bit.

Hi SML

Haven't posted in awhile, but am still following your story. You sound like you are so close to Plan B. Can your mom help you when the baby comes? Plan B is a huge relief after you get over your own urges to contact him. There are a few of us dealing with this right now. It's hard, but feels so much better than the A under your nose all of the time.

I strongly recommend that if you are not ready for complete darkness, that you try to do the 180. That would mean NOT calling him or checking his cell and emails, staying aloof when you do talk to him, stuff like that. Somebody MUST have the link somewhere...

just wanted to reiterate again that i had been naive enough to think that the OW's parents in my case (OW is 21 and still lives at home) didn't know my H was married, they did and it didn't matter. her mom told me that they have talked to her but that she's young and if my h has already made up his mind....granted again, i don't have children. but i honestly wouldn't put it past the OW's parents in SML's case that they know she's pregnant and still don't care. there are just some people like that out there. steve harley told me that the OW has a character flaw, she knows she is seeing a MM and your OW knows you have kids. SH told me that their R has a shelf life (but who knows when that is).

the OP convince themselves that they are the right person for the WS and vice versa for the WS. know matter what the situation may be w/the WS and BS, the OP tell themselves that they will not do what the BS has done to the WS to make them do this and that they'll make it, etc. that's how your OW SML can do what she's doing is because she is in her own fogland. we (BS) have all the studies, statistics, experts, GOD on our side assuring us that it will not work out between the WS and OP. now granted this may not be seen for years down the road but it's proven that only about 5% (i think this is a statistic) go on to have happy M, etc.

of course my self-esteem was totally obliterated at the beginning of this. i mean i wasn't depressed that i was over weight because i knew that i wasn't going to be that way for the rest of my life. but i let my weight come between me and my H. i was too embarrassed to be w/him and he didn't want to hurt my feelings by telling me it bothered him, etc. anyway, i had pretty much convinced myself that i had to get back down to my premarriage weight of 118 and was going to have to stay almost that in order to keep my H. well you know what, i've lost about 50lbs as a result of everything and i've had glimpses that there are guys (decent guys) that find me attractive at the weight i am right now! not at 118 which is what i felt i was going to have to be. things happen and people come down w/things all the time that make them gain weight and who's to say that wouldn't happen to me in the future and if i was w/my H would i have to worry again, that he didn't find me attractive because of something i had no control of? i'm not willing to spend the rest of my life worrying about all that kind of stuff just to keep my H.

i guess what i'm saying as time does have a way of helping you heal and process things. at one time i was thinking about all the things i was going to have to do in recovery and spent little on thinking the things my H would have to do. well now i'm thinking i just don't think he would ever do everything that was needed to make me believe i could trust him again, besides the fact that he's serving me w/D papers so that's pretty unlikely to happen anyway.

SML, get a lawyer before you go to plan B and stop talking to your H unless it's absolutely necessary. not when your kid gives you the phone to talk to daddy. you WILL start to feel better when you get your ducks in a row and will definitely feel better when your baby arrives. do not expect for your H to meet any of your needs because he can't right now. glad your mom is coming to visit, it does help to talk to someone in person, continued prayers to you, RR

Thanks for your words of support and advice. I feel at peace today. I truly believe it will work out in the end with my husband and me. But I just have to realize it's God's time not mine. I am not a patient person. But I need to be.

I realize that everytime I call my husband it's just one big fight. Because I am constantly on his case about the OW. He doesn't even seem to want to talk to me anymore. When he does it's more of a annoyed tone in his voice. I guess I can see why. If I am not going to do plan B just yet. I need to start showing him the kind of person he would want to stay with. Not the nagging wife he has been getting the last few months.

And if for some reason things don't work out then I will have no choice but to accept it and move on. I have my doctor appointment today. I am going now once a week. It's getting very close. Yes my mom will be there to help as much as I want her to. She is also planning on staying with me 2 weeks before my due date if my husband is not home. She is very sad about the whole situation. She cannot understand how someone that was so loving can just turn their back on me now.

I got a email from my husband today... And comments...

Tina,

Like you said, always darkest before the dawn and sometimes you have to go through hard times before you can even begin to understand yourself as a person. And I'm pretty sure you haven't gone through as hard a time as I'm putting you through. High School was probably a cake-walk compared to this. I'm sorry for everything. I still care about you and your well-being, no matter what happens I will always care for you ok? Don't ever forget this. Please take care of yourself and keep your chin up...I'll talk to you later.

Sadmarylady:

I am very very sad reading your posts. I feel and hurt for you. I guess I should not and try and give you advice because I know the party line around here is to PLAn A your husband and accept all of this behavior as "fog" and do everything to meet his needs. Your hurt really shouldn't matter as you have to do what is best for your marriage and that means not LB'ing your H. YOU are NOT allowed to let him know that you hurt because that alientaes him and is seen as LB. You have a 3yo son who is hurting and being severely affected by this man (your H). Is having your husband home really what you want? I mean, yeah you have him physically home but emotionally you aren't getting $hit. How much more can you take is the question I have for you? How many more times do you need to see your son cry himself top sleep becasue his Dad is not coming home? How much longer do you let him treat you like a piece of garbage, all in the name of "him being in the fog". How many more times do you cry yourslef to sleep becasuse your H is still obviosuly in an Affair. Is your marriage worth this pain? If it is, just hunker down and follow these RULES. If you are gonna use these MB principles you had better dig in for a long fight and be ready to hurt. It may save your marriage (at least on paper)as many on here claim, just be ready. It doesn't matter what I think about your situation, just know that I am praying for you. I hope that you find the peace and stregth to do what is right for YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN (born and unborn).

OK, Tina. I hope you did not feel compelled to respond to that self-serving, pompus, trying-to-ease-his-own-guilt email. Honestly, if I were you, reading that from my WH, I would be sitting there, steaming, giving his email the "BIRD!"

SCREW HIM! "Keep your chin up?" WTH? "I do care what happens to you?" WTH? TINA, you are keeping your chin up, IN SPITE OF HIM and his CRAPPY actions! YOU care what happens to YOU and YOUR FAMILY - he doesn't!!! He only cares about him! The purpose of that email was not to make you feel better, it was to make HIM feel better.

Do not give him the satisfaction. If you can't do Plan B, then just start weaning yourself off him until you can. DO NOT talk to him on the phone. If your 3 yo wants you to talk to "daddy" after he is done, tell him loudly, before you hang up, that you don't WANT to talk to his daddy! AND HANG UP!!!

Cut him off. No longer let him JUSTIFY his actions to you. When you argue with him, that is what he is doing. He gets to validate his feelings that you are not the one for him because you keep telling him he is WRONG. He already knows he is wrong. But when you tell him, it lets him JUSTIFY to himself.

DO NOT initiate contact. If he does, keep it short and sweet. If he mentions talking to OW, tell him that is his business, and you don't want to know. If he tells you he just isn't in love with you, never was (YEAH RIGHT! My H said the SAME thing!), feel free to tell him that you do love him, but don't argue with him at ALL.

Tina, you are getting to a place where you are seriously going to have to make some sort of a plan and stick to it. Or you are going to let yourself be torn apart. I know you feel at peace today. Great. Then of course WH sends you that CRAPPY email. You cannot be affected by him each day. You must sever contact, involvement. If you can't go completely dark, just don't do ANY initiating. And get creative with how you can get through your whole day/week without having to communicate with him at all. That's what I did.

Spidey

Spidey hit the nail on the head SML. That is exactly what I meant. If you do talk to him, absolutely NO talk of the A. This will make a real difference, just try it, you can do it! I know it doesn't really make sense to us, but WS's notice that you aren't bugging them about it and start to wonder why?? Being in control of yourself feels so good. I refuse to argue with Fogman, and he just sputters off by himself (pretty pathetic, but humorous at the same time!). Doesn't take long until you LIKE not arguing and are calmer. Hang in there!

SS,
I agree that email did not make me feel good at all. It just gave me less hope that he will ever change. You gave me good advice. I do need to stop contact as much as possible because it's only making things worse. I feel like he always turns everything around to blame me for what he is doing and how he is feeling. Even though he knows darn well that no reason he could ever give me gives him the right to have a affair.

He never mentions talking to the OW. Usually if I call he is already on the line with her and it beeps to let me know he is on the other line and he won't click over. It's sad that I am this close to my due date and he doesn't care that I may be calling because of that or not. She is more important to talk to I guess. I am no longer going to call him at night and I am not going to check his minutes anymore.

He says he never loved me but I know that is BS. It's just his way of justifying his actions in his own head of why he is doing what he is doing. I haven't told him lately that I love him till last night. I said even if you feel you don't love me I still love you... He said yeah yeah yeah... Lately he has been very sarcastic. So it's getting to the point where I don't even enjoy talking to him if he is going to be like that with me.

Also thank you for the idea regarding my stepson. All week I have done the earn your t.v time/video game time and it has worked wonders already. I got a note from the teacher saying he has shown great improvement. And my stepson is very proud of himself.

Well I am on the way to my doc appointment. Thanks again everyone.

Just got back from the Doctors everything looks good. Just feeling really uncomfortable lately since the baby is so high. Feels like my ribs are being broken. He said that is a good sign the baby is growing.

My husband called to talk to the boys for a few minutes. I picked up the phone. Tonight he was happy and cheerful. He confuses me so much. He never asked about my appointment. And I was actually the one who said well I got to go after a few minutes. That was a first for me. Even though I wanted to talk more. I never mentioned the affair or the OW. Only thing that really ticked me off is the fact that he still wants to go to North Carolina this weekend. This close to my due date and the fact that he hasn't saw his kids all week really shows right now he just cares about himself. He says he is not going to go see her but I know that is BS. He tried to make me feel bad for him not being able to go. I just outright told him that wasn't the greatest choice considering everything.

SML, it takes time, but you doing things you have never done before, like getting off the phone first and stuff, will confuse the HECK out of him. Right now, it is all his rules. He talks to you when he wants, to her when he wants, to his kids when he wants. Hmmmmm. What will happen when it becomes all on YOUR terms???

It might not feel right, to be doing these things. It might feel like playing games. It is actually the opposite. It is getting - NO! CHOOSING - out of HIS game.

You have a life, with a purpose, with meaning. Your WH is throwing everything out the window for momentary "feel good" from the OW. He deserves your PITY, not your time. And keep the righteous anger going. Call upon it. When you feel soft, when you feel like "giving him another chance," whatever, remember how he wants to go to see his OW while you are so pregnant it feels like your ribs are going to break. You remember! You remember that you are following YOUR vows, YOUR heart, YOUR beliefs - NObody can take that away from you.

You cannot control HIM. Only you. Choose out of his chaos.

And I am SOOOOO glad my ideas with your SS have worked out. If you need more, or want to trouble-shoot a particular problem, let me know. I'm telling you, I could write a book on motivating BOYS! AND, interestingly enough, men behave a lot like very tall boys (NO offense to any men out there - just my personal observation), in many ways. They all want love and acceptance, recognition and special attention.

Except, for you, giving him that right now doesn't give you ANY rewards. It all works against you now. BUT, when he defogs, it will turn around. The man you married is in there, but you must let him choose to come back to you. You must give him what he needs to do that - you must let him try his fantasy on for size, and decide for himself. My experience here is that once WS's do that, they find that the grass is not greener with OP, it is just different. And most want to go back "home." Especially men.

No guarantees, but stick with us, and you will be better no matter what - you will be OK no matter what he decides to do with his life.

Love you, sweetie! Glad the baby is doing great. What a miracle in all this horribleness. Oh, a baby. *sigh* I am envious, in a way. But in another, my two are MORE than enough to keep me busy. Ah, but a Baby. *Sigh* I can vaccilate back and forth all day long! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

SS how old are your boys? Thanks for the offer regarding my stepson. We seem to have lots of problems with him focusing at school and stuff the last few years. But I can see since we have been doing the reward thing it's making a difference. Just hope he keeps it up.

I think about the baby and I can't wait to hold her and meet her. But then I think about all the things that go with having a baby and I get scared. Especially the labor part. I remember my son's birth like it was yesterday and it will be 4 years in Dec. I did not have a easy labor. But I know I will be fine. And it's worth it in the end. I finally settled on the name Chloe Grace if infact it is a girl. If not it will be Tyler.

I have been trying to keep busy by cleaning out my son's room. I never knew he had so much toys and clothes. And most of them he has outgrown. So I am sorting through everything and giving it to my brother for his kids and also giving some to my church's food bank for needy families.

This Sunday my SIL is throwing me a shower so that should be fun. My mom is also going to throw me one but not till the baby is born.

I guess my husband has decided to stay home this weekend. My son asked him to come home and he told him tomorrow. He asked me to come down to his sisters for dinner tomorrow. I am not sure if I am going or not. He was totally different tonight. Joking and cheerful makes me hard to understand him sometimes. I really am trying to focus more on myself and the kids but it is hard. I am finding it easier but I still have my moments. But I am going to try to do what you said and withdraw myself from his chaos and try to do things differently.

Thanks again for all the support...
Tina

Tina, if you want to "get into his head," you need to withdraw when he asserts, be nonchalant when he shows interest. Seriously. This is a good time for you to turn the tables. DO NOT buy into it. Unfortunately, the reason he is upbeat and positive is probably because he thinks him and the OW have "moved to some new level." Ugh.

I know that hurts you to hear, but better from ol'Spidey than HIM. While in contact with HER, there is no hope of recovery. It is simple. Very simple. That is why Dr. Harley advises to go to such great lengths for NC. Think of him as a junkie, getting a few "hits" now and then. Just enough to keep him going. He is a danger to you as long as he is still talking to OW.

The last Scout camping trip that my H went to with OW, he acted like that. Luckily, I knew enough to know it was not good for me. He was very happy, and "sure," that he knew exactly what he wanted. Which at that time was OW. If he is looking forward to, or decided for sure upon, going to NC to see her, he will act differently. Just as an addict acts when they KNOW they will get their fix. They can put up with anything until that happens, right?

Hang in there, Tina. You can do this.

Spidey

Yesterday I felt at peace today I feel so down in the dumps. I'm at work but I can't focus. I just keep thinking about my life. How do you just move on even though your heart is breaking? How do you just accept the OW and sit back and watch them continue the affair?

He decided to stay home this weekend. But his sister told me she thinks he is planning on going to North Carolina next weekend. It just shows he only cares about himself and her right now. He says he is not meeting her but I am not that stupid. My SIL wants to call the OW and talk to her but I don't think that will help.

Your right SS. Holding on to the anger does help me from falling into my old patterns with him. I know I should not continue to hurt myself but I did check his cell minutes to see how much he was over and saw he called her for almost 4 hours last night. That just made me even more angry and determined to show him that I will manage with or without him.

just a couple of thoughts. sometimes when i wanted to revert to my old behaviors i just thought to myself that is exactly what i couldn't do because it would be giving them (WH/OW) ammunition to use against me.

there are some similarities and differences between our situations but it might help in some way to read my thread on my sessions w/SH. just talks about various things. maybe it will help maybe it won't but maybe next time you think about calling your H or talking to him or whatever you can read it and maybe it will distract you long enought to not contact him. i'll bump up the thread for you. i stopped counseling w/SH in august because i couldn't afford it anymore. i really tried to be very diligent in writing everything SH and i talked about.

one of the things that we did talk about what the involvement of families, friends, coworkers, etc. SH told me that it was okay if anybody else talked to my H about what he was doing or the OW, etc. but that it could not come from me. i say that because of what you said about your SIL contacting the OW. this could actually work in your favor. now granted i would just stay away from encouraging her to do this but i would stop short in telling her not to do this. this is bound to cause tension between your H and the OW and that's what you want. you also have to stay away from telling people to "do what you gotta do" because you can't tell people this when it's something they are going to do anyway. i'm not saying you've said this but i could see you saying something similar to your SIL in regards to her talking to the OW.

i also talked w/SH about my H becoming mean. and he gives a very good explanation for this and even told me to expect this. just keep telling yourself that this is all about your H making himself feel good. everything he does and doesn't do is all about him right now and you jsut have to continue to remove yourself from him. sometimes as much as it hurts, it has to get worse before it gets better and it can get worse. just about the whole time i've been i've expected to find out my H and the OW moved into together but i knew this might be ncecssary in order for them to discover all their "warts." and then they brake up. sometimes expectd the worse but hoping for the best can really help you keep your sanity. but when you do get the best don't get sucked up in thinking what it really means. like SS says it's an addiction they are in.

the title of my session thread is sessions with steve harley and the plan. take a look if you want if not that's okay but just wanted to offer it as maybe another avenue to read upon as coming from the harleys. continued prayers to you, RR