I'm just objectively kooking at so many of these posts by BS and WS and can't help but see that OP is using WS and WS makes up 'fantasy'.

Anyone ever come out of the fog and genuinely see OP for anything less than a 'good memory?'

Do you still keep fond memories even if OP wasn't what you thought during A?

I know I don't have anything but disgust for OP, but I may be different. I felt USED and STUPID even while still there, but even more after. That plus shame of what I had done to BS and MYSELF.

GivvinTime,

After my EA ended, I had intense withdrawal – I missed OM and his friendship terribly – but at the same time I felt extremely angry and disgusted with him. He ended the EA with the words: ”It was a nice game but it’s over now”. I felt like a complete FOOL after I received that e-mail…. I felt stupid, hurt and used...and I realized it was my own fault and I could only blame myself. I hated myself and at that moment I know OM wasn’t the type of person I want to have involved in ANY part of my life... Not even as a platonic friend or acquaintance...NOTHING. My disappointment in him was huge. But… it’s strange that even though I felt this way, I still had residual feelings for him and missed him. I had these very contradicting feelings of 'hate' and 'love': On the one side I still cared about him, missed him etc. but on the other side I felt outrageous and didn’t want to have anything to do with him. For the first time I understand the true meaning of the words: “There is a thin line between hate and love”... I’m happy to say I have moved passed all those contradicting feelings... I believe the opposite of hate and love is indifference and I’m very close to this ideal state of indifference now. However, it took me very long time to get there. I could only completely let go and forgive OM after I’ve send him a closure letter (also 2nd NC letter – check signature line) and received his sincere apology.

Suzet

My FWH feels nothing but disgust for the ow..didn't take him long to come out of the fog (few weeks) and realize how stupid he was. He felt shame and humiliation for what he'd done, felt shame and humiliation for falling for her tricks, felt weak, fury for himself and her.

He has absolutely no good feelings about her or the A...as a matter of fact when something triggers a memory of her or the A he feels physically sick.

His IC and Steve Harley told him early in recover to think of what he went through as temporary insanity and that's how he thinks of it to this day.

"Any WS end up disgusted with OP and A?"

Only just about all of them. Some take longer than others, depending on the amount of denial and "fortress mentality", aka stubborness to admit a mistake.

Hi Givvin Time,

To answer your questions,

"Anyone ever come out of the fog and genuinely see OP for anything less than a 'good memory?"

Yes.

"Do you still keep fond memories even if OP wasn't what you thought during A?"

No.

I also felt like you did: "I felt USED and STUPID even while still there, but even more after. That plus shame of what I had done to BS and MYSELF."

Worthatry probably has hit the nail right on the head with his post.

Rose

Could you please elaborate more on your story? When you had your affair? Was it a full EA/PA? How long was it? When did you end it? Did you continue it after your H found out? Your H's a, EA, PA or both? When did it start? How long has it been going on since you discovered it?

My H did not have withdrawl. Soon after Dday we realized she was a serial OW and played him for a fool.

When he made his NC phone call, the first thing she said was, "Oh great, now I gotta start over!" No begging him to leave me for her, no crying etc. That's when he realized he was just easy pickins for her. That took care of any residual "fantasy" feelings for her!!

From then on all he has felt has been anger at himself and her. His feelings about the A only include disgust, shame, humiliation etc.

Guess it was lucky she was like this b/c she has never tried to contact him - guess she moved on to her next married conquest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (darn, someone needs to make a :barfing: Graemlin!)

Frags

TMCM: Mine was an office thing - used and abused by a 'boys will be boys' type of boss. I thought my H had been unfaithful or might be, so I did a 'what the heck' and caved into the pawing and bad lines. Afterward, felt slick with self-loathing, but not enough to confess. Thought I could handle it, fend him off, etc. I was pretty successful, but as most can attest to here, after having done it once, I was 'marked' and I also felt responsible - you know - 'I could have said no in the first place.'
VERY STUPID. Of course, I COULD have said no at any point. But worried that it might even effect my job.
ALSO VERY STUPID.
There was no EA, it was PA. I didn't seek it, but I didn't get out of there soon enough either.
His was friends then EA then PA. I'm still not sure if he's sincere about NC.

TMCM- oh, my PA was 3 years, 5-6X of phys contact and NO Emo , been over for some years b4 I confessed. His A started 3 years ago as a friendship, then EA about a year ago, then PA for 7mo and swares just tlk since DDay. No true indication in him emotionally that C has ended. still alot of defending her/&A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GivvinTime:
<strong>
I know I don't have anything but disgust for OP, but I may be different. I felt USED and STUPID even while still there, but even more after. That plus shame of what I had done to BS and MYSELF. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ditto

GivvinTime - have you taken your boss to the cleaners? Despite your "consent", sounds like a slam dunk sexual harassment case - if you feared for your job.

Is you boss married? Does his wife know of the affair? If not, why not?

WAT

It was several 7?8?9? years ago, he a serial philanderer, he's gone now to another company and his wife does know that he's constantly unfaithful. I was very foolish in so many ways.

Givin, my H feels revulsion at his OW and I believe him. The last time she tried to contact him he called me up and said "ewwwwwwwwwwwww, guess who contacted me........?"

He knows that he was just as disgusting as she was though, and holds revulsion for himself during that time. He says he hates to remember it because it was a "black time" in his life which he finds very depressing.

I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade: The A was the fault of WS--not the OP.

Anytime a WS or BS starts sounding like a bad movie script, you should immediately use the anti-b*llsh*t spray--and this is one of those times.

"The WS was led astray by the evil OP. WS was a helpless victim, powerless before the evil and cunning OP." Isn't this a "Young and the Restless" plot?

In a long term affair, every WS uses the OP just as much as the OP uses WS. OP lies to WS, but WS lies to OP, WS lies to BS. If the A lasted more 30 minutes, WS knew exactly what he/she was doing. WS and OP "play make-believe" and lie to each other constantly. The relationship is built on deceit and lies.

WAT: you wrote
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Only just about all of them. Some take longer than others, depending on the amount of denial and "fortress mentality" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it did for me. But I honestly didn't like the OP and could never really convine myself I could. I even remember trying to find something likable, redeeming, and came up short. I liked the progress it made in my job and career (honestly, but realy felt it cheapened the strides), I liked that I was doing more for my family financially (kinda made it ok), kinda liked how much more I appreciated my H in bed etc (the ol' "it HELPS the marriage bu11pokey" liberal spin)(also, we see where THAT got me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

But yes, I TRIED - I tried HARD- to rationalize the whole thing. I was not successful. ever.

But my WH was successful.

Man. That hurts. It hurts, because I thought i was better than anything. I really did. my ego is smarting.

But, I'm not so good of a catch, apparrently. Not to him. So it seems.

Maybe I'm not.

But I'll stick it out a while and see.

Then maybe I'll see if it's just him.

Y'know?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jimmy Mac:
<strong> I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade: The A was the fault of WS--not the OP.

Anytime a WS or BS starts sounding like a bad movie script, you should immediately use the anti-b*llsh*t spray--and this is one of those times.

"The WS was led astray by the evil OP. WS was a helpless victim, powerless before the evil and cunning OP." Isn't this a "Young and the Restless" plot?

In a long term affair, every WS uses the OP just as much as the OP uses WS. OP lies to WS, but WS lies to OP, WS lies to BS. If the A lasted more 30 minutes, WS knew exactly what he/she was doing. WS and OP "play make-believe" and lie to each other constantly. The relationship is built on deceit and lies. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Completely true Jimmy, but even a contributory player can end up seeing through their self delusion to the truth of OPs reality.

WS own contribution to the A is what makes them hate themselves once reality sets in.

It occurred to me long ago that in the GF of the OM in my sitch posted here my FWW would be the OP, and after the first PA SF it is clear my FWW did all the chasing, despite OM being a serial womaniser & cheater.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jimmy Mac:
<strong> I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade: The A was the fault of WS--not the OP.

Anytime a WS or BS starts sounding like a bad movie script, you should immediately use the anti-b*llsh*t spray--and this is one of those times.

"The WS was led astray by the evil OP. WS was a helpless victim, powerless before the evil and cunning OP." Isn't this a "Young and the Restless" plot?

In a long term affair, every WS uses the OP just as much as the OP uses WS. OP lies to WS, but WS lies to OP, WS lies to BS. If the A lasted more 30 minutes, WS knew exactly what he/she was doing. WS and OP "play make-believe" and lie to each other constantly. The relationship is built on deceit and lies. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. I felt used and well a whole variety of emotions I won't bore you with - once I came out of my fog. But I MYSELF made the choice and willingly engaged in the A. I was to blame for the A- I could have said no, stopped it and did not. I guess what I was trying to say, however, is that there are no lingering *happy fantasies* about the OM... I see the actuality of what he wanted from me.

sww: you so pointedly wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. I felt used and well a whole variety of emotions I won't bore you with - once I came out of my fog. But I MYSELF made the choice and willingly engaged in the A. I was to blame for the A- I could have said no, stopped it and did not. I guess what I was trying to say, however, is that there are no lingering *happy fantasies* about the OM... I see the actuality of what he wanted from me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Giv, wouldn't you say that pretty much somes up what you were looking for?

It sure is what I like to hear. Not all this "oh I miss OP, OP was so nice, A was nice, I have so many good memories...." etc. I, too, am wondering when WS finally sees what everyone else can see... when they see what a wretched thing they did. When they choose to compensate and atone....

Giv,

I'm a FBS, but I can tell you my FWH's thoughts about FOW two years post-affair: he feels sad that he ever engaged in a romantic relationship with her and that so many people suffered because of it. If he could go back to the first day they crossed the line he would turn and flee for his very life.

He doesn't hate her. He doesn't loathe her. He doesn't blame her. He sees her for the broken person she was when he met her and sees himself for the naive knight-in-shining-armour he perceived himself to be as he tried to rescue her.

He doesn't hold any loving, romantic thoughts of her. He just wishes her well. And so do I.

Hope this helps.

~ Snow