Isleepwithacat -

ED was for my eating disorder. I dont' want to talk about that.

And Top-Rope was 100% right in his description of my H's reaction. This is the norm for us and is obviously not healthy becasue look at us!

The frustration mulitplies!

HW,

Thanks for the reply. I don't think anyone here will judge you. I know I won't. You are dealing with the same emotions we all are, and as TP said, we all have our own weaknesses, problems, dysfunction (now and in childhood), whatever. The nice thing about the boards is how we can share our deepest fears, feelings and thoughts anonymously. I think that is what makes it so great.

I hope this weekend is better for you and all of us.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi HW,

I have a few minutes so I thought I would try to answer your questions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you don't mind my asking, would you please tell me some of the terrible things you discovered. Or just a round about idea. I really think I need to know.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By the "terrible things" I think you mean when I referred to that we avoided examining the reasons the affair happened, because to do so would compel us to see the ugly, shallow and callous side of ourselves.

Affairs are sordid things. They sully us in ways that many of us never thought we could be affected. They pollute that vision of ourselves that we clung to so dearly pre-affair.

My H and I both had fallen far from God. We had ceased to take care of each other and love each other. The reasons were many and we clung to some of them like a drunk to a light pole: it gave us something to keep us standing up straight.

After the first affair my husband couldn't bring himself to say to something very direct: that he felt I was better than him and should have never married him. OW was an old HS friend and he felt accepted by her. I made him feel like a failure.

I couldn't say to H, either, that I felt he had not taken the gifts God gave him and made his mark in life. I was disappointed. I did love him. I just thought he would have done so much more.

These were hard things to say to each other so we didn't. When our MC asked me, after affair #1 if I still respected my H, I lied. "Yes," I said, "I do. I respect him so much." (Melanie of Gone with the Wind comes to mind.) Heck no, I didn't respect him. But I loved him. I couldn't tell him what I really thought because I was so sure it would crumble him. He couldn't tell me what he thought because he thought I'd say "you're right" and be out the door.

We came to find out both of us were wrong.

There was a child created during my H's second affair. The child was aborted. It took months after dday before my H could tell me about the baby. He couldn't bear to tell me the truth, though, that he basically talked OW into it by stressing to her that her plan to pass the baby off as her H's wouldn't work for a variety of reasons. He always left it at, "I don't know," and hoped he would convince her with his words without really saying much at all.

He knew when she was going for the abortion but he made excuses why he couldn't go with her. She said later he just couldn't "dirty" his hands.

He told the MC and me that she just went out and did it. None of that was true. It took him months to be able to look at the truth. He was a strong proponent of life and yet, when tested, he chose to save his own skin rather than protect his child. Very Ugly. He truly believed when I learned the truth that our marriage would be over.

He was wrong again. Honesty is hard and painful. but it truly is where healing begins.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And if you don't mind can you possibly walk me through some of the ways you got to this point. Even the failures that didn't work or didn't give you the end results you were looking for.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stuffing my feelings never helped us one bit. It just allowed us to do this wierd dance like you described, where neither of you are happy, but you just go on about your life as if nothing happened. My H had learned this dance as he grew up in a family like your husband's: the elephant could bellow in the living room and they all ignored it was even there.

After affair number 2, we figured our marriage was a lost cause, so we were finally honest with each other. I told him that I just didn't love him like I used to and didn't think I ever would, that I was disappointed. He told me he thought I resented marrying him. He hated himself for pushing OW to abort the baby. He hated himself for so many things.

Guess what? He didn't crumble and I didn't leave.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did these things make you feel? What was your reaction when you heard them? How did you feel when speaking them out loud?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We were both terrified to tell the truth. Those were the "dark thoughts" we hid from each other. It hurt to hear each other's "truth," and it was extremely hard to be honest. As it turns out, our versions of the "truth" were skewered and had we had the guts to be honest years before, perhaps the affairs would have never happened.

Still, unloading the blackness we feared so much brought relief, too.

After following your story and reading the latest on your situation, I have a strong feeling that neither of you is able to be butt-naked honest with the other. You tried by divulging the ED. He recoiled in anger. Why? Only he can tell you that but I suspect he thought he brought that upon you. You need to reassure him that the ED is your own problem, he didn't cause it, and you would like his help.

Counsel with a strong pro-marriage counselor on these issues, not your pastor. Pastors are not often trained to adequately deal with affairs, let alone EDs. And your pastor is a friend of yours, so I can assure you that neither you nor your husband will be honest with him when you are both too afraid to be honest with each other.

Unveil things in counseling with the counselor present. I think that is the safest way for you to proceed. If he won't go, then go for youself.

One more thing. You say your H is going to take a position in the church when he retires. I'd bet a million he doesn't feel worthy of any post in the church and I'd have to agree with him. Judging by the way he has reacted to the aftermath of the A he is not a man who can hear God right now. Until he can find his way back to you without feeling overpowering guilt and condemnation, he has missed the point of why Christ died for us.

God bless you guys. I'll be praying for you for a breakthrough.

~ Snow

--edited for typos, lots of 'em!

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]</small>

Bumping for Heroswife.

HW,

I am so sorry to hear about the problems you and H are having. I want you to know that I understand how you feel, this same thing has been an issue for H and I as well.

So far I have established some of the factors that led to the EA. I was studying hard at the time for my exams, and was stressed and unapproachable. He was upset on learning his dad would not be coming to the wedding, and this led him to doubts about actually going through with it at all.

He kept the things that were bothering him to himself because he did not want to affect my studying, and I think he was in denial for a long time and it was just a 'friendship' that went too far. He is a very trusting and often naive person, and probably did not see it for what it was until it was too late.

I think your H and mine are similar in a lot of ways, it seems they both bury problems when they find it hard to deal with them. It is difficult to get them to talk and open up. They think it is important to 'be a man', be strong, deal with things alone and protect us from hurt.

I, too, have struggled with thinking that H didnt find me attractive. I have never seen OW, so I have no idea of how attractive she is. H has always expressly denied that he didnt find me attractive, and, although it takes time, I think that both you and I need to accept that maybe this was not a motivation for the A.

It seems that the attractiveness factor is far too small a thing to ever be the lone cause of an A. Thats just my humble opinion from my experience and learning on MB.

Your H does seem to be genuine about why he doesnt want to talk about it, but we must also question why he reacts so strongly to it being brought up. Is there still a skeleton in his closet? Or is he just having a hard time working out why he did it himself?

Do not let this incident prevent you from bringing it up, and do not let him frighten you. Talk to your FIL. Do not be ashamed of the recent events, because you still have a lot to be proud of in your recovery. You have every right to know why he make those choices, and he must stay calm and do his best to help you understand.

Try and focus on the positive and do not dwell on your paranoia, but this issue needs to be resolved.

Lots of love to your and your girls, be strong and remember this is only a bump in the road!

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: ks2001 ]</small>

HW,

First, I was afraid I'd scared you off. Glad that's not the case.

Next, I am Not sorry for giving you adivice....but I am remorseful that your H choose to not react in a more marriage appropriate manner. The goal is for you to get healthy...not hollow and <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> sad. I do regret your feeling this way again.

But DO know that I am PROUD of YOU <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> for taking that chance and putting yourself out there.
IMO it means less that it didn't work......but that your STILL willing to make the true efforts to save your M and yourself is what's important.

What I AM regretful of is that we did not Formulate a more complete and comprehensive Plan, BEFORE you confronted your H......and which thereby made you feel helpless again. I am sorry for NOT having more foresight then that.

However, I am encouraged (as should you be) by this turn of events.
Even though it may seem like doom and gloom......it is in fact a good week.
Cause now you KNOW 100% where you (and your M) Stand.

Indeed, you have put the "issues" BACK on the table.
YOU have stopped the Cycle.
That is a HUGE First Step!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Never discount that fact.

Next, you've made a decision to continue to pursue what you need ....Even if only in MC.
But that is what you have needed all along.
A Goal...combined with a Plan to get there.

As a result, your going to go to MC (with or without him).
Excellent! This way you'll either be working on the M or if he chooses Not to participate....working on moving on.
Your now making yourself "unstuck" from where you've been for some time NOW.

YOU are making ALL Kinds of Great decisions:
Refusing to continue in the dysfunctional "games", deciding you must have at least "some" answers, deciding on MC, ....deciding that you Will ASK what you must in a Safe and Supervised atmosphere.

Like it or NOT this is ALL PROGRESS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!!
Good for you!

It may only be a start....but that's the point, IT IS a Start!

You've now acknowledged and faced that you've been in a kind of Limbo for a while now.
One that is not healing nor healthy. Stuck in a loop....stuck in a Funk.
One that your H is comfortable being In......but YOU are NOT.

However, NOW your getting yourself together and formulating a plan to get out of it....one way or another. So if it does take MC to get where you need to go...then by all means get on that phone and make your appointment TODAY .
My enthusiasm comes from the fact that you are indeed taking action.
(give me a *High Five*)

Your learning that important lesson (that just because your NOT Currently facing a problem...IN NO WAY makes it go away). Unfortunately, that's the approach you guys have been using.
Very happy that your not intending to continue down that useless path.

NO problem can be solved UNTIL it is acknowledged.
(Cause like with you H "if there is NO problem....why any need for a solution"??)

Make sure to be Honest with your expectations to Him. Express That you expect him to Not Only Go....but also Fully participate.
His actions will in effect determine your reactions.
(Just as in his A....its totally HIS Choices that determine where you guys are going).

So once again Congratulations for making the courageous decision to do something different.
I'm proud of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Heroswife,

Are you OK, hon?

~ Snow

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't been posting lately.

My boss is out of the office and I'm working for 2 people right now with major deadlines this week.

I'll try to get on tomorrow. Thank you all for your continued support.

I am OK. But sad. I feel like I'm at a crossroads right now. I have to decide the direction I want my life to take. Right now I've chosen the wrong direction.

If I can't get him to understand then I have decided that my only option is to take an alternate route. I'm prepared to do that.

Hey guys. I figured now is as good a time as any to post. I'm up with an issue at one of my sites and I'm on a conference call to do damage control.

NG

Being judged is one of the reasons we keep secrets anyway. I've never told anyone so posting what I did on a message board is not considered easing into a revalation. It's more like diving in naked! I do feel relief having said it now but as I said before feel completely raw.

The weekend was OK. No fighting. I went running Saturday morning with my girlfriends at a park. That's something I've never done before in my life. It was wonderful and I feel even more motivated to run the 1/2 marathon in February. I run most every day but running with friends on a beautiful day was liberating. We plan to do it often.

Snowbelle

WOW! Thanks for coming back and posting your thoughts. I can see how hard it must have been for you. I can also see how it must have been helpful to be so open with each other. The abortion must have been a heavy reality to deal with. I can understand your H not wanting to share.

It's funny that you speak of Melanie Wilks. GWTW has been my favority movie since I was a little girl. And you hit the nail on the head with that statement. I do not respect him right now. I feel like everything he did up to that point was an absolute lie. I see him as being this statue of valor and honor. His friends wouldn't speak of thier affairs around him because they feared he would be disappointed in them. What does that say about the man?!?!?!

And the thought of him walking away from this incident smelling like a bed of roses mean while I'm crushed and left feeling utterly abused....I just can't stand that. I'm furious. I have tried to talk to him about this for a year. He refuses and uses the tactic Top-Rope laid out....intimidate by screaming and making threats until I drop it....only to bring it back up again and repeat the whole ugly drama!

I'm working on MC now. No appointment yet.

As for my H's position with the church...I don't know what to say. Maybe he's doing all of this to try to prove to me that he is worth keeping and that he has changed the way he feels and sees life. Before I was never a priority in his life. Now I feel like he focuses on me too much. I'm wondering if it's too late.

KS

It's good to hear from you! Sounds like you are doing very well. I'm so glad to hear it. I'm really trying to see this as a bump in the road. Right now it seems more like I'm missing that piece of I-10 that floated away with the last huricane that hit the gulf of mexico. Thanks for posting your words of encouragement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Top Rope

I'm not running anywhere. I do not feel very encouraged about my M right now but I have planted a few things in my life to consume my time and thoughts so I'm not as focused on it as I once was. Maybe that is what keeps me in this house. Knowing that now...as opposed to this time last year....I have a life of my own and I'm not just the military wife or just the mother. I let motherhood and 10 years of marriage strip me of myself. I think I'm building that back up and that feels wonderful.

I will predict this though, my H has spent his entire life stuffing his emotions. If I can get him to open up to me I will have a differnt man in my life. I think he would feel such a sense of relief he wouldn't know what to do with himself.

I'm off to bed now. I'm not sure I'm making much sense at this point. Doing a bit of rambling. Not to mention I had a bottle of wine before I went to bed last night. No, I don't have a problem. One of my dearest friends finalized her D yesterday so we had a nice long chat and some laughs.

I'm pretty sure that has something to do with my feeling of hopelessness lately. She was the person I turned to when I found out about the A. She busted her H in an A several years earlier and they worked through it. Then BAAM out of the blue she busts him again 4 years later. She busted him in his second A about 3 months ago. She didn't wait around or give him the chance to do it again. She said it hurt so bad the first time that she never dreamed he'd do it again...yet here she is.

OK, I said I was going to bed right?!?!?!?!

Good night all.

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: heroswife ]</small>

Hi M.

I sense you're in a hurry.

Give your life the benefit of time. Or is it, give your time the benefit of life?

WAT

WAT -

If you mean I'm in a hurry to resolve this I think you are right. I'm not sure why after a year and what appears to me a fairly good recovery I'm feeling like I have to just get to the end of this right now.

I just know that I can't go on without feeling like this is addressed. I know that for my health I need to do something.

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here are the steps he's taken:</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Left his job.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gave up a dream of his...or should I say realized his dream was his family and not this high profile job.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We became born again and committed our lives to Christ .</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Baptized as a family.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We decided as a family that he will get out of the military in 3 years and he'll take a position with the church.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's more attentive.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's very loving.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm the center of his life now, not his job, not the kids...but they are in the center with me...just not on top like before.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He suggests activities for the family now instead of planning his own activities and now including us.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He supports my efforts to run a marathon and has been very encouraging. He's offered to run my first 5K in December. My first 10K and my first 1/2 marathon in February. We plan to run the full marathon in the fall. He promises to stay with me and motivate me to finish all of these races.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How much more supportive can one man be?

I think I need to sit back, focus on our successes, get in MC and make my marriage work. I need to give him time but I also need to let him know that he can't avoid this and that recovery will not happen without it. I'll never get better and I'll never feel safe again.

<small>[ November 10, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: heroswife ]</small>

HW…

How much more supportive can one man be? Well from the sounds of it a lot. Yes, your husband might be doing all the above which is very important to you and him BUT right now the support he NEEDS to be giving you regarding the affair he isn’t, and this obstacle he is going to have to face head on.

You guys have been dealing with this for a year now, he’s had plenty of time to come to grips with the fact that you are going to need to talk about the A. How much longer can you “sit back” and just let things be like they have been?

I think it’s great that he has come to realize the need of doing things as a family, but now he needs to realize the importance of facing the A and closure is something you are seeking and need. And this isn’t just for you but for him also.

I understand you want to make your marriage work, and I commend you for putting forth the effort you have. You are a very strong woman and I admire that. But you can’t make your marriage work on your own. HE has to help you with this, and that means all aspects of it, good and bad. Dealing and talking about things that you don’t really want to talk about. It can’t always be you having to be the one to “let it go” or having to “get over it”. Marriage is a compromise and HE needs to be willing to do that. It seems you are the one ALWAYS having to make the compromise.

It’s great that you are finding yourself and doing the things again that YOU enjoy. Having that time I think is essential…..

Hope your week has slowed down a little, after reading the last few posts it sounds like you have been very busy.

Take care,
LJB

HW:

I guess I look at it differently (small surprise).

I think more than a year+ is more than ample time to "get it".
This does not mean that ALL the problems will have been solved in that time.

NO, but it does mean that the problems should have at least been addressed and acknowledged.
In that way, a Plan can be agreed upon and then implimented by/for you both.

I am in NO WAY minimizing the strides your H HAS made.
These are great gains and He should be doing them.
And its great that You DO see and recognize them.

HOWEVER, (You knew a but was coming didn't you?):

I sense that he is doing what my W prefers to do.
He is meeting the EN that he FEELS comfortable doing.
He meets those he "thinks" are important (even if he is wrong).
Probably those HE desires himself.

In fact, the things he is comfortable doing....he is doing at 100%. (or close.. am I right).

The problem seems to be that he's not meeting YOUR TOP EN's.
HE's doing what HE wants.....NOT what you need .

Well, what is the main principle with MBers???
Getting our EN's Met!! (that's what)

With that said, it Doesn't matter if he's meeting your bottom 5 to the Max.....if he's neglecting your top 2.
(This is just an example, so don't get caught up in my examples).

So here he is doing what HE wants (or thinks is best) , while ignoring what you are TELLING him to his face you need and want (but he just refuses to even acknowledge it exists).

As a result, your still as lonely and miserable as you ever were. (Except now you have all this extra baggage of an A to deal with....and deal with basically alone).

Then to top it all off.....your feeling guilty .
Once again your starting to let him off the hook, because your thinking "Well, he is trying and I do see some improvement" (even if its NOT what you really need).....and your starting to buy into the big lie that you "should" just make due with what is given.

(Once again putting your Own EN's on the back burner.....as if they don't " count " as much as his or any one else's).
This kind of prioritizing is what got you into trouble to begin with.
Don't you dare start back tracking yet once again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From HW:
How much more supportive can one man be?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As per your own personal requests.... Much more . But he refuses to step out of his own comfort zone.

He's been given MORE than enough time.....to at least get on the right path.
Unfortunately, he's even been unwilling to get into councouling or talk honestly with you about the how's, why's and where you go from here.
Sorry, but for all the good he has done......He's not been doing the "right" things for the M. IMO

Sadly, nothing is going to change between you 2, until your H admits that he's been doing something wrong. (As of now he thinks he's doing Enough). Doesn't matter if he IS wrong....nothings going to change till he accepts that as true. [Hopefully the MC can get him to see where YOU are coming from].

You guy's HAVE been "ignoring" the elephant in the room. How's that been working for ya?
Is the elephant any less hungry just because you turn a blind eye??

With that said....you have an excellant shot at making it (and truly being "recoverd") should your H decide to truly participate by going to MC and then opening up to you.

But this is only true, if your patterns and habits toward one another change.

I'll state it again....you can't force him to DO anything. But should he continue to refuse to do what you need.....then that does show your where the 2 of you are heading.
But remember its all about HIS choices.

At some point the dynamics of your M have to change....OR your just going to slowly slip back down into the problems and issues that caused the first A.
The Next time it may not be another A.....but something else just as bad.

(Sorry but I'm not like some here that think you should just "hold on" and HOPE for years that your WS finally "gets it").
Just don't think its either healthy or fair.
For any that disagree....I hope your stratagy is "working" for you!

HW/ 2B/ NG,

Who's up for some more "light weight" chatting?

Do you prefer to go back to the OTHER thread we had going OR start a fresh one?

Let me know somebody.

I'm up for some chit chat.....let's start a new thread...I think the other one is buried somewhere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok, quick update then I'll go look for the lighter chat thread.

We talked. He opened up. Not without an extensive session of me trying to explain how I needed to know.

I addressed the elephant in the room. He opened up. We talked about what lead up to it. He blew my mind with several comments that I had not even thought of. I'm not ready to go into that just yet.

Bottom line is I know what I needed to know. I received answers to questions that I never thought he'd answer. He's given me an open door to ask more questions if I need to.

I'm not sure how it happened. I really do not know what I said different this time that I didn't say the last 9998 times we had this discussion. Maybe it was the sheer fact that I would not let it go and I did not back down.

So next step is MC. Maybe starting with IC for me and my 'issue'.

Thank you all of helping me. I used your insight to make this work for me.

Seriously this was exactly what happened with exposure...I wanted it but didn't know how to make it through that. Now once again this board coached me through it and once again, you were all right.

I'm not going to bask in the glory of this and feel like I'm a success as I know the roller coaster will continue on even if I want to get off. I am going to keep my head down and continue to work.

Love to you all.

YES, Yes, yes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now THIS is the kind of news we've been waiting for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just as I am Proud of You for continuing to push for what you need......Right now I am almost as PROUD of your H for DOING what you needed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
(So he's starting to earn back his Hero's status...IMO).

This is a Great moment indeed.

Please make sure to THANK him for his honesty and make sure to show him how much it not only means to you.....but Helps you as well.

Do your very best to guard against letting these answers Get You Down and depressed.
Because if your H thinks that his confessions are making you worse off....he will only clam up again. Don't let all this work go to waste.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> From HW:
I'm not sure how it happened. I really do not know what I said different this time that I didn't say the last 9998 times we had this discussion. Maybe it was the sheer fact that I would not let it go and I did not back down .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From an outside perspective I'd say this is pretty close to what happened.

Isn't this really the only thing you did different this time (not letting him Back you down with attacks and guilt trips??)
And look how its worked out.

First you asked, then listend, then learned....and then most importantly, You DID!

Hope that you feel as Good about this as I do for you.

(Although I understand it may just be a feeling of relief....after all the emotions it has taken to get here).
And then lets not forget the "apprehension" you may be feeling Now that he has opened up at least a little.
You could be worried about is this just a one time thing and will he continue (even if he says he will)....also additional worries about "what do you do" once you get these answers.

Sometimes while we are fighting to get something.....we neglect to think about what we are going to do Once we get it. (Especially if its something we think we might actually Never get).

In addition, Please also keep in mind that answers to current questions, many times lead to other questions you had never even thought about or considered. This type of self exposer is just another "sub" process in your overall recovery journey.

All right I suppose the last thing you want is more advice from me.
So I'll end with this......I hope the answers ARE what you needed and now Feel more "safe" in talking with your H.
Getting Both are the only ways in which you guys are going to make it for the Long haul.

This is such Good news HW....I'm happy that you not only shared it with us....but that your H let it be possible For YOU have it To Share with us.
YEEEAAAHHH!!!

Its not the End all.......but its one Heck of a START!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Enjoy the day...and let it make for a productive weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Big HIGH **5** coming Your Way!

Wow! Where have I been. Y'all have been doing a lot of talking and somehow I've missed it.

Anyway, HW! I'm sooo happy he opened up. You got the miracle I was talking about.

I talk more later.

ng <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you NG.

I know my last post seemed so drab and not very informative. I think I'm still in shock that he talked to me. Thought it would require some battery cables and a few ludes to open him up but he just sat down with tears in his eyes and opened up. I can't even begin to tell you some of the things he told me. Things that were right in front of my face but I was helpless to do anything about. Turns out he has a very similar OCD issue like mine. His happens to be along the same line. Who's have thought that...not an ED but more of an addiction to be perfect physically. Alright, enough of that. I got what I wanted and now I'm wondering how to approach him with my other questions. Only a few left unanswered....I have thought of them since our discussion. I should have brought a list but I never thought he'd talk to me so I was not prepared.

I hope you are ok NG. Look for the other lighter thread I bumped up for us.

ditto tr - thank him for allowing you in.

How to continue?

Be patient.

It'll come.

Remember to look at your daughters and imagine your lives without them. That ought to keep you focused on what's important in life.

WAT