Disclaimer: Dylan, this is a private thread. I would prefer if you do not read this please.

Well, yesterday was the one year anniversery of the day I started writing 'my desolate journal'. It's not actually 1 yr since D-day, but rather 1 year since the day I knew that I was going to fall apart because of my W's ongoing affair. A month later, W said she did not know if she 'could or would' end her affair and did not want to work on fixing our marriage. My son and I packed and left after that.

Yesterday was the official 'limit' for my Plan A. A while back I decided to scrap the date and just keep going, doing my best to win back my beloved's heart.

Well, it's not going so well.

Although we are getting along very well, we are still no closer to working on recovery. I'm still in limbo and I still see no active efforts from my FWW towards healing either our relationship or our life in general.

She has really shut me out. And while I want to respect her privacy and let her have some space to work things out for herself, I'm feeling horribly left in the dark. There's emailing between her and others that I'm not privy to. There's posting on a private forum over at SYMC that I'm not privy to. All these thoughts and things that would help shed some light on how I'm doing and where we are headed and I'm cut off.

She was supposed to find work in September, when our son went back to school and here we are in December and she's still home all day. Our finances are extremely strained and until spring, it's only going to get worse.

If I mention this, it'll be construed as 'pressure' and that'll just make things worse.

I want to stay faithful and keep working on this, but I seem to be having a really rough spot as all kinds of thoughts keep flooding my scared, hurting brain.

Like for example, after my affair, 5 yrs ago, I had to prove myself worthy and make all kinds of changes... now, after her affair, it's still me who has to prove myself worthy and make all kinds of changes...

Not that those changes don't need to be made... but still. It doesn't seem fair that I'm the bad guy no matter what.

I'm hurting and feeling used and abused and generally taken for a ride. It may not be the case, but it's how I feel.

Openness and full honesty from her would go a long way.

I hate this.

I'm stuck. Hurting. Trapped in my own cycle of negative, hopeless thoughts.

It was bearable when I had a cut-off date. Now, I'm still in limbo, but it's for an indefinite time.

Could be days. Could be months. Could be years.

Judging from the amount of processing W did over our 6 month separation and 6 months co-habitating and how far she's come since then, I predict there will be no end to this. Ever.

Which of course is a ludicrous statement to make, but it's how I feel.

Any advice out there on how to quiet my hurt?
How to get my patience and perseverance back on track?

Am I just fooling myself? Chasing after the love of a person who simply doesn't want me anymore? Is this a fools quest?

And what if we do step into recovery? There's no validation from her in terms of the problems I had with our marriage? It's all about what I did wrong.

I want to scream.

But I cannot. I have to go back to work and smile and pretend that I'm a functional person.

dewt

For me a 1 year plan A would never work.

Has it worked out for you?

If it has not worked for you then what are your options?

Dewt,
I did an 18 month Plan A...but like yours, the beginning of it wasn't so good, I LBed a lot, you dated, neither of which are part of a good Plan A.

But, if you have put in some good months, being a Plan A (designed to separate the WS from the OP) spouse isn't useful as a life-plan.

I can't tell from this post if the 2 of you are separated. If you are, I think it is time for Plan B. You sound bitter & resentful--and I'm not saying you don't have reason. However when you use the following phrases, it is an indication the lovebank is on a major drain:

"I'm feeling horribly left in the dark."

"scared, hurting brain"

"I'm hurting and feeling used and abused and generally taken for a ride."

"I'm stuck. Hurting. Trapped in my own cycle of negative, hopeless thoughts."

It may be time to consider a change in the level of contact.

Plan B isn't divorce, and it still isn't dating, but it is a time to quiet your hurt at daily actions and stay on track so that reconciliation remains an option on your part.

A book you may find useful is Reconcilable Differences by Jim Talley. It's about long-term staying on track and the cyclical dynamics within a relationship.

greergan,

Well, thus far it hasn't worked so well.

I'm able to hold back the disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts and selfish demands but I've given up twice so far and started dating. This of course isn't part of the Harley Plan for marriage building and didn't do much to show my W how much I want her back. Then again each time I started dating, I didn't think I had a hope in heck and so my priority wasn't winning her back, it was getting on with my life. Both times her reaction to my dating led me to believe that there were still feelings there for me and so I stopped dating and refocused anew on saving this family.

So, to answer your question, thus far it hasn't worked worth a damn. But, in all fairness, it sure wasn't the best Plan A.

Options? Well, I'm still working on that one. I'm still trying to decide if I need options or if I should just backburner this inner turmoil and keep trying.

Lor, thanks sooo much for dropping in. I'm always extra grateful when someone who knows our history has a comment...

We are not separated. We are 'co-habitating'. In other words, living together, but not 'together'. There has been some intimacy between us but it's mostly me pushing for it, and quite frankly, if I have to push for it, where's the value? I mean, this was one of my big issues pre-A. And now, here I am, 1 year and a whole lotta pain and betrayal later... and I'm in the same spot. Oh, no... wait... sorry... I'm in a worse spot.

I thought that there were signs of improvement, and the intimacy was part of that, but I haven't made any 'moves' in the past week or so and it's pretty apparent who needs/wants intimacy and who doesn't. It makes me feel like those times were 'duty sex' (without the actual sex) and if there's one thing that could send me running for the hills, it's that.

Lor, the lovebank has been on MAJOR drain for some time now. And I don't know what to do about it. I could try communicating with Dylan about that, AGAIN, but that would just set me up for more disappointment and frustration.

And, to be totally honest, I don't think that any more disappointment or frustration would be healthy for me.

Reconciliation. Sounds nice. Sounds like a pipe dream right now. A dream that I could spend the next 5 years chasing and still be no closer.

Unless Dylan steps up to the plate and makes some sort of commitment, followed by ACTION, we haven't a hope in heck of making this work. I really don't know how long I can keep my doors open for her.

I'm sick and tired of working my a$$ off and being treated like a worthless, second-rate schlep. I get enough of that at work.

I don't think that there will be a Plan B. I tried it last winter and all it did was save me some money off the phone bill. Not only that, but with special needs son in the picture, Plan B is unfair to him and impractical.

I went and looked at some property today. I'm thinking of putting an offer in next week. The scenario running through my head right now is that IF everything (financing, low offer accepted) works out (which it probably won't) maybe I should just move there alone and get on with my life.

Nothing I do or say seems to make a difference to Dylan. She doesn't seem to be all that concerned with the fact that limbo is killing me. If she were, I think I would see some more effort on her part to make some contributions to this family. Maybe a job so that we're not so damned destitute, some counselling/therapy to show that she's actually working on her issues and trying to sort this out. Heck, if she'd just open up to me and share instead of all this private emailing and posting that would go a long way too.

Part of me is convinced that she's doing this because she knows that eventually I'll crack and do something stupid like give up or start dating again and then we can break up and she can keep pointing her finger at me as the bad guy.

Know what's funny?

One kiss from her and I'd be on the top of the world, ready to face this crap for another 6 weeks.

How pathetic is that?

dewt

Well, I must admit I really was hoping to talk about this here instead of dumping it all on my W and LBing all over the place...

Oh well.

Damage control advice?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Anyone?

Hey, Dewt. I guess most folks are still asleep. {{{{dewt}}}}

I am sure one of the more seasoned vets will be along soon. Edited to take out the 2x4s.

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: fightingalone-again ]</small>

I think most of the vets have written me off. Which is kind of a drag. Not that I don't deserve to be written of for some of the idiotic decisions I've made over the past year, but I'm learning to see patterns in my thinking.

Usually I start off with great plans and all the best intentions but when my efforts don't yeild results and I start to get frustrated, the pain mounts until I crack and do something incredibly self sabotaging.

Which was why I started this thread. Which is also why it said, 'need help' in the subject line.

'Cause the frustration and pain has been mounting again and rather than let the cycle continue I hoped to reach out. To vent and be heard and then be reassured and encouraged. Maybe get a fresh perspective on things, or a wake-up 2x4 anything to snap me out of this and help me get realigned.

Well, what ended up happening is that my W, unable to fail to notice my mood asked me about it and we talked.

And I basically dumped the contents of this thread in her lap. I did it without angry outbursts and without disrespectful judgements. I made no selfish demands.

However. Since then, coincidence has conspired and as of tommorrow morning, she is on a bus back to our old town to get some of our stuff from the house in which OP now lives. She will be gone overnight.

So come Sunday night, we will find out if indeed coincidence has conspired or if I blew it. Again.

Lori, greergan, and fightingalone-again; I want to say that I really appreciate you posting to me. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

John

So dewt, what was her reaction to reading the thread? Did you discuss it at all? Did she understand your feelings and/or express hers?

And the trip to the OW's house? Is that closure?,,gathering up more of her belongings? Or what?

Omigosh, no... she did not read the thread. We have an agreement/POJA regarding that. If in the subject or opening it says 'vent' or otherwise asks the other not to read, well then we respect that.

No, she did not read it. We talked. But I pretty much covered everything there.

We pretty much discussed it all night. I printed out an read Uphill's excellent post from the WW's need some advice on recovering M thread and explained how I was hurt because this post explained all the things I felt I was missing. Then I said I was even more hurt and bitter because since we aren't in 'recovery' I shouldn't even expect or hope for these things.

I explained how 'chilling' with her in 'limbo' was bearable and even enjoyable when I had a time limit in place, but now that I'd given it up I was having a really tough time. Because I was back to being in limbo with no end in sight.

That leaves me with a feeling of hopelessness and I tend to panic and do stupid things when faced with interminable hopelessness. It's almost like I'd rather have everything blow up in my face than wait forever for it to happen. If that makes any sense.

Our conversation was fairly two sided, but mostly it was me unloading. I wasn't looking for promises from her... I was just sharing why I'd been walking around for 2 days looking like my dog died.

OW's house is our old house. She took over when Dylan left to join mini-dewt and I. Most of our belongings are still here. When I left, I took only clothes and the PS2. (priorities, dontcha know) Mostly I've furnished here from scratched and we haven't yet been able to afford to go get all our stuff. Much less store it.

So Dylan is going to get some of our belongings.

She is being very considerate and reassuring me that there will be no contact with OP. I believe her.

Are there other reasons for her going? I don't know. There is so much that she does not share with me that really I have no idea. I mean, I do believe her... but I'm not sure, if you get my meaning.

We talked about it some weeks ago, but didn't reach POJA on it so she decided not to go. We still haven't reached POJA but now she is going anyway. If I asked her to stay and not go, I'm sure she would respect that. The thing is, to me, that falls in the selfish demands catagory and is controlling behaviour. Furthermore, there are very legit reasons for this trip. Are there other reasons mixed in? Dunno. I highly suspect that to be the case, though I don't know that they are all that sinister.

I guess I'll find out.

I'm actually really doing fine about this trip. Not freaking out, I mean. Even if there is contact, is it going to kill me? Or send me into a fit of depression and pain? Nah.

It's like I told Dylan last night when we were discussing the NC thing. I appreciate NC for what it is, and what it represents. I do not and will not, find myself sleepless, obsessing over OP.

"OP is not the enemy," I said,"You are."

She blinked twice, thankfully didn't take my statement out of context and said, "You're right."

She seemed very thoughtful after that. And today she had an extremely rough day emotionally.

Something has been kick-started, it seems. I just don't know what.

dewt

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Oh, I forgot to add. When we said good-night last night, she gave me a really nice kiss on the lips.

I've been doing pretty good since. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

dewt

Mine is 14 months long so i know how you feel.

I am going back to plan B...almost no contact and feeling better each day.

I still dont know why am still here...perhaps like you i am still unsure if i want WS or not...is the marriage worth it or not...should i stay and wait or not.

Anyway...just want to show support to you to hang on.

Hey Zizzy,

Maybe you are here because you're just not quite ready to give up yet. I think that's pretty admirable.

I read your update and want you to know that you and your H will be included in my prayers.

Thanks for your support. Encouraging words are worth more than gold right now.

dewt

dewt,

I haven't read this thread yet. I got partway through your first post before I'm ready to pounce with another AO. I will come back later if you want.

I need to know something though......

Are you willing to deal with YOUR stuff, not just whine about what you're not getting from Dylan yet?

Are you willing to start looking at YOUR patterns and start changing them?

If you are, then I will post to you when I can. If not, then I won't.

dewt, you are a lot like my FWH. I hope you don't stay that way. But it's your choice. Just be honest about what you really want from us here ok?

The kind of "help" I can give you might not be what you want or are looking for. Be sure to tell me if that's the case ok?

Dewt,
I just joined this thread and am thankful to have fallen onto it. Let me give you some insight into the future of what could happen.

4 years ago...yes 4 years ago I found out my wife was having an affair with a much, much older man. Thanks for nothing internet IM. We got over it through SEVERE family drama and self soul searching and separation and limbo...ALL OF IT!!

I sit here at 5Am my time telling you that I'm still in partial limbo, BECASUE there is SOOO much baggage taht carries on. I love my wife prior to this nasty event with ALL my heart and soul, but the wife of post event is a new beasts.

She trys to to make it better, but i'm concerned her changes are only skin deep. As far as the sex goes, I don't see how i could ever bring my self to want to become intimiate with her again.

Point being...5 years later and I've got her back..somewhat...the question lingers wold I have been better off moving on? Now that we have a 2 year old daughter the question becomes more and more complex???

Hope this helps.

Loving boundries... I guess I deserved some of that.

I respect your opinions and would appreciate what you have to say.

Having said that, please understand that this thread started off as a vent. The word 'whine' makes me cringe, but if that's what you see then I guess I should take a closer look too. I don't want to whine nor be thought of as a whiner.

I am working on me. I do recognize patterns and am determined to interupt the bad ones and develop the good ones. I love my wife and want to win back her heart. I know that will take years. I'm ready and willing to step up to the plate.

I don't know if I have what it takes. I guess that it depends on what I'm faced with. When I'm encouraged, I can climb any wall, run any race. When I'm discouraged, I can be wildly unpredictable and self distructive. It takes a LOT to discourage me, but there are few things that are 'hot buttons to despair', if you get my meaning.

I was a damaged person to start with and this has not improved things... well, in someways it has, but over all, my selfworth, if sold, would likely be enough to by you a pack of sugar for your coffee.

However, I realize that if I want to have a good and fulfilling life, I have changes to make and then prove to myself that I can keep those changes for the long run.

I am not afraid of crits, nor even harsh realities. Considering some of the stunts I've pulled, would I keep coming back here if I was?

I really want this marriage to work. For that to have even a chance to happen, I know full well that I have to, as K so elequently put it, "establish a track record of good marital behaviour."

To do that I need to keep focused and keep my perspective in check.

Because when I don't... well, we all know what happens when I don't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

So I know what I have to do, and I even somewhat know how to do it.

From time to time, I may need some help and support from my friends.

So.... what's on your mind?

J

<small>[ December 04, 2004, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Hey there dewt,

I read your latest post on this thread to see if you were going to tell me to buzz off. I haven't read the rest.

What's on my mind you ask? Well, I've been trying to figure out if you're looking for help in improving yourself and your situation so that rebuilding is a good option for both you and Dylan, or if you're using the MB board as a way to manipulate in a variety of ways.

I still haven't figured it out.

But, if you are sincere, I might be able to help you. I might be able to help myself at the same time. Posting to you before helped me a lot. You bring out the worst in me, dewt. That makes it easier for me to see where I need the most work at this time.

Sorry about the whining crack I made. Imo, a vent is a vent, but when someone vents repeatedly about the same things--without doing anything to change their part in it--it becomes whining. But that's my opinion, nothing more.
I shouldn't have made a crack about it in that way. I'm sorry that I succumbed to making the crack because that is not how I want to act--not for how it impacted you. Told ya that you bring out the worst in me.

I'm going to go make coffee, take care of myself, and come back later. Hopefully I'll then be sorry about how the whining crack impacted you and be able to give you a proper apology.

Those smilie things aren't working right now. Just insert eye rolling, razzes, embarassed, and smiles where you think I would have put them LOL

I've been accused of manipulation and controlling behaviour before. I don't see it. Please understand I'm not denying it or saying I'm not doing it, just that I don't see it.

I genuinely want to make this work. I can think of a dozen better ways that I could have spent the last year other than hanging out a message board trying to control/manipulate someone who doesn't want to be with me. I honestly want a happy ending to this. I desperately don't want to be the one to ensure an unhappy one.

Don't worry about the whining comment. If nothing else, through this I've developed a thick skin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And I really didn't take it all that bad anyway. Fact is, when I wrote that I was hurting pretty bad and if that came through as whining rather than venting, I could use some pointers towards doing something a wee bit more productive.

J

Good morning dewt,

Let's talk about what Plan A is and isn't because it's so misunderstood. It is a strategy to end affairs, and since dylan's affair is over...the only parts of it that apply now are filling needs and not love busting. I'm assuming that's what you're doing. But while Plan A doesn't expect reciprocity...marriage building (which includes filling needs and no love busting) has expectations that those actions will be returned.

As I understand your story however, what has failed to happen is that any good marriage plan...whether it's Plan A or just MBing...it requires CONSISTENCY over TIME. My good friend takola says that "trust is a paycheck, not the lottery" and she's right. Trust, compatibility and intimacy are created by consist actions over long periods of time. It takes YEARS to build trust...and seconds to destroy it. For instance, you could spend months where you never raised your voice to your wife...and she would begin to believe that you might be able to talk to her respectfully....and then in one moment of anger...kablooey...all the progress made is lost. Think about friendship...you can be like brothers with someone for years...and then overhear them lying about you and in seconds...the friendship is lost.

From where I'm sitting...this is where your relationship has floundered. You work very hard for a given amount of time, and then become angry, weak, or unhappy...and all the hard work goes down the drain. Dating other women is a good example of how that manifests it self. How have you done with the porn issue? How long are you able to communicate respectfully without losing your cool? Unless you can approach these kinds of issues with consistency, and a real determination to rid them from your married life...trust and safety...the foundation of good relationships will continue to crumble. You cannot build a house with a faulty foundation and expect it to weather the inevitable storms.

Your focus has always been on dylan...and while I'm not saying she has no culpability...it is not in your power to change her. It is in your power to change YOU. And each time you prove that you are incapable of sustained dedication to healthy marital patterns....you reinforce not your effort...but your inability to permanently address the issues that are tearing your marriage apart.

Best of luck to you dewt. I know you have old wounds to heal, I did too...but there was a point in time where what was done to me was not nearly as important as what I wanted my future to be like. I couldn't blame my lot in life on the past any longer if I intended to be a healthy/happy person.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dewt:
I've given up twice so far and started dating. This of course isn't part of the Harley Plan for marriage building and didn't do much to show my W how much I want her back. Then again each time I started dating, I didn't think I had a hope in heck and so my priority wasn't winning her back, it was getting on with my life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dewt...

getting on with my life .... is not who you take into your bed.

Don't make a self-disrespecting act appear to be something useful to you. What you did (have sex with somone you did not care very much about) when you thought things weren't going to work out between you and Dylan is an old pattern of yours.

You need to change your old patterns.

If you consider a one-night-stand with an old flame to be "getting on with my life" ... I suggest you re-think what you value about your life.

How does getting sex from a woman contribute to your future growth and development? This seems to be a very immature definition of "getting on with my life" that would be more appropriate to a younger man ... not a grown man with a child.

If you had said.. "I am getting on with my life. I've decided to continue my education and finish my degree."

or

"I am getting on with my life. I have decided to go start a new business venture."

or

"I am getting on with my life. I am planning a rafting trip with baby Dewt."

.... but "I have decided that I am getting on with my life ... I am going to have sex with other women..."

YIKES Dewt.... you are probably less attractive as a long term relationship risk with that definition of "getting on with my life"...

YOUR LIFE is more valuable than who you take to bed.

When you do and say things like this ... it's like you erase all your prior efforts to demonstrate maturity. It appears that your new-found relationship patience and maturity and your religious values are for show only .... Deeply religious men who live their lives ~applying~ Bible verses to their daily choices do not invite women into their bed for casual sex.

What "moving on with my life" ... can you demonstrate NOW for Dylan that does not pose a threat to her??? What "moving on with my life" would NOT represent a step backwards into your old habits of short-term gratification?

Dewt.... you need to stop reverting to your old reptilian habits when you feel scared and/or hurt. (Read Schnarch's Passionate Marriage for reference of the term reptilian habits)

Pep

Thanks folks, for replying. I have an event to attend with Mini-dewt this aft, I will come back later and reply more thoroughly.

dewt