buttercup,-- how ironic that you guys were playing DDR. we broke down and bought a playstation2 and eyetoy and DDR for the kids this year. we all had a blast with that! definately need to get out the camcorder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> wife is working right now and kids are trying to figure out spiderman on ps2. yesterday went pretty good, the wife sat on her heating pad and read all afternoon while we watched the kids play. her mom,sister, and sister's 9 y.o.son came over.and my sister as well. today we went to church, and i told her that i didn't know if this was the right place to say it, but she looks beautiful today. she smiled nice and said thanks.when we got home, we were in the bedroom changing and i gave her a hug and kiss on the lips. i wanted to give her a "real" kiss, not just a peck on the lips, but she did not seem to receptive.do you think i am going to fast? i don't know if it is w/drawal or guilt keeping her from opening up to me? i suspect that if i ask her, she would say she doesn't know if she loves me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> i am trying to just get thru this week w/out any LB'S or deep discussions. maybe just give her more time? i really want us to stay/be together, i just don't know how long i can wait before she makes some noticable effort. we are talking about selling our house in the country and moving into the small town where the kids go to school. she mentioned this today, and i wonder, would we be talking about seeling a house and buying another one if she didn't think we were going to be together? that makes me think that maybe in her sub-conciuos, we are going to be together, and work this out? otherwise, it would seem silly to buy a house, when neither one of us could afford it on our own. let me know what you guys think. thanks, ..arjdad

Hey arjdad hows it going, it sounds like your doing well. It's been a while since I posted too you but something you just said caught my eye.

i really want us to stay/be together, i just don't know how long i can wait before she makes some noticable effort. we are talking about selling our house in the country and moving into the small town where the kids go to school. she mentioned this today, and i wonder, would we be talking about seeling a house and buying another one if she didn't think we were going to be together? that makes me think that maybe in her sub-conciuos, we are going to be together, and work this out? otherwise, it would seem silly to buy a house, when neither one of us could afford it on our own. let me know what you guys think. thanks, ..arjdad

Here's what I see, and this is MHO, based on my sitch.

1. Your W is in NC. My WW has moved onto another OM party guy.

2. Your W is still living in the house talking about buying another. My WW is preparing to move into an appt. in Jan.

3. Your W is allowing you to provide some, albeit not much, affection towards her. My WW doesn't like me touching, or seeing her naked.

It seems to me that you have many positives right now to be thankful for. I've always been a half full kind of guy though so maybe I'm reading too much into your sitch. All I know is I would LOVE to see these kind of positives from my WW.

My 2 cents, Native

native,-- it's good to hear from you. i hope you are having good holidays ,[all things considered]. something you said caught my eye, talking about her not liking you seeing her naked. that is how my wife is too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i noticed this morning when she got in the shower, i was still in bed, but she kept a towel around her until she was behind the shower door.kinda hurts the old ego. i know i have some positives, and my sitch. seems a lot better then some of you other guys, but patience has never been my strong suit. i think i may be expecting to much to soon, in fact, she said something to that effect in MC. i hope someday soon you will see something encouraging in your own sitch. thanks for giving me your 2 cents, come back anytime, as i can use all the help i can get!...arjdad

Arj,

Well for the Holidays... all I can say is crappy, weird. Gave WW a few gifts, I got a friendship hug (that I had to ask for). I'm laughing to myself now as I'm typing this.

Yes do see the positives that you have.
Yes do try and be patient, if it's one thing that I've leaned through this in my sitch is if I try and push to hard it only pushes them away.

Yup, my WW usually closes the door when she's getting ready for work. I'm now knocking on the door before I enter MY OWN ROOM!!

native, isee our DD are very close, so we are basically in the same time frame. i know i should recognize the positives, i just want more faster. but i know you are right, if i push, it pushes her away. and i know everyone is different in regards to w/drawal and fog. sometimes i think i would like to just smack her with a newspaper and say 'WAKE UP'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> i would never do that, but it seems like that is what a WS needs to do. recognize they have someone who they have completely crushed willing to forgive them and welcome them back into thier lives. i would do anything if my wife would initiate any KIND OF AFFECTION TOWARDS ME. i know i am not alone on this one. and i know what you mean about knocking on your own door, i do that to. mostly trying to be extra considerate, since before i was probably just the opposite. no LB'S in 8 + weeks, a record for me no doubt. she has noticed the diff. she said so in MC. anyway, thanks for talking, i feel a little down today, and it helps,...arjdad

ArJdad---I have not post to you in a few days, but I read your posts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . It looks like you had not such a bad time with your wife. That sounds promising!! Did Santa bring you what you want it or not??? Why are you feeling low today? My husband is low today too. He wrote me a depressing e-mail, telling me to go with OM. So as you can see those ups and downs last longer than we want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

What are you doing for New Years? Did you talked to your wife again about writing me? Or you are still waiting for after the holidays?

How was your little boy in Christmas/did he have a good one? He got everything he wanted?? I hope so. They are still so innocent at that age. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care.

Myrta

Hey Arj, yeah we're pretty close to the same Dday thats one of the reasons that I've kept up with your sitch. Yup we're all different in how we deal with our own sitchs. I'm glad I could help in any way. We all need help during this. One day at a time I guess, although I think I've hit the anger stage now... so maybe I am progressing if my M isn't.

Native

myrta,-- i did have a pretty good time w/ the wife and family. altho i would have preferred her to pay a little more attention to me and a little less to the book. although years ago, i wouldn't have thought twice about it, because she loves to read. i guess it was good to see her relaxing. mrs santa was good to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . she got me more than i got her. i felt pretty bad and told her that and she shrugged her shoulders and said thats ok with a smile. i don't know why i am feeling low today,maybe just growing impatient. i have not talked to her about e-mailing you, maybe tonight. new years eve, we will go to my bro.s house and play games. they have a daughterin 12 grade and on varsity b-ball with our oldest. they also have adopted a 5y.o. boy, so our son will have someone to play with.[ they also have a 20 y.o. son in college out of state, dont think he will be there]. we always have fun there, thats where we had such a good time at thanksgiving.our kids all had a great christmas, we always spend to much. he got all he asked for and then some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> . did you read my earlier posts? about her not being to receptive to kissing? do you think i should slow down? or press the issue of possible contact? personally, i think she just needs more time, but i like to here your opionion also.thanks,.arjdad...............................................native, i guess it just helps knowing you are not the only one going thru this crap, it has to get better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i think i have been in and out of the anger stage 3-4 times now. sometimes i think i want to just throw in the towel. i mean, i am not the one who had the A, so why am i busting my rear to save the M and trying to convince her to try? i know in my case it is a pity party, because i know i love her and don't want this M to end. ultimately tho, it is out of my hands. like you said, one day at a time. good luck,...arjdad

ArJdad- It seems you had a pretty good Christmas under the cirmcunstances. It was not great, because you expected more, but it was ok.
Well, wait until she comes and gets close to you, and shows that she wants to be kiss by you. Dont do it first for the time being. Maybe its too much for now. Yes, we are all different and she might need more time. I think your time with her is flowing well. I know you would like more, but its hard to do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Like I said, even my husband is complaining last night and today. He is angry with me today, because I was soooooooooo tired last night and did not "want to do it". Arj...I thought ,him and I were past that, but I guess I was wrong!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I have worked like a dog the past three days, with christmas wrapping, we had close to 30 guest on Christmas eve, we went yesterday to his cousin's house for Christmas dinner. I am drained of energy, but he still wants me to have all this energy when he snaps his fingers. It hurts me, that he does not understand, that I am really tired, but he thinks that I am thinking of OM, and that I dont love him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It is not easy, Arj. not easy at all!!

Take care...

Myrta

MYRTA,-- i did have a good time under the circumstances. i was just thinking before your last post that i should quit being the one to initiate things. although christmas eve before she left with oldest d to shop, she came to me with hug and quik kiss on the lips <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> it was very nice, made my whole day. i am sorry things are not going so well there, but they will get better. i know it is hard on both of you. i am sure your H knows you are really tired from all that work, but i can sympathize with him if he is a little insecure and paranoid. it sounds like you have been working hard and need a little rest. hopefully he will recognize this and try to be understanding. i am sorry that all i ever do is ask quetions about my own sitch. and never seem to be concerned with your guys' sitch. i really am, and i think you guys have wethered the storm and are going to make it. but like you said, it isn't easy. most things worth having don't come easy. keep your heads up and keep working <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . you two are an encouragement to me and others. thank you,...arjdad

arjdad,

Sorry, I haven't gotten online all day. Busy entertaining MORE people! Argh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> We thought we might end up with a houseful of guests because it got really bad (icy and snowy) out all of a sudden. Luckily, they left and got home safely!

Anyway, it sounds like you had a nice Christmas. Yup, DDR is a rip! The kids were still doing it today! Amazing. Did you know that when they do well, they get more songs added to their game? It's interesting. Videotaping them doing it sounds like a plan! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

About your progress, I think you are doing fine. I'm sure that you'd want/expect more, but if you take things slowly and work it all out, it'll be better in the longrun. Don't rush anything!

Myrta,
Sorry about having a rough time with Stanley. I think he's the energizer bunny in disguise. Either that, or he's my H! LOL! Honestly, aren't these guys supposed to SLOW DOWN when they reach, umm, middle age?? I made it clear to my H that I'm not getting back into the routine of doing that daily anymore. I'm no spring chicken! I think that they require it more as if we're "proving" something by doing it with them that often now. A territorial thing! (Stanley, if you're reading this--give Myrta some time to recoup from entertaining! The poor dear!!).

Take care.
CC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MYRTA,-- i did have a good time under the circumstances. i was just thinking before your last post that i should quit being the one to initiate things. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Arjdad:

I disagree------ maybe is because of my own triggers or whatever. But when my wife was having the affair and started to reject me in bed I told her I would not initiate anymore and that I would wait for her if she wanted sex. Those words must have been warmly received Arjdad. The last thing she wanted was for me to try.

Now, if I get rejected I am going to try again. I am not going to play any games. If that does not work then I have my answer.

She is your wife Arjdad and perhaps she is sidetracked, but you have a right to expect some affection. She has to feel some pressure from somewhere.

My wife complains because I want to send her to the OM. Of course, I don't want to do that. But, if I don't recover the wife I used to have what is the point? I don't want to have a wife who dreams about OM all day long. I cannot wait forever. Perhaps you should made that clear to your wife Arj. Myrta knows that I will support her if she cannot get back to her original status with me and I will give my support if she wants a life somewhere else.

I don't want a false wife--------- I want the real deal. Otherwise, what is the point. That is what I mean by sending her back. At least I would know I tried and did not win the race. I would think that your wife needs a little push.

Let me ask you a question:

Don't you want to have SF with her sometime during the holidays?

I know you want her to be 100% ready, however, that may take months or even two years.

BTW, I don’t kid myself----------- My SF is not what it used to be. Myrta and I have all kinds of strange thoughts when we are in bed. But. I cannot wait forever. If I don’t get SF I will explode or something like that. If she did not give me SF I would have sent her packing to the OM a long time ago. At some point you have to put your foot down. Like you said in a prior post. You are not the one who had the affair. Why must we do all the work. Sorry, if I am sounding like Lemon man--------- But enough is enough.

buttercup,--it's good to hear from somebody. i have been sitting around watching the kids play ps2 and thinking about talking to my wife later. for some reason, i want toask her about contact again, but i really don't think there has been any. i think she needs more time, but i don,t know.we are getting along ok,it just seems like we could be farther along. i think her w/drawal could be longer/stronger because she is not generally a impulsive person. she obviously was pretty attached to OM.i just want/need her to be able to make a commitment to our M. but as i said earlier, would she be talking about us selling here and buying a new house if she didn't plan on us being together? maybe sub-consciously? i know i need to take things slow, but it is getting hard. i know the season is hard, so i have been telling myself to be patient longer and see what the new year brings. i couldn't doit w/out you guys' support. do you have the eye-toy for ps2? the one with the camera on your t.v. , you see yourself on screen and they have different games. anyway, it is quite humorous to watch the kids do kung-fu. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> in fact, behind me right now, 13 y.o.d just started that game.tomorrow, we video tape <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> thanks for being there, i assume from the time you post, you are out east? i am off work until jan 4, so i will be off and on all the time this week between errands and girls b-ball practice. i am also a coach, and i will start coaching son's 1st grade team in mid jan. that will be a blast. last fall i coached a high school varsity girls team, so this will be back to the basics. i ask my wife to be my assistant coach, she thought i was kidding, but i wasn't. it would be time together, plus at that age, you need some srowd control. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> anyway,sorry for rambling,...arjdad

Stanley,

I'm hijacking here for a second (sorry, arjdad!). Where's a 2x4 when I need it?? OMG, I can't believe what you said. First of all, my H has been patient and wonderful about waiting for *me* to be ready to have sex with him. He didn't want to keep pressuring me, and our MC agreed it would be best. The MC said "up to a year" would be appropriate, and whenever I felt like initiating it, that would be fine. Worked so far!

I don't know what your reason is for sounding so down today, Stanley, but from all posts here, it sounds like you both have been doing all you could to repair and REBUILD your M! Sounds like you've both done a wonderful job too. Myrta gave you everything that you needed to be convinced how much she still cares.

She's not dreaming of the FOM! She wants to be with you! While this may hurt, I have to tell you that thoughts do pop into our heads about the FOM (or FOW in my case), but those thoughts are just mere concern for them. We're not dreaming of running away with them, or we would have! We're where we want to be. Stop being so insecure about it. Myrta is doing all she could to prove herself to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

CC

arjdad,

We must have been posting at the same time! Yes, I'm on the east coast too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We don't have the eye thing for the PS2. I just saw it on a commercial. Looked very cool. Maybe we'll get it this week! I should be doing the DDR tonight, after all the holiday snacks! LOL.

About your W, I'd say that you're doing great. I can understand your wanting MORE intimate contact, but if your W is anything like me or like Myrta, we needed a little space. I needed more space than Myrta did, and still need some. It's much better when I reach out to him, and not the other way around. She'll come around, more and more each month. You're laying the groundwork for a solid foundation now. Concentrate on that. She talked about future plans with you, so I don't think she's going anywhere apart from the marriage. All good signs!

Take care and enjoy your holiday!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CC

buttercup,--the eye toy is also great for burning offall the good food we have been enjoying. in fact, that is kind of why we bought it. our 6 y.o. son has so much energy, he needs something physical to do when it is to cold to go outside. we didn't want the kids to just lay around playing video games. at least this way, they get some exercise.i did buy a spiderman game and a race car game. i guess you can't expect them to exercise all the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> it wears me out just watching them. i am trying to give her space, and i think it would be better for both of us if she initiated it. i guess i just worry that she never will? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i keep thinking that i am laying a good foundation, and that someday, she will appreciate it. i guess 2.5 month's is not really that long? maybe after the holidays, recovery will speed up? she did say she would go on a date this week while i am off work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> hopefully we will have a good time. sometimes it seems hard to find things to talk about other then the kids. but right now, they are about my whole life. they are the only thing that takes my mind off of our M. i hope she is not planning on leaving the M, but she will have to come around eventually.thanks for listening,arjdad......stan-ley, you have a good thing going, i hope to get there someday take care,..arjdad

arjdad,

Sounds good about the PS2 games! My son is into skateboarding and this is a good alternative until the snow is gone!

About the whole intimacy thing, I'm sure that my H would like things a whole lot more if I initiated sex regularly every night. I want it to come from my heart though, so I won't fake it anymore. It's been 7 months since D Day, and that's a long time to heal, but things aren't near perfect yet. I'm sure he knows I'm not going anywhere and he seems to be patient with me, and he's told me that he wants to be here, so I'm very lucky. We both had some changing to do in order to make the marriage better than before. So, please give your wife some breathing room, appreciate that she's affectionate with you, and know that she'll be ready for the rest relatively soon. Just let her know that you're there, waiting and ready! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Cuddling and other such intimacies are even more special, you know! Enjoy it all!

CC

Stanley--sorry if I sounded harsh to you before. I didn't mean to be! I feel badly that you're down right now, for whatever reason. I want you to get over it and appreciate Myrta's efforts. She's there, she loves you, and your marriage IS good (by all accounts!). I talk to her and what she says is encouraging. Please don't doubt her. You just need to feel sad right now, but don't let it go on for too long! Take care of yourself!

CC

buttercup,--i am ok right now with her not initiating sex. i don't want her to fake it either, i also want it to be from the heart.as far as cuddling, sometimes she acts like that is too much. she doesn't say that, it just feels that way. i know that we both have some changes to make as well, and i want the M to be better then before.any suggestions on how i can let her know that i will be here ready and willing whenever she is without seeming pushy? if i don't initiate, we don't cuddle or kiss or anything very often right now. do you think that is "normal" after only 2.5 month's? and should i back off and not initiate anything for a while? kind of play hard to get? thats hard to do, because i am afraid she will like it and never come around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> hopefully, i am just being paranoid. i am trying to just take one day at a time, and not expect to much. easier said then done <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> thanks for your help and encouragement, arjdad.................................stan-ley, i like hearing your thoughts and concerns as well, who knows, maybe in a couple of month's, i may be saying the same thing. i hope you and myrta have a better day tomorrow, take care,...arjdad

Arj:

I think sex is very important in a marriage. My wife and I do great when we have SF with regularity. This is the way it has been from day one.

I made a crucial mistake when I told my wife “I will wait for you to initiate”. I became passive and slowly adapted to a much lower frequency of SF----- bad mistake!

If I had put my foot down I might have stopped the affair much sooner or perhaps my unwillingness to disconnect myself emotionally would have been a hindrance to the progression of the affair. Instead I became passive and accepted everything. I also became distant because she was distant (a normal human response).

arjdad,

My H is very verbal about his feelings regarding sex. He'll say that he wants it. He hasn't said it in a while though, but I know how he feels. If you can, I'd just tell her that you'll give her space and wait for her to initiate, but that you want to have a full relationship with her again when she's ready. I'd give a time limit too, to be realistic. I'd say, "If things aren't back to normal in 4 months, then we have to re-evaluate the marriage". That's what the MC said to H and I. She's got to know that you won't be around waiting forever!

Stanley,
Hope you're feeling better this morning. Just wanted to add that during my A, H and I were having regular sex, often. Toward the end of the A, I didn't want to have sex with him anymore, but I obliged whenever he wanted it. Didn't make us any closer. I STILL think that when you both want to do it, and it's done with passion and feeling, that's great. If you're both not in that place and you force it, even to hope it becomes routine, that's not for me. H has been patient enough to wait each time til I'm ready, and I'm grateful for that. I kind of feel like a victim (I know--I'll get hit with 2x4's for being a FWW and saying that!!), and I'm hesitant to enter back into a life filled with lots of sex. Maybe that will change, but for now, slow and steady is my tune!

CC