Okay, I know everyone is different and every sitch is different. And there are many variables to this thing we call LOVE. I would appreciate some insight and some thoughts and maybe 2x4's if needed.

I'm wondering though for those that eventually D'd. How did you know that it was over for you, this is ruling out how the WS feels about you, how did you know that your love was gone? This is me soul-searching here, not worrying too much about whether WW loves me or not. I have the sickening feeling that I no longer love my WW. I have never believed in the idea of "falling out of love". To me Love is not the emotions, that flow and ebb, that is a normal part of an M. Marriages take persistent, constent monitoring to make sure that the fire is always buring. Love to me has been the commitment that you make to another person the family. Actions speak louder than words to me. I think that people throw the word LOVE around way to much. Too me the word love is very special.

In my sitch I don't know if I have any love left for my WW. I think that I've been beaten down so much during the last 3-4 months. Of course if you think about it my M hasn't been that great before Dday. I have some feelings for her, I don't know if it's remorse, regret, sympathy, or love. I have never been very emotional, of course I have been affectionate, romantic and loving to my W before her A. But I wouldn't say that I was ruled by my emotions. I guess I need a little help in sorting out my feelings during my present crisis. Dday has only been about 3 months away now... and I hate to think that it only took that amount of time for me to throw in the towel. To me Love is/was forever. And now I'm doubting it.

Thanks in advance, Native

native, the opposite of love is indifference.

When your wife no longer hurts and disappoints you, when her actions don't cause you pain, when her POSITIVE actions no longer give you hope..when they do not affect you in any way...then you will know your love is gone.

Talk to believer about this. This is something she has gone through and is in this state now. It took her a long time, though.

Native,

I have never met a single person who D'd because the love went away.

Most people who have D'd have done so with great pain and much regret.

People who wait to *feel* like doing something before they act..are using the same mechanism as the WS who can not or will not break the affair cycle because it doesn't feel good. How many posts have you read expressing in effect "I wish I could just get mad enough to do something" not seeing the inherant flaw in that argument..as soon as the anger subsides..so then does the conviction.

A person makes a choice..based on what they KNOW to be true, and what they are willing to invest in and embrace. And what they can not accept. Decisions are based on TRUTH/FACT not feelings/sentiment.

If your actions and your standards/truths are in agreement..then you will regret very little although your decisions may pain you much.

Noodle

In my case, at least, I would not qualify it as "my love was gone". Quite the contrary, I still love her, and care for her very, very much.

What WAS gone, however, was the possibility of her re-comitting to the marriage and to me, and her giving up the OM, the secrets and the lies...and that being the case after almost 2 years since DDay...

I agree with some of the others...my divorce didn't happen because my love was gone. It happened because I was afraid that he could destroy me financially (XH is an alcoholic and is making some very poor choices) and because my HOPE had pretty much gone that he was going to turn things around.

Love for me is more than a warm, fuzzy feeling. It is a feeling of sorts--but hard to describe. It's this thing that makes me want the best for the person, to see them succeed in life and be happy. No matter what happens with my XH, it's hard for me to believe that I'll ever wish utter doom and destruction on him, though I do admit I don't wish him to have a happy relationship with OW. I still find myself wishing there was some way I could help him. I guess this means I haven't hit the "indifference" point yet either.

What I have reached--finally--is the point where I know there isn't anything I can do to help him besides pray. This helped me to let go despite the love that I still feel.

LL

Maybe trying to come up with an answer you feel you need right now isn't the best way...

Maybe...if you're not sure... give it, and yourself, more time.

native -

Sorry you are finding yourself at this point. But you will probably go on and on loving your wife. I think that is normal.

I have continued loving my WH for almost 2 years since D-day. But you know what? The love finally is extinguished. After many, many lies, you keep trying and trying. But if the WS is not willing to do anything to save the marriage, you finally just run out of love.

My WH and I were best friends and soulmates. Now I have no feelings for him. He is no longer the man I loved. I don't hate him. I wouldn't want him for a friend. I don't wish him or OW harm. Mainly I just prefer not to hear from him or talk to him. He is out of my life.

We still have to go through the D thing. I wish that was over too.

Thanks everyone for posting. Maybe this question is in the philisophical realm, maybe I'm not really looking for an answer, just some experiences of older/wiser people here on the board.

Maddyk:When your wife no longer hurts and disappoints you, when her actions don't cause you pain, when her POSITIVE actions no longer give you hope..when they do not affect you in any way...then you will know your love is gone

Thanks Maddyk, I believe I'm at this place. Although I don't know if it is because God is giving me strength/grace. Or if it's because I've become very good at detaching (I've always picked new things up quickly... sucks this had to be a new skill for me).

Noodle:A person makes a choice..based on what they KNOW to be true, and what they are willing to invest in and embrace. And what they can not accept. Decisions are based on TRUTH/FACT not feelings/sentiment

Noodle, this is exactly true. This reply takes the WS out of the question and deals strictly with what oneself can deal with. However just as no one has ever divorced because the love was gone, the inverse is true. There are not that many people that have married with no love or feelings. Now you have to take this in context, I'm talking about conventional marriages between two consenting adults. You cannot compare this to different countries/cultures where arranged marriages exist. I have always made decisions based on the facts that I have, never really an emotional guy that would make snap decisions.

Space:In my case, at least, I would not qualify it as "my love was gone". Quite the contrary, I still love her, and care for her very, very much.

Hello Space, I've never posted to you before. I think this would hold true for most BS. Although I don't know if I'd quantify the feeling as love, I'm sure that I'd care for WW. Want no harm to come to her, I still care for her now. During her A I have prayed that nothing bad would happen to her. However I do believe that God has judged her which is why she finds herself in her current crisis.

LordsLady:What I have reached--finally--is the point where I know there isn't anything I can do to help him besides pray. This helped me to let go despite the love that I still feel.

Hi LL, nice to meet you. Your sitch seems pretty obvious where there is imminent danger to you, this was obviously a good call on your part. However what happens if some day you WH does turn around?

tqt:Maybe...if you're not sure... give it, and yourself, more time.

Tqt, whats new, how is your sitch? Yes I'm just doing a little self-reflection here. As I've said before I'm not really an emotional guy, but since the A, obviously a lot of emoitions have surfaced.

Believer:I have continued loving my WH for almost 2 years since D-day. But you know what? The love finally is extinguished. After many, many lies, you keep trying and trying. But if the WS is not willing to do anything to save the marriage, you finally just run out of love.

Believer, there are some people in this world that have more of a capacity for giving love than others. 2 years is a long, long time to take what I can only assume was damage from you WH, yet you still tried. I've only been at this for 3 months, I would like to think that I still have love for my WW. Maybe I do.

So then heres another querie. If there is still love buried in the BS for the WS. No matter what the WS does (take them out of the equation), how does a BS go about finding regaining that love inside themselves. Keep in mind that the BS will probably continue to take damage from WS for the forseeable future.

Thanks, Native

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Cherished:We're now nearly completed with 5 weeks, some good and some unpleasant. Last night he called me a bully. Harley would call that a disrespectful judgement. We have a long way to go. I am hanging on, not to the remnants of love from before our wedding that finally died but to the hope that learning caring behavior will lead to feelings of care and eventually of love.

Hi Cherished, are you in 5 weeks of recovery, I couldn't gather what state you and your H are in right now. Is it a full blown Recovery? Cher, you bring up a good point in the fact that you cannot hold onto the feeling of love before or directly after the wedding. IMHO that love really isn't sustainable over a lifetime. Of course I'm not saying that there is no love, romance, fire, spark in a marriage, I'm just saying that Love is the commitment/vows that you make. One other thing that I read in your sig. You've been married for 11 years, it's 8 known 10 for me. So I would have to say that for the amount of time invested, I have to at least try to regain your love if I have indeed lost it.

I just don't know if I have lost it, or am too detached from WW (could be a form of coping so I can't be hurt anymore), although I'm not in a recovery right now so I'm still trying to figure out what I will and will not accept/invest in.

Native -

I always thought that love could overcome everything. So that was my response to my WH. But now I realize that is not true. You can only love someone so long.

For me, it was two years, with no love back from WH. I kept my hopes up for a long, long time. But finally, in the end, the lack of reciprocation takes its toll.

I hope that does not happen to you. But actually it isn't too bad, because you just won't care anymore.

Thanks Believer,

I too thought the same thing about love. In the bible there is a verse and I can't remember all of it but it gives the basic rundown of love.

Love is patient and kind, unconditional.... and some other stuff. However I think that this is God's love. We as mere humans can only aspire to this kind of love. I think we can all try, but at some point, as you can attest we fall short of that kind of love. I don't think God holds that against us. Love is like a flower, it can go without water some longer than others, but eventually without nourishment that flower will die. So maybe it's just how strong that flower/love is. I think I still love my WW, I just don't know how to go about getting it back. I don't know if I can get past her current sitch, what does that say about my love?

Native

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7

That is the verse, and no, I don't think that this applied to God's love.

I truly believe, that is the defination of love. I stuck with it for a long time, but not being perfect, gave up.

Native, maybe I missed it, did you confront your wife about the CDC letter and the possible STD's?

I don't think I'd be worried about Love right now if my wife had an STD and gave it to me.

I would stop focusing on your wife and start worrying about yourself and your kids.

I'll say a prayer for you and your children.

I was 11 yrs old when I met my xh we started dating when i was 16, married at 20, when I was 26 he left me for an OW we also have 2 girls. It KILLED a part of me but I read Love must be tough by James Dobson and worked on me. IT HURT LIKE HELL but each day got better I had days where I would miss my xh and would beg God to make it go away. But from what I've been told it's a process that needed to be gone through.

However I had my dignity and self respect and wasn't going to let him fence sit any longer, I filed and needed to close that chapter in my life. He was living with ow and her kids and had for a yr. There were times I wondered if I had found MB and did things differently if we would've stayed together but I'm happy with the way things are

7.5 yrs later I still care about him. I have lost alot of respect for him, I pity him in many ways.

I've been with my current hubby 6 yrs now and we've been married 3.5 yrs. For awhile I felt so guilty that I carried feelings for my xh around, well I have a counselor friend and she told me that unconditional love isn't something you flip a switch over it's always there you just learn to deal with it and move on with your life.

I don't know if the love ever goes away but it changes

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Thanks Believer,

I knew that verse, I just couldn't get it out of my brain there when I first thought of it. Yup that is love we can all strive for, but I think since we are human we will fall short.

Hi TA, No I haven't confronted WW yet about CDC. I didn't want to ruin holidays (is that weird, but I don't want a stain on this time of the year for the rest of my and my kids lives). I'm just being really careful and making sure what she touches and how she touches the kids. I think she has a curable STD from what she is taking but I have to wait until Monday to call the CDC office.

I'm not worried about my WW, I care about her. Thats why I've been posing the question with the WW taken out of the equation. Despite which way or where she goes, I want to know if I have lost my love.

Wow AmI, That sounds like a great story in that you were able to overcome and move on. Of course as we're going through the fire we get burned and it hurts, yet we come out tempered and stronger on the other side. I think that's where I'm at right now.

Hi Cherished, so an arranged marriage huh? There is completely no love? So your basically staying in the M because of the kids and the time your orignally invested into the M pre-A? It sounds good that you H is at least willing to do these things for you. I'm hoping that everything works out.

So some need love to have an M, others don't need love but need at least the prospect of it after a certain amount of work put into rebuilding an M. I have come to the place where I can live without my WW, and maybe there is someone out there better. Someone that will take care of me, unlike my WW has done for that past year or so. Of course I have learned a lot reading HNHN and SAA, so I can be a better H also. This is what scares me and the reason for the question. I recently found out about her STD, but that really doesn't change anything really, if anything I feel sorry for her that she's done this to herself. I've been trying to search inside myself lately to find what I want for a change. I don't know if I'm going to continue with the Plan A/B stuff anymore because I don't really think this applies to my sitch.

<small>[ December 25, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Native....love is many things to many people but two qualities must exist for love to exist irregardless of the other components that make up one's definition of love. The items I speak of are honesty and respect. Without these two things no love can endure. Most of the people here are/have suffered because one of these two things were missing from their marriage or relationship. We must also be honest with and respect ourselves if we are to survive and become capable of loving others. While we have no control on whether our spouses give us respect and honesty we can decide to give ourselves honesty and respect. Saying all that I believe love is dead when we can no longer elicit honesty and respect from our spouse and likewise reciprocate.

Cherished,

It seems that you have taken a stand against your WH. Seems as though you have called his bluff and won out. At least for now. But you have made in abundantly clear that you will no longer stand for his behavior.

This is where I'm at now with my WW, only I will be waiting till after the holidays to tell this too her. But make no mistake it will happen. I guess I'm going to continue my plan A until then.