Hey Jelly - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

You're too cool!!!

<small>[ March 01, 2005, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Jelly, I am sooo proud of you. You and Jen have brought me along to a point that maybe I am not quite a RWW (def. a FWW with a capitol F)but I am getting there. I won't feel like a R until my H forgives me. I told my H recently during one of our A talks that I own the A. I made the decision to cross that boundary. I allowed FOM into our lives. I betrayed his trust and hurt our M, our children and myself. I forgive myself and I accept God's forgiveness. I am working toward my H's forgiveness.

Love you, Jelly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey there KY!

Your post is good food for thought.

I challenge the WS's that lurk/post here to read this thread and absorb it.

We live in a society where it's very easy to place blame on other people. People get away with murder because they had a horrible childhood. They sell drugs because it's easier than working. People milk our welfare system because it's better to stay at home and watch the soaps. Sometime long ago we as a nation went from the responsible to the irresponsible. We went from accepting the consequences of our actions to justifying them, regardless of right or wrong. Of course I am generalizing but it's something that I see more and more this day and age.

I never understood the whole "blame someone else" game. Like you Jelly, OM never held a gun to my head, it was my choice to cross that line. We live in a society where we have choices - remember, God gave us free will. It's not something that we can switch on and off.

I made a huge mistake, and when I realized that it was my mistake ALONE I was able to start moving towards recovery. My dear hubby let me take on that responsiblity and helped me shoulder it. He didn't let me wallow in my sorrow though thank goodness!

Yes, recovery can't begin until one accepts the responsiblity for their actions. But once they do - what a great learning experience recovery can be!

Edited for typo's - grrrr...

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: chackler ]</small>

Oh well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sent a copy to her.

She doesn't get it (or doesn't take it in the spirit it was given) OR something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Guess things will be at least a bit "tense" around here tonight.

"Oh why do I even Bother???"
(can ya tell me?...and if its only for luv...what a dope I must Be)

However, I'm still Glad that at least YOU get it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (and some others too).

I'll take some consolation in that.

Keep making Progress.....sorry I can't join ya. sheesh

There was a thread a while back that asked BS's how much (if any) blame they laid on the OP. It was suprising to see how many BS's refuse to hold their WS 100% accountable. Perhaps there is some measure of spousal protection happening there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will NOT give OM any credit in my choice to have an A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For the WS to completely accept accountability and work through the consequences, the BS needs to get with the program too by allowing and supporting the WS's epiphany that they are 100% accountable for their choice to have an A.

KY,

yes, you are so right!

I'm with FF though, its very hard to not flinch at least a little bit when I read this. Not because its not true, but because of the huge pool of guilt and lack of self-respect that I've been struggling out of for many months now.
I think being stuck in the guilt and regret is actually also more self indulgence. I'm moving on, I'm going to be proactive about fixing my problems and building a bright future.

kyellow4,
This is a great thread. I am very proud of you for your ownership!

This really intrigues me as recently it dawned on me that maybe this is why H and I are not really in recovery. I have been tossing it around in my head...and came up with the fact that he has not forgiven himself for the A's (yes 3) and i'm not so sure I have forgiven him either.
I feel like he needs to forgive himself and ask my forgiveness before we can start. I know that I need that. If only I knew how to approach him about it. I honestly don't know how <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

Pep said in a thread recently (I have it printed out) something about the BS and forgiving. She stated that the BS needs to know the whole story (or whatever they need) before they can forgive, otherwise the BS doesn't know what they are forgiving. That is so true.

And, it fits in with ownership. That is really the word I have been looking for in this. I kept saying to myself that H wasn't taking responsibility but couldn't really make sense of that. However, ownership is a great word for it. And I know he doesn't own it 100%. If he did I think he would be in IC, MC, anything to "fix" it. But, he's not. He tends to keep it all inside so as not to hurt anyone or himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> anymore.

One more thing to think about while in limbo...wishing things were better than they are.

Thank you, ky

Ky:

Very awesome post lady!

Respect for ourselves guides our morals; respect for others guides our behavior.

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

KY (I feel funny writing those initials! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Great post. As a FWW (nearly RWW), it moved me. I must say that I played the victim, blaming the OW on the hurt that I felt. I owned it, partially, but focused on how much she hurt me. I couldn't even see past my own pain to realize the pain I put my H and children through, for a long, long time!

Now I definitely own the A. I know that *I* crossed that line with her, on my own accord. She didn't lure me into it. I didn't lure her either. We both were 100% each accountable. In my recovery I picked through my entire relationship with her, and I also tried to go back to my state of mind right before the A, so that I'll never make that mistake again. I tried to think of how I could have been so vulnerable, yet cocky enough to step over those boundaries!

Thanks for your post. I'm happy that you've come so far. It's inspirational. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CC

Jelly, hon, you know you rock and you know you're the Queen.

Do you know (well, yes you probably do) how many "Yes, but's" I used after d-day and I've used on this board.

All the Yes, but family tragedy, yes but was in bad place, yes but blah blah blah.

The biggest yes but. I had unfinished business with the OM. Excuuuuse me, that's some sort of justification. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (BTW that was me talking to myself and being extremely sarcastic).

Every time I go to write something like that on MB I think, Rob had all the same yes buts I had but he would never have done what I did.

Your post is SO true it's frightening. The only accountability is mine and it's the thing I keep coming up against whenever I feel a "yes, but" coming on. It just doesn't add up and it doesn't add up because there are no "yes buts" there's only a choice I made.

Jen (RWW) yay.

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ. ]</small>

kyellow - wish I could convince my wife to read your post. I DID take responsibility for my affair, and have taken precautions to remove myself from any future possibilities (as best I can).

Thank you thank you thank you

David

Outstanding post.

No sentiment could be more helpfull to WS and BS alike simultaneously.

I think, reading this helps me to better understand your previous post re casting off the title.

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kyellow4:
<strong> Time to own it, time to claim responsibility, time to hold yourself accountable!!!!!!

No more, I was manipulated.

No more, I was taken advantage of.

No more, I was lonely.

No more, I was mistreated.

No more, my needs were not being met.

Stop playing the victim!!!!!!!! Once you take responsibility for your choices you can move on to recovery. If you are still feeling justified, you can not move ahead.

I will NOT give OM any credit in my choice to have an A. It was my choice, he did not have a gun to my head, I'm smarter than his smooth talk, I'm smarter than his manipulation, he did not win me over. I chose it, because of who I was. Not because of who he was. Would I chose it again, not on your life!!!

I am owning my Affair. I am taking responsibility for it. It was ME, not my H's neglect, not OM, it was ME!!!!!!!!!!

I'm asking all other WS, to claim responsibility, to hold yourself accountable, to know that it was all YOU, and move on to working on you, to make sure this doesn't happen again. Find out why you chose to have an A, and improve on yourself.

Rebuild yourself and your M. Stand up and say,"I" made a mistake, I am sorry, and I will lead my life differently so I do not repeat history.

When you have taking control, when you have stopped pointing the finger, when you own it, you can then move on from it. I really feel this is a pivotal step to recovering a better you and a better Marriage.

Once I stopped being the victim of my H's past behavior, and of the OM's lure, I was able to really embrace my mistake, and work through it, and see me for who I was at the time. I was able to see how my character flaws played such a huge part in my choice to have this A.

I'm in no way saying be proud of what you did. Just in case somebody misunderstands me. I'm just saying, admit your failures, admit it was you and your choice alone, admit there is something about you, that needs to be improved.

No more victims, WS & FWS. It was a very bad choice we made, but it was our choice, stand up and claim it.

I had an Affair because of my character flaws, and I'm taking steps everyday to create a better me for myself and for my H, so our marriage can be blissful and affair proof.

BS, step aside and allow them to take full responsibilty for this. I know it is less painful to think OP had control, your S failed you, it is they who need to be held acountable.

Stepping down off my soapbox.

Recovered wife, KY </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think we just found our postergirl for the recovered WS! kyellow4 I applaud you. It's a shame that other WS's don't see this and absorb it. I would venture a guess that if any WS were to read this while still in the fog it would have little impact on them.

Interesting - this post! Last night I remembered a certain look on WXW's from several months ago when she would momentarily peek out of the fog. She was justifying this & that, blaming me for this & that, and so on. I just stopped, walked over to her - grabbed her arms and said: "I am 50% responsible for the problems in our marriage. However; I have 0% responsibility for this affair. I did not and do not deserve what you are doing!" This happened about 3 times. Each time, her expression would show that she was about to cry. But instead she would dip back into the fog and become self-righteous again - where she remains today.

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Last night I heard from my WH that what he did he was sorry for -that he knows he deceived me - that he was wrong - he feels awful - he seems so down and sorry. I told him again I would never do that to you. I told him I am at fault for some of our problems. He responded no you are not I am 100% at fault. He hugged me and kissed me. Hoping this is true and going to see where it takes me.

Cowboy, It was much easier for my H to forgive me, than I myself, but I was in a pity party, once I stepped out of that mode, I could forgive myself.

Top Rope, thanks and truly sorry she is not ready yet.

Pep, okay, asked my 8yo, he filled me in, but I'm still going to wear a mask and tights. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RIF, you too.

Faith, thank you, I'm here for you for anything.

Chackler said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"People get away with murder because they had a horrible childhood."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dang it, I forgot, this is all my mother's fault. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> j/k I'm still learning, and eagerly so, I really want to be the best I can be, for myself and for my H.

BA said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "For the WS to completely accept accountability and work through the consequences, the BS needs to get with the program too by allowing and supporting the WS's epiphany that they are 100% accountable for their choice to have an A."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really feel this hinders the WS progress to recovery, when the BS protects themselves and the WS, by thinking the OP is at fault. Allow the WS to claim totally responsibility for their mistake, it isn't until then that they can truly face the consequences and improve. BS allow the justification by doing this. (not saying this is true for ALL cases)

Smur, this is very interesting to me, you said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Not because its not true, but because of the huge pool of guilt and lack of self-respect that I've been struggling out of for many months now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For me coming to this conclusion, has helped me gain self respect, I've become more respectable now that I'm holding myself accountable. Don't be afraid, embrace your mistake, take charge of it, own it, and recover.

MandL, print this out and read it with your H, maybe he can wrap his mind around it and you can move onto a full recovery. I have my fingers crossed for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Maddy, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Fish, I think that is a great way to approach your W. It is truly hard to grasp but when she does, it will be wonderful for the both of you.

Kiwi, you have been a great source of inspiration to me.

ButterCup </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> KY (I feel funny writing those initials! )
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You could always call me Jelly, my friends do.

David, not sure of your sit. but glad you have claimed responsibility.

Noodle, I'm glad you understand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MIF, thank you kind sir. Thank you.

Realtor, happy dance, happy dance.

I don't ever want to make this same mistake again, I have morals, I'm a Godly woman, now I'm building my character so I can stand and say with confidence, I will never have an AFFAIR!!!!!

Thank you all for your post. I believe we have much to learn from each other. I'm very willing to give, I have received so much from all of you, I thank you for the free therapy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KY

<small>[ February 02, 2005, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]</small>

Jelly,

I do get it....I understand what you're saying, and I am with you on it! I had quit blaming OM and RH a LONG time ago, which is what you're saying....stop placing blame where it doesn't belong.

Geez, I feel stupid! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NOW

To be honest notonlywords I didn't get it either but then I started thinking about all the people that pass blame onto others - it's just all over the place. So sad, the WS's that do that have little to no chance of fully recovering. IMVHO of course!