I am currently in an intensive outpatient psych program, today I went into it, not really wanting to be there, because I felt pretty good. It's easy to go when I feel crappy, but when I feel good it's harder. So I go in there today, no agenda...thinking..pffffft, what am I even gonna say, I'm there for like 5 1/2 hours, and I hadn't a clue what I was gonna talk about.

So, the 1st group was a music group, you just pick a CD, tell why you picked it, listen to it...tell how you felt, etc. Well I picked no CD today, I left it up to everyone else (There's never enough time for everyone's CD) I listened to everyone elses CD's and they were good, and I liked hearing them talk about their reasons, but I had none.

2nd group was "Forgiveness" well I only got through like 10 minutes of that group and my individual counselor pulled me out (they do that about once a week to check on your progress) I talked to her and told here that I'm less and less angry everyday, that I know I'd come a long way, that I no longer feel suicidal/homocidal..etc. She said "Well that's good...is there any reason to keep you?" I said "Well...I don't know" I thought about it for a minute, and said "Well you know I really focused on my WH, I mean he was my universe, my entire life revolved around him.....and without him..I'm not sure who I am" She asked some more probing questions, and before I know it, I'm crying "arrrrgh, I hate that" (I know it's good, but I still hate it). So she tells me that I should bring that up in 'process group' which is a group at the end of the day where you tell what you think you've done that day, etc.

So I bring up that I don't think I know who I am....and somehow, not sure how it leads to how emotionally unavailable I am...and it's true I guess, I never thought that about myself, but I guess you can't really know yourself if you don't have intimacy with anyone. I never really thought about it, but I sorta do keep everyone at arms length, even WH. I love him, don't get me wrong. I love that man with every fiber of my being, but there is a difference in what I feel and what I show......I don't think he probably felt an intimate connection to me. I don't think he knows my soul......and that's really really sad. The man I'm in love with, that I've been with for 12 years, wouldn't have any idea if he were my soulmate, I've never let him that close and that probably led to me not knowing his either....I don't know his secret fears or anything like that. I know his past, I know his present, but I don't know him inside and out, and I never felt the need to.

Now, I know his pattern, so I can usually predict what he's going to do, and being with someone for 12 years, I have seen enough of him to know how he's likely to react to something.

I guess that's why when he's winging this WS fog crap at me, like telling me "I was bored...You're BORING" as a reason for his affair, it bounces right off me, I don't believe it for a second, not because it's fog, but because I've got this armor....you can't get around, some things get through....his affair got thru with a fierceness, but it takes something astronomical to do it.

So while taking this incredibly painful emotional inventory today....I started thinking....DUH, the OW is probably an open friggen book in comparison to me...who wouldn't be? So, although I don't take responsibility for his actions, I do see at least where he's coming from........(not that he's told me any of this), how could he be truly happy with me...he doesn't really know me. So he was completely thrown by my reaction to this....I don't react to anything this way, I might bully you, but you won't get to me. I might get angry...but I don't get hurt. I am the one that tells you it's going to be alright!! Why is going to be alright?!? Because I can't have it any other way.

Which brings me to the title of this post, a Dr.Phil tag line: "So how's that workin' for ya?" Well.....frankly, IT'S NOT.

-Caren

Hmmm this is OT, but my horoscope seems so topical lately...lol, just thought I'd post today's:

Caren,
You could inadvertently mislead others today, but they will probably go along with your schemes no matter what. It seems as if they are encouraging you -- and maybe they are. But it's more like the blind leading the blind. This is not as bad as it sounds. You are being guided by a higher force. You will be rewarded by your properly placed trust.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong><snip>
So I bring up that I don't think I know who I am....and somehow, not sure how it leads to how emotionally unavailable I am...and it's true I guess, I never thought that about myself, but I guess you can't really know yourself if you don't have intimacy with anyone. I never really thought about it, but I sorta do keep everyone at arms length, even WH. I love him, don't get me wrong. I love that man with every fiber of my being, but there is a difference in what I feel and what I show......I don't think he probably felt an intimate connection to me. I don't think he knows my soul......and that's really really sad. The man I'm in love with, that I've been with for 12 years, wouldn't have any idea if he were my soulmate, I've never let him that close and that probably led to me not knowing his either....I don't know his secret fears or anything like that. I know his past, I know his present, but I don't know him inside and out, and I never felt the need to.

<snip>
So while taking this incredibly painful emotional inventory today....I started thinking....DUH, the OW is probably an open friggen book in comparison to me...who wouldn't be? So, although I don't take responsibility for his actions, I do see at least where he's coming from........(not that he's told me any of this), how could he be truly happy with me...he doesn't really know me. So he was completely thrown by my reaction to this....I don't react to anything this way, I might bully you, but you won't get to me. I might get angry...but I don't get hurt. I am the one that tells you it's going to be alright!! Why is going to be alright?!? Because I can't have it any other way.

Which brings me to the title of this post, a Dr.Phil tag line: "So how's that workin' for ya?" Well.....frankly, IT'S NOT.

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, Caren. I read the above quoted parts and think I could have written that about myself and current situation. My WW/STBXW has asked me over the years what it was I wanted from her, but I could never really say. I didn't know what I wanted, because I didn't/don't know myself. My counsellor told me last week to stop making my marriage what defines me and make saving my marriage the desired result, but not the absolute be all end all because it doesn't look like it will be saved. He's just trying to help me see the reality of my sitch and get over the hurt.

I know my WW/STBXW's OM must be an open book with her. I mean the amount of time they spend on the phone is unreal.

How's that workin' for me? It's not!

MIF?

Ken-

Maybe we should work on our anti-social personalities LOL!!!

All kidding aside, I'm not sure how to BE emotionally available. I can look at the list of EN's and I can tell you what my WH's are....but I can't tell you mine...sound familiar?

I think that is probably part of the problem....so I am going to attempt to make those intimate connections. Don't know if I'll try it out on WH first, not sure how to go about this. I am virtually impenetrable, even to myself...if I can't get in, how's anyone else gonna? Sheesh, I'm so screwed up.

I guess a lot of it is, I don't want to be vulnerable, I don't want to open up and get hurt, this way I usually don't get hurt...but again...It's not working, therefore something's gotta give. So as scary as it is, I'm gonna give it a shot, I'm thinking it couldn't hurt much worse than it does now.

I'm finally beginning to feel a little like myself again, I am renergized and ready to focus this microscope I have everyone else under on me.

-Caren

Yep, I put up a shield to protect myself from being hurt and I still got hurt. So how's that workin' for ya? IT's NOT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Stupid Shields!!!! What's the point of having a shield if it doesn't work LMFAO

Well....you know Ken, the thing about these shields is, they may not let people know what we are feeling, but we ARE feeling....so all it is really is just a scrambler. Confusing our loved ones into thinking that we're made of stone, and making us think we are invincible, and as we've discovered the hard way.......invincible, not so much.

I suppose I found something noble in thinking that I could contain the pain, not let myself 'appear' vulnerable, but really...just a big act I guess (I'm a fantastic actress...cuz I convinced myself).

So shields to prevent pain that apparently just keep out little pains and let the fricken huge ones in, and then magnify them times 1000....how's that working for ya??? Yeah, not so much.

-Caren

Caren, quick question.

How do these intensive sessions make you feel? I'm really just curious in a general sort of way.

Do you feel better after them? Drained, but more at peace? Do you feel better about life in general?

And more specifically to you...have they focused on how you tend to REACT to things, rather than making a plan and sticking to it? A lot of the anger I used to see with you is gone, but I sense it bubbling right beneath the surface. I'm curious as to how much you're stuffing it rather than dealing with it? And if you feel that having a plan and sticking to it tends to lessen your feelings of anger and REaction?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Tell me to butt out if I'm being too nosy!

LOL Aislinn, I don't mind. I usually have a wicked emotional hangover. Today on my way home I cried like 10 times, but only for a few seconds, it was very strange.

You can see the anger bubbling underneath...damn it, I thought I had a lid on that..lol, no you're right, sometimes it's as close as it ever was, but the majority of the time it is much less intense, AND I do tend to sort it out instead of acting on it. Actually I talked to the counselor about this very thing today, she said you can't help how you 'react' because that happens instantly, it's what you do with it after your initial reaction that's important. I was stuffing it, I will have to admit, but now I think about it....I think okay, so beating the OW to a bloody pulp is really not going to change anything, it's just gonna get me in jail, in which case I will recycle my anger, because of course that would be the OW's fault too....and it would just get me no where. So I guess that's dealing with it.

I also have taken a few of the weights off of the OW's side of the fault scale, it's beginning to even out.....it was weighing heavily on her side.....now I can see, I'm sure she's not as horrible as I make her out to be, I mean she must have some redeeming quality, right? I mean I'm sure her Mom likes her. I don't happen to care for her, but I can see that maybe there's some reason for her to be alive, maybe she's just my test, I can't be irate with a test, it's just something I am being measured against.....and when it comes down to it,

She will be weighed
She will be measured
And she will be found wanting.....

-Caren

P.S.-I actually sorta pity her now.....strange, just found that emotion. But it's pitiful to me that she would stoop to dating someone else's H, ya know?

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Caren, she does not necessarily have any redeeming qualities..or maybe she did and just made some really bad choices. None of that is your problem, though. The key here is that your h made choices too.

That's interesting to read about the therapy, hope you'll keep us updated.

And not reacting to anger at the INSTANT is a good step forward, IMO.

CAREN !!!!! YES I AM YELLING AT YOU !!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do NOT quit therapy girl.

Therapy is gonna allow you to lower your shield ... slowly.

Underneath your "crazy" exterior is someone very interesting... and I for one, cannot wait to meet her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You have some common traits with FinallyLearning ... a very high protective wall ... and the wall is making YOU miserable but you are not sure if there is any "self" outside your wall...

there is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your inventory was awesome.... keep it up.

Tears are not blood Caren... cry at will. You've got years of un-cried tears inside that you need to let go of.

This is good.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:

P.S.-I actually sorta pity her now.....strange, just found that emotion. But it's pitiful to me that she would stoop to dating someone else's H, ya know? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren .... who cares about her ????

I don't give a rat'sass ... so drop all the garbage about OW ... NO ONE CARES ...

YOU are waaaaay more interesting.

Talk about yourself.

Pep (a reallpainintheass )

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Thank you...it does feel good, confusing...but good, I am finally taking some of the focus off of my WH...and focusing on me...all I've thought about all night is how on earth I'm gonna figure this out, I don't even know where to start, but just a month ago focusing on myself was the scariest thing in the world.

I actually became suicidal when I thought there was NO OW. On New Years Eve my WH wasn't with the OW, and then I started thinking OMG....he's been telling the truth, there is no OW, that must mean it's me.......enter out of control tailspin.

So I've come from that to where I am at the present. I think I'll take another look at the EN list, I don't know what I'll find there...but I don't know where to start this. Introspection is not really my forte.

You know, I noticed after I left therapy today...I walked outside and almost felt naked. Normally I have a stance when I'm walking, etc, that is VERY confidant, nobody messes with me, I don't look the part....I'm NEVER scared of anyone (Even people that I should be scared of)...but today, I noticed when I walked outside...I was a little apprehensive. I kinda shook it off, and thought.....what's wrong? Apparently the wall was down a little. I, of course, promptly put it back up....at least until I got into my car...but it was forced, not 2nd nature...weird.

-Caren

***Side note, today one of the women were *graduating* (sort of) from the program, and they make a big to do about it...anyway, this girl came into the room I was in, talking to another patient and she walked in and told her that she'd miss her, etc and wanted a hug, so the lady stands up and hugs her. The girl that was graduating turned to me and pointed and said "It was nice to meet you" I said, "Yep, good luck". Okay...now I did not want a hug from this person I barely know....not the point, I realized....I'm not approachable, that girl didn't even consider hugging me. I just noticed the difference and made a note of it.

<small>[ February 03, 2005, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Caren,
Ya know how they say you always regret not saying what you wanted to say, when you had the chance?

Well... I've been reading your "stuff" with great interest... and I always look forward to what you have to say.

Ya know why? Because, like Pep said, you are interesting (in a really great way), and you're also --- it's like it jumps off the damn screen! --- warm, and real, and genuine, and a really nice person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Hope I didn't embarrass you... On the other hand, if I did, I'll get over it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep-

LOL, you aren't a pain in the [censored]. I'm glad you think there's someone interesting under all this "crazy" LOL, I sure hope there is....hope the crazy isn't what made me interesting.

tqt-

Thank you also, it is a little embarrassing, I don't take compliments well, dunno why, never have, but I appreciate the sentiment.

I guess I'll just keep going to therapy, keep working. The counselors told me yesterday "You worked really hard today...." I don't know about that, I mean I tried, but I don't feel like I really got anywhere. I know I identified the problem, but now what? I have no idea how to fix said problem.

-Caren

UGH, I was doing so well, then on the way home my daughter called me and told me that WH wasn't at work today, that he took a day off and she'd tried to reach him at home and on his cell but he wasn't answering. I said "OK honey, I'll talk to you about it when I get home" (grrrrr it pisses me off, he needs to answer the damn phone for her) but I let it slide.

Then I get here and my neighbor comes over and says "I saw WH's car today, he was at the chinese restaurant about 1:30" I said "Okay...he's allowed to eat lunch..." But I was doing a slow burn...A) his dumb [censored] NEVER took a day off for me and B) We've never gone to that restaurant, but now he can go? Gawd it steams me. I try so hard to not "investigate" things anymore, I don't drive by his house, I don't do any of that, in fact I didn't talk to him at all yesterday, partially because I felt so raw after therapy I didn't know what I'd say, and he didn't ask to talk to me either, which is fine, I'm sure he's just testing either me or him....maybe seeing if I'd call him...I didn't, screw that. He'll inevitably call today, he always does.....but I know that the reason he didn't call me 30 times like he usually does is because he was with HER, apparently she's an apt substitute.

What am I supposed to do? I go around and try so hard to make it about me, but I have all these outside influences throwing him in the middle of my day and I can't help but think about it, I mean I stop myself, but it's there....I can't help what I'm thinking.

It makes me want to scream.

-Caren

Caren - You are doing really well. I was much like you - there was NO me. All my married life I worked, took care of kids, and my husband.

When you get to know yourself and what YOU like, it feels wonderful. Nowdays, my WH and OW don't even cross my mind. You will get there too.

Thank you believer...but I can't help but come back to what the desired result in all this is. I DO want to find out who I am, I need to....but at the end of all this soul searching, I want to be able to say that I saved my marriage. Not that I can rub his nose in it, not so I can say "See how noble and forgiving I am, aren't you lucky?" I want to save it for me. I love this man, and I don't believe that divorce is the answer EVER! So I honestly don't know if him not crossing my mind is ever gonna happen.

-Caren