I was going to write this just to BHINWI but decided to have it a new topic for all.

Dear BH
Thanks for the email offer but I will just write you right here... My H would not like me emailing another man! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I agree crying is a good, however, I also feel after awhile we have to RISE ABOVE the tears and not go there; tell ourselves we will wait until a certain time, maybe 10 mins. on Mon, Wed and Fri! (It really can be done.)
There was a movie called "I'll cry tomorrow".

I know for me, I was crying so much I wondered if my face would have that permanent screwed up look...Watch yourself cry in the mirror sometime, it's not a good sight to see.
I finally told myself enough of this.
I look prettier when I smile and the crying almost constantly whenever I was alone, was getting me down.

What I am going to say now, is a little off the wall but I believe it is true and may work in many instances to help save a drowning marriage.

It seems for many of us betrayed spouses, that from the very moment of discovering that our mates were involved with someone else, we no longer took them for granted!

I think the fear of losing them was like a GIANT WAKE-UP call.

My H & my marriage (35 years) changed from HO HUM to I couldn't get enough of jumping his bones!~lol~I saw him as exciting and I wanted him for keeps. (I looked at him totally differently after I found out about his A with this young lady...My feelings for him were like they were when we first fell in love.) By the way, she 'dumped' him and found a single man she ended up marrying....

Following is the site where a lady named Carol posted how she got her wandering husband back.
I like how she did it because she made her H see that he could lose her! Opened his eyes to the possiblility.
It was like HIS wake-up call.

I am NOT telling you to go out and get another woman to make your wife jealous...This lady did it, without really seeing someone else.

It may seem like a GAME but if it works, that's great!..We have to look beyond the NOW, to further down the road...I think it is called looking at the BIG PICTURE!
Plan A and Plan B are a bit of a manipulative game also...(But GOOD PLANS.)

Read this and let me know what you think; if you think playing 'this game' might make your wife see how much she would NOT want to lose you to the arms of another woman."

Carol's Story

Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S. This message is for BS, either man or woman, it works the same....How many of you also discovered this 180 degree U Turn with your feelings for you spouse after discovering the A?
(A renewed love and caring like when you were newly married?)

Edited to correct the spelling of: manipulative <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

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<small>[ February 24, 2005, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Julie,
Wow, what a story! Actually my WS has asked me before what I am doing. I dropped the kids off last week and had a new sweater and pants on and she asked where I was going. I just said home. (I should have said out!)

I love that story and I have someone that would be more than happy to be my "phantom" other woman (by brother!!!).

I would like to hear more opinions. Thank you Julie!

Keith

Healthy relationships must have a bit of jealousy in them.

If there is no jealousy whatsoever....that`s a bad sign.

When you are a bit jealous of your spouse you are acknowledging to yourself that your spouse has some value to you. You don`t want anyone to steal them away.

I think I made the mistake that many other spouses have...of bending over backwards NOT to make my H jealous.

And because of that I think he "forgot" how much he valued me. Because he never had to worry about losing me I wasn`t worth as much.

After we got married I became a SAHM. I gained weight. During those years I was not at my best.

However H had a friend who was also a co-worker. This man was single. We would see him out socially and invite him to our home. I was NEVER alone with him...but whenever he was around I would have long conversations with him about travel...current events..politics ect...he is very intelligent and a great conversationalist.

Then one day this man meets up with H at work....he`s got flowers in his hand...he gives to H and says "These are for your W"

H does NOT cram the flowers down his throat...he comes home tells me who they are from and gives them to me.

And this happens a few times with flowers. Then one day the man says to H "Your W told me she was interested in biking...so I bought her one"

Again H does NOT cram the bike down this man`s throat...he comes home and unloads the bike.

Okay the flowers were one thing but a brand new bike????

I asked H "Don`t you find this odd???Doesn`t this bother you???

H`s answer "Why should this bother me...you wanted a bike and now you have one"

H was TOOOOOOOOOOO sure of me. He was so certain that I wasn`t going anywhere that he allowed this man to buy me the things AND H acted as the go between.

Even with this man repeatedly telling my H "You treat your W like crap and you better smarten up" H still wasn`t worried.

But I was worried that H WASN`T worried.

I knew it was bad sign.

I have learned my lesson though...I lost the weight and I am back out in the workforce. I don`t flirt but I DO let H know everytime someone hits on me. And I let my glance linger for a split second when I see an attractive man now...not because I am interested but because I want to keep H on his toes.

Another thing I did Julie is tell the kids I am thinking about buying a Corvette. I am sure that will get back to WS. (I am not buying a Corvette but maybe I will take the kids looking for one this weekend???)

This tactic works wonders in affairs where you have a WS that is either sitting on the fence and/or does not wish to leave the BS for the OP. It does not work in an exit type of affair though.

I would caution anybody using this tactic because it could easily lead a BS right into an affair unless one is extremely careful in not crossing marital boundaries [never spend time alone with OP, never confide intimate details of one's marital life with the OP, immediately end a developing friendship with an extremely attractive OP]. Also let's keep in mind that the OP is a human being and using him/her to make a WS jealous at the expense of this person [leading him/her on with flirting], is both cruel and malicious.

Do an analysis of the situation before you try this tactic and if you decide to do so, please take all precautions so it doesn't end up becoming another affair.

TMCM

That's COOL BH and definetly take the kids for a test drive in one of those Corvettes.

I liked what Daisy wrote; we need to have a little mystery to us...We need our spouses to realize if they don't shape up and treat us with the love and respect we deserve, someone will snap us up in a heartbeat!
(Well, maybe a couple heartbeats!~lol~) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Julie Jo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Totally agree, Coffeeman.

That is why BH was going to use his brother as the 'other woman'!~lol~

A female cousin, to take out for dinner and a movie, would be appropriate, also, true?

In Carol's story, there was no one else, NO OM.
Her husband in his 'guilty' mind, just thought there was...She NEVER told him there was another man in her life....She just had a mystery to her whereabouts.

He didn't NEED TO KNOW that she really didn't even go anywhere and that she was just sitting in her car looking pretty all evening! heehee

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I can't say that I totally agree with this, but I can't say that I don't either.

I also don't think that Plan A or Plan B are manipulative in any way....if they are implemented the right way.

I myself took the route of being interested in someone else.....and believe me....it had a very lasting affect on my H......but had an even longer yet worse affect on me.

The story is floating around here somewhere.....way back.

Yes....in the end it woke my H up.....but it wasn't really worth it. It had a negative affect on me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>
Also let's keep in mind that the OP is a human being and using him/her to make a WS jealous at the expense of this person [leading him/her on with flirting], is both cruel and malicious.
TMCM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this. You have to be careful of other people`s feelings.

I don`t have to use others to keep my H on his toes...I just tell H what happens to me in the course of my day. I am not a flirt and never was...but people DO flirt with me. I let H know when that happens.

In case you are wondering I never did anything to lead that man on....I never discussed my M with him. I was never alone with him...H was always within earshot. Everything he knew about my M came from my H when I wasn`t there to hear it or comment on it.

TMCM- Just what the heck is an exit affair. I know the definition, but it seems pretty phony. An exit A is used by the WS to end the M. It is a way out. If this is true, then why is it secret, why does the WS even have one. If they're done, they're done. Get out of the M and do whatever you want.

It just seems that the "exit" part becomes the excuse once the A is discovered etc. Up 'til then it is just garden variety selfishness, just like any other A. The WS becomes the X because they see that as the easiest way out once caught even thought hey may not really want to leave and give up their current life.

I also think that the WS can become convinced by outside influences that their A must have been an exit A.

Your opinion?

I would definately not use someone to get my wife back. That would be as cruel as what she has done to me. My brother would be the perfect "other woman" to call my cell and make me smile and say "Hi!! Can I call you later?". I can do that when I am picking up the kids. Also, I have a neighbor lady that loves to spend time with me (she is a lesbian) and there is no way that will develop. I may take her out for coffee, dinner, whatever. I will be upfront with her on it and she would love it. But, I would never let my WS see us together, I just want her to know that I am out.

I am going to give this some thought...

Blessed Time,

Even though I am in Plan B some of my WW's business and social friends run into her. According to them, the conversation always has at least one question of " so who is Cymanca seeing". Since she is now on her apparent OM #3, I am somewhat defuddled by these questions. Oh well, maybe I shouldn't be.

ways to create the illusion of something going on....

1. send yourself nice flowers...with a card obviously not in your hand writing...with innoculous but interesting sentiment..

a... I enjoyed talking the other evening
b... It was nice spending time with you
c. hope we can get together soon...

all signed with a single initial

out where a coming and going ws can see

if when question..

evasive tatic..
oh those
yeah pretty huh...

ask Ws about a place or restaurant you two went to...some time in the past...ask something...like..
what street was that place on....thinking about going back there...

ask about some place that is a day trip away...or even further...remember when we went to_______ was that the place with the good icecream shop...was thinking of someone who would like that place....

you can create this illusion with no way of being convicted....

ARK

Miss Priss
I don't quite understand. Are you saying while trying to make your H a little jealous, you ended up having an EA with an OM? Is everything ok now?

Daisy
It sounds to me like you have your life in good order and know what direction you are going...GREAT!

Bear04
Your question is for Coffee Man...I don't know what an 'exit affair' is or what it means...Maybe he will notice and come back and answer.

BHINWI
You are cute with your ideas...Your spirits seem to be lifted...Could it be that you see 'some light' at the end of the tunnel?

Cynmanca
It seems the WS like to have their little romances and lovin on the side yet at the same time, they can't bear to think of their spouses being in another's arms.
Anyway, it seems that way to me.

Ark
You have such a witty and devious mind.~lol~I just love your ideas...Isn't there a saying something like: "Desperate times call for desperate measures"?

Seems to be the case here, when trying to rescue marriages, true?

Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I did this and it worked great. I loved seeing WH get that confused and slightly off balance look he'd get when he wasn't sure about things. I never actually was seeing anyone but I had a great time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

A few things I did:

I'd get up in the morning, put on a cute little outfit and go out for coffee before he'd get out of bed. I made sure to put a tiny bit of his favorite perfume on and lean over close to him to whisper that I would be back in a while.

I ALWAYS came back with a smile and in a good mood. This was a great way for me to spend some time by myself with the added bonus of WH wondering why I was leaving for an hour or two in the morning looking cute and smelling nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My mom bought me my favorite perfume for my birthday. She gave it to me about a week after my bday though. So, I took it home and left it on the counter. I did pick up a simple but sweet card and signed it just with a smiley face. That gift sat on the counter for 3 days like the big white elephant no one will talk about! He looked at it and acted like he wanted to say something but never would <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh yeah....many mornings before going out for that coffee I would go into the living room, which is right outside our bedroom. Quietly, so as to sound like I didn't want him to hear but knowing he could, I would say (to the dead air on the phone), "I'm heading out, I should be there in about 5 minutes". Now, sometimes it was one of my girlfriends who I would meet for coffee and call. Usually though, dead air.


I wondered if I was being too deceitful. But, you know, I never told him I was meeting someone and I never did see a guy.

WH had been deployed for a year and had decided while gone to divorce. He needed (IMHO) to see a fun, independant and non-needy woman when he got home.

He has told me that those things really made him stand back and thinik.

I am definately giving this approach some thought.

My question is how can my WS want a divorce for an EA? I mean wouldn't you want a solid relationship with the OM first? He isn't interested and is so totally not her type so it could maybe end up as a short PA.

Also, she has done this 3 times and she falls for men fast (first one was in one day - while I was there!) Each time she immediately wants to seperate and divorce.

She has told me since she moved out that I could get any woman I want. But then she makes hints and asks what I am doing? So that does tell me she cares and is she looking to see if I am "seeing" someone to justify what she is doing?

Everyone - this has been the most confusing 9 months of my life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Keith

This tactic is kinda like "reverse babble" to a WS. When a bs acts in ways the ws is acting...if the ws is out and doing their own thing (affair time usually) then the bs starts "doing their own thing". Kind of like "mirroring" the actions of a ws, but not going all the way, becoming wayward yourself.

And yes, the ws does get it. My xh freaked out when he dropped my son off after we'd been separated for 3 mos...I had been sent flowers by my aunt for my birthday, but I took off the card as to look like before he got there, that I didn't want him to see the card or whom it was from. He freaked out. He tried a small second comeback later, but it still got to him. One night when my then seperated x and I showed up at same party,it made him fall to his knees. I was at a party acting, behaving, and out with my girlfriends as a single woman. First time he had seen that. And stbxh then did not know I had been invited to the party. He was there already and acting rather sleazy, dancing and touchy feely with owomen. Meanwhile, here was me...and he saw how I wan't standing alone at that party.

My xh had just gone too far out...he was sooo far in the fog and still remains here to this day for it to help or for anything in my soul ever to want reconciliation. Nope. Not for this chickiepoo.

But I can say that "mirroring" or "allowing them to lose you" is good stuff and works without you really doing much. Most recently, my xbf and I have started seeing each other again. We'd quickly broken up in early sept., after he and I got cold feet after only a 2 day official committment...We had worked for same practice and he could always find out what I was doing, see if my car was there, etc...I quit that job and got another one (starting monday) and for 3 weeks he was totally in the dark about me. but we'd talk once or twice a month b/c we were still friends and broke up on good terms..

Suddenly the dynamics changed. I left my job. Went black. He knew and was aware that I'd been not being a complete wallflower going out with the girls and had heard from former coworkers I'd had several dates since our breakup. I was gone. History. Outta there. And the very thing that made him rethink everything was the fact I was going to work at a very large hospital where there were PEOPLE! God forbid, there are men working there too...and he knew how he and I met.

It was the whole "impression" of the sitch that threw him off balance.

We've seen each other for 3 weeks now, no committment as of today, but he and I might do ok this time.

All you need to do is appear foggy to them. Do your own thing. Live your own life. And a few "little things" tossed into the mix is enough to usually make somebody's mind completely go inside out wondering what in the heck you're doing...they may find you becoming foggy. Last night, xbf tried to even bring up issue if any guys have tried to hit on me when I went in for orientation last week. I said "wellll. I am not sure...but then again, you know how oblivious to those kinda things I am. Then told him about the med student who took my blood and then apologized for having to even stick me w/needle and ran and got me a coke and asked me to sit and talk to him." Had him kinda panicky. He replied that "aw come on. You know that you're not supposed to do that on the job. He was digging you." (really happened when I had to do my drug/tox screen and blood test a few days back)

So, it works. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wish I had found this site a year ago. Well I guess i did thing something like this. My WH seemed to be coming out of the fog last fall. D-Day was Nov 22,2004 - I had already started cking out other guys. Sometimes just conversing with OP -just to have someone to talk to as WH would turn his back on me when out at our favorite resteraunt. He worked (?) so many hours during all the huricanes down here we ate out nightly. I was doing it just to have someone talk to me. I am also a realtor and new pople would want to know about home prices and I would talk. H accussed me of trying to hit on guys. I wasn't I was just lonely. 2 yrs of him screaming at me, finding fault with me, we just had stopped talking. I knew in my heart he had someone else and was preparing my self for being single. I would have left soone however, home sales were down to 0 at this time. So I guess my loosing a ton of weight and looking really good had started to make him jealous. I thought it was strange behavior since he had not cared for so long. Now I see he was coming out of FOG and begining to come back -was afraid he may be loosing me. Hmmm have to think more on this. I at the time did not think he cared or would notice. I also thought his comments about me hitting on toher guys was just another way of his critisism. I had pretty much stopped caring what he thought at this time. I had told him one time after a haircut that he made remarks over. That it was Ok that I knew he would not like it and that I was ok with it.That there was nothing he liked about me. Even though it was the haircut that he had always liked before. Now that I have learned so much from MB I see how he was defogging at this time.

BHINWI

I just read ur recent post. You have really thought this one out a phantom vacation to Las Vegas. I shouldn't be thinking about this I am suppose to be vamping up for plan B but I might have some fun doing the same.

My wh is suppose to be coming over to see us I guess just me because its bedtime for my rugrats. Anyway I just deleted all incoming and out going calls on our caller ids and hid my cell phone. He has been doing a check on those items when ever he comes over. (as I did when he lived here). That should make him wonder a bit.

tdr,

Quick get on expedia.com and price 2 tickets to Las Vegas, print it out, and lay it out so your WS sees it.

Hurry, before she comes to see the kids.