The things I need to say to WH before I go to Plan B?

How do I start? I don't want to LB, but my natural inclination is to be a smart a$$. Sarcasm is my favorite form of humor.

I've been reading "Tanelornpete grows a backbone..." and have also taken the personality type test.

I am a stand up Peacemaker. Does that come from being a middle child? I knew where my personality would fall....didn't really need to take the test.

I need some of that testosterone Mel talked about.

Any suggestions about how to start this conversation with WH would be greatly appreciated.

As the time grows close, I find I am at a loss for words.

I am not going to back down on this, I MUST stick to my boundaries......I cannot continue to live my life as a flaccid being with no self-respect.

But where to begin?????

HELP!!!!!!!!!!

K

"Dear, my stipulation for your return was that all contact with OW be ended FOREVER. That has not happened. I have evidence that you are in still in contact with HB. [don't let him sidestep you with denials here, you don't have to "prove" what you already know] Therefore, I cannot continue to live with you until that does happen.

If you want to know what it will take to restore our marriage, the path back is in this letter. Until that happens, I am moving on with my life and respectfully ask that you find another place to live."

FIRM and STRAIGHTFORWARD.......

oops

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

oops!

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I like what you have to say, Mel.

It's too bad this all has to be so "scripted".

I have no trust whatsoever in WH. I really do think he almost has a split personality. Leading a double life probably does that to you.

But, I have come to a point where I feel that I no longer deserve any of this. I think I did for a while, and felt that I was less than nothing.

A friend pointed out to me last summer that I haven't "said or done anything RIGHT" since she first met me (which was very close to the time WH started his A).

I knew exactly what she meant...as far as WH was concerned, every move I made, everything I did, everything I said was WRONG.

I lived under this for 3 years before I found out about the A. I allowed WH to beat me down, until I felt like and "un-person" (kind of like the Un-Cola - no color, invisible).

I am turning myself around. If I didn't, I might as well just lay down and die.

I WILL NOT LAY DOWN AND DIE!!!!

If I am alone for the rest of my life, then so be it. I am not afraid of that. I enjoy my own company, and have many interests.

Now, about those personality tests.....I could use some of your Texas Testosterone, MelodyLane Hussein!

K

K, my message above is just to give you an IDEA of what you could say. Of course you will want to put it in your own words. But I find it helpful to have a list of short talking points if I am going to be in a stressful situation. And I also try to anticipate my subjects response so that I will somewhat prepared.

You should try to keep it under 3 minutes; your point is not to have a "talk," you have talked enough. There is nothing more to talk about. Don't let him drag you into a debate. When you are finished, hand him your Plan B letter with a smile.

Another thing I was thinking about, K. I remember a few months ago when you were apart for awhile, how peaceful you became. Do you remember that?

K -

Just want to say I am happy that you are going back to Plan B.

Not happy that you have to, but happy that you are because you have to.

Lots of folks here are in Plan B right now, draw strength from each other. And hold each other accountable when weakness threatens.

Will be thinking of you through this K.

Thanks Mel and Weaver....

Yes, you are right. There has been enough talking. It hasn't solved anything. Talks have in the past only deteriorated into horrible arguments.

Now, for my new Plan B letter.

Starting list for conditions...

1. Be on your own, with no contact whatsoever with OW (find some way to prove it)

2. Radical Honesty. Complete disclosure.

3. Marriage counceling.

4. Individual counceling.

5. Quit his job.....or transfer to another office far, far away.

6. 100% committed to us.

How many hoops does he need to jump thru? As many as I decide, I guess.

I'm talking about my life now. If he wants to be a part of it, then jump he must.

Everything up until now has sucked. I don't look for this to be easy. But I can definitely use some peace in my life.

Further suggestions would be appreciated.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K,

I think if I were to marry someone now (and if you agree to go back with him it will be a new marriage) I would insist that he work the MB program with me. POJA, E/N's, 15 hours per week minimum and of course the Policy of Radical Honesty which I see you have already listed.

Especially after seeing what some others go through on here whose spouse have no interest in MB concepts.

But that is just me, and I am completely sold on these concepts for a happy, productive marriage.

Oh, and will you require a NC letter?

Yes, Weaver!!!

This is why I ask for suggestions....I hadn't thought of the NC letter.

But how is that pulled off when one is in Plan B?

The worst thoughts in my head are that WH will start "insinuating" OW into my place with our friends and family.

But, I have gotten to the point where I don't even care about that.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

K, #1, #5 and the no contact letter are key elements. I wouldn't get more complicated than that. I would tell him he has to do all those things before you will even discuss reconciliation.

THEN, if/when you get to that point, you can get more detailed with elements such as counseling, etc. But I would keep it as simple and clear as possible. If you put too much in there, he will just get discouraged.

Ok, do you have your last letter? When do you plan on doing this?

Thanks Mel...

You are right. New list should be short and to the point.

1. Be on your own with no contact whatsoever with OW (find a way to prove it)

2. Quit your job, or transfer to another office far away.

3. No contact letter to OW.

I am formulating my letter now......I want to let him know that I do love him, that there is hope for us, and our M.

But out of respect for myself, I can no longer allow myself to be put thru this.

Enough is enough.

Strange that I had not long ago entertained the thought that he would eventually quit contacting OW on his own...that I could live with that.

NOT!!!!!!

I cannot live in a marriage like that. It's like being the rag that someone uses to wipe up their filthy floor.

I WILL NOT BE USED IN THAT WAY. I AM NOT A RAG.

I AM A HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS, WORTH, LOVE TO GIVE, AND MUCH TO LEARN.

K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi k72172!

Thought I'd throw in my 1/2 cent's worth...

You mentioned you were worried about your approach being 'scripted' - but look at it this way - you certainly don't have to use the offered 'script' - but the idea is the same: WS has to hear what you have to say.

What they do with it is on their side of the fence - you did what you had to do, and you can then step back, breath a sigh of relief, and get busy with your life.

It's all up to WS to follow thru - either they blow it, or they step up to the plate with you.

JMHO

David

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong>

I cannot live in a marriage like that. It's like being the rag that someone uses to wipe up their filthy floor.


K <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">K, I understand completely that you feel this way, but I think there are also practical reasons to do this. the most important being that this is your only hope to save your marriage.

See, whenever you cut him off he goes BONKERS. He can't stand to be away from you. That is because the OW does not meet his needs and he cannot bear the pain of being away from you. What that means is that he is only able to carry on with the OW as long as he has you in the lurches. He must have you there or he starts going into painful withdrawal.

So when you take him back too soon, you just give him what he needs to go on with his affair.

This time, I think the only way you are going to make it is if you make sure he actually goes through withdrawal from OW BEFORE you take him back. Everytime in the past, he caves in under the pressure of withdrawal once he has you back in place and contacts the OW again. That is because you always take him back way too soon.

This time, you have a real opportunity to bust up this affair if you can hold out longer than his withdrawal from the OW. Otherwise, you can just expect another false recovery. See what I mean?

Another point and then I will shut up. I think what is driving you today is your ANGER.

Because you are a conflict avoider, that is usually what it takes to propel you into action. You have to be pushed beyond any and all reasonable boundaries to get this angry.

That is a dangerous state of mind from which to make decisions, K.

It is dangerous to make decisions based on emotions rather than reason and logic. The reason is because your feelings change daily. You are angry today, but you will not be angry tomorrow or in 2 weeks. And then what are you left with? You are left with actions that you regret because they were based on a feeling that you no longer have.

So instead of making a plan based on emotions, can we discuss the practical reasons that you should go into Plan B? You don't need anger as your motivator to do this, you need your reason and logic based on sound judgement. And from that foundation, you make the right decision and calmly and deliberately move forward. Not with anger or fury, but with firm resolve and a sound strategy that you believe in.

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hi Mel....

Thanks for you very thoughtful reply.....I see what you are saying.

However, to say that I am angry right now is not exactly right...... I am more disappointed ...mostly in myself.

I AM angry at myself for not following thru on my Plan B the last time. Angry that I believed WH's lies yet again.

I know if I am to save my marriage, I must ultimately do the right thing......Which is a dark, firm, probably very long Plan B.

I think I have learned my lesson. The biggest one being to trust my gut feelings. The other is to watch actions, and not trust words.

I also know that if I fold this time, all will be lost as far as our M goes.

David....you are right, WH will either step up to the plate, or he will blow it.

And to top all of this off, I now have a horrible cold, and dread the thought of going to work tomorrow. Cough, cough, sniff............

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by k72172:
<strong> Hi Mel....

Thanks for you very thoughtful reply.....I see what you are saying.

However, to say that I am angry right now is not exactly right...... I am more disappointed ...mostly in myself.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am so sorry you are sick, K! MY poor DH came down with a horrible flu while on a business trip last week. There are some awful bugs going around now.

Thanks for clarifying about the anger thing. I was worried about some of your comments but your last post has put it all into context for me and I can now relax. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear K,
It is good to hear you sounding so resolved! My sister used to have a tee-shirt that said "I Stand Firmly Behind This". Reading your posts just now reminded me of it. I picture you standing very firmly behind your resolutions and conditions -- although...new thought slowly forming in my head....maybe it is a healthier "psychological picture" to view your resolutions backing-up a strong self...Hmmm. AT ANY RATE, the picture is of a strong, self-assured K! You go girl!

In regards to condition #1, "Be on your own...no contact with OW..." I think WS needs an extended period of time this way. His episodes of NC in the past were pretty short lived. He needs to prove to you that he has had no contact with OW for six months to a year. How's he going to do that? I don't know but that is his problem. If he gets his mind back and realizes what he has done and what an exceptional woman and life he stands to lose, then he will find a away to prove it to you. Probably what ought to happen would be for him to quit his job, move away (from OW) and then prove NC for 6-12 months.

I've been praying for you. If you already had your "talk" I hope it went well. If not, remember that you are in the thoughts and prayers of a lot of people!

Hi, K!

We must have been posting at the same time. Don't be too disappointed or hard on yourself, you learned something from the episode didn't you? Chalk it up as a valuable experience and keep it in mind as you plan for the future. A lesson learned is a lesson learned... (Dang, am I profound or what?)

I'm sorry to hear you are sick! I'm sure your boss would understand if you needed to take the day off... Use this time to practice pampering and being nice to yourself. Get someone to heat you up some chicken soup, grab a box of kleenex, a box of cough drops, and other assorted cold treating paraphenalia (sp?), and hit the couch to watch an old movie.

Get well soon!

Thanks Mel.....

Just wanted to let you know, anger is involved, but most of it is aimed at myself.

Always glad to help someone breathe easier (Peacemaker coming out). Really, if I didn't have people like you and SierraMissed2 to help me see from another point of view, I would be washed out in a sea of my own despair.

The talk hasn't happened yet, we have had a houseful this weekend, and I did not want to do this with my kids and their friends around.

Sometime this week. And you are right SM2, WH is the one who is going to have to prove that he loves and wants only me.

I think CarenMc's byline in her signature says it best...."Detachment is when you go from thinking you are going to lose WS, to they are losing you" says it all.

If WH can't step up to the plate, then he will be losing the best thing he ever had.

Not a big head on my part, just stating a fact.....

K