BP,
OK, but are you happy with me going in to plan B with him only remeberring my anger? I realise I can't change the past but although there are times I am civil and even kind to him, I certainly don't sustain it. He only remembers the negative moments we share. Would I not be better placed to spend some time (a week?} with absolutely no anger and then send plan B letrer. Or should I write in plan B letter that if we keep our distance it will be easier to control emotions.

Two other question,
You say paln B means zero C. With kids concerned their is the hand over times. They can be brief and business like or do you suggest I leave the house just before he comes to collect them or drop them off.

Do you think rather than going through a third party (for isssues that arise and planning the kids) we could e-mail one another? It feels easier than asking someone to sit between us. I could make the emails also brief and to the point.

Melodylane,
never mind... ?????????????
Are you still trying to be hurtful. I do value your thougths if you would like to share them with me. if not, that too is your right but if I want to feel hurt and rejection I would prefer to call H and not find it on MB .

S

BP,
OK, but are you happy with me going in to plan B with him only remeberring my anger? I realise I can't change the past but although there are times I am civil and even kind to him, I certainly don't sustain it. He only remembers the negative moments we share. Would I not be better placed to spend some time (a week?} with absolutely no anger and then send plan B letrer. Or should I write in plan B letter that if we keep our distance it will be easier to control emotions.

Two other question,
You say paln B means zero C. With kids concerned their is the hand over times. They can be brief and business like or do you suggest I leave the house just before he comes to collect them or drop them off.

Do you think rather than going through a third party (for isssues that arise and planning the kids) we could e-mail one another? It feels easier than asking someone to sit between us. I could make the emails also brief and to the point.

Melodylane,
never mind... ?????????????
Are you still trying to be hurtful. I do value your thougths if you would like to share them with me. if not, that too is your right but if I want to feel hurt and rejection I would prefer to call H and not find it on MB .

S

BP,
OK, but are you happy with me going in to plan B with him only remeberring my anger? I realise I can't change the past but although there are times I am civil and even kind to him, I certainly don't sustain it. He only remembers the negative moments we share. Would I not be better placed to spend some time (a week?} with absolutely no anger and then send plan B letrer. Or should I write in plan B letter that if we keep our distance it will be easier to control emotions.

Two other question,
You say paln B means zero C. With kids concerned their is the hand over times. They can be brief and business like or do you suggest I leave the house just before he comes to collect them or drop them off.

Do you think rather than going through a third party (for isssues that arise and planning the kids) we could e-mail one another? It feels easier than asking someone to sit between us. I could make the emails also brief and to the point.

Melodylane,
never mind... ?????????????
Are you still trying to be hurtful. I do value your thougths if you would like to share them with me. if not, that too is your right but if I want to feel hurt and rejection I would prefer to call H and not find it on MB .

S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arty:
<strong>
Melodylane,
never mind... ?????????????
Are you still trying to be hurtful. I do value your thougths if you would like to share them with me. if not, that too is your right but if I want to feel hurt and rejection I would prefer to call H and not find it on MB .

S </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Arty, I removed my comments and won't comment again on your thread. "Never mind" is not a hurtful comment, it simply means "never mind."

ML
When your on yor own and your life seems so ruined everything feels painful.
I did not come on to MB to make enemies. I came hoping to find help and to feel a little less lonely.
I understand I dissappointed you with my inability to follow your plan and maybe if I had I wouldn't be were I am today. Does that make me any less deserving of peoples kindness and support?
S

Arty,
My idea of support is to tell people the truth, not to tell them nice words as they stand on the train tracks.

Now, I do not consider you an "enemy," but I do realize that you have no need for my input, or the input of anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

If that is hurtful to you, then there is nothing I can do about that. Except stay away from your thread, which I fully intend to do. Take care...

ML,
I do not expect everyone to agree with me.
It is very rare that I even give an opinion. I just throw out questions and listen to responses. If you are offended that I haven't always followed them- I am sorry.
I didn't do it to hurt you or even myself.
S

Your sig line reads:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">11/03-2/05 multiple false recoveries</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why so many false recoveries?

Pep

OK, but are you happy with me going in to plan B with him only remeberring my anger? I realise I can't change the past but although there are times I am civil and even kind to him, I certainly don't sustain it. He only remembers the negative moments we share. Would I not be better placed to spend some time (a week?} with absolutely no anger and then send plan B letrer. Or should I write in plan B letter that if we keep our distance it will be easier to control emotions.

It would have been better to spend some months in a working plan A, where you had opportunity to make it impossible for your WH to forget any love he still has for you. But we do not have a time machine and you cannot now do that.

Do not fall into the trap I did in thinking that there is no part of you that your WH wants and needs because he had an A. Just removing yourself forces an uncomfortable reassessment of the reality of a future without you from WS.

And it allows you to recover personally away from the sturm und drang of his craziness and your lovebusting.

How can you guarantee a week with absolutely no anger? You haven't managed that so far, why now? be realistic. Its plan B time.

Two other question,
You say paln B means zero C. With kids concerned their is the hand over times. They can be brief and business like or do you suggest I leave the house just before he comes to collect them or drop them off.

Do you think rather than going through a third party (for isssues that arise and planning the kids) we could e-mail one another? It feels easier than asking someone to sit between us. I could make the emails also brief and to the point.

No direct contact else your WH will manipulate you into making him feel comfortable.

Study the many many failed plan Bs on this site. Ususally the WS lures the BS into hopeful early contact and it fails.

You need a trusted gopher than your kids trust and love.

No direct contact until teh A is over and WS can demonstrate a commitment to rebuilding. None. nada. Nyet.

And I hope a plan B expert like Ark^^ or K could dropby and give you more specific PB advice. I lknow plan A pretty well, but I have only studies plan B, never actually executed it.

BTW Melody Lane is one of the most caring folks on these boards ever. She's come though stuff we can only have nightmares about.
She kicked my [censored] good and proper when I was too scared to expose my Squids affair until i did.

She gets frustrated with BS who don't pick up the tools in front of them when shes seen the same tools work for countless other BS.

All blessings.

<small>[ March 15, 2005, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>

Pepperband,
Why so many false recoveries?
I wish I knew. Each time I found out about new C with OW he begged me for another chance and that he has chosen me etc and I didn't want to end it. I always had a good reason why this time would be different
Yes, I was wrong.

BP
Thanks for answering all my questions. I did at times Plan A for lengthy periods until I found renewed C with OW. But I agree enough is enough.
To add to my disgust in H, I just got a credit card account with $450 expense to an exclusive romantic retreat booked on a day he was 'in the office catching up on paperwork'
My gut tells me to call him and blast him. I won't but it would take all my courage not to lash out when he next calls or comes to get the kids. So plan B it must be.
What repulsive behaviour not to care about my pain to that extent.
S

Arty,

Time apart has away of making people remember the good and forget the bad.

This is why so many get back together after they break up. They tend to forget all the negatives and remember only the good parts.

Until you are in Plan B, be as charming as possible, even if it is only one or two encounters before you go dark.

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Hi Weaver,
So are you suggesting I ignore his vacation plans?

Also, a few small problem with Plan B for m:
We share a business. I am not required to be there every day and I can minimize our C when I'm there but we will be in the same office for at least the short term.

I have also organized mediation to help us make decisions on sharing the kids, financial stuff etc. Do I wait till we have completed that process before Plan B or do we have small amount of C within Plan B. Only what is needed to move on with our lives?

S

What vacation plans Arty? I must have missed that, or do you mean the credit card bill for the resort? I thought he already did that. If so, ignore it. If not ignore it anyway. What you say will have no bearing anyway. You will never be able to bring it up in a loving way it will only result in a fight.

Yes you can do plan B with your kids. Just make sure that the only contact you have with him is through the mediator.

Make sure that if you must have contact with him re: kids or business you do not digress from the purpose of the contact.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1.Sending him a letter I find a bit wierd. H has often said that my words do not corollate with my actions (ie I say I love him but I don't behave as if I love him). I think he would get my letter and just roll his eyes at me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This statement struck me as something that can work in your favor. This time with the Plan B letter you will stick to it. You will not be moved from what you say in the letter. It will be like the word of GOD. A chance to show him that you are a woman of substance and you will stick to what you know is right and best for you, and your marriage.

He might roll his eyes at first but oh won't you get his attention as the weeks go by and he sees that you meant it.

I have hope for your marriage because your Plan B is going to be such a direct opposite of what you have been doing now. What a shocker and wake up call he has in store for him if you can STICK TO IT.

You are going to become such a strong woman during this time that you will not settle for disrespect and the non-valuing of you that he has been doing and that you have been doing of yourself.

If you can't have contact with him without jeoperdizing your Plan B objective than wait until after the mediation session where you must communicate with WH regarding the separation.

This is scheduled soon right?

Hi weaver,
Yeh, I think that c/card amount was a deposit for a romantic event to come. It amazes me that he thinks nothing of hurting me by rubbing my nose in it.

Thanks for finding something positive in all of this. I feel lighter to think I can turn something of this nightmare into a positive.

Now I will have to pen the letter and then I will need the strength to stick to it. Part of me worries that he will ot even care. Either way I have nothing to lose.

Thanks for believing in me and letting me feel there is still hope for us.

S

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by arty:
Pepperband,
Why so many false recoveries?
I wish I knew. Each time I found out about new C with OW he begged me for another chance and that he has chosen me etc and I didn't want to end it. I always had a good reason why this time would be different
Yes, I was wrong.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is your PLAN to avoid yet another false recovery?

In other words, what did you learn from your past mistakes?

Pep

I am about to control my future more than I have ever done in my life. I am penning a plan B letter. I have asked my SIL if she will be our person to turn to if we need to communticate.
I have never felt surer about this. He spent the day calling me just to anger me. I know I must go dark so I can learn a new way of being.
I am strengthened to succeed by Weavers words of what a shock he will get when, for a change, I stick to my word and how great it will be for me not to be the needy one.
I am still under the belief that it is probably too late for us. Regardless, I would like to find myself on my feet and copying with my new life and I know this is the first step.
Wish me luck and give me pointers on how to cope with a successful plan B and what I must avoid.

S

Arty,

My 2 cents:

1. Plan B is about you and for you. As for NC w/ the WS, this is c/b with some expection items. Mine whittled down to 3 items: mail, $$ and child visitation. The rest was spelled out in the plan B e-mail I sent.

2. As for your working conditions, treat it separately. Work is work, M is M. 2 different things. Interact for work and when he wants t/d R chit chat, cut it off until your plan B conditions are met to your satisfaction. Oh yea, this is about control so if he plays that card, agree. Let him know he doesn't make you feel safe so you have to resort to this method.

3. Don't care about what he does or where he goes only what relates to the exception items in your plan B outline or work. Then you do the same with you. Dress up nice, look good, go have good time at lunch, etc. If he needs to watch the kids, let him...... don't accomodate his requests unless it makes it better for you. Remember he may try to use this as a tool to manipulate you so you do the deciding not him.

NOTE: The WS will whine and cry about losing his ability to control, remember that is the WS talking not your H. Learn to tell the difference in his character and deal 1 way with the WS and another way with your H. Show no lienency towards the WS but be kind to your H. When you H's personality peeks out, let him know you care, when the WS emerges, NC big time.

As for false recoveries, expect it. Don't plan on recovering right now and there w/b less false ones. The WS will pull the same stuff but the BS won't call one good move from the WS recovery, then be disappointed. No sirrrreee..... the BS will call 1 good move by the WS just that, one good move and wait until you are throughly convinced before you even think about being in recovery. That way you are less disappointed.

Same crap (stuff from the WS) just the fact that you have a different perspective (not be anxious to call every little positive action recovery).

JMHO,
L.

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thanks Orchid,
I agree, work, $ and kids are the only things we need to discuss and even that is better done through SIL or e-mail.

I can see that this is not about him, this is about me. I will look after me and start having fun.

He will not enjoy the lack of control and that he is losing me but the time has come. I will deal with his anger better than I deal with my own.

Show no lienency towards the WS but be kind to your H. When you H's personality peeks out, let him know you care, when the WS emerges, NC big time.

Question: When should I be kind to H if I stay dark and minimize C?

I am so far away from looking for recovery. I am searching for my own personal recovery and a better way to deal with this circumstance.

Arty,

Because of the kids and the business, there will be times when contact is unavoidable.

It is during these times that your attitude/responses will depend on whether your H is in WH or H personality.

I think this is what Orchid is referring to.

You are actually lucky that there will be the occasional exposure, so he can see all the positive changes in you, and your detachment to him.

It's all about strategy really, hence the differentiating between WH/H.

The Plan B is removing you from the nasty dynamics of the affair mentality WH, and creating a new dynamic where you are in control and have removed yourself from the insanity.

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>