</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am new to this site and have heard plans A and B mentioned several times. Where can I find them? I am desperate to take positive action to save my marriage, even though he has zero willingness to save us at this point.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jody, I started this thread for you so you could get help and I called out some of the best help available. Whatever they say to you, DO IT. Don't wait.

First of all, go to the bookstore at the top of this page (right under Marriage Builders) and click on bookstore. Order Surviving An Affair and His Needs, Her Needs. Then go to the main page of this site (home at top of page) and start reading the articles. This will help you get started.

Sorry you have to be here with the rest of us, but you've come to the best place there is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jody

Welcome to the best club in the world that nobody wants to be a member of....

Whiel you wiat for the wise heads of thi site to help you, why not post up some details of your situation sso we can see your story ?

Also check out my collection of resources for betrayed spouses new to MB.

New BS toolkit

It contains some of the bundled knowledge of the wiset and most caring people in the world regarding recovering from infidelity. I hope it helps to guide your moves. and keep posting.


All blessings.

starz has sent you off in the right direction.

Please also read the link in my sig line below and all the embedded links.

Home with flu...am moving this thread up to follow as my symptoms allow

Okay here are my details. My husband and I have been together a total of 9.5 years, lived together 8 of them and married 1.5 years ago. Early on I did not want to marry due to a bad former marriage and as time progressed my husband and I both had times when we felt ready, then not ready to marry. I wanted to make sure I graduated from college and had a professional job, he is 10 years younger than I and had times when he wasn't sure he was ready to marry. Neither of us questioned that we would marry each other, it was more a matter of timing. I have 3 kids from my former marriage, my current husband and I have a daughter, 8 years old, together. About 10 months ago my H's behavior began to change. He became secretive, defensive, difficult to locate,angry with me over things that never mattered before, his appearance changed, and eventually he stopped having sex with me with the same frequency we had enjoyed. All signs of an affair. I tried asking, but was told I was crazy, I tried "catching him" but found that I didn't respect myself for being sneaky, go figure...On Feb 11 as I was walking out the door to work my H informs me that he is sorry, but he wants a divorce, he has spoken with a lawyer, and he has already applied for a mortgage and found a home to purchase. I actually drove almost all the way to work before the whole situation hit me and I began falling apart, called into work etc. My H insists that he is not having an affair, I really don't believe him but it may be an EA which would allow him to say that with a straight face. Anyway, I was able to talk him out of buying a home, since our future is uncertain. He insists he no longer loves me, will never love me again, never wants to be with me. I told him I felt that feeling in love was transient, he loved me when we married last year and he couldn't know for sure how he would feel in the future. Used this logic to talk him out of pursuing a home purchase (too permanent) and so far he hasn't filed for divorce (positive step). He still insists there is no future for us and he wants out, I have let him know (thanks to this site) that I respect his right to his own actions, but I remain committed to him and our marriage. I also let him know that I had to be able to live with my actions during this time and asked that he respect that, stop trying to change my mind or feelings about him. Right now he is still living at home and surprisingly has been a more active participant than he has been in months. He seems happier now that he has made the decision to move on and that really hurts! I do care about his happiness but he has been acting so out of character for the last months that I feel I can only base my actions on the man I knew before. I believe that when he comes back to himself he will feel bitter disappointment in himself for his actions now, despite his assurance to the contrary. Another positive from the site was permission to seek an anti-depressant without feeling guilty about it. I have had difficulty sleeping, getting to work, taking care of family, being positive when I am with my husband, crying etc and because of this site I finally went to my MD yesterday and asked for help. She said it will take about 2 weeks to kick in but knowing a change is coming is helping already.
I appreciate any help or advice. I am looking at links provided in earlier posts, and just want to make it through each day for now. Future hope is that my husband will remember his love for me and our family and tear down the wall he has built against me and the older kids. Future future hope is that I will learn what my H's emotional needs are and learn to meet them, as well as incorporate POJA and radical honesty, though right now that seems too far fetched to be possible. I appreciate this site and support!

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: JodyM ]</small>

Do you have any idea who the OW is? Any clues?

Sorry if you already described this and I forgot. My oldstimers disease. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WAT

Thought it might be a woman who works for him, but no proof. I let him know before he decided to leave me that I thought their contact may be inappropriate and I was uncomfortable. Esp when my H changed companies and made sure he brought her with him. Now my H is changing companies again with no option of taking her along, as far as I know, so it may be easier for me to identify contact, but then again maybe not since my H no longer leaves his cell phone out and has changed all his passwords.

Has he left or not?

If he hasn't left, good. Plan A your butt off and watch for evidence of contact with a goal to ID the OW. Do you have sufficient evidence to expose an affair to his family?

Read up on Plan B if he has already left and in case he does leave. Plan B may be the recommended strategy right away or soon in either case.

WAT

He hasn't left yet, and I have been trying plan A, just gets so discouraging. I also want to know how to tell if plan A is working, I just keep looking for reasons to hope.

Plan A is working when you feel you are becoming a better person. - when you are fixing the problems YOU brought to the marriage.

This is all you can do. You cannot make your husband do anything.

Look for Plan A effects in YOU, not him. If you do it honestly, the rest will take care of itself - if he's going to notice.

See the difference?

WAT

arks plan A post...

plan A

Thank you, the plan A post is very helpful. I believe I am doing well with the plan and do feel better about myself and my own attitude and behavior. The comment about the WS paying attention to the changes helps, because my H doesn't seem to and it is so easy to become discouraged. One question about the plan A post though, you said to set a time limit and make plans for plan B, but is this appropriate without confirmation of the affair?

Confusion abounds along with pain hurt hope etc...but I digress. Since Feb 11th my H (probably WH though I have no confirmation) has insisted there is no hope for us or our marriage, he wants out, doesn't love me etc etc though he is still technically living at home. I have been engaged in plan A with no signs of anything from H. Now the confusion, my H has the morning off yesterday and disappears (as usual, but I don't ask other than pleasantries about his day etc and GOD THIS IS HARD TO DO!!!) Then today I ask about his salary discussions with his employer, how did it go and he says he is pleased and WE have lived on less before. I am trying not to HOPE but this type of language [WE](is it a slip on his part?) makes me giddy. What is wrong with me, why can a single word/action from him alternately devastate and create joy in me. AAAGH I feel so out of control of my own emotions...

Just curious, were you already divorced when you met your current H?

What marital problems lead to your previous D?

I was divorced when I met current H and my prior divorce was due primarily to my xH alcoholism and the M issues typically related to the disease. Tried for 10 years to live with the problem but it became clear as the years passed that his actions were negatively impacting our kids so I felt compelled to leave the marriage. FYI I did give my xH a timeline for the separation/divorce, gave us 6 months to address the issues in our M (including the alcoholism) and when that didn't happen moved to separation and then divorce.

He sounds very typical of one in an A. Trust your gut and all the signs he is exhibiting. You are not crazy.

Don't get your hopes up to high. You are just at the beginning of what could be a long rollercoaster ride. You've been given good advice and links.

When you get Surviving an Affair, you may try leaving it out in hopes that he may pick it up when you aren't around. Unlikely, I am sure, but you can hope. You may try reading it with a highlighter. You may find a particularly pertinant paragragh and ask him to read it. Other's may not agree. I had my H read a bit but he was on the fence already and leaning my way.
It doesn't sound like he is in a receptive place.

Do a good plan A. Try to be calm, firm, but loving.

If you get proof of the A, then consider moving toward plan B. Remember to expose as soon as possible...hopefully with some sort of proof.

A good plan B will help him to feel what he will miss without you in his life and get a dose of that reality.

Okay...here's a question. I am the BS (wife) and I have had a pretty decent plan A so far, very few slips. I filled out the EN Questionnaire and found that I have a high need for sexual fulfillment. My H knows this and has been with holding sex from me since the fall. With the new developments it has gotten worse, to the point that he uses me for his own satisfaction (oral) then leaves me. On one hand I am grateful for any physical contact (which he studiously avoids) but on the other this act makes my taker rear up in protest. I wish I could say he doesn't do this intentionally but I know better. When he first began with holding and I asked him about it he said he had to get me "under control". Any experienced BS out there had this issue and how did you handle it? FYI taking care of this myself hasn't filled my need for contact from my husband. This has been the hardest issue to keep from LBing since my plan A. I need HELP and soon!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JodyM:
<strong> Okay...here's a question. I am the BS (wife) and I have had a pretty decent plan A so far, very few slips. I filled out the EN Questionnaire and found that I have a high need for sexual fulfillment. My H knows this and has been with holding sex from me since the fall. With the new developments it has gotten worse, to the point that he uses me for his own satisfaction (oral) then leaves me. On one hand I am grateful for any physical contact (which he studiously avoids) but on the other this act makes my taker rear up in protest. I wish I could say he doesn't do this intentionally but I know better. When he first began with holding and I asked him about it he said he had to get me "under control". Any experienced BS out there had this issue and how did you handle it? FYI taking care of this myself hasn't filled my need for contact from my husband. This has been the hardest issue to keep from LBing since my plan A. I need HELP and soon!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, Jody.

I couldn't find your age, I looked at some, but not all of your posts. Sorry If I missed it.

I am guessing that you are about 41/42, and your hubby about 31/32 since you said he is 10 years younger. I will bring the age factor into play in a moment.

First off, Plan A is not about being a doormat. That includes NOT being used as an oral sperm repository. I understand that you have needs. My wife and I are in the 'once a day plus' category. Regardless of your pressing need, you are going to have to exercise good common sense.

If I were in your situation, common sense would be screaming several things at me;

1) I don't know exactly where his penis has been.

2) He is using my sexual needs to control me, and the situation.

3) Why does he think I need to be under control?

The proper response to item number one, is use protection. A condom will NOT protect you from all possible STDs, but if you are going to give him blow jobs, then at least use a condom. If this sends a message to him that you don't trust him, then good. That is not a 'love buster'. That is protecting your life.

For items two and three, you need to figure out HOW he is getting control, and what it is that he wants to control. My first guess is that he wants to get your 'neediness' under control. If this is the case, then you really need to see to the tendency for betrayed spouses to get 'grabby/needy'. That will drive a wayward spouse further away in short order. A wayward spouse needs to see a calm and collected spouse, fully in control of themselves.

Additionally regarding items two and three, ask yourself what vantage does he gain by using you for his pleasure only, by having one-way sex with you.

Back to the age difference. If he is indeed early 30's and you early 40's, then his perceptions of family and fatherhood are going through some massive changes right now. Your desires are very different. If you are indeed behaving in a 'grabby/needy' way with him, he is likely feeling very trapped.

Having said that, I am in NO WAY inferring that you are responsible for his affair. That is solely his responsibility. My post to you is in hopes of helping you refine your Plan A a bit to exclude his behavior, which in my opinion is bordering on the sexually abusive, and exclude your behavior if it is 'needy'.

As for the sex, all I can offer is my opinion. First, if you don't know for sure that he his is NOT using his penis in places it doesn't belong, then I strongly urge you to not have sex with him until a full range of STD testing has been carried out, on both of you. If you are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that he is not sexually involved with someone else, then you should set some boundaries that at least minimally ensure some equality during sex. For a practical example, if you want to start with oral sex, then fine, just make sure that you don't finish him before you have been at least somewhat satisfied.

If he doesn't want to have sex with you at all, then you will have no choice but to take care of yourself for now. If it is a great burden, then consider reducing the length of your Plan A and moving to Plan B. Either way, he is not going to be interested in meeting your needs for a while.

Sorry if I appear harsh, that is certainly not my intention.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,
I reread your post several times in order to fully internalize the content. You are right (darn it) about me feeling/demonstrating needy behavior in terms of sex. I have done better since finding MB than I have in the past for example keeping a good attitude when he rebuffs my advances (sometimes he initiates contact then suddenly shuts down) and letting him know I am interested but respect his wishes. However I do maintain physical contact with him in bed when he is home (touching his arm as he sleeps for example). I am using this "illicit" touch in place of the once common physical contact we had between us (it makes me feel more at ease, is this wrong?). I really miss my H and when I touch him or kiss him lightly as he sleeps I think positive thoughts about him to counterbalance the negative feelings I have surrounding his current actions. Somehow I feel more connected to him, crazy huh?

I don't know exactly how the sexual control on his part plays into this, but I do know that my H is very angry with me. He doesn't say it, but his actions are clear that he believes my presence in his life is keeping him from "being all he can be". I believe this is fog talk, when we married he spoke of how I was his best friend who had supported him and been there for him during our entire relationship etc etc. Now I am the enemy. I think I represent his conscious in some ways, he wants to be selfish and act in an immature way, but my presence won't allow him to do that without guilt. Maybe the sexual control is another play to make me "let him go" and have the divorce he is asking for, or maybe it is a passive/aggressive way to hurt me without actually "hurting" me.

My H won't admit to the A, I haven't been able to prove the A, but his actions and personality changes all point to an A. Since this is the case do I assume the A has happened and act accordingly? I understand now that I must set aside my own need for sex and draw a line in the sand about his potential affair, I am just unsure about how to do that. I know once I confront him on this and let him know that sex without protection will not be acceptable he will completely cut me off emotionally and physically and that is not going to be easy by any stretch. This is not an excuse (or maybe it is I don't know) but neither my H nor I have parents/grandparents still living no close brothers or sisters etc. We have been each other's sole support. I honestly can't imagine my life right now without this forum as support. It has kept me from picking up the phone to call him, reminded me to keep it light when he did call, given me hope that I will come out of this a better person no matter the outcome to my M. Okay, what do I do next? That is the question of the hour...