O'girl,

Oh, please rest assured ("rest assured", what a cro... cliche) that I'm not in Plan A, and will not be in plan A. I guess I'm not going to win any "great communicator" competition - if anybody could think I'm going back to Plan A.

My point was : I did some kind of sloppy, poor half-hearted plan A - but that phase is done. I should have done better, but it is done. Now I just have to be as dark as possible to maximise the contrast. A sloppy plan A followed by a sloppy plan B might not even register on the WS's radar.

In short, I'm in Plan B (or D).

-AD

First contact in 48 hours: W called my office phone.

She said "The viewing for the photo session that DD had a couple of weeks ago is at <a certain time> today. I can't make it, please go and buy the cheapest packet of photos." I replied that I would go if work allowed. I made the convo as short as possible. I didn't promise to go.

DD4 was really excited by this photo session. It was a dress-up thing where the photographers supplied the costumes. If I buy a packet of photos, I'll have it sent to my house. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'll hang an 8x10 on the wall somewhere and take a smaller one for my office. If I pay for them, I'll keep 'em.

Thanks, W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-AD

Coach,

Last night, my newly install internet connection forsook me and my last edits were lost.

I had saved a response to your #1 point for last.

I don't recall what I typed last night, but the essential thing is that I would only reconcile with my wife under the conditions that she take every action to render OM hopeless - that is to destroy any hope that he could eventually "win" her.

I insist on winning what I wanted to win when I married - which is a wife and family. It's not good enough for me to simply stay married - even without OM.

To destroy OM's hope, WW would have to agree to move to another city (I'll address the unfairness of this later), and to give me another child. BEFORE ANYBODY STARTS SCREAMING, I fully realize that the decision to bring another child into this relationship is a matter of the most serious import - and I would not embark on that path without a very strong sence that we would be able to establish a good home. For OM, to know that she was again pregnant with my child should be a very strong indication that he will at least have to wait another few years - and even if he "win"s her in the end, will have to accept the fact that she may be done with having children by then - and that he would probably remain childless - and in that event would have to share her with two of my children.

Taking this path would require an extremely high level of commitment from me also - since I would be bringing a child into a known unstable situation, I would have to commit to stay the course for the sake of the children.

Those would be my conditions - and they are extreme. I don't forsee that happening - despite the fact that W doesn't miss a chance to tell me
1) DD is asking for a little brother or sister. and
2) She (WW) is done with having children, but
3) She (WW) really misses having a baby.

I know some of you are screaming anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't expect it to go that way - but I'm not interested in compromising what I want any farther. I want a family.

-AD

AD:

Lab results?

-ol' 2long

svb1,

Thank you for answering my tax question.


I have no excuse, but please excuse me for not replying sooner.

I'll have to work the numbers and see how much it will cost me to D this year or wait until January to finalize it. I'm sure it will cost me, and since I'm not in any way shape or form ready to date, it probably doesn't matter if I wait til January.

On the other hand, if it's not a huge amount of money, it would be merciful to get it over with.

I'm guessing that if W's citizenship inteview goes well in mid-July (almost certainly will be approved), she will have to wait another 2-3 months for the oath ceremony - which would make it October at the latest. If we filed, say, 25 days before the oath, we could be D'ed a few days after she is a citizen. She would be in compliance with her filing status (filing for citizenship as the spouse of a USC). But, if it will save me $2-3 thou, I'm willing to file in early December and have it final in January. (Assuming there is no reconciliation on my terms.)

I hope your move is going well - and you'll be back on-line tomorrow from Chicago.

-AD

I just called them, no answer, left a voice mail.

Just in case anybody uses such a service; "Genetic Identity" (lookup 'em up on the web) is a DNA lab that will charge your credit card and not send you any results for a month. If that's what you want, I can recommend them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

They must be legit - or they would have sent me phoney results long ago.

-AD

2Long,

I'm way behind here, but just in case you remember what you posted to me 2 days ago...


OH YES!

I could knock myself on the head for being blind, but it's water under the bridge. I have to tell her what I want - and what I am unwilling to accept - and I have to stick by my words.

That much is clear.

But...

There is POJA - and negotiation in marriage - and I have to make sure that my "line in the sand" is the real (and reasonable) line.

If I come to her and say that I want her to give birth to 5 more children for me, and take care of me as if she is the slave of the pooh-bah, she should say "no", and it would an unreasonable demand.

So, I have to tell her what I want, and stick by it - but restrict my demand to be my lower limit for an acceptable marriage. But, if all she does is the minimum, what would that say about our relationship? Ultimately, the ideal marriage has a basis in giving, not because it is demanded, but out of love - out of a wish to be a blessing and a comfort to your spouse. I think I have done that pretty much on a daily basis. If you add up all the time she has spent doing that for me over the last 6.5 years, it would not amount to more than 4 hours.

What I'm saying here, is that I'm unwilling to demand something from her - if all I get is the result of the demand. If she has nothing in her which drives her to want to please me - to want to help me - to want to make my life pleasant and delightful, then I don't want to continue with her. Is that unrealistic of me?

Gimble? Coach? What say you?

-AD

AD,
Your plan seems a bit convolute to me. Here you are talking about a second child in the same sentence you are discussing the potential benefits of which month to divorce her in. You do see the incongruity of this discussion I assume?

So here’s another idea for you. I’m rather fond the divorce busters 180. The problem is that contrary to what most folks perceive it to be, what I feel it’s about is communication. For it to be effective, the single most important element is communicating attitude and doing so consistently.

You’ve all ready jumped on it to a certain extent so how about making it a conscious effort? To do so, doesn’t require that you go totally dark. It does require that you go emotionally dark and communicate this to your WW with a consistent attitude that will cause her to conclude that you’re going on with your life…with out her!

Think about doing this. Go to a Laundromat to do your laundry…not your other home. Think about something as simple as a new haircut! If your hair is short, let it grow long. If it’s long, cut it short. Or how about a beard? And how about getting out of town for a weekend. Just go away somewhere. Nothing expensive…just away. How about simply refusing to discuss financial matters other then those you’ve decided upon? How about not allowing her to get you into any kind of argument?

How about putting time aside for a hobby? My favorite was a community theatre group! You don’t have to act you know? They always need folks to help with sets and design, tickets and costumes. And the people are always fun to be with.

Don’t be predictable! Don’t be picking up pictures for her. Don’t be fixing or helping. It’s time for her to do it all. Don’t be at home all the time. Be a mystery for a change. If you’re heavy, loose weight! Just do it! If you’re too thin, start lifting and putting on hard muscle.

Most important, learn to simply say NO! And to do it with no explanation!

You want to rock her world a bit, you have to create change. Change is uncomfortable and she is just too damn comfortable right now.

Need more ideas, ask. Folks around here can be very creative.
Coach

AW,

If you too remember what you posted to me 2 days ago...


I certainly am thinking about it. As my post just above said, if she is unable to give, not out of fear, but out of a genuine desire to boost my happiness, then I really don't want her as a wife. What I want is what she showed me 7 years ago - before I asked her to marry me. I want a wife who is proud to be my wife, and who wants to please me. She once told me that it was an honor and a pleasure to do anything with me - even just to go shopping at Wal-mart. And, I felt the same about her. That's the kind of attitude I want.

-AD

Coach,

Your advise is pleasing to me.

Right now, I'm concentrating on fixing up DD's room at my house.

The office phone has been ringing for the last hour and I have not answered it.

Hmm. It might have been the DNA lab. Oh well. They have my email.

I was looking at taking a welding class at a local tech school - just so I can start making some things from metal as a hobby. Unfortunately, the summer term has already started, but I can sign up for the term which starts in August.

I just wanted to clear something up.

I'm the kind of guy who likes to have options. When I was talking about a 2nd child, I was talking about what the conditions would be for a reconciliation - not something I would do right now. She would still have to 100% NC with OM - first and take some other steps to show her firm resolve to go in my direction before we get near that phase. So, I'm on the track for D. If she says "I don't want to D, what can I do to stay married to you, I'll have an answer for her." If she balks, then I can divorce her and can certainly find and marry somebody else who wants to have a family with me.

I've been looking in the paper for a cheap, used washer and dryer. I've got to get my minivan fixed before I buy anything large that needs to be transported. Meanwhile, I think I like the laundrymat idea. Who knows who I might meet there? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LOL.

Or, I could take my laundry to my bro's house and help him prune his trees or something in return. That would be even better.

-AD

Hey Surviving (IHW),


And who is "he" who has left you in the wake? Sorry, I really should go read your threads and find out.

Yeah, it may take me 2 days to reply, but I'm alive - just slow. Think of me as one of those... no, better not, I'm not a sloth, I'm not!

=AD

O'girl,

A key thing that you said...


YES! It makes sense, and it is the essence of what I am thinking right now.

-AD

People of MB, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is where I am right now:

1) I am totaly unwilling to accept anything less than a real marriage based on exclusive commitment and genuine, respectful give and take. If W comes to the point where she is willing to commit to that, then we can talk. Until then, I'm in Plan B - leading rapidly to D.

2) W needs to grow up and realize that my life does not 100% revolve around her. I have my own needs, desires, interests, goals etc - and if she is not willing to incorporate them into her pattern of daily living, then our marriage will come to an end in a manner and time convenient to me.

3) I need to focus on being a great Dad - and in part, that means that I have to push until I force complete compliance with standard visitation - which will mean not only overnights - but entire weekends during which DD will be with me.

(as an aside, the phone is ringing again (repeatedly). If it's the DNA lab, I hope they'll send me an email).

4) I must learn to consistently express my needs, desires, plans, expectation etc. I cannot demand that w comply with them, but I can and must say that some of those are neccesary conditions for the continuation of the marriage.

5) In the plan B mode, I have to make plans, and carry them out like a single man (with child), except that there will be no dating or looking for future prospects.

6) Comminication with my W must be limited, but in any and all communication with my W, I need to minimise the emotional content and be businesslike, firm, decisive and consistent.

7) And I have to live with the mindset "I am an engineer. I solve problems. I make things. I make things happen." And, I have to carry that out vigorously at the office.

Anything else you good people want to recommend at this point?

-AD

Sunday, when W was here and asking for money, I told her that I would approve of her borrowing it from DD's account - since I am confident that she would repay DD, as I am equally confident that she would not repay me.

She refused - saying she will not touch DD's money - and she didn't know how anyway. I told her we were both co-whatevers on DD's account and either of us could access it.

Well, I've not been answering the phones - which have been ringing a long the last two days. Tonight I checked on-line and found that W has withdrawn enough $$$ to prepay 6-months rent and a few hundred more - presumably for her teeth.

Now, she won't need to ask me for it.

I sent her an email saying.

"WW,

1) I noticed you took the money so I guess you're getting the apartment.
2) When are you moving out of the house?
3) We can move DD's overnight with me til Thursday night."

That's all it said. I have had no reply. She may not have checked that email box this evening.

Meanwhile, I've been painting (now it's almost 2:30am) DD's bed. The bed is now pink - for better or worse (and I suspect worse) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to bed! (or rather, to sofa)

G'night all.

-AD

W called this morning and I answered.

I knew it was her, but I wanted to find out if she read my email.

She asked me to take DD to music lesson during my lunch. I agreed.

I asked her when she was moving. She said she had not yet paid for the apartment (only made a deposit), but it would be available in early July. I replied that I found that schedule agreeable.

I told her that I wanted DD on Thursday night instead of Wednesady. She said that was better for her. I think, amazingly, that she is going to let me do the overnights! It sure sounded like it! My unrelenting pressure on this issue seems to be paying off.

I picked DD up from preschool, and took her to music (about a mile away).

While DD was in music, I went by to pay for the car registration (and get this year's stickers to put on the plates). I found out that W has already paid hers, probably from the money she pulled from DD's account.

That's ok. Again, I know she'll pay DD back after the house is sold. It's just another thing I didn't have to pay for.

But... this music-lesson run makes it a 2-hour lunch for me - very uncool <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> W scheduled this in conflict with her classes. I'm not sure what I want to do about it. ON the one hand, it puts me in DD's life. ( Maybe I should go ahead and have the piano moved to my house.) On the other hand, it is poor scheduling by W that gives me an extra 50 minutes of driving (there and back) to take DD to a 45 minute lesson. I'll ask the music school if somebody can go over and pick her up for her lessons. It would only take them 5 minutes each round trip.

Strange thing, the first time I took DD to music lessons, the teacher gave me her phone number - "just in case we had any questions". Why didn't she give it to W before? (The music teacher is married, btw). Today, she offered to give it to me again, but I told her we had it at home. I'll try to put the best spin on it and assume that the music teacher thinks I'm an idiot and it is pointless to tell me about DD's progress so she wants WW to call her.

-AD

Nobody's reading this, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, since it's just my private notebook, I can talk about DNA testing.

Is there some serious flaw in my communication skills?

The guy at the DNA lab kinda blew a gasket when I sent an email pushing for the results. He claims that he is going to refund my money. He may be a "scientist", but he don't seem to know nothin' 'bout customer service.

Here is the email stream. Tell me what you think.

----------------------------------
AD <mb11094@yahoo.com> wrote: (today)
----------------------------------
Dr. DNA-guy,

I am very dissapointed with your lack of progress on this lab test. Your web site indicates that the test takes 5 to 9 days. I mailed the item to you on May 2, and you charged my credit card on Friday May 6th - indicating to me that you recieved the item on that day, since you had no other way to know my card number except from the test request form.

On Tuesday, May 10, you sent me an email - asking me to call you to clarify what test I was ordering - since I had originally specified a differential lysis. I called you on Wednesday morning, May 11, and we discussed this - and concluded that you should do a Y chromasome test instead.

Since then, I have emailed once, and called several times. Last wednesday, you promised the results "today or tomorow", the following day (thursday) I called again and was told that the report would be sent out "today". Now it is almost a week later and still I have nothing.

At this point, I would like to ask for a refund of the $250 that I paid for this test. I paid on the understanding that the test would be done in the quoted time period. You charged my card immediately, but I have no indication that you have done anything else. I will make a complaint to the BBB if I do not recieve the results today.

Please reply.

-AD

---------------------------------
"Dr. DNA-guy" replied: (today - 1st message)
---------------------------------
Please call me.

---------------------------------
"Dr. DNA-guy" replied again: (today - 2nd message)
---------------------------------
I have changed my mind, DO NOT CALL ME. I have cancelled your test and your money will be refunded today. Have a nice day.

--------------------------------
AD wrote (just a few minutes ago)
--------------------------------
Dr. DNA-guy,

This test is a matter of vital concern for my life. To a considerable extent, the fate of my family depends on it.

I hoped that in response to my email, you would not cancel and refund, but would produce the results. From where I sit, the delay is a mystery.

If you had some unexpected problem which caused a delay, you could have notified me. Everybody drops the ball now and then, but I'm "out there" on the other side of the country, and the only thing I can see is your your web site and your communication. I believe you are a legitimate business, and that you actually did send my samples for testing somewhere. But, since I have seen no results - and have had no communcation other than "it will be done soon", I can only guess what is going on. The only leverage that I have is to use the BBB.

I participate in a web forum populated by many betrayed husbands - and if you had sent me the results promply, I would have recommended you to others there - and probably sent you some business.

I wish you every success in your business, but honestly, you've got to do what your advertisements say you will do.

Please return the item which I submitted for testing. The postal address I gave in the original order is my office address. Please mail in a discrete package as our receptionist will handle the mail.

Since you cannot produce the test report, I will, with disappointment, accept a refund on my visa card.

-AD

AD:

Call him anyway.

-ol' 2long

P.S. And why not use other methods? J.R. used a home semen test with, sadly, positive results.

2Long,

The reason I didn't use other methods is that I wanted an official-looking report with which to confront my W. I know what is going on. I don't need the test to know that.

And, I had assumed that since the test was taking a while, they confirmed semen already - since they told me they first confirm that semen is present before sending it out to another lab for the test that I ordered - which they do not do in house. They said if no semen is detected, I would not have to pay the full cost - but only $50.

But now, I think this lab is just all messed up and even if he sent the results, I would not have high confidence in them. It sounds like he got something confused, did the wrong test, had to do it again etc. If he could make all those mistakes, he could just as easily mix my control sample up with another and prove that <somebody>'s DNA didn't match the semen. If I wouldn't trust it, I'm sure no court would. Yeah, I would still have an official-looking report, but it wouldn't be fair to my wife to use something I don't much believe in.

Was my email abusive? Is this guy just having a really bad day?

I've only spoken to two different people on the phone there - an unnamed woman and this Dr. DNA-guy. I think this might be a mom-and-pop operation.

I think we're headed to D anyway, and if I get the $$$ back, I can sure use it.

-AD

are you sure you wern't raised by a sloth family then??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> yes yes go read my threads and read the epic story that is my life...hehehe...you will ooohh...you will...ahhhh...you will...laugh...you will cry...etc.....etc...etc....you get the idea.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Well, W called and I answered - because I wanted to square away arrangments for DD's visitation with me tomorrow overnight #1!!!

So, I listened and she is resigned to it etc.

That much is very good. She will pack PJ's in DD's school bag. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Man, what a life, having to go to school with an overnight bag. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And worse, I agreed to let WW stop by for a "brief" moment to see DD on the way home from her evening class. That was probably a bad idea. It would have been better to have her pick up DD and bring her to me. She could have her moment with DD on the way over here. Oh well, it's a small thing. I won't order the pizza until W has come and gone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The main thing is that I have acheived a major goal and breakthrough!

I'm on my way to becoming a part-time dad, but actually it is exciting for me, because always in the past, I could hardly do anything with DD without WW hovering over me. If I would ask DD a question at home, W would answer for her. Now, I get a chance to really be one-on-one with my only "offspring", and I'm really looking forward to the time together. I'm really really looking forward to the first Friday evening-til-Monday morning weekend. That will be terrific!

But one day at a time. One step at a time.

W said she came by and I wasn't here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
She noticed (from the outside) the new curtains in DD's room.

I told her I painted the bed - pink.

She tried to engage me in a session of feeling sorry for her for not having DD at home with her. I cut her off - but still it was 18 minutes. Amongst the things she said was she didn't know if she could go through with the D - knowing she would miss 1/4 of the time with DD. I just said "Well, things could not continue as they were.", to which she agreed. Whatever.

She called back to say sorry to have griped to me - and to pass on the message that some lady called the other night. I already knew that, 'cause she found me at the office.

It was the widow of my uncle (who was an OW that my uncle left his wife for). She just called to tell me that there was a man who wanted to buy the property (40 acres) my Mom left us (me,bro,sis) down there. I got his name and number. I had forgotten about that. Just when I need it, another source of money!!! I'm supposed to be handling Mom's estate, but have been so wrapped up in my problems at home that I have neglected it.

I think I'll have an appraisal first, then call the man with my price. A third of whatever he will pay will mine - and will be a help in a tight spot.

After all this is done (assuming we D) I'll buy myself a piece of woods somewhere - maybe just 10-20 acres in the middle of nowhere - for no particular reason than that everybody needs some land - and it's nice to have it in reserve - even if one rarely goes there. It's a pity to sell Mom's land just to pay stuff, but I don't feel any particular attachment to it, and I don't want to wrangle with my bro and sis about working out a way to keep it.

Oh, and in case anybody is reading....

I recieved my first wrong number phone message on my new land-line phone. The lady had a pleasant voice, but she was looking for "Robert", and unfortunately, I'm not "Robert". But, if she calls again, and I'm home, I'll engage her in conversation, whoever she is. LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<AD, feeling ashamed, none-the-less smiles shamelessly.>

-AD