Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 91 of 114 1 2 89 90 91 92 93 113 114
Gramn #1392403 09/22/05 10:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 27,069
Well Gramn - that is how they think. Strange, isn't it? My WH told me last week that it shouldn't matter to me if he and OW move into my home because after all we aren't married anymore. I said "come again???" He said that we haven't been married since D-day. Hmmmmm. Too bad we have to spend all of this money getting a divorce then.

believer #1392404 09/22/05 10:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,715
O
Owl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,715
I faced the same kind of dilemma, Gramn. My wife didn't end the A by her choice...he told her NOT to come to him when he knew she wasn't totally sure on what she wanted.

Of course, it was all MY fault for not just letting her go. But for us, that did start the withdrawl and the end of the affair, so her withdrawl from it only lasted about 3-4 weeks after that...at least the worst of the withdrawl.

I've kind of struggled with why your wife has gone through withdrawl as long and as hard as she has...it's really made me wonder on the contact thing.

Owl #1392405 09/22/05 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
Her contact thing was(or possibly IS) intermittant which prolonged her drama. Also, She has NOT agreed to cease contact, but claims that there is none anyway.

In any case, signs point to this being over, but what do I know?

She was reading "Not Just Friends" yesterday, but gave it back to me because it was to "anti-affair" or something. I told her I'd get her "After the Affair" which is supposedly more balanced...
-----------------
ALso, she is convinced that OM loves her and only went back to his mean old OMW for his kids sake.

Last edited by Gramn; 09/22/05 10:34 AM.

D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392406 09/22/05 10:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
I am afraid you are cushioning your wife's fall to such a degree that her withdrawal from you will be too easy as she heads towards the DV she thinks she wants.

I didn't like the sound of your wife saying her x-husband would help her with her newsletter. It seemed pretty disrespectful of you.

I think it is very near time for her to experience a boat load of reality and consequences for her choices by you going doing a very scarce plan B. She needs to experience the reality of the loss of you. You have spoiled her with your love and devotion so that she is using you and she is taking you for granted. You've done a great plan A.

She uses the parts of you she can and discards the rest without a care for your feelings. Don't be her doormat.
You deserve so much more.

All that being said, I still have great hope for your marriage making a recovery...if you really want that.

I think that there have been moments already that you could have started a successful plan B that she would have felt. I understand that because the OM ended the A, plan B wasn't as advisable. I do think your being stronger, confident, sexy, positive, more up beat and excited about your future -either way-, some good 180 stuff, may help.

I will trust M/M's expertise on this one.

Last edited by Trix; 09/22/05 03:26 PM.

Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
Trix #1392407 09/22/05 11:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,712
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,712
I took some time to think on this over this morning, Gramn. I think it is probably time to get that Plan B letter dusted off. Trix made some good points there. And the statement she made about you being her "ex" could be the trigger you need to go to Plan B.

So, write the letter tonight or over the next several days. Post it up here so we can vet it. Since the OM is supposedly not involved with her right now, then you will have to modify the PBL slightly. But stick to the generic format.

I think come Monday, you should probably go no contact Plan B. She is alone and without the OM. But she still has you and as Trix states, it is cushioning her fall. Now is the time to let her freefall right onto her butt!

Since you have a daughter, I can help you write this PBL and set up the boundaries you will need to enforce this Plan B while still dealing with your daughter. The point of it is that you will have NC except MAYBE limited contact to deal with ONLY issues concerning your daughter.

Now, she will be angry at first. She will say things on your voicemail like "I knew you didnt really love me." And other crap like that. Dont listen to it. Instead, you continue to stay dark, and if you must...just continue to send her copies of the PBL. It is where you state what theterms of surrender are for your wife. Where you take control of the marriage. Where in her lostness, she will have a map on how to get home.

So, write it and get it up here.

You have done great!! Now, it is time to close the deal and get into Plan B (I love Plan B!!). You may think it will cost you your marriage, but it usually does not. If she doesnt come back after Plan B, she never was going to. But what Plan B does is allow the consequences of her actions to take themselves to their logical end. She gets to see the future.

And in most cases, they do not like what they see. And my bet is your wife will also not like the future she is creating.

In His arms.


Standing in His Presence

FBS (me) (48)
FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
"If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"

Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
Mortarman #1392408 09/22/05 11:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
OK, Next tuesday (27th) I meet with my councilor guy who wanted to help me with this letter. I'll make that "plan B" day.

Now to figure out the letter.


I've got a lot of questions about the boundries to set. THis will be tricky...


D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392409 09/22/05 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
Here are some of the "boundry" things that I am pondering. I'm not expecting you guys to tell me what to do, but any advice is cool.

WW currently owes me some money for bills. She will pay me when she can, but I am worried that plan B might make her try to jerk me over.

WW has LOTS of stuff still at our house. If I was to try and box up her things, it would take more than a weekend. And, I dont have anywhere to put them at her APT. Maybe I could just specify that if she wants to come get any of her stuff, to do it when I am at work?

What about other things that she might want? If she suddenly wants "our" blender (for example), do I talk to her about that?

How SHOULD we communicate? Text messages? Email? Voicemail?

When I am dropping off/picking up daughter, what should I say? Nothing?
------------------------------------
I'll drop off her mail from our house, by leaving it in her mailbox when I pickup DD.

----------------------------------
Please help me sort this all out...
Its not as easy as just saying "no contact"


D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392410 09/22/05 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,715
O
Owl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,715
Obviously you plan all of this out before you attempt to implement Plan B. For example, you could box all of her stuff up at the house and move it into one room (if you can), and then when you implement Plan B you let her know that she will need to decide what she's likely to need between now and when she makes her decision to stay or go.

Contact a lawyer on how best to protect yourself with the bills and fincances.

Join items should stay at the residence with the child...to ensure that you're properly able to take care of your kids.

Dropping DD off and picking her up can be either done through a third party or she can simply bring her up to the door and knock and walk away...no need for interaction between the two of you there.

Anything else can be handled by a third party that you can have assist you (like a family member or mutual friend).

Owl #1392411 09/22/05 02:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
Quote
Obviously you plan all of this out before you attempt to implement Plan B. For example, you could box all of her stuff up at the house and move it into one room (if you can), and then when you implement Plan B you let her know that she will need to decide what she's likely to need between now and when she makes her decision to stay or go.
As of now, she's gone. It'll be interesting to see what she does now.

Quote
Contact a lawyer on how best to protect yourself with the bills and fincances.
I'll try and get her to resolve some of this now before I start the "plan"

Quote
Join items should stay at the residence with the child...to ensure that you're properly able to take care of your kids.
You'd think that, but as it is now, we are sharing custody all the time. I've got plenty of stuff for our DD though.

Quote
Dropping DD off and picking her up can be either done through a third party or she can simply bring her up to the door and knock and walk away...no need for interaction between the two of you there.
I guess the walk away approach might work. We are picking up and dropping off way too often for a 3rd party to do it.

Quote
Anything else can be handled by a third party that you can have assist you (like a family member or mutual friend).
She has no family around here, mine live about an hour from here. I guess that would work for things like moving, but not for day to day activities.

I'm in a lot of pain now, and this seems like it is going to make it worse... I hope I'm wrong...

Gramn #1392412 09/22/05 03:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 794
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 794
Gramn; Just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you. I'm a big fan of yours; nobody could have done better in your very trying situation. When you feel the pain try to remember the serenity prayer. Some things are out of our hands. Good luck in the days ahead!

Gramn #1392413 09/22/05 03:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,023
Very often our experience of life and other people is painful - in fact, it is often only through painful experiences that we start to know ourselves and grow stronger.

It will be difficult for you. But, you will need to detach from her if she continues on to a DV. If not then, hopefully, you will have preserved a bit of your love for her in case she changes her mind. Many a

It will be her loss if she waits too long, you have fully detached, and decide you don't want her back. Your life needs to stop revolving around her and being at her beck and call.

You've let her know the man she will be missing by your plan A. Even though young women push for all the power we really want the man to be the stronger one and not a push over. Once a woman gets all the power in a relationship, many times she loses respect for the man and starts to abuse the power in one way or another...either belittling, or just generally disrespecting.

Ultimately, in recovery, there will be a balance and a healthy give and take. There is still the ideal order in the family with the man as the head under the authority of God.

You are better from a position of strength than of weakness.
Discuss potential problems with finances etc. your attorney.


Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
Trix #1392414 09/23/05 08:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
Thanks for the thoughts.
I've been trying to rebuild myself a little bit, but I still feel like utter crap.

I was saying to someone that the "Discovery" phase was almsot better than this, because there is some goal to work toward. Now, I'm just waiting and trying to figure out what I want and what she wants. One painful day after another of uncertainty.


D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392415 09/23/05 11:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,712
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,712
Quote
Thanks for the thoughts.
I've been trying to rebuild myself a little bit, but I still feel like utter crap.

I was saying to someone that the "Discovery" phase was almsot better than this, because there is some goal to work toward. Now, I'm just waiting and trying to figure out what I want and what she wants. One painful day after another of uncertainty.

No, no, no...Gramn.

Up until now, she has been in control. Up until now, she has set the agenda, the schedule. She has decided what this marriage will look like, what your family will look like. She has made almost every decision. Of course, as in typical WS fashion, she has been wrong about almost every decision she has made.

Plan B changes EVERYTHING!!! No longer does she get to set the agenda. She cant "just be friends." She cant expect you to be there for her at all. She cant expect you to listen to one request, or make one concession. She doesnt get to make one decision concerning this marriage and this family.

Yes, while the two of you share custody of your daughter, there are some joint decisions to be made. But in reality, the court has laid down the line and she really doesnt get to go over it. Up until now, you let her because you were in Plan A. In Plan B, she gets to count on you for nothing.

In the meantime, Gramn gets moving on with his life. He begins to put his financial house in order, his legal position in order. He begins to work out, to concentrate on the things that will make his life better. He begins to prepare for a life without his wife. Certainly, without his WW. He is no longer caught in the day-to-day grind of what the WW is upto. In many ways, he begins to get to the point where he could care less.

Not so with his wife. You see, before...she could care less about the marriage. But now that OM is gone, and Gramn is in NC, she will suddenly have an interest in what he is doing and where he is headed. She will be scared that she will be alone and hurting forever. She will be scraed of losing her daughter. She will be scared of losing Gramn. But she cant get her fix on him, she doesnt know where he is at. he is no longer under her thumb, where she can believe that he is just sitting there for her. Instead, he has written a letter to her and said that he wants no more contact with her (at least until she is ready to re-enter the marriage). She will see this as he has given up. But she wont know for sure...because everything is dark in the fog.

Gramn, you will hear shouts out of the fog, crying out of the fog. Anger out of the fog. She will be scared because it will have become incredibly dark.

And all of this happened because YOU made it happen. Yo uare in control. You are at peace. You are moving forward. And unlike your wife, YOU have a plan!! She doesnt want to read books about affairs because she doesnt want to feel guilty. But guess what? Without understanding herself and what has happened, then she doesnt have any accurate information. And without that...she has no plan!

Another HUGE thing to this. By doign this, you have Biblically done what Scripture says. It says that if the believer does not repent once their sin is brought to them, then you take her before the church (you should do that immediately...I can tell you how to do this). If she refuses to come or refuses to live as your wife, then the church will make the decision to treat her as a sinner or tax gatherer. This is what you are doing. You have released her into the realm of Satan so that she can be brought back. How? Well, with her outside the protection of God, things will get incredibly worse for her. She will be overwhelmed by Satan and his demons. Things will go incredibly wrong. She will lose a lot of sleep, as there is no peace in her life. This is how God deals with unrepentent (read: rebellious) Christians.

So, you see? It means that in Plan B, you get out of God's way. You turn her over to Him so that she may be won back to the faith. And by being won back to the faith, she will be won back to the marriage. Or she will continue to run from Him. And in that case, you do not want to be anywhere near her because running from God will get Daddy putting a severe butt-whopping on her behind. He will nto be mocked!

So, stand by to be at peace. I was nervous about Plan B also. Go back and read my threads in Oct and Nov 2002. Then look at my threads in Jan 2003 when I finally had instituted a good Plan B. While we think that our spouses are different than others, they really arent. Remember, you were nervous abotu exposure...that she would hate you...that she would immediately run to the OM. Hasnt happened. Instead, it worked out as planned.

I know this stuff goes against how we "feel," but much of this marriage building is going away from feelings and going towards what is known about affairs and love and marriage.

This is just the next battle in the war Gramn. You are winning! You have ended the affair. You have put doubt in your wife's mind about whether this will work or not. You have held this family together. Now, you get to press forward and lead this family out of this mess. If your wife chooses to come (and most do), then your marriage has a chance of being better than it ever could have been. And if she chooses to stay in the fog, then you really havent lost anything, have you?

You are in control now Gramn. The alien is now cornered and defeated. You get to set the surrender terms. The alien must leave and return your wife to you. There are no negotiations.

In His arms.


Standing in His Presence

FBS (me) (48)
FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
"If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"

Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
Mortarman #1392416 09/23/05 11:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
Ah, MM, what a grerat motivational speaker.

Now I have to get this letter ready!!


D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392417 09/23/05 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310
MORTARMAN IS A GIFT FROM GOD!

What a blessing to you to have him on this road with you, Gramn...

He carried me the whole way through MY PLAN B nightmare...

I listened, most of the time, and here I am 2 years into RECOVERY with a better marriage than ever...

I pray this for you GRAMN...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1392418 09/23/05 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
While I am figuring out what to write, could you guys show me some good plan B letters to get ideas from? I already have one from "Grapegirl"... But more might be helpful.


D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392419 09/23/05 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 794
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 794
Gramn; if I'm reading right it's about 4 months since yr 1st post on this thread? A lot has happened in 4 months. Although things could be better, to me it looks like they've improved in that time. I think you have a real shot at making a new better M.

weneedhelp #1392420 09/23/05 03:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,224
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,224
Gramn, I hope GrayCloud doesn't mind me reposting this, but it is one of the best Plan B Letters that I have ever read and I think it may help you. It's a perfect balance of strength and forgiveness. I've underlined the parts that I know do not reflect your situation, but they can be ommitted or easily rewritten.

I hope it helps.

__________________________
Dear ________,

In all our years together, I never imagined us reaching the point where we are today. I love you more than anything else in this world, and I want to remain married to you. I am sorry for the things I did - and did not do - that helped make your infidelity possible. I look forward to a future where the parts of me that made it easier for you to turn away are gone forever.

I have told you I will always be there for you, and that I mean to forgive you. But your affair continues to inflict great pain on me. (Maybe add, "Your continued reluctance to work on our marriage inflicts grain pain on me", or something to that effect.) This pain challenges my ability to forgive you, and will eventually destroy my love for you. I know that you are also hurting and I would give anything to help ease your pain. I truly believe in forgiveness, healing, and redemption for both of us. But to preserve my love, I cannot see or talk to you any longer. If you end your affair and (maybe just omit this) choose to discuss returning to a life with me, I will welcome the discussion. Until that time, it will not be possible for me to have any contact with you.

Please respect my decision. If you need to communicate with me, please find someone in your family to pass your messages along. If there is anything you still need from the house, have this person contact me, and I will leave the items in the garage for you to pick up. I will continue to cover my part in our shared expenses as I have throughout the summer, and I trust you will do the same.

-------, my wish is for us to create a new relationship, to build a new life where each thing we do, every day of our lives, makes us both happy as it once did. My willingness to do this in the worst of times is part of the promise I made to you ___ years ago. And I do still believe in you. But right now, letting you go and distancing myself from your actions is the only way I can protect my heart. I don't do this in anger. I need to restore some normalcy to my life so that I can remain healthy, find some measure of peace, and continue to grow as a human being.

Remember me, I'm the one who loves you.


[font:Arial Black]
JUMP!
-- and you will find out how to
unfold your wings
as you fall.

- ray bradbury


[color:red]
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
G
Gramn Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 781
That IS a good one!


D-Day 6-13-05 Plan B began 9-29-05
Gramn #1392422 09/23/05 04:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,539
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,539
Gramn, I agree that GC's PBL is one of the best I have ever read.


Faith

me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
Page 91 of 114 1 2 89 90 91 92 93 113 114

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,027 guests, and 52 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5