Then I suspect you will have to do a lot of dating to find Mr. right.

In the scenario you described, I would've cancelled our date for several reasons.

1) When I date somebody, I don't like time limits, so meeting early and then meeting my friends later denies the opportunity for the evening to go whither it will.

2) When I date somebody, I want my full attention focused on them, not being distracted about what might've been or looking at my watch because I want to catch up with my friends later.

3) Stuff happens. We're not engaged, we don't have an exclusive arrangement, I think a little flexibility is called for, and a little grace and understanding.

So I would hope you would give me another chance, although I hate to use the word chance, because I didn't do anythign wrong in the first place. And as much as down south, the behavior may not be acceptable, in my world, it's OK... So again, a little grace and understanding. I would hope we would have another opportunity to go out and that everything would line up like it should.

It would seem like "spite" seems to be a motivation for what you choose to do in your dating... And because of your hectic schedule, that other person better dance to your tune... I would hope that is not the case and a mischaracterization.

I'm seeing this issue from all angles. I agree, Peachy, that you expected to much too fast came on a bit stronger than you should have. I think I'm beginning to understand what you mean by serial daters. I, too, live in the Atlanta area and I know why you are disallusioned with the incredibly horrible "dating scene" here. For those of you unfamiliar with the city, Altanta has always had something of a reputation as a party town. However, in the 15 years between the first time I lived here and now, something happened to it. It became something of a parody of itself. The dating scene is primarily focused on club hopping in Midtown and Buckhead looking for hook-ups (one-night stands in the new parlance). There's absolutely nothing wrong with this is that's what you are looking for, but the relationship minded, this is a tough town.

I'm a man and I know how so many men think. They aren't interested in having a relationship for a woman. They are interested only in sex. They will, however, tell a woman anything she wants to hear to get her in bed. Then when they get bored with it, they move on. Some men have become rather callous about this. A woman I work with was interested in a man she had met and gave him her phone number. He never called. But she kept running into him and he kept asking when they were going to "get together." She told him she'd given him her number and to call her up and they'd set a date. He told her that he wasn't interested in dating her, but only wanted to f**k her. Unbelievable, but at least he was completely honest about his intentions.

In Peachy's case, this man made a first date with her and then broke it only one hour before it was supposed to happen. He did this only because his buddies were in town and he wanted to see them. This indicates that he is not only childish, but also woefully inconsiderate. The guy's a cad and a total looser, and Peachy is justified in her displeasure with him, even though she was expecting too much too soon. To be honest, I strongly suspect he was lying about his buddies. I've heard guys use this lie so many times. What is more probable is that he hooked up on a sure thing for a bedroom romp that night and Peachy was a maybe at best.

Peachy, If I may offer you some advice.... You are 36 years old and the dating game probably isn't going to provide you with what you are looking for. Remember, those playing the dating game put themselves forward in their best light. It's really all about marketing and sales, and as with anything else, the ad is far slicker than the product. This is especially true of on-line dating. These sites really are little more than the dater's on-line catalog. If all one wants is a series of meaningless dates or to hook up for sex, they can be useful. But if you're trying to find Mr or Ms Right, they aren't terribly useful. If you think about it, on-line dating turns relationships upside down. One must attempt to make an emotional connection before making a physical one. That's backward from what it's supposed to be. Normally, one finds oneself physically attracted and will then want to get to know the person better. This is one reason why on-line dating is so generally unsuccessful. In the preliminary stages - the on-line chats, emails and phone calls - you must operate without one very important aspect of the communication process: the visual cues. So , more often than not, when you meet the person, you find the "chemistry" isn't there or that now that you are getting the nuance of body language, the person really isn't who he or she seemed to be. So you flit from date to date and it's easy to become discouraged and disillusioned. ThornedRose suggested that dating around will give you greater persective and this is true. But if this is done right, you must make a considerable emotional investment. This gets harder and much more draining as you get older. Personally, I am beyond having any desire for subjecting myself to a string of women wondering if this one or the next will be the one with whom I will make a connection. My experience has been that every woman I'm met with whom I have made that connection, has been somewhat accidental, or at least incidental. It has never happened on a "date."

In Peachy's case, this man made a first date with her and then broke it only one hour before it was supposed to happen. He did this only because his buddies were in town and he wanted to see them. This indicates that he is not only childish, but also woefully inconsiderate. The guy's a cad and a total looser,
____________________________________________________________

Check,

I have to disagree with your statement above. I don't think it is childish at all because he broke off the date to be with old friends who happend to be in town for the weekend, and then to call him names is really uncalled for.

I had a similar situation happened with my now bf when we first met. We had been chatting, and talking on the phone for about 2 weeks and were supposed to go out. He called at the last minute to tell me that his friend was in town for 2 days and he wanted to spend time with his friend before he was to get shipped off to Iraq. I totally was understanding about it. There was a moment where I had doubt about his story becasue I was use to being lied to by my EX. I had to remind myself that I cannot judge this man by the way my EX had treated me, I had to give him a chance.

I personally would have felt uncomfortable if he had invited me to join him and his friends. To me the first date is a private time for two people to talk and get to know each other.

I'm glad I was understanding and gave him the oportunity to set up another date with me, because this man had been wonderful to me. We have been together for 9 months now.

Maybe I'm old school. But if you are really interested in a woman, you'll keep the first date and catch up with your buddies later. I was raised to believe that what Peachy's fellow did is very, very rude, not to mention disrespectful. Did I miss something? I read that he broke the date and that they'd have to get together another time. Or did I misread this?

I'm not saying it's always a walk-away offense to break a date at the last minute. Sometimes things come up that you can't avoid.

amen checkurheart, you snooze you lose, see your friends another day....or more realistically, make all of it work... it amazes me how willing people are to give this guy a walk, no woman worth her salt is gonna put up with this...is one thing to be asked for a "change", people are willing to adjust/accomodate (as itsallabout mentioned above), but peachy was not asked, she was blown off, and subsequent events just confirmed her intuition...

No, but you missed a major point of my post, was that a little grace and compassion and understanding was called for. Just because it's how you were raised, doesn't mean that the rest of the nation was raised that way. Heck, if
you've done any traveling, you'll see wide variations on how people treat each
other from coast to coast. People raised in the West have a very hard time moving to the East and staying (not in all cases, but I know of a bunch that have tried an dcome back), because people are just different on the opposite side of the country. Doesn't make either of them right, doesn't make either of them wrong, it's just different.

While the 1 hour notice would not have been my first choice, I would much rather show my date the respect she deserves by being able to focus my full attention on our date, rather than having my mind split by being on the date, but also being reminded of the time I'm missin gout with my buds, who it might be quite a while before I see again as well. The date is just a date...

Was it optimal? No. Was it rude? In some circles. Was it a lie? We have no way of knowing. But the immediate assumption was that he's some kind of sleazeball, as opposed to a guy who thougt things through and then just made a choice differently from what you chose. Doesn't make him wrong, doesn't make you wrong, it was just a different choice.

And a gain, a little grace is called for. But let's not judge the guy too harshly, or better yet, not judge him at all, since it accomplishes nothing.

Ok..

Sorry not here...I got rear ended by some jerk on wednesday on way home from work and have been off work for 2 days as I am very very very sore. Going to see doc today...

Update: YES! He lied. He had met a girl. We had TALKED and that for 2 weeks after emailing for some time. We actually know same folks as he works at hospital I used to work near. so there was some common ground...actually tons of it.

He emailed me today and apologized. He had spent most of last weekend with her and claimed his cell fell into the lake...fun huh? I sent a succinct email back to him saying he should have told me that earlier as so I could make alternate plans.

Please don't try to analyze me ok? I am asking about dating...I do everything my never married single girlfriends are doing...

And I'd agree w/poster who said that it's worse online than in a bar.

For example,. this is a case of a serial dater...He emails me 2 times this week. He emails me today. He tries to set something up. He says for coffee. I IM back and say that will be fine when I feel better (wreck). He says "not too much time, I am trying to get a feel for who I like and whom I do not like". I say, yes, I can get that, but I AM NOT A CONTESTANT ON ELIMIDATE...and that it is best to get to know somebody a little bit rather than relying on solely good looks. That guy would be considered a serial dater...He could have girls lined up for coffee...man he'd have the jitters by late evening if he keeps it up...

Like first at 9 am. Second by 12 pm. Third by 2 pm and so on. See? And then there are some that pretend they're just talking to you only...and are secretly dating somebody else. It is also about timing, and when I dated, long long ago, it was after you met somebody at college, or out w/friends. It was pretty up front.

At least G was honest enough and had enough of a conscience to email me. And in the last part of his email to me, he asks if we can still talk...that he's missed our talks. I told him in my response that I was opening up my horizons as quite possibly I was wrong in only talking to just him period.

This is a serious problem to the online daters out there and we need to watch out for it. And yes, I have heard of girls scheduling 3-4 dates and then choosing one and leaving the other 2 guys out in the dark. This supposedly happens all the time as well. And yes, 2 of my single girlfriends, never married, are online too and have told me all about this strange phenomena.

Why is it people do that? If you're gonna have a few dates, schedule them on different days. Go on all of them. See who it is you click with and who not. Then be honest and do what you feel. I don't get with the other stuff...

Since I'm starting AGAIN on match.com, I'm wondering how to avoid this. I'm wondering if some people don't INTEND to lie, they just don't know HOW to tell each person about the other dates.

You're helping me think through this a bit. It's important to be honest and open. I should be honest and open with the men I'm talking to about my other dates. And I should encourage them to tell ME about theirs, so they won't worry about hurting my feelings. I would hate to think they would hide it from me to avoid hurting my feelings, but they may not know how to tell me... they may not KNOW that I WANT to know.

This is a guys night. He can't tell them that he wants to bring her, it is against the guy rules. He had to change the date, OK. I dated for many years and married later in life than most. Why not try the 3 strikes and you are out rule.

Then again, they only treat you how you allow them to treat you, so if this is not OK with you, then blow him off. It does sound like a good reason though. Hugs.

Not be judgemental about potential partners? Oh, you sure better be judgemental, especially when it comes to on-line dating. Being judgemental and setting strict boundries up front can save you a lot of pain down the line. Peachy's last post confirms my suspicion. And then he has the unmittigated gaul to tell her that she's a "contestant on Elimadate" (l love that). Before he's even met her! I stand my original statement. This guy's a cad, or at least emotionally retarded.

I've done extensive travelling, Jaye, and good manners are good manners everywhere. And, hey, Metro Atlanta is a city of 4.2 million people. Only about 35% of those are natives; everyone else is from somewhere else, so this place is a melting pot. It is never acceptable to break an appointment/date on an hours notice unless one has absolutely no other choice.

Faith1, on-line dating deserves its own thread really. Yes, if asked if you see other men, you should answer honestly. A man with his head in the right place isn't going to have trouble with this in the early stages. What should be off limits is questions about the other men you see and what you do with them. That's none of his business. If the two of you hit it off, the conversation about exclusivity will eventually come up. In my opinion, this conversation happens much too soon. There's nothing wrong with dating multiple people within reason. For example, if a woman were to tell me she is seeing one or two other men socially, I'd have not problem with that. If she's seeing five or six and is in the streets every night, I most assuredly would.

BTW, Peachy, I farmed your situation with this guy with single women in in my office as a hypothetical question. Only one woman, something of a party girl, thought the guy's behavior was acceptable. All the others said that he was a jerk and that he wouldn't have got a second chance. The women in their 20s said that it depended on how he handled it, but probably wouldn't see him again. The women in their 30's thought about it for a moment before answering, but the 40+ ladies didn't need to give it any thought at all - flat out, dump him and move on. I guess we get less tolerant of games as we get older.

This reminds me of the advice about job interviews, you got one shot to sell yourself, better make it good....can you imagine getting a "second" interview after blowing off your schedueled appt, and then telling the hiring person you were checking out a better job offer....whoooeee.

Another thought, I wonder if those who are making "excuses" for the guy, including you faith, are simply modeling enabling behavior? Something to think about...this isn't a casual who cares business, people are trying to find a good partner, that should be at least as important as a job interview doncha think?

How am I making "excuses"?

I'll try to clarify my post... if this doesn't explain better, please answer my question ^ ^.

If peachy's guy intentionally lied, (according to her description, he did), that's unacceptable. But what I meant, was that not everyone is at the same level of learning ... same level of growth in relationships and honesty.... not everyone has been to MB (unfortunately)... some people (as I said in my post) think that lying by omission to protect another's feelings is OK, or simply they don't know how to say it, so they avoid it. But then again, you don't have to open up your WHOLE life when you first meet someone. Like, "I just won't mention to Faith that I am talking to 5 other women right now, and have 3 dates lined up this weekend, even though I'm going to ask her to lunch Tuesday". Is that a lie? Is it his responsibility to mention it to me? Or is my responsibility, if I'm concerned about "other women" to ask him if he's talking to, or dating, any other women? Personally, I assume people on match.com are seeing/talking to multiple people at one time, until we decide we like each other and decide to be exclusive. If it's that way on match.com, why not anywhere else?

CANCELLING on me to go on another date, and LYING to me, and then EXPECTING to continue on with me like nothing is wrong is totally different, and unacceptable. He should have kept his date with peachy, or been up front, if the OW was that important to him. "peachy, I must cancel with you because things are goingreally well with this other person."

Peachy,

In this case I would say don't waste your time meeting him for a date at all, let him know you find his ability to be honest a little lacking and that is not what your looking for in a future relationship be it dating or marriage.

Under the orginal post, I will stand by what I said.

As I believe it's okay to give someone the benefit of the doubt until you find out as you apparently did, they are lying.

And I'm sorry to hear you were in an accident, I hope your feeling better soon.

knight,

I don't see it as making excuses, I see it as giving someone I have never met the benefit of the doubt, and trying not to place him in the same mold as someone else. Just as I would hope they would do for me if the role were reversed in the context of the orginal post that he had old friends coming in to town.

I choose not to think the worst of someone before I've actually met them. But that's me.

was just a thought, have no way of knowing, only thrown out there to contemplate... But I can say this, always giving people the benefit of the doubt is just as bad as never giving people the benefit of the doubt....each circumstance should be evaluated on it's own merits, and then choose a course of action. Con artists, thieves, narcissists, and a whole host of other opportunistic, self-serving types seek out those who give the benefit of the doubt without thinking about whether it is warranted or not.... true?

In this case, peachy's intuition proved to be correct, he did blow her off, and was not about some supposed long lost friends, just was so he could pursue another female....so at the very least he does not keep committments, not sure why giving such a person benefit is a good thing.

but sure if you have absolutely no reason (or intuition) something is amiss, and the actions of the prepetrator indicate remorse and willingness to make ammends, and you do not place yourself at any risk....you can choose to believe an acceptable excuse (and that you are not being lied too), and one more chance could be warranted. The thing is TR, people are a pretty perceptive bunch, and there will be a whole bunch of non-verbal clues which we should listen too....it is a judgement call.

wasn't analyzing you faith, was just noting you were willing to make excuses, so used you as an example to wonder if a willingness to make excuses for behavior we don't appreciate is related to a propensity to enable...that's all...sorry about the confusion, was not drawing conclusions, just wondering. The flip side of this is there is no particular reason to give a 2nd chance either, you snooze you lose, sometimes you only get one try...right?

Me too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Take it from someone who is stuck dating in a "market" that probably makes Atlanta look like a good old fashioned small town from the 50's - yes, try dating in the La La Land of LA.... That's right, where the girls are out looking for the guys in the Bentleys (of whom there are plenty), and who seem to have happily settled into dating as a way of life.

What I have learned by trial and error is never to develop a "relationship" via e-mail and phone. Yes, like you peachy, I had incredible "e-mail" and "phone" chemistry with some women - but words can be very powerful, and talk is cheap. We seemed to agree on everything, outlooks on life, parenting, relationships, etc etc... And then it would turn out that they had boyfriends, oops.

My point is that connecting by e-mail and phone is great, but it should be looked at as only a first step, and certainly should not be looked at as a relationship that warrants discussion of exclusivity. Sure, it might be OK to ask if the person is truly available (i.e. not married or in a relationship), but to press someone if they have any other dates scheduled is out of line.

There is nothing wrong with dating several people, especially if it's a bunch of first or second dates, without intimacy. In fact, I would probably prefer to meet someone who has a "healthy" (not slutty) dating life, versus someone who has not been on a date in a year and then asks me to be exclusive with her before I even meet her. Like I said, I want someone to choose me over all others (and vice versa) instead of settling for me because there were not other options.

It seems very "deep" and "special" to e-meet someone and find a connection - but it is usually a fantasy. Real connection comes from knowing the person over many months, not something that can be discovered in several 4-hour-long conversations. Like someone else observed, many "daters" out there (both men and women, let's not give the scum title to just the men <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) know how to say exactly the right things to make you feel special and connected. And it takes time to separate the stuff from the fluff. That is what dating is all about - separating the stuff from the fluff.

Go slow, have fun, and don't worry about whether your new e-mail contact will be your next husband - just take it one date at a time, while you too keep yourself available to other partners. Dating, healthy dating, is all about optimizing your choice. Nothing wrong with that.

AGG

And now that she knows he did lie about it.....

Well, to me, in this case, the lie is actually secondary (though a great big humongous secondary!)

I mean, am I the only one who was taught by my parents that once you make or accept a date with one person, you never cancel that date to go on a date with someone else instead? Not even if the really cute boy you really, really liked and asked to go to the dance first changed his mind and said yes after you'd already asked someone else who accepted. (Well, that's the example my mom gave when I was in high school!)

It's really reflective of the "trade-up" mentality that seems to be all to prevalent these days. I fell a lot like that's what was going on in my marriage - he was always on the lookout for someone else, I was just the backup plan (for 10 years of marriage?!?!?) Even though lying is a BIG issue with me, I can see TRs point abut lying to spare someone's feelings. But canceling a date to go on a date with another woman....total disrespect. That's someone who isn't worth wasting any time on.

You know, AGG, you are probably right about LA. LOL. Good advice you gave there. About those bentley-dirving wannabes and the women who pursue them: many of these guys living too large and on borrowed time. The women are shallow and materialistic and definitely not "wife material." There's an old saying that mothers used to tell their boys: the qualities that make a woman a good girlfriend are not necessarily those that make her a good wife. Shop for a wife and you'll have plenty of girlfriends along the way. This is true for women, too, which is why women who suffer from "bad boy syndrome" get in so much trouble. Mr. Sexy-and-Exciting may be charming, great in bed, and fun to play with, but there's nothing more to him beyond that. Meanwhile, the men who would make great husbands don't get a second look.

I've read "give him the benefit of doubt" a few times in this thread. I'd like to address this. You should give the benefit of doubt to those you care for, but not to a total stranger when it comes to affairs of the heart. I read a great dating advice column, written by a wman in an on-line magazine about a year ago. She started her column by saying that the easiest and least painful way to get out of a bad relationship is at the very beginning. Her advice was to keep a clear head and listen to your inner voice. If you catch your new fellow or gal lying, having misrepresnted him/herslf, manipulating you, pressuring you, or doing anything that makes you uncomfortable, walk away from the relationship then and there. You owe this stranger nothing more than a polite goodbye.

Some have suggested that a good place to meet potential partners is to attend semenars, take classes, etc. Good advice, but with a caveat. You'll find this advice in several men's publications and often presented in a predatory context. In other words the players know this trick, too. Other "advice" I have read for men include going to the produce section of the grocery and feigning ingornace or to a lengerie shop and pretend to be shopping for something nice for your mother or sister, but acting completely clueless about what might be appropriate and seek the assistance of your "target." See the problem here? Many men do these things only to meet women; they have no real interest in the activity at all. So right from the start they are being disingenuous. Do you really want to become involved with a man who would do this? What else isn't he being completely above board about?

At the start of a new possible relationship you have to be careful and a bit distrustful, since trust is earned not given. You don't give a new guy or gal the benefit of doubt. If Peachy's fellow had called the the day before and told her fiends he had not seen in a while were coming to town unexpcectedly and asked her if she'd mind rescheduling their date, it would have been gracious of her to accept this proposal. His action would have been consistent with MB principles. He didn't do this, but blew her off with an hour's notice. A red flag went up for her, and as it turns out, for good reason. Peachy dodged a player.