No, she is not denying...she has acknowledged over and over yesterday, and admits that she is wrong and has caused me much pain. I agree that she may (probably) will try to hide it, I doubt her sincerity that she will send cell phone back and cease ALL contact.

Who do I expose to?????? Call her mother and cry to her mother that her daughter is cheating? I'm sorry, but I just don't feel right dragging her family into this, and knowing her, her hot-temper, that could just end it all right now. A trapped animal can be more dangerous than an untamed one who is shown affection. Am I wrong?

Call the OMW? I'm considering it....

Exposure means exposing the affair to people who might hold influence on your wife or OM that could cause them to end the affair.

OM's wife, for example. Your wife's family, friends, etc...those that you feel would support your decision to repair your marriage.

Part of the deal you've got to get established is this...

1. Tell your wife that you want to be included in her NC email to OM. That YOU need to see this so that you see the sign that she's willing to move forward with your marriate.

2. You need to be notified and showed ANY contact made by OM to her...or by her if she breaks NC.

3. That she needs to realize that she has to EARN that trust back...it's not going to be automatically granted now that she's betrayed your so painfully once. It takes time...it takes work...and it takes her demonstrating a WILLINGNESS to become trustworthy again. That means no more secret accounts, providing you access to all of her email and phones and whatever.

Share my situation with her if you like...my post is over on the recovery board. My wife too hated this 'invasion of her privacy'...until she finally got out of the fog and realized that it was simply the only way that I could ever rebuild my trust in her. And once she had nothing to hide, she quit trying to hide anything. I STILL have access to her emails, computers, phones, etc... And I've granted her all the same rights to my information as well...it's only fair.

4. Let her know that you can completely understand her need to grieve the loss of her 'ABB days', or whatever. But that does NOT give her any kind of excuse to continue contact with OM, or to hold on to her illicit relationship in any way. Tell her that you'll be there to help her get over that grief and withdrawl as best as you are able to...it's what I did for my wife as well.

5. At the end of the day, let her know that she's an ADULT...she is RESPONSIBLE FOR HER OWN ACTIONS AND BEHAVIOR...and continuing contact with OM, engaging in activities outside the bounds of your marriage (both phyiscally and emotionally) is a CHOICE that she made...and that it's her CHOICE now to do the right thing. She can choose to keep contact with him if she wants to...but then she'll be forced to accept responsibility for that decision as well.

I had to remind my wife that it was her CHOICE to do these things...and that it was up to her to CHOOSE to do the right thing now...it took her nearly a month of withdrawl after the affair ended, but she made that choice, and has been happy with it ever since.

Hang in there...don't be argumentative, but do be firm and unyeilding. Don't accept responsibility for HER choices...make it clear what your choices are and what you DO accept responsibility for. Let her know that you love her, and that you can work through this...as long as SHE works through it with you.

Oh, and on the phone...you need to be with her when she mails it back to OM. Again...she needs to BUILD that trust..so by doing all of this out in the open instead of HIDING it from you, she's showing you by actions that she's willing to work on rebuilding your marriage.

Again...let her know that you're not invading her privacy...you're working to prevent her SECRECY in continuing to do something so hurtful and destructive to your marriage. That is NOT the same thing.

The defining moment of an affair is when one person starts HIDING something from their spouse!

Man, I wish my short-term memory was better...you guys all use the right words. Thanks for the input. I have to read and re-read all of your replies, but I still have trouble saying the right things, the best phrasings, and elelgantly when action time comes.

I am going to ask her tonight if she sent the cell phone back. I'll feel for it in the hidden side pocket in her pocket book. If it's not there, how do I verify that it has been sent? If it is there, should I just pull it out RIGHT NOW and confront her AGAIN? (I think I already know how you are all going to reply.)

I'm seriously toying with contacting OMW soon...like today or tomorrow. I am just trying to strategize over how to do it without "him" picking up phone. Also, what to say? I am cut off from email now, so I don't when he as work, so when I can call their home. Also, if she works during day, I might not get her anyway. I don't to get him.

Someone help me out on what to say to OMW? Please?

Also, I know you are all trying to be helpful, but I don't think that there is a one-size-fits-all for all situations. Maybe there are plenty of spouses where it would be effective to go their family, and that would be a great way to end affair. But I know my wife well enough to know that the embarrassment and anguish would be so strong as to push her away even more....most likely completely. She would hate me for all time, and never recover. She is that hot-headed, that is her makeup, that is how her resentment is handled. Also, what would I do, drive over to her mother's house and cry, "your daughter is having an affair.....:( cry, sob, cry). No, I don't think I can do that.

Also, for whatever it's worth, I can't see her main email right now because she changed her password, so I don't know what's going on there. But on the band guestbook site (where I first discovered in May), and where she also sends private messages, she has not been on since I confronted yesterday. She is ALWAYS on 8 hours a day at work, and she has not logged on once at all today. No activity. Maybe she is holding her word that she is breaking off from all ABB activities? I dunno. But it shows when members are last active, and I can see that she has not been on at all today. That is HIGHLY unusual. As I monitored throughout summer, she was on ALL the time. I had to wait for her to go to lunch or go home before I could log on with her credentials.

Hey buddy, do you HONESTLY think thet everyone who is giving you this advice of TOTAL exposure now did not at one time feel the same way you do. YOu don't think we were all terrified that exposure would drive the WS out of our life's for good? Come on. PLease don't fall into the time old traditional BS trap of thinking your WS is different. Exposing her to her workplace and parents and friends will NOT be the reason that your marriage does NOT recover. Why are you worried about being stung by a bee here, the HORNET has already stricken you.

If you rationalize exposre like YOU ARE DOING NOW, you are cutting yourself at your own knees. Your WW is NO DIFFERENT than a hundred other Wayward's here. Your situation is rather textbook.

IN my book, you really haven't exposed $hit. Please do so for the good of your marriage.

Sour.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Want, you are playing the total VICTIM. Melody and Send are trying to tell you this in a nice way. Either expose or file the D yourself. Without exposure, your M does not stand a chance in hell. So what if you expose and she gets mad and leaves. If that happens then she was going to leave anyway but only on her terms and at a time that worked out better for her. Is that what you want? I do not think so. Take control of the situation and stop taking her crap!!!!

Let me put it to you this way...do you HONESTLY feel that she's going to stop contact on her own, now that you've had this SECOND discussion with her? Do you TRULY feel that she's going to completely break off contact with OM on her own, that she's going to take the steps needed to re-build your trust and your relationship now, without you taking any further action? Do you think that she's going to change any time in the future to do these things based off of your actions or words so far?

If not, then it's very likely that exposure IS going to be the only way that she'll end it.

My case was a little different in some small ways...everyone was talking with my wife trying to get her to do the right thing, but like many WS's, she wasn't listening to them, she was only listening to OM. But when HE said that she shouldn't come if she was having second thoughts, that was the end of the affair for her. She went into immediate withdrawl...and while there was more contact after that, the affair itself was already in its death throes.

But, she had those second thoughts because of the doubts planted by me, and by everyone else who knew. She also knew that there would be NO coming back to me if she'd gotten on the plane and left to live with him...it was a line in the sand that I'd made VERY clear. It was non-negotiable.

In the end, you'll do what you feel is best. But remember that many of us have been in similar situations...had I not exposed to our friends and family in an effort to get her to start thinking, she may well have left to go be with him. I do know that I made it VERY clear what I expected the boundaries to be once she stayed...and that it was up to HER to decide if she wanted to work on our marriage. I knew I wanted to...

No, as much as I am denial, I know deep down inside that the pressure needs to be built up and kept on her.

I've got a double-wammy on my end here. Some of her friends are trying to talk sense into her, but she is around a crowd that is not helping the situation...many of her girlfriends are also WS's brought on by these concert extracuricular activies...going through middle-age, becoming unhappy with husbands and family life, finding love, fun and excitement outside of home. Her one friend at work (who is also WS) has actually encouraged her: My WS sent other WS a snippet of email from OM with lovey-dovey words and asked her friend "how can I ignore this/him?". Other WS replied: "you can't". Great. She's in the company of thieves. Yes, she does have some friends that are being judgemental against her...maybe I should use them as my allies...?



I hear this over and over from all of you...HELP ME OUT HERE...please...what did YOU say to family? How can I expose to family? What is the right thing to say? What are the right words? How do I just approach her mother/father/aunt?

Again, I didn't know about the whole MB thing when I went through this, so in my case I reached out to most of these people and simply asked them for support...I needed to talk with someone (I was TOTALLY devestated by this), and that helped. Additionally, I simply spoke with most of them and asked them to please talk with her and to try to get her to see what she was doing...in our case, throwing everything away for someone she'd never even met in person!!! It was pretty easy to see that she wasn't thinking at all clearly...your case may be a little different.

Basically, I'd approach the people you're talking about, tell them honestly that your wife is involved in a relationship with someone (give whatever detail you feel appropriate), and ask that they help you by talking with your wife and that they not enable her to continue this illicit relationship. Tell them that you're trying desperately to work on your marriage, but that you're not going to have any luck as long as she's still communicating with OM...and you'd appreciate anything that they could do to help you to convince your wife to end contact with him and work on your marriage.

You call them up and tell them your W is having an affair and you are trying to save your marriage. Ask for their support and prayers in helping to end her affair. Ask them to use any influence they have to help end this affair.

But, BEFORE you do this, you call up the OMW and tell her that you are sorry to inform her but your W is having an affair with her H. Give her all the facts and explain to her that you are trying to save your marriage. Ask her to do everything she can from her end to end contact. Give her your # and tell her she can call you anytime.

Then......stand back and watch the fireworks because your W will be PI**ED. You don't cry like a little girl when this happens. You pat her on the back and say, dear, I am sure sorry you are upset, but I will do what it takes to save our marriage, and that includes getting support from your family, my family and informing your other victim, the OMW. You stay calm, you don't let her bait you into a fight. Nor do you cry, cower, apologize, weep, or lovebust. Understand?

And remember, your marriage will survive some temporary anger, it will NOT survive an affair. So just keep reminding yourself of this when she turns her poison on you. It is all worth it.

Let me explain something very important to you, Want. Affairs thrive under the veil of secrecy. They are based on a fantasy and this is the only way they can survive. When you expose the adulterers, you force them to see how sleazy they look to others when they are forced to explain themselves to others. This is not only a huge dose of reality, but it causes them great embarrassment. This causes great conflict in the affair and makes the affairees ask themselves if it is worth it.

Do you think for one minute that the OM is going to lose his sole support, his wife, over some woman on the internet? Not hardly. I seriously doubt he is willing to take that risk.

Not that there are any guarantees, but there have been instances where the affair was ended the SAME SAY when it was exposed. In other instances, it hastened it's end.

What I have been trying to tell you is that you have a powerful tool in your hands that you are not using. You cannot afford to not use this tool, Want.

I would suggest that you make a list of all key family and close friends [not her mindmushed girlfriends], starting with the OMW and call them all in the same setting. It is best, IMO, to do this all in one fell swoop so that the affairees feel the full impact and so that they do not have a chance to pre-empt you and spin the story. It is vital that the OMW be the FIRST on your list.

And STOP allowing your W to bully you over your snooping. You tell her that you ARE watching her every move because she is untrustworthy. STOP DENYING IT! It is none of her business how you are snooping.

Yeah, well, I've already taken this advice to heart before I confronted again yesterday. The only problem, is that now I have no snooping methods left. Even though I denied, and only said I found cell phone, she suspected too much that I've been in email again. All passwords changed today, I have no way to snoop. I'm sure she will never use computer in house again so that I can keylog words and passwords. I'm screwed.

Then ya better get on the horn and start exposing, my friend!

She'll use the computer at home...she's a junky..she'll need a fix especially over a long weekend....

Plus if you expose at work.....they'll begin to monitor her usage there....

I have a question. You KNOW your wife is having an affair yet you're concerned over the ability to further "snoop"....what does it matter....? That she may be lying to you? She has, has been and will lie to you. She can't help it... so count on it.

There is no "quick fix" to your problem. This approach, if it is successful, is a long process and so is recovery. Plan on it. Plan on frayed nerves, little "skirmishes", big blow outs. What you can not do si allow your self to be a door mat.

EXPOSE!!! Plan A...then Plan B...

stop being wishy washy about exposure and losing her...cause the harsh reality is that you have lost her...and now you're enabling her...by not addressing everything you know....she is a liar...she is STILL LYING!!

Send nailed it: you found out what you needed to know via snooping. It won't hurt anything if you can't snoop now because you already know what you needed to find out, ie: she is in an affair. You don't need to keep snooping since you already know that.

Now, it's onto the next step: EXPOSURE.

As long as she continues sneaking around and hiding you can just presume she is in the affair and act accordingly.

I got to start taking Melody's approach...I'm too damn verbose...

Want...do you have an update?? How is it going??

Just got off phone with my wife at work...

My excuse for calling her was to ask her what she wants to do about marriage counselling next week (she said after confrontation on Sunday that she does not want to go next time, that she probably needs therapy on her own.)

I called this morning to clarify her statment, and she said yes, just cancel next week, and reschedule for next time...she is not ready to sit...she is too embarrassed and shamed to deal with right now, and just can't handle it.

I asked her, "did you send the cell phone back to him"?

She said that she did not have time yesterday, but she will try today. She said she sent NC letter yesterday, telling him that she wants to save marriage. She also reiterated that she needs time to grieve, that she is contacting all of her Allman Brothers friends and telling them that she is dropping out of scene to save marriage. I told her that she better not hold that against me, that she is grown woman, can make her own choices, and that I never asked she give up ties with the ABB fan club, but only ONE PERSON. She said that she has to, that it is all connected. I said fine, that is YOUR choice, don't you dare hold it against me.

She kept saying that I never truly gave her "the space" she requested after first D-day in May, and even though it seemed we were coming closer together past month or so, she claimed that she always felt pressured...that I was always looking for and expecting certain reaction, that my actions were overkill to compensate for 7 years of neglect, and she doesn't even want to talk to me now.

I told her, fine...you're right, I tried to give space since May but I was still "in your face". (And she is right on this...I'm aware of my own feelings and actions, and i see this true.) Part of my behavior was probably influenced by what I was reading in emails all summer.

I concluded phone conversation with statement..."I will completely back off and give you space...I will not approach you, say I love you, put my arm around you, or any of that unless you ask for it. I will wait for you to back to me. But I still don't trust you."

Of course, she doesn't trust me either...she is convinced that I am so smart that I can hack into anything and she will never have any part of herself back again. I didn't reply to that comment.

This is my strategy right now: I have no way to confirm or surveill anything via email/internet, etc. because all passwords are changed, and she will not log on to anything from home, and she even said that herself today.

So, she says she is going to send cell phone back. Fine. I will give her until Friday. Then on Friday, I will use one last trick up my sleave....I know how to "spoof" caller I.D., and will call the secret cell phone and spoof OM #. If she picks up, I know she is still lying, and then I will call OMW.

I want to give her benefit of doubt at this moment...I can hear in her voice that she is scared, embarrassed, shamed. I want to take her at word that she really wants to save marriage. So I don't want to smack the hornet nest if she is truly walking underneat the tree without molesting the hornets. But if she is still kicking the tree, I'll find out, then I'm going to smack that nest and release the hornets.

I should have called OMW over the weekend when I had the chance, before I confronted...but now I have to see what she is really going to do.

OK Want...

This may seem a bit harsh but I think that you're "playing games". I suspect that your wife will not and has not broken contact. Have you seen the NC letter?



I once said this here and I was asked this same question. Why would you give a liar the benefit of the doubt? You understand that she believes that if she gives you a "little " she can take a lot. That is what she has been doing for a while now.

Lastly, you will find that there are oodles of people here that will try an dhelp you but you must help your self. It appears, when I read this last post, that you're not familiar with or following MB principles.

If she does this or doesn't do this you're going to expose?? You understand that she is stringing you along so that YOU DO NOT EXPOSE!! You're falling into her trap....

Give us a call when you want help saving your marriage, because all of this is a waste of time and a diversion.