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I keep trying to get WW to identify OM. I don't really need her help with that - I can figure it out myself - but it's better if she gives it to me as a gift.

WW told me yday that if I continue to try to find out identity of OM it will empty her Love Bank. She sees that as a LoveBuster. That's surely pretty foggy talk isn't it? I can't imagine a nonalien saying that I'm not entitled to know the identity of OM, or implicity threatening she wont love me if I find out.

She sees MC alone in a few days: perhaps that will clear her head a bit.

She pledged to do whatever she can over the next few weeks to fill my Love Bank. That was refreshing! I've been doing same for her for a couple of months now, ever since I found MB web site and bought Harley's books.

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PS I had thought her main concern was for the welfare of OM's family. But now it seems she's more concerned that my knowing the identity will 'strengthen my hand against her'. She is still concerned about OMs family, but that's secondary.


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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WNH,

And you are surprised by that??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I think you need to stop asking her about the OM. I understand you thinking that it would be better for her to tell you, and I certainly agree. However, IF you really need to know, then find out. You don't even have to tell her you know. That leaves open the door that she will eventually tell you on her own, which is sort of the OTHER point of finding who OM is isn't it?

You need to know for yourself.
You need her to tell you for your trust in her.

She has not figured out that you will have a very hard time trusting her when she knowingly keeps secrets from you and she knows it hurts you.

She is still in withdrawal and I think it will be awhile for her to understand she is "safe" opening up to you. I don't have time today but if you have not read SKM's Chronicles you should. It offers some insight into how some WS's think and heal. You can find it by going to doing a search in the Recovery section and use the key word "Chronicles". She posted it about 2001-2002 I believe.

Hang in there, it sounds as if she is at least considering trying. That is a good thing.

God Bless,

JL

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Thanks JustLearning. Actually that's just about where we are. I think I have a pretty good idea who OM is - but I am waiting and playing dumb to give WW more time to gift it to me.

Our last talk was about how to build trust, we agreed that both of us want and badly need to get the trust back. Her 1st impulse often has the flavor 'Can you please just get over it and trust me again already!?'. But within a sentence or two she realizes we need to work together to rebuild trust. It's more like tennis than weightlifting - can't be done alone. We talked about some ways to rebuild trust. E.g. she accounts for all her time, she leaves her cell phone log unerased and lets me view it, she tells me her thoughts about OM from time to time, etc. On my part I keep showing her I love her and keep avoiding LBs. Any other suggestions?

Next step for me is to read SKM's Chronicles, thanks for the tip. I guess you've been around awhile!

I don't know if WW will come around and give me OM's identity or not. How long should I wait before just running with it on my own? It would be SO SO SO much better if WW gifted it to me! Any more ideas for helping WW see that more clearly or more quickly? Logic and reason seem to fail in this area, at least for now..

Why does it think it would strengthen my hand? Under our state laws, either of us can divorce the other, with or without adultery. And anyway knowing OM's identity is not the same as having proof of adultery. And if I were an ugly hateful person I could stay married and hold it against her for 40 more years, regardless of whether I know OM's identity or not. I just don't see why it matters so much to her. And it's not so much that she wants to protect OM's M; see above. What am I missing?


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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JustLearning: I tried searching for 'chronicles' also for the user name 'SKM'. No luck. Maybe too old to still be in the database? Any other ideas?

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I'll find it...hold on.


Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail. ~ Kinky Friedman
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WNH,

While Susan is looking it up, I think you need to ask yourself why you need this information. I know I would so that is not the question.

As I said before IF you need it to protect your marriage, ie: to make sure you know if OM contacts her, or she is around OM, then find out who OM is.

If you want revenge you must ask yourself "Is it worth the effort?"

However there is no doubt your W needs to tell you who OM is, because it represents a huge elephant in your living room that everyone is currently ignoring as if it is not there. You know that lump under the carpet is not a good thing, but it is not your carpet to life with regards to secrecy.

I believe we talked before about the difference between secrecy and privacy, well this secret will keep a wedge in your marriage although your W doesn't see why not. I wonder how she would respond if you told you you had a fling with a lady you met, but would not tell her who it was? I am betting she would want to know if it was: someone she knew, someone she might come across, someone that knows someone she knows, etc.

So her telling you is big, but if you feel you need the information for other reasons then go get it NOW. You don't have to tell her you know, but you may feel better knowing IF the reason you want to know is something useful to you and the marriage.

Just some thoughts. Got to get back to work.

God Bless,

JL

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Here you go ---> SKM Chronicles


Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail. ~ Kinky Friedman
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Thanks much Susan and JustLearning.

JL I understand the train of thought but I need to be clear. NOT revenge! No No No. That's not me. My intent is to do my best to work on the M - completely different. And from the 'work on the M' perspective, I don't think I need that info immediately.

I think I have some time. I guess the biggest problem with WW not giving OMs identity to me is the elephant problem you mentioned. It's hard to see how we can go forward with trust when there's such a big trust issue right there in the middle of the room. So there's the time pressure. The sooner we resolve that one, the sooner we can restore trust.

On the trust issue, I'm pretty sure she's still lying to me w/r/t/ the NC date. Probably a few days after what she's willing to admit to. I'm so doggone tired of her deceptions; it's hard for me to swallow and smile sweetly.

I think WW knows I would not consider revenge. I think. And I think her biggest issue is protecting herself from me, as it says above - but I don't understand that one. I would welcome any conjectures as to why she may think revealing OMs identity would strengthen my hand. Surely WW has a rational explanation even in a warped alien way... I tried just asking her outright, but she got mad and ended the meeting. Tactical error on my part.


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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JL Thank You for SKM's thread. It's really tremendously helpful to see through a WW's eyes. I would dearly love to be strong enough to be as supporting as SKM's husband. That's my idea of how a man should carry himself in life. Ok now for me to do some mental pushups to get in shape - I can see I have a LOT of work to do...

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Sorry make that Susan. No slight intended!

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Yesterday WW went bike-riding - an activity she used to enjoy with OM. In the past her rides were accompanied by misbehavior. I know for sure she biked alone yday. Then last night she slept in the other room where her cell phone is located. Pretty sure she had phone contact again. NC is starting to look like a joke.

This just 2 days after we had a heart-to-heart where WW said she's in NC and wants it to stay that way. Also that she didn't think OM will contact her, also that she could control her desire to contact OM, also she'd said she would keep me informed about any contact, or even any yearnings to contact. Doesn't seem to have held water. I'm pretty disappointed..

Still working hard to avoid LBs, work on her ENs, and demonstrate my feelings for her. Also wrote a note stating my love and respect for her, acknowledging my errors, asking forgiveness and promising to do better.

I think she's coming around. WW has started taking my feelings into account and has also promised to do what is necessary to make the M work. It would feel really good - if only the Contact hadn't torpedoed our growing trust.

How many tries does it usually take before NC sticks?


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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Maybe I can ask again what could be WW's fear of revealing OM to me? It doesn't seem like there's much extra risk for her beyond the current status where I know she's had an A but don't know with whom.

She said the fear is that it will 'strengthen my hand'. But I don't see that. I suppose WW may fear that - armed with OMs identity - I can gather more evidence. But in our state either of us can divorce the other without cause, so having evidence doesn't really seem to matter.

She's not as concerned with OMW, so that's not the primary reason either.

She knows for sure that I won't hurt her physically - never have and never will.

I just don't get it. If I could understand her train of thought it might help me to discuss productively with her. Any thoughts as to what she may be afraid of that keeps her from disclosing OMs identity?


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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Weneed,

Will you stop asking the same question over and over. You have been given the answers from the people here. What are YOU going to do, that is the question. You have not decided to find out or not. I suggest you find out, then decide to do with W what you will.

However, the call is yours and our speculating is of no moment. Neither is yours. Go get the data.

God Bless,

JL

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Maybe I can ask again what could be WW's fear of revealing OM to me? It doesn't seem like there's much extra risk for her beyond the current status where I know she's had an A but don't know with whom.

Her fear is this..... If you know the OM's identity, you can EXPOSE this sordid affair to OM's W, and then you'll have both you and OM's W on the lookout for continued contact. Plus OM will be living in a self-inflicted mess of his own, because he'll be busy trying to keep in touch with YOUR WIFE while defending the NOW EXPOSED AFFAIR to his own wife. Your WW's failure to cough up his ID protects their continued contact. Or, should I say, your failure to take the necessary steps to find out who the OM is protects their continued contact?

Continued contact can go on as long as you can't prove that it is. No "court ready proof" means you are taking the word of someone who's lied to you and deceived you, not to mention doing things behind your back right now. Your Wayward Wife.

So, what will you do now?

SD

Last edited by shattered dreams; 08/15/05 12:51 PM.

BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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Thanks Shattered. I'm so blind. Believe it or not, I've been taking WWs word for it that it's over and that she wants it to be over. That's why it didn't make sense that she wouldn't reveal.

If, as you say, WW wants continued contact, then that's my explanation. No doubt that's perfectly obvious to about 500 seasoned MB pros. It wasn't to me, but now I think I see it. Gosh I'm obtuse. I've had blinders on - not used to being betrayed and lied to I guess. What next? Start looking in earnest for OMs identity.


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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And start to understand what constitutes 'court-ready proof'

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I am guessing you don't have access to phone records to help identify OM?


Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
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Great, an Aha moment.

Yes, looking in earnest for proof that would stand up in a court of law. No "promises" from your WW, or heresay, just hard core evidence that a judge could look at and say "hmmmmm, I see by your phone records that you were still in contact, blah, blah, blah", or a Private Investigator's written report to you including recorded conversations, pictures of them together... you get the drift.

If her phone is a company phone, paid for by her business, you might have some problems. However, if I were in your shoes I'd consider at least a talk with a PI to see what they could do to help you identify the OM. Also, look into a keylogger for your home computer.... a full version that won't give itself away with a pop-up.

Also, you can get a recorder at Radio Shack, voice activated, will record both sides of a call on your home line. You need to know that it's illegal to do this, and you will need to make sure the device is well hidden if you choose to go forth with the purchase.

Be extremely cautious about getting caught, and when you do find out anything at all, be careful how you present it, so you don't give up your source. Post here for advice.

Have you snooped in her car, trunk, glove box, gym bag, purse, diary, journal, pockets of stuff she wears when she "might" be with him? Leave no stone unturned... they all make mistakes. Some so obvious you wonder why you didn't find out weeks or months before.... but you know about hindsight, eh???

Best wishes,
SD


BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04

***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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Big surprise this morning. Yday evening after her MC, WW had a lot of harsh words for me and promised to keep OMs identity secret forever. Then this morning WW left me a note with his identity. Really really mad note:

"This is not a threat but a FACT and a PROMISE. If you contact, call, visit - him, anyone in his family any of his associates or any of his friends I will file for seperation & divorce I will not send him a (NC) letter nor will you! It is over! Once again I have been broken down into submitting to you. I will not do it again. I have confessed, repented and now again ask for forgiveness. I want to move forward with trying to rebuild our marriage but I am not all sure it can be done. I do not think you or I are capable of the changes we need to make. .. I need you to CALL and SEE (MC) and tell him what has transpired.. (preferably today if possible) I never will talk about this again. Lovingly, WW"

Even though she is very upset, I think getting her to gift it to me was the right way to go.

In her mind, she was coerced into identifying OM. It was not coercion, just 100 good reasons why she should come forward and spill it. She was not forced, but she sees it as another in a line of coercions by me.

Really I've known his identity awhile. I just wanted her to come out with it as a gift to me and as a way to get her to (finally) end contact.

Rhetorical question: would it help to melt her heart if I tell her that (i) I've known for awhile and despite that I've been discreet, also kind and loving to her, and (ii) although I've known awhile, I have not contacted OM.

Anyway I plan to do as WW asks, to wait and see how her promise of NC goes. My thought is that if WW can stay in NC then it's over. If not then I won't be bound by her request and next step is to expose.


me: BH 53 WW: 48 Md 16 yrs
A#1 start May'05, WW told me June'05 but would not say OMs identity. Aug'05 found out OM ident. Sep'05 exposure & NC. In-house separation, D threats+attorney.
Oct'05 one-night stand with OM2
Oct'05 WW started A with OM3. Dec'05 Dday and NC.
Dec'05 I consulted D attorney. Late Dec'05 back in the masterBR. Recovering.
Late'07 started seeing OM1 again. Says 'its just lunch'. Yeah right.
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