Ok... yeah, I still miss my XGF, but sitting around wishing things were different when there's absolutely nothing that I can do about it is a rut that I don't want to be in, can't afford to be in.

So, I've jumped back into the dating world. In a big way.

I have decided (for many various reasons) that it's best for me to see more than one woman at a time right now. But, this is something I've never done before, so it is completely new territory for me. I'm not entirely sure what the "rules of etiquette" are. HELP!?!?

First, I'm not a player, don't wanna be. I know that different people come into a relationship with different assumptions and expectations. I absolutely don't want to hurt someone who is expecting (hoping for) exclusivity, when that is something I'm not ready to offer. And, I don't want to lie through ommision. So my question is, (and I've kinda asked this before) when is the proper time to bring up exclusivity?

I'm currently in contact with 4 women. One I've had a lunch date with and have plans to go out this Friday. We talk on the telephone every 2-3 days for usually over an hour. The second I've talked to on the telephone a couple of times (also over an hour each) and we have tentative plans to golf together. I'm thinking I would like to ask her to watch a concert with me this Sunday. The third is still in the email stage and the fourth doesn't get back into town until the end of the month, but said to look her up.

Ok... (and before you even say it, I've already been told that I'm thinking too much about this... )

How do I bring it up?

I've thought about asking them if they are seeing someone else, but that seems like a pretty personal question this early in the game. Yes? No?

On the other hand, pretty soon they are going to ask me what I did on such and such night and I don't want to lie to them. If I was out with someone, I want to say that I was out with someone. (also, "out with a friend" is still too close to a lie for my taste) But to tell them that without "preparing" them seems like it could be such a bombshell.

I suppose I could ask them what they thought of seeing more than one person at a time and let that lead into the discussion. That's a lot less personal than asking if they are seeing anybody else. I don't know. Any suggestions?

I just want to be honest with where I'm at and then let them decide if they want to continue seeing me.

My secondary problem is... how many is too many? I still feel like I want to meet more women (hmm, looking for validation of desirability perhaps?) but I don't want to inadvertantly be disrespectful. I suppose I'll know when my plate is too full when the time comes. Perhaps when it's not fun anymore.

[color:"brown"]TBG,

A dating guru for guys declares that you should only talk to or see a woman once or twice a week or else she will start to fall in love with you. So I would think that your first rule of thumb would be to limit contact with these women until you decide you want to get more serious.

I don't think there is a too many rule - as long as you can keep them straight, why not enjoy the company of many.

As you've seen from other threads here, once SF is in play women get pretty darn serious pretty fast - so you may want to think about that issue a bit. No advice from me - I avoid SF until I'm ready to commit to a long term relationship.

If you don't want to be a player, then I would inform a woman up front that while you like her, you are currently dating casually and would like to see her casually until there is a mutual decision to do otherwise...

V. [/color]

Here are my thoughts. If I were seeing someone more than once a week, I'd expect exclusivity, mostly because I simply couldn't fit in more than two dates a week myself.

I don't know what Emily Post or Miss Manners has to say on the subject, but I think you can ask if ladies if they are seeing someone casually during phone conversations, or during the date. You can also volunteer that as you are pretty new to dating, you are casually dating more than one woman.

I think the biggest danger is if you date a woman who has a lot of responsibilities, like me. Even though you are seeing several women because you have every night free, she only had Wednesday nights and every other Saturday free. You take her out those nights. She lets you monopolize her free time, and therefore, she becomes more serious about you than you are about her, because you're dating two other women you like just as well.

In general, thinking back to when I was in college and played the field... I only saw each guy once, or on special occassions, twice a week. They all lived in opposite directions and some were more than an hour away. The ones it worked best with were primarily friends. We each knew this was not ever going to be a serious relationship.

Edited to add:
The bonus of limiting the frequency of contact is when you do find someone special, you don't have to break up with the others. Say you only see someone once every 10 days, and you talk on the phone maybe twice in between. When you find someone special it's not a big deal if you suddenly don't call for three days, and when you do, you say, "Hey, while I've enjoyed your company, I found someone I really connect with, and I'm only going to date her. I hope you find the right person. In fact, my buddy Bob might be great for you."

If you're seeing a woman twice a week, and talking for two hours four times a week, break ups are a bear.

My rule when I got back into the dating scene was "a pair and a spare". Dating more than one person at a time kept me from getting too close -- and too physical -- too soon. If any asked me if I was seeing others, I casually stated that I was new to dating and taking things really slow while meeting a few people. The guys who didn't want to take things slow dropped me immediately. Players make out with more than one person. Daters see more than one person til they find one they want to spend special time with.

Mrs. W8ing

I think you shouldn't ask them if they are seeing anyone else but simply be honest about YOUR intentions: "I'm just getting back into the dating scene and I'm really not looking for a serious or exclusive relationship. I'm planning to go out with a few different women, at least for a while."

Give them the opportunity to decide if they are ok with that.

I agree withsunny that women get serious very quickly once sex enters the picture.

Here's the real deal. A date is just a date. You really don't know the person very well at first, so you don't just gush out the intimate details of your life to her. You must assume that if she's using an on-line dating service to meet men, she is, in all probability, seeing other men. After all, TBG, you're seeing other women. The important point is that it really is none of your business if she's seeing other men, just as it's none of her business if you're seeing other women. When does this become your/her business? When the sex starts; then I think you not only have a right to know, but it is important to know if there is also sexual involvement with other people.

How many is too many? That's a pretty individual consideration. For me, two is too many. I've never "dated" more than one woman at a time, not because it's wrong, but because it just isn't my style. I prefer to focus my attention on a woman in whom I'm interested, instead of juggling it between several. It really depends on what you want. If casual dating with no expectation for anything other than a pleasant evening of female companionship is all you want, see as many as you feel comfortable with seeing. But if your dating these women looking for potential mates, you'll be able to tell very quickly - usually in the first date or two - if a woman interests you enough to consider a relationship. If she doesn't, you move on. In this situation, you see one woman at a time. Women don't like being tried on like shoes.

SO true CheckUrHeart!!! Woamn don't like being tried on like shoes!

TheBigGuy...I think it's great that you are even here asking these questions first of all. I would be very careful about dating too many women at once. Woman do tend to "fall" faster than men do. Don't have SF unless you plan to be exclusive. If you do and then aren't exclusivie with that person she will feel used and be hurt. I promise you that!!!
You have eveery right to date who you want but just be honest about your intentions. I wish more men had a heart like you!!!! Good luck!

Thanks for all the input, you've given me a lot to think about...(as if I don't do enough of that already)

Actually, the funny thing is, I tend to be the one who "falls" first. Which is one of the reasons I believe I need to do it this way for awhile. I can get very intense, sweep women off their feet, force of nature kind of thing. I'm a classic GIVER in relationships. As for the SF question, it is SO wrapped up in my GIVER personality, I am going to have to be very careful.

Staying emotionally distant and more so, keeping women emotionally distant from me will be a challenge.

For me, I'm actually thinking that giving/recieving affection is going to be more of a minefield for me personally. Receiving affection makes large deposits in my LB.

By definition, we're on a 'date' which is different than if you're just going out as friends. If you like the person, then you're going to tend to be more affectionate with them. I think it might be hard for me to keep a low LB balance if they're good at meeting that particular EN. Something to be mindful of, I suppose. It would be easier if it didn't feel so good.

Sheesh...

Why am I doing this again?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Only two more suggestions TBG:

" I can get very intense, sweep women off their feet, force of nature kind of thing. I'm a classic GIVER in relationships. As for the SF question, it is SO wrapped up in my GIVER personality, I am going to have to be very careful."

Sloooooooow down and work on your TAKER before you get swept away again. If you don't you run too big a risk of hooking up with a taker. Bad. Very Bad.

"By definition, we're on a 'date' which is different than if you're just going out as friends. "

Eliminate this distinction from your thinking and you'll always have relationships with someone you first wanted as a friend.

Yeah... one of my bigger reasons for dating multiple women. Imagine, dating just because it's fun... what a concept.

And...

Getting more than one woman to fall in love with you only for them to get hurt goes against a GIVER's code. I'm more likely to think twice before pushing the right buttons.

Well, all I can say is that I hope I have many men to date when it's time. Must be nice Big Guy to have several woman to go out with. LOL

TBG, I'm going to goad you just a tiny bit more. If your giver is in control and you haven't made you taker strong (balanced the two), what is the point in dating at all? Dating multiple women for you will mean that you'll just be giving to multiple women. That ain't healthy; it'll just drain you emotionally.

Oh, if only I could be like you and consider dating fun! I've hated it my entire life. Maybe this is because I am an introvert. Extroverts often misunderstand introverts, thinking us the quite wallflowers, who sit alone at parties, sipping punch, and hoping someone will come talk to us (or not). This isn't true. We can appear just as outgoing and gregarious as an extrovert, but it sure does cost us more. Last year when I was dating, I would come home from a first date, not feeling elated, but completely washed out, even if I had a good time. I couldn't imagine trying to do this with multiple people.

Goad away...

Actually, the purpose of dating multiple women is to keep from "falling" for any one particular woman. I am ripe for a rebound, but I need the distraction.

Having a GIVER personality isn't any more emotionally draining than being a TAKER. You still get an emotional payoff, it's just different.

At first glance, a GIVER looks altruistic. I mean by definition, for a giver what is best for others is more important than what is best for youreself. In reality, when it comes to relationships, it is just a form of manipulation.

The drive behind what makes a GIVER give is to become so invaluable, so needed by the other person in the relationship that you "guarantee" they will never leave you. I mean, who would willingly leave such a good deal? Right?

I went out on two dates this weekend. Was my GIVER "in control" of the dates? No, but my natural propensity is for giving, so I worked on not "giving" and expecting nothing in return. I need to be more forthcoming with myself and with the people I'm with what I want, and that's what I plan to work on.

I am by no means an extrovert. By nature, I am a shy person. I am uncomfortable with people I don't know. I find it extremely difficult to strike up conversations with people I don't know.

My shyness is borne out of fear and there are ways to overcome fear. For me, it has been conditioning... getting out there and doing. Okay, so I don't strike up conversations just yet, but I can smile and say hello to people. I do that. And do it. And do it. Baby steps. All in the right direction.

I also think you have to be comfortable with yourself before you can be comfortable with other people.

TBG~~

I'm so glad you added this whole "giver" concept to your thread.
That explains so much to me.

I too still think of xbf, and still try to figure things out. But the "giver" personality explanation is him, completely. That was exactly how I felt with him. If he gave me all these things, then my needs would all be fulfilled. (but, it was healing I needed, and he couldn't do that for me)

Sounds like your doing well. I have no advice as I have not dated, with the exception of xbf.
But, I think multiples would be difficult.

My biggest fear would be getting their lives confused with one another, or worse, calling them the wrong name.

Check~~
I can relate to what your saying. I'm much better in life these days, but I was exactly who you are describing above.
So shy, I know people thought I was a snob. I don't consider myself real outgoing now, but I'm more at ease with it. I think life changes and age has a way helping us come out of the quietness.

Karona

TBG,

I am shy with new people as well, especially with women. I, also, like you am a giver. But I have decided that I am not balancing this with my taker, who I relegate to the background. Because of this, my ex took advantage of me. I enabled her taker, and boy, let me tell you, she took, took, and took, while giving nothing in return. I had to pay the price by having my EAs completely ignored to the point to where I was in a marriage pretty much all by myself. I became a wallet and a convenience, but nothing more. When I began to demand that my EAs be at least acknowledged, I found myself in divorce court. For the taker-in-control that was my wife, the free ride was over, so she wanted nothing further to do with it. Her OM would make no demands from her, since all he wanted were the female parts of her anyway. Until he gets bored with her, he'll feed her taker; then he'll move on.

This is the danger of not balancing your giver and taker. A giver is precisely what a taker is looking for. They can pick you out of a line-up.

Karona, I find it hard to believe that anyone except for the emotionally retarded can't determine very quickly that someone is just shy. Snobs are rarely shy. I believe that some very outgoing people deliberately try to make shy people uncomfortable. I think you've hit the nail on the head. As we get older and more comfortable with ourselves, we accept our shyness and, perhaps in doing so, overcome it to some extent.

Since we are on the subject of DATING more than one person, I was wondering about the correct terminology for "dating" and "meeting" people. This is how I interpret both terminology.

When I started to "meet" people, I was meeting one or two a day, for coffee or lunch. Talk to them and get to know them. If I feel that there were no chemistry or clicking of anything thing, then I would let them know, sorry.....I am not interested. There were 2 men that I liked and had fun with them, I saw both of them at the same time, knowing that the relationship would not go any where, because to me they were nice and fun to hang out with, but not for any kind of serious relationship. They both knew I was seeing other people, and there were no hanky panky going on at all.

Then I met my current BF, I was still hanging out with the other two, but as soon as I realize that BF was clicking and the chemistry thing was there, I was honest to the other guys and started "dating" BF.

TBG,

I also can relate about being the "giver", I am guilty of that and am in process of learning to accept being the "taker". In my marriage, I was constantly the "giver" and I ended up giving myself away. In my relationship with BF, he is also the "giver" and it was very hard for me, but I'm learning to enjoy it.

Check~~
Thanks for pointing that out. I never thought of "snob" that way. They usually go out of their way to be noticed, and that was never me, I tried to be discrete in situations, almost NEVER drawing attention to myself.
I was painfully shy growing up. It's just been in the past 10 years that I have blossomed so to speak. I have further to go, but I like myself better now.

I guess there are some benefits to the aging process. We improve, kind of like fine wine, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

Karona

Things I am learning...

1. Being selfish is harder than it looks.

2. It is impossible to be selfish and not hurt someone's feelings at some level.

3. Women REALLY like to talk. (but I already knew that one)

4. Denying SF because you don't want the consequences of SF is a frustrating place to be. (again, something I already knew, but more acute now)

5. I need to stop affection short of "making out". Past that point and it's hard to stop the momentum. (relearning that one)

6. Some of my friends believe kissing/affection should be an exclusive activity. One told me it should be reserved for my future spouse, until I asked her if that meant I shouldn't kiss until I was married.

7. Polygamy ain't all it's cracked up to be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (I mean, PMS x2? x4?, give me a break)

8. Old habits die hard. Once a GIVER always a GIVER? It takes conscious effort not to do it.

9. I can see where 2 is not yet enough (for now), but probably 4 may be too many if I want to meet more.

10. Having fun can be a lot of hard work...

Hey, TBG, the internet got kind of slow there for a short while today and I just figured it was all those women out there sending you emails at one time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Change 1 and 2 from "selfish" to "self-knowing" and no one gets hurt.

There are ways around 4. There ARE women out there who don't want a romantic relationship, but only a sexual partner they can trust. This is common with the younger crowd and they call it "friends with benefits" (FWB). There's nothing wrong with such an arrangement if the rules are defined up front and followed.

I would have thought that you had number 5 nailed down back when you were playing spin the bottle!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Selfish has negative connotaions. Putting what you want ahead of what someone else wants will "hurt" that someone else if they want something you don't want. By definition.

The person I saw on Sunday let her guard down and started liking me more than she should at this point. When I spoke to her later this week and discussed where I am at and what I'm looking for, it was a little hard. Because I knew at least in a small way I hurt her feelings a little bit.


Yeah, I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out if that's something I want. The guy part of me says go for it, but the girly part of me, I think, would still prefer that SF mean something. I haven't been faced with that decision yet, so I have more time to ponder.


Back when I would have played spin the bottle (when sodas actually came in bottles) girls were much better at "holding the line" (or maybe I was just clumsier). I don't want to get into a situation where she states what she wants, but then gets carried away in the heat of the moment. For me, to be respectful of her decision for exclusive SF, then that's where I feel I need to stop. Since all my previous relationships were exclusive from the get go, it's not something I've really had to think about before.