I have a GF that is asking me for advice on men. Since I am not ready to date, I don't have a clue on what to tell her. So I thought I would ask here and see what others think.

She has met several men, but doesn't feel attracted to them even though they seem great. So she finally meets this guy that she is attracted to and they go out. After a few dates, they seem to like each other. The problem is that he is not good with the phone. He doesn't always call as often as she would like. Then this past weekend they made plans with his DD. He was to pick DD up (she lives an 1 1/2hrs away) and then they were to get together for dinner. He calls my friend and tells her that DD doesn't want to come back to his place and he is going to stay there (in the area that he is originally from) for the night. But he would like to see my friend on Sunday and they will do something that he will be back in the area early. They talk Sat while he is moving into a new place and he says he will call her around 9-10am on Sun on his way taking DD back home. He doesn't call on Sun. She calls him to check and see what is up and if everything is ok. Has to leave it on his voicemail. When he calls her back around 2pm, she lets him know that she is not happy with him. She explains that she doesn't expect a whole lot, but would like to be respected and receive a call when he says he will. He explains that his life is crazy, but would like to see her. Could they see each other later. She wants to know if he is going to follow thru or perhaps he should finish moving.He said that he does have a lot to do, but would love to see her some time this week. He starts to experience cell service problems and they end losing the connection. She called him later and apologizes if she seemed rude(to his voicemail). He never called her back.

Anyway her question was, what is up with this guy? He clearly seemed interested, but she doesn't know what to think. I don't think she made a mistake by telling him what she expected, but now she is worried that he will never call her back and she really liked him. Does anyone have an opinion? Should she wait for him to call her or should she pursue him? I know she really likes him. I have heard that men just don't think like women, so I don't know what to think. Advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

My experience is that whether it is a man or a woman, if they don't call, they're not that interested.

If they don't call when they say they will (unless there is very good reason), they're just disrepectful. If she accepts being treated disrespectfully at this point, then things look pretty dim.

She's way too accomodating. He's not having to work very hard at it. Through his actions he is showing that she is not worth very much to him.

Sounds like she is way more invested in this relationship than he is. I think she needs to back up, guard herself emotionally and treat this as very casual. Even better, she should start looking for another man.

Tell her to get the book, "He's Just Not Than Into You." It explains this situation, exactly.

Regards,

BB

No doubt about it.
She can do better.

I can understand the problems with his DD and the change of plans. She has to accept that as a parent these things will happen.

But, I can't understand him not giving her the courtesy of a phone call.

Obviously, he is not interested in her, or he is not worthy of her. Either way she needs to look elsewhere.

Ditto everyone's answer.

I agree with what all of you are saying, but she is very hurt. He was the first guy after her D that she let in ever so slightly. She has dated quite a bit, but no one ever caught her eye. I know that she thought a lot about this guy. What I find confusing is that he seemed into her. He kept wanting to make plans. She really wants to call him, but I advised her against it. I think she will look desperate. However she wants to know what she did wrong and where he is coming from. I know that she also has the hope that he will call later this week. If he does, I don't know what to tell her to think or do.

Actually the whole thing scares me, because I am going to have to get back into this dating thing at some point and I can see that I don't have a clue.

BB,
I would love to hear more about what that book has to say.
Can you give a brief description?

Thanks for all your help.

He's just not that into you. USA Today article.

Zero calls, One Cruel Answer The Washington Post.

Just not into the games LA Times, He's just not that into you overkill.

OK ... so we are to take as gospel the word of a comedic actor whose only credentials are his own experience in life and who draws on his own experiences and a couple of very un-scientific polls of buddies to write this supposedly revolutionary relationship advice book??!!

I'm with the guy in the last article TBG linked to - I'm just not that into that kind of "expert".

CS

I don't think she did anything wrong, other than to show him that she is very interested in him. Like others said, he doesn't seem anywhere as into her as she is into him.

My guess is this - since she dated a bunch of guys and liked none of them, until this one, she must be quite picky (which is good). So she probably picked a real winner (which is good). Unfortunately for her, Mr. Winner probably knows that he is a hot ticket (or else she wouldn't have picked him), and probably has lots of other options to fall back on. So he is probably keeping his options open, which is probably bad for your friend.

AGG

It could mean nothing - or everything.

What is important here is if it is a pattern.

If he's usually good about calling back, and doing what he says, and he has a really good excuse for this time, then that's all it was: a busy weekend where things got a little screwy and he lost track of things.

If it becomes a habit, then either he is keeping his options open, or he is just that kind of person. And she has to decide what she is willing to tolerate. She can talk to him about it, but she shouldn't expect it to change if it is a regular thing with him.

As far as calling him - you know, for a while, I was with the "He's Just Not That Into You" crew, but.... It does seem an awful lot like playing games. If she wants to call him, she should. But before she does, she probably should take a step back and try to figure out if her expectations were reasonable or not. It sounds like maybe he bit off more than he could chew, and maybe they need to talk about managing expectations. I'd say it sounds more like he's the kind that didn't want to say no to her, so he didn't, even though he knew there was a good chance things weren't going to work out that day. If that's the case, she needs to make it clear that honesty is important, and that it's ok to say you can't do something when you can't.

And knowing how differently men and women interperet things at times, there's a good chance he may not even have a clue how he messed up here. The only way for her to know what he was thinking is for her to talk to him.

And, as I said, watch his behavior over time. It doesn't take too long to get a sense about whether a person is someone who follows through on his word or not.

I would move on.

If he's not responsible and courteous enough to keep in touch and make engagements then how will he handle it when you or your friend really needs to depend on him in the future.

Ugh. I've heard of that book before, but never looked into what it really had to say. I'm not impressed.

There are so many ways to interpret situations like this, because there are so many ways that men (and women) think.

Sometimes a guy hangs back not because he's "not into" a woman but because he's scared - and there are all kinds of things he could be scared of. Or sometimes he's been fed a load of...er..."wisdom"... which tells him the rules of the "game" he needs to follow - rules which somehow nobody bothered to convey to his female counterpart in the situation. Sometimes a man is just plain socially or relationally inept despite considerable interest.

In this particular case, I would agree with TheBigGuy that caution and less emotional investment is called for. I have no idea what is going through the head of the man in question here, but his failure to phone when he said he would is not a good sign. That's a failure of common courtesy, not just a failure to show interest. If this is not a habit, or if he just needs to be educated (and if he can be educated!) then we might just be looking at a rough edge on a diamond. But odds are against that hope.

Luckystar, one thing that caught my attention is that your friend was attracted to this guy instead of the other guys who seemed great. If your friend is waiting for a spark to just happen, and if for her that kind of spontaneous spark tends to be generated by characteristics which are destructive to a relationship, then she may have a long hard road ahead of her.

Well, I cannot speak for all members of my sex about how "men think," but I have a pretty good idea about how this one is thinking. A woman I work with had almost the exact same experience awhile back.

Here's what I think really happened. The guy may have seen his DD that day, but maybe not. He had another date, which turned into a sure thing for sex, so he blew your friend off. How is she to know any better? It's the perfect lie. Using your children as an excuse to get out of a date is very common. The fact that he didn't call the next day when he said he would is pretty much tells the tale.

Your friend is being played. She doesn't know what to think because that's the way a player wants it to be. Keep them on the string, off balance and wondering what's up. Advise her to dump this jerk. And ladies, If a man you are daing EVER fails do do what he says he's going to do, dump him on the spot. No questions. No excuses. The easiest time to get out of a bad relationship is before it starts. There are plenty of men out there who will treat you well, so don't settle for a looser.

Does this guy usually do what he says? If so, give him the benefit of the doubt.

He was traveling, moving, trying to juggle a bunch of issues at a time. You know, life gets messy sometimes. Was his failure to call rude? yep. That happens sometimes. Occasionally, it really wouldn't be too much of an issue to me. If it became a pattern then I would reconsider the relationship. I hate the phone. I will not use it while I drive, ever. When I have my kids in the car I turn it off. I don't need the distraction. Maybe he is the same way?

If your friend wants to talk to this guy she should pick up the phone and call him. Life is too short for games.


If you look for reasons to take offense you will seldom be disappointed.

I agree wholeheartedly with Check - in fact, what he expressed is exactly what I was thinking as I read Lucky's original post. In fact, a similar thing happened to my sister. My sister didn't date for many years after her divorce (particularly nasty). When she did start dating, she met what seemed like a VERY nice guy who led all of us to believe he was VERY much into her (calls every day, seeing her multiple times a week, introducing her to his family, flowers, expensive jewelry, gifts for no reason at all). After 2 years of dating they even talked marriage. First he started playing the I want to see you, cancel but how about tomorrow, no call-no show game. She believed him when he said he was swamped at work/traveling on business. Then, out of no where, he told her his business was expanding and he was moving out of state to open an office in Indiana. My sister was heartbroken. Lo and behold, he did not move out of state. He had found someone else but wasn't man enough to tell her. Within months of breaking off with my sister, was engaged to and, ultimately, married this other woman.

I married for the first time late in life (age 39). Prior marrying, I dated some very nice men and many not so nice men. At the time, I could not see each one for what he really was, but having been married, now divorced and dating, again, I see it all VERY clearly. I can tell you which ones were sincere about a relationship with me and which ones were players who came around because it was convenient for them. When I read "He's Just Not That Into You," I felt like the author had followed me around an wrote the book based on my pre-marriage dating years. I couldn't believe what was said was actually true, so I started asking the good guys around me - brothers, brother in law, 2 adult nephews who are in their 20's, co-workers. Sure enough, all of them echoed what the author expressed. The one time since being divorced that I disregarded the books advice had to do with Work Guy (see my thread on this board). I followed the suggestion of others that maybe he was scared, why don't I ask him out, gee going to lunch once or twice a week (while at work) is dating, etc. What happened? Well not only did I make a complete fool of myself, I discovered what my nagging subconcious had been saying all along - He just wasn't that into me.

Basis 29 years of dating experience (16-44), I am now opting to follow the advice in the book. I let the man initiate. I let the man show me he's interested and only invest in him as much as I see him investing in me.

Regards,

BB

Thanks so much for the responses. It gave me a lot to think about, but before I could give her the articles (Thanks BigGuy) she called him. His voicemail answered and she left a message wondering how he was and if the move was done and that she would like to see him again that he should give her a call sometime. After calling him, she calls me to see if she did the right thing and feels that he left the voicemail pick up to ignore her call. So she has me call him and he picks up. Confirming the fact that he was ignoring her. He never called her back tonight. She of course is very upset and hurt. I guess he just wasn't that into her.

What really scares me as I think to the future to date is setting yourself up each time you meet someone. I was so hurt in my M that I'm afraid to let anyone in. When I'm ready and I do, what if he turns out like this guy. I'm interested and he's not. Is dating really that hard? She is so hurt because she liked him. I'm also bothered that he couldn't just tell her the truth. Wow it makes me want to crawl in a hole and never date.

Dating is easy. Rejection is hard.

I've been where you're at. Dating made me manic depressive, literally. I never felt so good or felt so bad when I dated after my divorce. Because my kids didn't need a psychotic dad, I checked out for a very long time.

You will meet guys like this, and you're going to meet some really great guys. That's the breaks of the game.

People don't like telling the truth when they think it will hurt the other person's feelings. That's just human nature. It takes time to learn how not to take it personally, but you'll get there. I pretty much went ballistic the first time a girl I was attracted to flirted with me, gave me her phone number and then never answered any of my calls. It's easier when people are honest, but its too difficult for most, so you just have to deal with it.

My advice...

Don't date until you reach the point where you don't need anybody else to "make you happy"/"complete you". Find happiness from within yourself, not from outside.

Figure out a way not to immediately invest in a person. For me, this has meant dating multiple people. Not a perfect solution, but it works for me for now.

Get out there and 'just do it'. Dating is like a muscle that hasn't been used in many, many years. It's going to be weak at first. It's going to hurt like he**. It's going to be clumsy. But over time, it gets stronger, it doesn't hurt as much or as often, and it becomes more adept in its function. The key is exercising it and not giving up when you have setbacks.

You'll be fine. You've already found MB and that puts you light years ahead of most people. Good Luck!

Hi!
I'm new here, although I've been browsing for a couple of weeks (and it's affecting my work!). I just love all the advice given and I've come in to join a couple of times, but chickened out. When I put my profile up you might understand.

I wanted to address this question though, because it's near and dear to me. I LOVED the book "He's just not that into you"! I think because there is a lot of good sense in there. If he isn't calling, he's just not that into you! If he was, believe me, he would call even to say, "Hey, I told you I would call, but I'm going to have to call you back, okay?" I've found this to be true in the guys I've dated.

One more thing, in response to you, Luckystar...
I was so, so scared. Still am, really, of putting my heart out there. What I did was to make a list of qualities of my "perfect" man. Now, I know! There is no such thing, but there is "perfect for me", or at least things I won't comprimise.
Then, I took a look at myself. I asked my friends what they like about me, what they thought I could change, etc. It made me realize...I'm AWESOME!!! I have wonderful friends, a lot to offer, and dang! I'm NOT going to settle again! I'm not putting up with any of it, because I DESERVE THE BEST. EVERYONE DOES!! That means you!
Go for what you want! DREAM!! I figured out, I didn't go through all of this for no reason...the reason was to get my head on straight and start thinking about what *I* want rather than accomodating a potential mate.
It's scary, but the good news is, you don't have to invest anything. You're just out to meet new people, see what makes them tick. Ask questions. See if their behavior matches their words.
It's all up to you when you are ready. You set the pace, you decide who you want to see. Be picky. You can afford it! (You can't afford NOT to be!)
I had a great time. Met some crazies, met some nice guys, but weren't for me.
I figure why waste my time with someone who I'm not into? Let them move on and I will to. I am/was on a mission to find the one for me. If I don't find him, it's okay. I'd rather be alone than unhappy. It's all up to you!