Ok, here goes....
WS and I have been married nearly 12 years and have 4 children. 2 months ago WS met OW online. 3 weeks later, they met in person, and a few days after that I checked cellphone bill and found all these calls to her number. I confronted WS and he admitted he met her online and had met her on two occasions that week in person. He said he was developing strong feeling for her and he wasn't willing to quit seeing her. So I told him as far as I was concerned we were married in name only. He took that statement as me giving him the boot and packed up that night and left (moved in with OW and her 2 kids)
A month later, I was pushing hard to get the divorce out of the way, I was moving on and ready to get it over with, it was too painful to hang in limbo, and I needed to move forward with it so I could begin getting foodstamps and aid so the children and I could survive (been a stay home mom for almost 11 years). He starts calling and telling me how stupid he has been, and that he loves me and he is going to move out of her place. He says (crying) he hopes somehow I can find it in my heart to give him 2nd chance. I told him we had an extra bed here if he needed somewhere to stay. He was so repentant, he promised me the world, told me he wanted to grow old with me (he never said such things before) and promised to love me and cherish me like he never had. I let him come home and it wasn't but a few days b4 he was back in my bed. We saw a counselor and are waiting for our 2nd appointment now. The prob is he had to keep seeing OW to get the rest of his stuff moved out, and had to keep talking to her cuz she was having such a hard time...next thing I know, he is talking to her for an hour at a time and sneaking around to find times to visit her. He has only been home 2 weeks, and confessed to me only a few days ago that he doesn't know what is wrong with him, he loves me, but he loves her too. He isn't sure we can ever have as good a relationship as they have had for the past 2 months. He says she makes him feel really really loved and he doesn't think I will be able to do that, cuz its not my personality. He doesn't want to hurt me or the kids but he also doesn't want to lose his chance at true love. He told me he will remain here for the next 4 weeks (he works long long hours for 21 days straight and gets a week off) so right now he is working 3 weeks and the 4th week we have several counseling appointments with a highly recommended christian counselor. He says he will wait and see what the counselor says. If the counselor thinks we have a chance, then at THAT point he'll cut off all relations with OW. (Oh, he is sleeping in the extra room at this point, NOT with me.) I am so scared, I just don't know what I should do. He can't at this point afford his own apartment without severely affecting the children and I financially. He says he won't go back to live with OW, cuz this time they have agreed (suposedly) that they won't have any kind of physical relations until our divorce is final. Do I just continue to live with this man who is daily breaking my heart? Its only a few weeks till the counseling. I ask myself every day why in the Heck I even want to save this marriage. Of course first and foremost it is for the kids, but also, as much as I wish I didn't, I still love him so much, and I know that with a little work, our marriage could be so much better. I am just so scared of waiting out the next few weeks only to have him decide the counseling was pointless and have him leave us all over again.

Welcome to MB. It's a holiday weekend around here so things will be really slow. I hope you've been all around the main site and lurked around the threads a bit (check out the 1st thread on the "Just found out" board).

Your marriage sounds very savable if both of you utilize and internalize the MB principles found herein.

Sorry we had to meet like this. There are many good people here who have been in your situation. Keep posting and we'll respond.

Mr. Wondering

EDITED TO ADD:

With 4 kids your marriage is statistically unlikely to end in divorce if that is what you want.

I encourage you and your husband to read "Surviving an Affair" then "His Needs/Her Needs" both by Dr. Harley (nobody here is paid or otherwise encouraged to promote sales of Dr. Harley materials...most of us are just success stories of his principles - in fact, go to Border's and read right there in the aisle if you want).

Your husband has apparently lost his mind right know and is literally "addicted" to OW. He also doesn't want to lose you and the kids. He's battling quiting the addiction and unable to understand what he needs to do to beat it. He's emotionally devastating you in the process and his behaviour has to be stopped. Over the next few days you will need to develope a plan for saving your marriage as you are the only rational marriage partner available to save it. As long as one of you is trying to save your marriage, it remains savable. Try not to let him leave home again. Don't not listen nor internalize his addictive justifications and rationalizations. You can't work on the marriage unless the Other Woman (OW) is out of the picture and you're both in your home. Read up on Love Busters, Love Banks, Plan A, the 180 Plan. You've got your work cut out for you but finding MB is a big step in the right direction.

Maybe consider encouraging him to post on Marriage Builder's. He's not sure what to think of his actions and why he feels compelled to behave the way he is --- well, there are a lot of former wayward spouses available herein that could discuss and explain all the who, what, where, why's directly with him.

Many more experienced posters or perhaps another woman that's been through an eerily similiar situation to you will be around during the week when up to 100-125 people are on this board at any given time. Bump it Tuesday if you haven't gotten enough replies.

Good luck, again.

I wanted to reiterate that you need to read up and develope a plan over the next few days.

Question: Has he agreed to at least have No Contact with the Other Woman for the next 4 weeks?

If not, everytime he see's or talks to her he is getting deeper and deeper into the addiction and you must not wait to get your plan in order and implemented.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> No he will not agree to having no contact with her during the next 4 weeks, he says he will wait and see what the marriage counselor says, and if the counselor thinks we have a chance and suggests cutting off contact, then he will. They still talk on the phone at least 1-2 hours every day and then he has a laptop that he has installed aim on just to chat with her. I have no way to stop him from contacting her, I have tried asking and reasoning and he just won't listen.

Mauri,

Welcome to MB. Just so you know, the first thing an MC will say is that the WS has to agree to absolutely NO CONTACT with the OP. Mine gave our marriage very little chance of success if WH was still in contact in any fashion whether there was sex currently going on or not. There are articles here on the website that explain this if you haven't read SAA yet. Please read all you can. The first thing you need is for contact to cease.

It sounds as if the "fantasy world" of the affair was starting to crumble of its own weight when your spouse begged to come home. But he is still addicted to the emotional feelings of the affair and withdrawal will be difficult.

Hang in there. Some veterans will be along to help you with specific advice.

Thank you EagleSoar, I look forward to getting more input from others who have been in my shoes. btw, I love your name, it reminds me of a favorite bible verse.

So what do I do when WH will not agree to no contact. He absolutely will not. Tonite things took a terrible turn for the worse and he told me he doesn't want to work on our marriage, that he is finished and he knows our marriage is over, the OW is perfect for him and they don't have to work at passion or work at meeting EN's. I told him he had to keep his promise to stay the next 4 weeks so we could go to counseling, he finally relented and said ok, but he said thats it, he's moving out and getting an apartment after that. He said he loves OW and its too late for us. I am just shocked at how fast this has turned, 6 weeks ago he left us, 2 weeks ago he came back, things went good for a week, then he started talking to OW again and now suddenly we are finished in his mind. How can a christian man turn his back on his family like this, I just don't get it. I don't know what to do. I have ordered a couple of Dr. Harleys books, but it'll probably be at least a week b4 I get them, so I can't even start reading up on ideas on how to handle this.

Relax a little. All hope is not lost. Many marriages have been saved even as far out as 2 years after D-Day. The odds are on your side. Remember what I said. As long as one of you continues to try to save the marriage it can be saved. You can develope your plan right of this site and start implementing it. You mentioned earlier in your thread the OW wanted to cool it with WH until he was divorced. She may be ripe to end it when her "adulterous" ways are exposed. Exposure, in one total swoop, is your best option and you need to develope a list of people you are going to expose to. You may fear his backlash, his anger, and/or that he will leave, however, his staying for 4 weeks to supposedly work on the marriage is a sham. As long as he remains in contact with OW you can not work on your marriage.

Expose, Expose, Expose.
Mr. Wondering

Mauri,
Welcome to MBs. While nothing can take away the pain of what's happened in your marriage, we are here to listen and care.

I think it would be really helpful for you to go to the "Just Found Out" forum. At the very top there is a posting on "WAT's quick start guidelines..". They are a great overview of talking about what's happening and how to manage things in the early stages of discovering an affair.

Your husband is doing what's called "Cake Eating" and "Fence Sitting". The WS wants their cake and eat it, too. e.g. you and the OW. They're sitting on the fence, not making a choice about which woman they will be with, or frequently changing that choice.

I could never understand either, how my xWS could seem so sincere in one moment....wanted to be with me and only me....grow old and gray together...knew it was me that he really loved...etc., and then go back to the OW. Over and over again. In our case, an OC was born which complicated things further. We were in marriage counseling when the sexual part of his affair started! (Of course, he could have been lying about the timing of that, too!)

It's so hard when the man you have known and loved seems to turn into another creature! You know that the "good" part is still in there somewhere, but it's never certain that you'll ever see that part of him again. Many here compare it to an "addiction".

Unfortunately, I didn't find the MB site until after we divorced. But, I have still found it helpful to my healing process.

Take care, and let us know how things are going.

Everyone knows about it already. There is apparantly no shame about it. As far as OW goes, WH says most of her family knows, but I have no way to make sure, as I have no names or anyway to contact these people.
I talked to OW on phone last night and even though she supposedly just got "Saved" a few days ago, there is not enough guilt on her part to quit seeing him. Although now they say they are not having a physical relationship until our divorce is final (yah, right!! I know my WS too well for that!)
I know there is still hope but a part of me wonders WHY in the HECK I would want to be with him after he treated me this way.
I do appreciate the support and encouragement, I am so glad I found marriage builders. Its so nice to have people actually rooting for reconciliation when everyone around me is saying move on with your life, kick him to the curb, you deserve so much better, blah blah blah.

One of my favorite books for women living with an unapologetic adulteror is Love Must Be Tough by Dr James Dobson. (get it from your local library) When you are reading this book, do NOT show it to your husband. Keep it to yourself. It has nearly your exact senario as an example, with a sort of blue print of what to do in this situation.

Especially effective (in my opinion) when there is at least some religious beliefs being taught at home.

My suggestion .... READ THIS BOOK .... and follow it to a 'T'. It is very near to MB principles, but slightly different.

It advises to 'set free' the adulteror because YOU refuse to live in an UNGodly relationship. This is usually the last thing they expect. Once you set them free, they cannot hold any of your actions against you. After all, you gave him what he wanted ---> O U T of the "trap" they felt they were in.

Once you set them free of "the trap" of their home life .... it starts to look different and more inviting .... being away from "home" is a good motivator .... assuming "home" is not in actuality someplace terrible.

Thanks Pepper, I have often heard of that book, but never read it. I will try and get a copy at the library tomorrow.

OK Pep ... she gets this book and reads it. Then she decides to implement it (I presume it is a quick Plan B type separation plan). What should she do right now? Today? What does the book recommend? Is she to endure the next month living this UnGodly life then claim she can't live like this later? That's O.K., if that's the books plan. Does the book endorse a short Plan A type period wherein you set up the WS by meeting as many of his needs as you can then cut him off with Plan B?

I haven't read the book Pepp recommended. But I can infer from your posts a high level of hopelessness. Until you read the book Pepp suggested or finalize a Plan, just keep Plan A'ing him. Dr. Harley recommends 6 months so at the very least you should plan on doing it through the next 4 weeks while he's home supposedly working on your marriage.

When you do Harley Plan B him or Dr. Dobson Plan B him, you've got four little magnets and your demonstrated love and understanding that will hopefully bring him home.

For now just keep hope alive in your heart. Focus primarily on yourself and being the person, mother, wife you always hoped you'd be. Whether he responds is irrelevant right now. He will or should notice someday and want to be with you. However, for now you do this for yourself. So you won't regret your behavior and reactions to your husbands betrayal down the road. You are the adult here and your family/kids deserve a father in their home so fight this infidelity with a good plan.

What is your plan? How is it progresssing? Have you got the books recommended? If not, when? Hut to it. Keeping your mind occupied is half the battle.

Good Luck, Mr. Wondering

P.S. - Busting up the A is tactical priority #1. You are at war with OW, please discuss further your conversations with her and the purpose of such conversations. You can't really manipulate, frustrate, de-capitate the OW on the phone. A lttle open communication is O.K., because it may allow you to disturb their relationship with some carefully worded techniques others have utilized as long as you don't believe or listen to a word the OW says. She, like your husband, are likely to tell you what you want to hear to merely allow them to keep the affair going and to give them something to talk about. Remember, she wants to split you two up and have WH for herself and she will lie, cheat and steal to get him.

Also, every conversation you have with OW feeds a sort of love triangle. You are one thing they have in common and love to talk about. Affairs thrive on this drama so maybe you should consider not talking to her at all. While your at it, you may consider not speaking to your husband about her other than to ask for NC. Remember, the opposite of love, is not hate, it's indifference.

Here is what worked for me. FWH said he wanted to moved out, called his Mom and found out he could stay there. Then he seemed to hesitate, but I made him move out that weekend. I couldn't handle him being there while the A was on-going, I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't function and since I was pregnant this was not the way to live. He couldn't believe I was pushing him out the door. And you know what, it worked. I was able to do a much better plan A without him living with me. I didn't have to face the constant hurt and rejection and could plan my interactions. We are now 9 months into recovery, still some bad days, but more good days then bad.

You need to decide what you can handle. Sometimes the best thing to do is set them free and take care of yourself.

I don't yet have a plan. Right now I just try to avoid him yet still be kind. He has the nerve to kiss me good bye every morning and tell me he loves me. I don't know why he does this, after telling me its over and hes only here, not to work on the marriage (because he has made up his mind that counseling won't help, nothing will), but because he promised me the next few weeks till counseling. Probably he is really here still cuz he can't afford his own apartment right now and he and OW had agreed he won't move back in with her and there relationship will be strictly EA until the divorce.

I wish i hadn't spoken to her, it was stupid and pointless. And like you said, they probably are just gossiping about it now.
Here's the reason for the phone call:
I had called my WH and his cellphone was turned off, so I called her cellphone just to ask if she knew where he was, well, HE answered her phone and I just went off, I was so upset, he knew the kids were waiting for him and he was at her house 2 hours later when he should've been home. He started "well we have just been standing outside talking, I just stopped in to find out how things went at her new church today, if you don't believe me then talk to her!" I said "fine, let me talk to her" and so next thing I know shes on the phone telling me, "yes we haven't even gone into my condo," and so I ask her why is she doing this? I said, "you just got saved and you are carrying on with my husband!" She said "well, its 2 of us here, not just me." I said "I know, but how can you do this with a clean consience?" She says, again "its not just me, its WH and I, and you don't even know me." I said, "I'm GLAD I don't know you, you disgust me, let me talk to WH" She said thanks and handed phone back to WH.
So I won't be talking to her anymore, and I won't be talking to WH about her anymore, even if he brings her up. It looks like he is moving into a motel for the next couple weeks since his work is paying for him to be in motel and he has been coming home at night. Somehow they found out and said he needs to be in a motel or he won't get the sustenence pay (which covers food & gas as well). So I probably won't see him or hear from him for a while. It works out great for him though, cuz it puts him about 10 minutes from OW's condo.
So at least for now, It all comes down to the counseling in 3 weeks. I know even if he leaves after that, there is still hope, but my prayer right now is that the counseling helps him out of the fog enough to see that we have a chance and he will agree to NC.

You are probably right. I guess it just scares me to have him move out, it seems so final. I am amazed that WS come back 6 months or more later. I worry that he wouldn't, just knowing him, the longer he is away, the less he would care. At least thats how it feels. Honestly a big part of me is mostly just scared about how I can take care of 4 kids on my own and take care of the house and yardwork. I have been a stay at home mom forever and it is so important to me to be here for my kids...now I have to go to work, send my little twins (almost 3 years old) to daycare. It just kills me to have to do this.
It will probably come to this, but I really really hope it doesn't have to.
Thanks for your kind words and willingness to share.

It may be final, you have to prepare yourself for this, but what would be worse, living the way you are now or being on your own? I think it's Dr. Phil who says I would rather be healthy alone then sick with someone else. Now is the time to reach out to all your family and friends and let them be there for you. You'll be amazed how much they will step forward when you really need them, you just have to let people help you.

And don't worry about the daycare for the kids. At three years old they will probably love going and having other kids to play with everyday. My daughter has been in daycare since she was 3 months old and is doing just fine. I would love to be with her all the time, but I have to work. So instead I treasure the time that we do have and make the best of it. She is a very happy, well adjusted child and yours will be too.

What are you doing for yourself? How are you keeping busy? You need to keep yourself together if you are going to get through this. Make your WH spend time alone with the kids while you go out. Do not be his baby sitter so he can carry on his A.

On another note, have you contacted this church where OW was just born again and let them know she is participating in an adultress affair? How about your church?

Good point, I know maybe I am overly concerned with our financial security. I am scared to be poor and have to get food stamps, but I guess its better then the way things are right now. Yes my family and friends were wonderful during the month he moved out, I wouldn't have survived without them.

Ya I know they will have fun, I am just worried cuz they have had me every day all day for nearly 3 years. It will be an adjustment for sure.


No I never thought of contacting the church she attends, I do know the name, so maybe I can find them in the phone book. I have talked to a pastor at church and had one IC appointment for me and one MC appt. for WH and I. So they know about it.
As for me, what am I doing for me? Not much at this point. WH is working from 6 am to 6pm and doesn't get home till at LEAST 7:30 or 8 pm (long drive) in a couple days, he'll start staying at a motel close to work, so won't see him again until the 21st, so no way for him to take kids till then. I have been too sick and hurt to do much, but I feel myself coming out of the clouds a bit.
thanks so much for your advice ((((hugs))))

So does he plan on not seeing his children for 3 weeks?!?! What can you do to pull him back into the family? Can you plan a family outing for Saturday and invite him to attend? Make it an all day thing. If he has been able to drive home every night now, why can't he come home to see the children and you and then go to the hotel? Something just isn't right here. It's all the standard WS script and knowing that you can help to shake it up. I'm sure WH and OW are looking foward to all this time together. Make it miserable! Have the children call their father when ever they feel like it. Call WH to see if he can run home to unclog the toilet, show him he is needed at the house. Schedule an evening for him to come and watch the children while you go out. Don't tell him what you are doing, be vague. Just let him know you need him to be home on Wedneday at 7 pm because you have plans. And when he gets there you look your absolute best in your sexiest outfit, hair done, nails done even if its just to go walk around the mall. Make him wonder what's going on. Right now, he knows that you will wait for him forever. Give him a reason to question that, without doing anything wrong on your part.

However, the most important thing to do right now is expose this A to OW's church. Also, don't believe your WH when he says everyone knows. Make sure you confirm this and tell people your side of the story. WH's are known to lie and make it look like you are alright with the A. Use the truth!

Start to develop your plan, it will do good to have something to work from.

I contacted the church OW attends and let them know. They wrote it up in a file for her, but at this point they don't know who she is, it is a large church and so far she hasn't joined any bible studies or anything (she has only been there the last 2 weeks) so she is just a face in the crowd.