Definitely not the way to have a long and successful marriage.
I don't know if the feelings of having to know where they are, what they are doing, etc, ever really go away.

I just want you all to know that I listened to what everyone had to say last night and have been thinking about it today. Yes, I still have a LOT of thinking to do.

TTSI - You're right...I need a break from this mess.

Believer - I agree this is too much for a young marriage. I will encourage him to go to IC but I think I need to keep some distance from him.

With everyone's opinions of my H, I'm sure that my break will be the perfect excuse for him to find another OW. So if that's the case then this decision is easy for me.

I have been receiving phone calls from H every few hours since he's been out of town. I'm actually relieved to have him gone so I don't have to deal with him this weekend. He just told me on the phone that he thinks that we need to plan things for just the two of us for the next several weekends.

OW2 emailed me yesterday...did I mention she's 43? (no offense to anyone, just a fact)...offering me advice and telling me that I deserve so much better...apologizing repeatedly because she didn't know. I received two more emails from her this morning. She's been having awful dreams because she's so upset by this and angry with my H for using her and making her the OW. It's odd given the situation, but if I met her any other way I'd like her...I actually have respect for her.

OT - It's strange to think that you nameless people know so much about me. Yet I hang out here with you all the time. I look forward to 'checking in' on everyone. Thanks.

Well Chin up girl -

Did you read Faithinme's story? She did an perfect Plan A, and a good Plan B, and her WH still took off with the OW. It turns out he had several other affairs too.

She just got married to a wonderful man. And she has 3 little ones.

Walk away. You have your whole life ahead of you. A coward dies a thousand times, a hero dies but once.

Walk away, grieve and move on. This man cannot be fixed. You have no children-why would you want to have them with him. Read Faithinme's story. She did everything right, the man was just a cheater from the get go. You can't fix a narcissitic personality. You do not want to have a child with him-he would torture it like Faith's X did. You have a chance of a bright future without this man. I've been around for a long time, I've seen them come and go. Your chances of being cheated on with this man are very high, maybe not in the next year, but maybe in 5 years when you have two kids at home and have quit your job. There are other fish in the sea, throw this one back. Maybe you and the OW can grieve together. She sounds like a nice lady.

Newlywed... I am a fws... and I hesitate to compare stories bc everyone is different... but your wh sounds a lot like my om except he had been married longer and had had many many ow (2-3 a year)... supposedly they were only about sex (not that that would have made a difference to his wife)... with me, he graduated a his "first full fledged affair" (yeah, I need a labotomy). Anyway, he also had personals on yahoo, a profile on AdultFriendFinder.com and I don't know what else. I chalked it all up to childhood issues too. I ended up telling my husband, he did not expose (that threat is saved incase I don't hold up my end of the bargain of nc), but om continues his spree (I found out about Adultfriendfinder.com after the affair was over). So... all I am saying is there are people out there like this... and he has a two year old son... if you don't cut and run now (I don't advocate either way) make sure you know what the potential is. Oh yeah, as the OW I heard the "I love my wife, but I am not in love her" story from him too. It's all too predictable. I had my own issues and made my own stupid choices, but hubby and I are in recovery now. Do I think of om's wife? Not then, but now all the time.

I actually had a good weekend since H was gone. I was able to continue with my clear headed thinking. You know how you all say that when the WS wants to recover he'll come to you with the plan? I was always told previously by WH that he doesn't know what to do...or what would make me (the BS) happy.

When he came back last night I decided that I would be there. (Despite the fact that all of you MBers think I should run for the hills.) He called me every few hours all weekend. Usually I was short with him or I didn't answer at all. Yesterday on his drive back he called and we had a short R talk. I basically told him that I didn't know what I was going to do, wanted, etc. but there may be an extremely small window of opportunity for him. Last night he presented me with his plan to recover from this. In his plan were the list of boundaries that I gave him and many of his own additions...including the canceling of all of his open email accounts, staying away from the computer/internet where he admits to feeling tempted to view porn and chat with women, disposing of his porn collection, transparency, always letting me know where he's going/ who he's with, only making plans that include me, MC and IC, going to the gym after work so we can arrive home close to the same time (he usually has a couple hours to himself each afternoon).

He said that OW2 was just sex and that he thought that we were really done...we had had NC for six weeks (no excuse, I know). He cried while he explained to me that he couldn't possibly expect me to forgive him yet because he can't forgive himself until he does everything he can to try and fix things. He said the reason why he couldn't show me any affection the last few weeks (while I thought we may be in recovery) was because he felt so guilty and had no idea how to come clean about OW2.

He was very sincere and opened up to me (which is extremely difficult for him). He said that he is going to show me that this is what he wants...he knows that I can't trust his words. I told him that I will be sleeping on the sofa... that I still have a lot of thinking to do...that at this point he has a very low balance in my LB and that if he falters on any of these things that he says he's going to do that I'm gone.

I feel very differently about things now. Before I was in a constant state of reacting to his words and actions...constantly LBing. I think that I finally have the control that I knew I needed to make decisions.



p.s. You all keep comparing my situation to FIM. Thank you for giving me things to think about and I will keep this in mind. However, let me point out, and NO I am absolutely not making excuses, FIM's WH was away a lot of the time. I think that it's important for a couple to be together in the same home if they are to have a healthy relationship or are to recover from something like this.

I think you are on the right track. For the first time you aren't asking for advice, you are letting us know what your plan is.

I do have one question for you that you didn't address, are you guys going to go to MC? I know you mentioned earlier that WH was reluctant to go, does he still feel the same?
How do you feel about it?

The reason I ask is, it seems like now would be a good time to have a professional help to mediate with you both.

I'm sorry all this had to happen for you to get to this point NW. You know I'm not very religious, but I can't help but spout off something my mother says to me all the time, "When God closes a door, He opens a window" Maybe, this is your window.

Newlywed,

I am truly glad to see that you're thinking things through and feel you may be moving in a positive direction. I wish the best for you and hope you are able to recover and one day have a great marriage with this man.

I do want to point something out though... just to think about.

My ex was a reservist. His affairs seemed to follow deployments, but I later learned I simply didn't know about the ones going on at home. I allowed myself a false sense of security...and I kind of rationalized the situation...as "He'd never do that if he was with me every day. I'm enough for him, and always have been when he is actually with me." I told myself I never would have put up with it if he had been coming home to me while cheating.

Anyway.....

After my ex's first affair, we spent a LOT of time together. He didn't spend considerable amounts time away from home for a year and a half.

After the second round of affairs (they happened when he was deployed, but remember, he was a reservist so he wasn't gone then except for long term deployments) we really committed to spending more time together and to couseling. We did counseling for 4 months, he cried, he felt guilty, he was SO CONVINCING, and I honestly believe that HE believed he wouldn't do it again. After that deployment, he didn't deploy again for 7 years.

For the next year and a half after he had returned from the deployment, we did everything together. We went out at least one night a week together... never once did we miss a week in a year and a half. We went camping and intertubing as a family. We went to the mountains. It really was a great year and a half. Even after that we were always together. After a few years, he took a job that he travelled a lot in. But still, on the weekends, we did things together. Had you asked any of our friends, they would have told you we were a great couple, a stable family. We were so okay in fact, that we decided to have another baby.

As it turns out though, he had been having affairs the whole time. During the "I'm so repentant" and spending so much time together years... CHEATING. During the travelling but missing his family so much and spending his weekends with us phase.... CHEATING. I didn't find out about these until after this latest affair which caused our divorce. But all along, with me or without me, he had been cheating. While deciding we should have another baby, cheating. While being an usher at church and counseling friends about their marriages and infidelity....cheating.

Some people, and I don't know that your husband is one of them, will find any excuse.

Recovery from an affair is ugly and hard. Without a strong will, it's even harder.

I'm only pointing this out because, as other posters have pointed out, you don't have children at this point. I know the pain of going through it without children and I am in NO WAY belittling that. It is horrendous and it's scary no matter what.

I'm just saying that there are some things to continue thinking about in walking down the path of recovery. There were big huge signs all along that I should have been looking at that I didn't. Multiple affairs are an indicator of a deeper problem.

The amount or quality of time spent with me was not an indicator of Dork's ability to cheat.

His own selfishness, compartmentalization, lack of respect and feeling of entitlement WERE indicators.

Sometimes it's simply a character issue and you can't change that with any amount of time put in.

I hope that's not the case with you. Really, I do. Just be careful as you go forward in your marriage or in starting a family. Best of luck.

FIM

We, as BS's, tell our WS's over and over that if they are willing to meet our needs we will give them the time to prove it to us.

Granted, NW has had to deal with a 2nd d-day to get to this point, but it seems her WH has reached the bottom of his rope and realized what he's about to lose. He's come to her on his knees ready to meet her needs and ready to do what it takes to prove himself to her. It only seems fair that if she wants to grant him that gift of time, she can.

Only time will tell if she's making the right decision for herself. Honestly, children aren't the only reason to stay and work on a marriage. I'm personally getting a little tired of reading that, but that's my issue.

Anyway, NW, if giving him the time to prove it to you is what you want, then don't forget to protect your heart and I hope for only the best.


{{{{{{NW}}}}}}

These will be the words that you live by for the rest of your life.

Congratulations !

Best of luck

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for your support but I'm a little irritated. I realize that you people are trying to give me good advice, but why are you telling me to run rather than support me and help me with what to do next? Why does everyone assume that because of our ages and the fact that we have no children our marriage is not worth saving? There are several others on here who have dealt with multiple OP, some without children even, and they received encouragement.

I have made a LOT of mistakes in plans A & B that could have pushed my H in the direction he went in. I was in a constant state of reacting. I was lost, hurt. I could not pull myself together enough to stick to the plans most of the time. I left and returned to our home several times after D-day #1. WH never knew if I was coming or going or if I wanted to save this marriage…and neither did I.

We spoke right before I left the country for a two-week vacation and I told him that there's nothing else I can do to save this marriage if he's not in it with me. I told him that the deadline had been reached and when I return from my trip I am going to find an apartment of my own and make decisions for me. I can see how this could be interpreted as us being over...however I know that if he really still wanted this he wouldn't have done what he did. Aaargh.

Yes, you may be right but give me constructive advice rather than make it more difficult for me. I've asked H to join MB, to read the stories and post. He said not now, he's not ready for that. This is the first time in all of this that we are on the same page…and that I have any sense of calmness and clarity.

If this is the only advice you have for me then there is no point in my spending anymore time around here. I am a very intelligent, practical person who usually makes good decisions. I know that my H is a good person who has made some mistakes. Quite honestly so have I. I thought that this was a marriage-building site…I came here to learn how to do just that.

Newlywed,

I wish you the best. I'm going to bow out of this.

No one here is suggesting that your marriage isn't worth saving because of your age or because you don't have children. I certainly never did. Infidelity is pain for anyone going through it.

The POINT behind people pointing that out is that should you find yourself in this position a third or fourth time...with children... there are more than you and your husband to consider.

This is a marriage building site and I for one can say I repeatedly said that I hope you can work it out.

People here have been where you are and beyond. The stories are all different yet eerily similar in some respects. Everyone here knows first hand the pain and destruction, the hope and the fear that come alone with adultery.

I can't think of a single person here who wouldn't be hoping and rooting for your marriage to survive and thrive and in the event that doesn't happen, for you to be happy.

Constructive advice HAS been given. Guard yourself and your heart. Go for it if that is what your heart says.... but you should be protecting yourself and keeping your eyes wide open in the process.

WHY? Because we care. Because we have all cried. We've all been exactly where you are. Your last post was almost exactly what I've written more than once, what most others have felt.

Please don't mistake constructive, caring and actually supportive advice for other than what it is.

Again, best of luck to you and your husband.

FIM

FIM -

No, you haven't said my marriage isn't worth saving. I'm sorry if I've offended you with my post. I find your story to be invaluable, and quite honestly, what I fear the most. I am frustrated, I guess. I want my H and I to be happy, yet I can see my living a happy life without him. It is extremely hard to walk away when he insists he loves and respects me and our marriage and will do what it takes to show me. I guess I need to stick in the marriage awhile longer so that I know for sure. My heart is very guarded right now so recovery may not be possible on my end.

Anyway, thank you. I will continue reading your old posts as there are many of them and plenty I've yet to read.

NW -

You didn't offend me. I realized that you were seeing something you might not want to. It's a natural step.

I had to see my marriage through to the point I did too. I understand that. For me, I wanted SO badly to believe my WH even when deep deep down in a place I wouldn't even acknowledge, I knew he wasn't going to change.

That's the only reason I said I was bowing out of this thread. I'm still going to read as I find that I feel protective of you and I don't even know you. But I think your situation reminds me too much of my own and I think you are seeing too much of what could be in my marriage ending. I'd hate see you want to prove people wrong so much that you fight past where you want to. Again, I'm probably projecting too much of myself, but I know that prolonged my situation.

You will find that people here are going to support you. I still believe that my life really started going forward once I found this site. The people here have supported, challenged and changed me.

You may not always hear what you want, but it may be just what you need.

Good luck!

FIM

newlywed...
I have not posted to you before...

I think that a time of seperation is very difficult for both spouses. No one imagines being seperated so soon after getting married...I am not exucing your H's actions, however, it could have been just a mistake on his part that he will strongly regret ...

I think people here are concerned that as a young couple you have much to deal with...My best friend's H cheated on her 6 months into the marriage, what turned into a 6 months A. It was difficult for her to deal with and it was quite shocking given that it was so soon after the wedding, but nevertheless, she stayed...yes, at some point she got to the stage you are in, where you know you can walk away, but you don't yet. She felt she could only walk away knowing she did everything and gave her M a chance. I think this is where you are at and if you feel you need to stay - do. Now, 4 years later, my friend is in a happily recovered marriage...and you have that chance too.

I don't know where we should draw the line about how many A (EA or PA) are too much...Yes, I have to admit that 2 is a lot, but still, I think this is really the first chance you are giving him to work on it...now that he is saying he will do anything to make it work...

I don't think the number of years in a M (or the number of children) should determine how hard we work on our M or how much we forgive...

I am not dealing with an A, but since my H left (no talk of D) I have been asked many times 'when am I filing for D', and you are young, you will find someone else...etc...
Even though I have only been married 2 years(no kids), I still feel strongly that my M deserves a chance just like any M!

{{{{{{{NW}}}}}}}}

Take care.

Daisy

NW,

Your latest posts are totally 180 from your first posts on this thread. So you had a cooling off period and he is begging you, promising by his actions to change, etc,etc.

""I've asked H to join MB, to read the stories and post. He said not now, he's not ready for that.""

I BEG YOUR PARDON?? He is ready to do anything to keep the M alive...but go to the one place where you find comfort?

This does not compute!

"" I am a very intelligent, practical person who usually makes good decisions.""

If you say so.

k

???? Just curious, why not put him on the couch?

I understand what you're saying, however, H is not comfortable talking to anybody. He has a hard enough time talking to me and his sister (his closest family member). I think he's afraid that everyone here will beat him up. This was a suggestion I made and he is not opposed to it, but right now I'd much rather get him to a MC and an IC. I've shared some of these stories with him. With time I think you will see him on here.

Bill - I can not sleep in the bedroom because he and OW2 had their one night PA there. It sickens me enough to just walk in the room.

My absolute best advice.....

Stay away for now. He agrees to IC, with your choice of counselor. And pick a good one...

6 months of that, and if counselor is convinced he's working things and has made improvements, then you agree to MC.

You really need to find out if he just wants to hang with you until the next OW comes along or not.
No words should ever convince you of that either.

You know how you can tell if a WS is serious about repairing the marriage?
By making extreme demands on them, and they agree to do them.

And well, by extreme, I mean the normal demands that BS would put on their spouse. At least the demands that I would make..... But to s WS, they will seem extreme because they just don't get it. And they won't, not for awhile.