Wow. Peachy, you should write a "how-to" book on the subject.

MM
"I say again...your attorney is about the divorce. You are about the marriage. She already knows what she is about to lose."
EXACTLY... nice words MM dazed... listen to this closely...

DAZED.,.. You said...
"Look at what she had done to me. I still want her. What other message could she take from this other than i will wait for her to fail with him. That is really what Plan A during all this tells the WS...

Not totally true.... it hints to that but... if Plan "A" turns to "B" then that clears that up...

Plan "B" can't even be attempted without doing a REALLY GOOD Plan "A" (which you're doing...) Because... WS has to see that there have been MAJOR changes and FORGIVENESS in the BS that would make it possible to return and have a chance to repair the Marriage...

You're doing great DAZED... keep it up....
GOO LUCK & PRAYERS.... FRANK

I just wrote a 30 minute update when I bumped a key on the key board and its was lost.....uuuugggggg

Oh well...Just something else to over come.

I will sum it up with out details.

WW did not come home last night until 9:45PM.
I found her in her car on the cell phone in the Target parking lot at 6:30. I REALLY did go there to buy myself some new long sleeve shirts and look around for a few things for the house. I seen her car and her in it with the phone. I just drove right on by parking several rows over. I went on in with out even looking her way.

A few minutes later she approached me in the store. She says, well here I am...I said, okay... So what...She said, you must be looking for me. I said, UH NO. Can't I shop at Target now.
She was shaking and holding a bank reciept, saying she deposited money into our account for bills. I told her she should not have.

So, I asked her if she had eaten. She says, no. I said, I invited her to eat after I got a few things. She said, no.
She took a few steps back to create some distance between us. She said, what are you looking for. I said, some new rugs for the entry way and maybe some cloths.
She says, oh... Started to walk off while looking back at me over her sholder. I said, oh yah... It is against the rules to be seen with me... We both must have forgot that one. She got a real big frown on her face and looked near tears. Stopped for a minute and looked at me. I shrugged my sholders and she left.

Not much once she got home. I was very tired and near a sleep on the couch. In between noding off she covered me up with a blanket. A short time later I got up to go to bed. Offered to let her take the bed again. She said, no.

This morning I woke her up early. I asked her if I could ask a question. She says okay. I said, can you sleep all night with out tossing and waking up? She said, no why. I said, well I can't either. I was curious if it was just me. The only full night sleep I have had in months was the two nights were beside each other. She said, yeah.

She kept at me again this morning. Things went well for awhile but I ended up babbling with her pretty good.

She came down stairs and looked near tears again as I put laundry into the machine. When I finished I went over and gave her a hug. She pressed her face against my chest for awhile. I rubbed her back a little. When I backed away, she said, what does primary custody mean. Do I see her at all? I said, well I am not entirely sure. I know it means her home is here. The rest I don't know yet.
She says, do you remember so and so from our old town. They just got divorced and he is in a trailer and they have shared custody. I said, thats to bad.
I left to get daughter to school.

WW jumps me again when i get back to eat and clean up the house.
Starts in by complaining about the sink faucet never getting changed and how she asked for that months ago, and the dishes in the sink must be just going to set there until she does them, my mess from making rolls earlier was still there, towels on the sink... I just said, WW you are not expected to clean that up. She says, well everyone just leaves stuff around and says its not mine. So in end up doing. I said nothing... Thinking okay, you have not done _hit for months around here.

Seeing I was not really interested in her comments, she went back into the make up room.
A little later she says, your friends are stupid. I said, what now. She says, your friends Ryan and Heather are stupid for ever getting married. I said, oh you read my wedding invitation on the counter.
She says, they will just end up divorced. I said, how do yo know. She said, He will just leave her alone and go racing his cars and doing what ever probably just like you. I said, well as long as there living life together like we did not then who knows how they will turn out. She says, well I guess if she is a gear head or enjoys hanging out with men in a shop or race track with out being happy and living any life of her own then oh well. He's the man and does what ever, so she should just go along with it. right? (OKAY SHE GOT ME). I said, WW I really don't know what they do. I will tell you they do everything together. The go most everywhere together. Sure they fight and argue like most couples. Maybe because they are together they can talk about what it is that makes them happy like we forgot how to do. She says, well maybe you can find a new woman that likes racing and you all can be friends. I had no comment.
WW says, Yeah, that girl must be really stupid then to want to be a racers wife and be around that stuff. I said, well as long as she don't have an affair maybe they will have a chance to tell each other things like what each othe wants to be happy together....

She made some comment about half under her breathe so I could not hear it.
She says something about how I know what matters in a relationship NOW.. I let her go on. She says, yeah.. Your priorities in a relationship was all about what you wanted when you wanted it. She rattled off a bunch of justifications to that statement. I said nothing.
She then made a comment about me calling her relationship with OM and affair. She says, affairs are about sex and that not what I am all about and sex does not matter with him either. OH _HIT THAT OPEN THE DOOR...
I had to comment... I said, okay sex does not matter to your friend... Any man that beats off to porn, sex matters my dear...She said, it does not. I laughed and said, well I guess your ready to find out huh.. She says, he knows I am not into sex and that's not what I am about. I said, well okay.. So your not into sex. What will you do when he decides to turn you into his porn queen? End of that conversation. She says, see its talks like these that show we could never work.

As I am heading for the door, she says its about power with you. I said, how do you figure. She says, you are just controling me. I said, me controling you. You filed for the divorce. You are seeing another man. Yet I have control and power... Please explain. She says, you want me to stay and don't want a divorce. So you find my weakness and take advantage of it. You bait me like a mouse with cheese. You say, okay _itch if you are going to divorce me then you don't get you kid. Knowing I love her and want her. So, you hold her knowing I don't want to leave her. That is your control. I said, I am doing what I think is right. She said, yeah to get what you want. It's about you getting what you want by controling me.
I said, okay lets talk about control. Do I tell you where to be and when to be there. Make you call in. Tell you who you can see and not see. Tell you where to sleep when your in our house. Tell you not to go anywhere with your husband, Tell you, that you can not stay in our house, Tell you to file for a divorce and split your family. Yet, I am controling you. She says, your just doing it in a different way.
We left for work.

Here is a couple short emails from this morning after getting to work.

WW-Add 300 into your checking account as of 8AM this morning.
Have a good day
Love
BS

BS-WHY??????
WW

WW-You say you are always broke and never have any money.
You keep the money…
BS

BS-but i thought u couldnt
pay for everything w/ out
my help? what's the deal?
was that just a lie to make me feel
bad?
WW

WW-I can’t.
But just like the rest of my life, I will just have to learn how to live with out you.
BS

BS-but BS-for the majority of
the time u were with me-u were
mostly always w/ out me. (by your choice)
remember????????????????????????????????
guess u don't--don't worry, I'll take
all the blame.
WW

I screwed up pretty bad with that comment about her affair then debat about control...
I have not replied to her last email. Not sure if I am going to.

your reply:

"The only thing I blame you for is having an affair.
Thats not the right way to handle our problems.
I made a committment to you and I will stand by and work on our marriage."


Everything else was fine!
Don't worry about it!

Dazed,

One of the best things to do is to write your long posts into Word, wordpad or notepad (or something like that). That way if you hit any keys by accident you're not left with starting all over again. I've learned my lesson after a few times of seeing all my writing disappear.

When you've completed your writing just copy and paste into your post area. It'll save you from a lot of possible headaches in the future.

She's coming to the realization that she can't leave without ruining her image completely.
Continue to reinforce that.

Okay- Here's the delima.
I got a call from WW asking if I was going forward with my attourney. I said, well you filed your deal first whats up? She says, well I just talked to my attourney and she says your attourney tells her your ready to go. I said, well yes we are. I had to respond to your actions of going down there and filing. You have not told me otherwise. You have said, stuff like "you win" but then things change the next time we talk. You tell me you want to stop everything and then next time we talk that changes.
I will call my attourney and see where we stand with this.

I call and he says, WW attourney just called and said that her client informed her to place everything on hold. My attourney says his reply is that we are ready to proceed. He tells me this thing is a volcano and I need to go now. I could tell by his voice he was pissed at me for dragging my feet. This guy is the toughest divorce lawyer in the area, so i know he knows how to win in court, but I am not sure what to do. You know i would rather save our marriage than bury it if that is possible. I need to hear what she has in mind tonight. So I told him I would call in first thing in the morning. He was not happy with me.
I believe as it stands our hearing would be Monday 9:30 either way.

Man, I don't know what to do here.
Here is what I think:
I know what I have to do at home. I deal in marriage saving, okay. All the concepts of what it will take to try to save our marriage.
Does anything less than that constitute me continuing on with divorce?
I know we have discussed what will "on hold" do for us if she is not willing to work.
I personall think she took this posistion to save face. In other words. Saving her image by saying look at me. He filed and took everything even my kid. Look at what he did to me.....
I know that don't mean _hit towards saving a relationship with this woman. I kinda think she has realized that she has no fighting chance to win in a trial. So does she give in now and let me go on and file and give in to my conditions and she leaves thinking I evened the score for what she did and can now move on to a fresh start with new man. No guilt towards hurting me, no strings to me, and she can move on with out a kid to see if OM is the prince she thinks with out any hassles or ty downs. Maybe visit daughter on week ends. I don't know....
Of course I am hoping for the best and trying to prepare for the worst.

She claims to want to talk about why she placed her attourney on hold tonight...

I think you should hear her out. I find it unlikely she is delaying the process to give her more time to prepare her case. Your divorce attorney works for you. He likes to win and divorce is his business. Your case will not be further compromised by "adjourning" the hearing. In fact it will likely give you more time to prepare and journal (see my email to you a few minutes ago). You as the husband/father have the tougher case to win so the more you look accomodating the better. If she wants to adjourn then adjourn.

Let your attorney know you are continuing to prepare for the hearing should they come about. Ask him if there is any more information that he needs to prepare a better case. Tell him that you love your wife and ultimately hope to save your marriage. Give him a stroke or two by thanking him for the job he is doing and that WW's and her attorney are afraid of him. He is likely quite a bit egotistical and compliments will likely bring him on board.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Its because she is losing....

Nothing has changed Dazed. You still have to protect your daughter from this situation.

Pardner, I've just read your posts for the last few days. You've gotten nothing from her that comes close to a commitment to the marriage. It appears she's still under the OM's domination. Like Lexxxy said, not a darn thing has changed except that she's pretty sure she can't come out on top. Listen to what she says, but unless she's had a miraculous epiphany and she's willing to go NC with OM immediately and start being your wife again, there's nothing changed from what you heard from her during her last ranting and raving session.

Her attorney may have advised her she really doesn't stand chance right now.

So all in one day she gives you 300.00 and a hold on the divorce.....hmmmmmmmmmm

Something is up, but Dazed she isn't repentant yet, and she isn't committing, so keep your guard up with yourself and DD.

Praying for some clear answers for you tonight.


Lady

Dazed,

DO NOT PUT THIS ON HOLD....I speak from experience. The day of our final divorce hearing, my now XH cried, begged and pleaded with me to dismiss the divorce. Insisted he wanted to stay married, insisted he would cut off all contact with OW, etc. I called my attorney who was already at the courthouse. He did as I instructed and dismissed the divorce. It cost me several hundred dollars to do so because, as I said, he was already at the courthouse. XH and I had a great day - very loving, really thought he was sincere. That was on Friday. On Saturday, I was looking at my online checking account statement and discovered that, the Wednesday before, he had purchased a one way airline ticket to OW's country of residence for the following Wednesday - out of my checking account, no less, and despite the temporary orders prohibiting him from using my account. Fortunately, I was able to have the divorce reinstated, heard and granted before he left (helps to have an attorney who has been through this and understands the manipulation, ploys, etc of WS's).

Your WW has done nothing to rid herself of OM. She AND HER ATTORNEY (yes, that is part of the key here) want this "put on hold" as part of some strategy they have developed with regard to dealing with the custody issue. I'm not quite sure what that strategy is, but its a strategy of some type. (I say this because I am an attorney - not a divorce attorney, but an attorney who has litigated many cases - you have a strategy for everything - especially when you're the underdog as your wife is here). Your strategy, on the other hand, should be keeping pressure on the affair to the maximum extent possible. Part of that pressure is maintaining the custody issue - that seems to be your WW's biggest concern hear - not unlike Mortarman's FWW was.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, do not give in to her in the hopes she is going to view you in a better light or that if you do not give in that it will prevent you from recoverying your marriage in the future. The fog is very very thick and NOTHING YOU DO - even postponing the divorce - is going to make a tiddlywink of a difference in her eyes. You are the enemy of the affair and that makes you her enemy - regardless of what you do. I know this because I know how my WH treated me despite my bending over backwards to try and appease him. I know how thick the fog is because my OW is now out of my XH's life and he has acknowledge what an addiction it was and how thick the fog truly is. Now, after being divorced for a year and a half, he acknowledges that he made a tremendous mistake. GO FORWARD WITH THE HEARING...its not the "final" final decision with regard to custody or anything else. It is, in all likelihood, just for what are called temporary orders...they spell out who gets temporary custody of DD, who gets to stay in the marital residence, any temporary alimony, etc. during the pendency of the divorce proceeedings. You're just getting started....

Please please please consider what I have said. Your wife is using you. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

Regards,

BB

A divorce is simply an ending of a contract and the division of assets and responsibilities. At the moment the dice will fall in your favor. There is nothing that says your WW (then XWW) has to stay away from you after divorce or is not allowed to be around D. Only difference is that it is then your choice. You could tell her that you are willing to carry on trying to save your marriage after a divorce and if things work out remarry.

Carry on with the D. Tell your wife that the wheels are rolling and you are resigned to what she set off (or whatever fog-sounding excuse your use). It will take some time and is not finalized until you sign. You can stall for days or weeks – come to think of it you can tell her that the D will go on but you might be willing to stall signing the final contract.

The ONLY reasons to stall the D are (a) a commitment from WW to the marriage or (b) some sign that your plan A is really getting results. It has gotten you farther than I expected, but I feel it is stuck in some rut right now. Maybe D pressure will shake WW off the fence.

Compare her armory to yours: She has OM and Truck Skank. That’s it. You have plan A going. The D lined up to your advantage, plan B lurking like a neutron bomb, your D and all the zealots at MB. Sort of makes me feel sorry for WW.

Dazed,

Thought I would add that, with regard to my post above, this all occurred after my husband had already left once for a six month period to "try out" his relationship with OW....lived with her, came back home, went back and lived with her after the divorce. They are now split.

Regards,

BB

Brit's advice is so good!

She hasn't had that "break-through" yet. You'll know when it happens -- when she is truly remorseful.

Anything she does in the meantime is just manipulation and should not be trusted.

Please do not delay your Monday court date -- she's simply trying to gain equal footing if not the upper hand -- because clearly right now you have the better case.

I still firmly believe your wife will return Dazed. Don't lose hope -- but also don't lose your advantage. This is simply part of what must happen. Don't agonize over it -- just get through it.

Hang in there!

Okay, it isnt often that Mr. Wondering and I disagree, but in this case...I have to say that you need to go forward.

Monday isnt the divorce. It is just the first hearing, and will decide temporary custody. it will put into place what will most likely happen once this thing is finished. You are in the position of strength right now...but nothing says it will remain that way.

In the meantime, your wife is showing every indication that she wants to bolster her position. She knows she cant win right now. So, she stays in the house, puts money in your account, etc. in order to make it look like you arent the sole parent there. Dont you fall for that! She is not repentent...not at all. Not yet! She has further to fall yet. Please dont stop that fall...it is probably the only hope your marriage has.

Your talks with her were fine. You kept turning it back on message...and back to the central issue which is her adultery. Keep this up. I was especially impressed with how you took that control issue and showed her how the Om is REALLY controlling her. That is something you should repeat also.

Dazed, go forward with Monday. It wont cause you to lose your marriage. But it will cause her to be stuck with a happy OM (because the divorce will have moved forward) and an unhappy WW. She will be looking at him, just as my wife did when she lost custody, and will think "I lost my daughter in order to be with you...and you're happy?" A woman that loses custody of their kids is a BIG deal! It goes right to the core of who they are.

So, dont stop anything. You said it to her...there has been no changes...just a lot of talk that changes the next day. So, since there has been no changes, you go forward.

Take it from a guy that got custody AND recovered his marriage.

In His arms.

She can't hit bottom in her addiction to the OM if you don't let her fall...... I totally agree with Lexxxy and Brit, go forward.

How was y'alls talk last night?

MM -- good points.

I want to stress something to you Dazed. Being a mother is part of her identity! Its part of the core of her being. She KNOWS that she is making choices in conflict with her desire to be a good mother.

She thought she was going to split up with you and keep DD.
She thought she wasn't going to be challenged on the change in her parenting abilities.

She didn't expect you to step up to the plate the way you have!!!!! She never anticipated that you would become "super-dad" and she would lose DD.

Losing custody is critical to this process. Believe it or not its crucial to her returning to her family. She has to lose to get it all back.

If you go along with 50/50...or delay so that she can strengthen her case....you will prolong her affair.

She will renew the fantasy that her, OM, and your DD can create a new happy family. She will think that DD will eventually come around. Kids adapt. She'll start thinking that DD might be angry now, but eventually she'll spend lots of time around mom and OM and see how HAPPY mom is and be HAPPY for mom. Everyone's happy. BLUCH!

However if DD is under dad's almost CONSTANT supervision and influence, DD will NEVER accept Mom's fantasy life. That really wrecks things Dazed!

Lexxxy is absolutely correct! Mrs. Mortarman found that out. The day before our custody hearing, she was all smug and said "I am under no illusion that you will get custody." The day of the hearing, she walks over to my table right before the judge comes in and says "you can bring the kids clothes by this afternoon...or I can come pick them up right after we are done here."

An hour later, she lost primary custody of our kids to me.

From that moment on, the relationship with the OM changed forever. As Lexxxy said, she thought she could have it all. But as my wife said, the fact that a judge was saying that her relationship with the OM was so wrong that he ruled that she shouldnt have custody of her kids was like a nuclear bomb going off in the fog. She said she called the OM right after court and cried. But what could he say? All he could say was "it'll be alright."

But in her mind, how could it be alright. "Sure, OM...it'll be alright for you. You can do anything you want. You didnt just lose your kids. All you care about is getting me."

And that last statement was what broke the fog for good. She had allowed someone in her life that had no regard, respect or interest for the best interests of her children. And a mother that realizes that IMMEDIATELY knows what to do!

Like I said, it was like a light switching on for her. No way that relationship was ever going to make it after that. she saw his selfish actions and what they were doign to her (of course later on, she began to see her own selfish actions).

So, you need to let this go. Go forward Monday and do the right thing. As Dobson says in his book, you need to open the cage door and let her fly out. Let her hit the ground. It is what will ultimately save her and your marriage.

In His arms.

Mr.W- Thanks for the great information and advice in your email. I will prepare my journals to be presented to my attourney and court room. I would also like to note that i have retained every email that we have written over the course of the entire year. Stuff even pre-dating D-Day that can be useful.

LEXXXY-MORT: Sadly I think you are correct. She is going have to hit. I had hoped I would never have to see that. It has always been my roll to catch her when she is falling. ((IRONIC) Over the years we would have this little game where she would let herself (for real) fall over backwards while standing in front of me and I would catch from falling. Just making sure you will catch me if I ever fall. I would say of course I will always be there for you. Over time we would do this and often not even say the lines. Just kiss and look at each with love. Yeah, off the task at hand, but a great memory or us.)

Okay- There was no talk about us last night.
She came home at 6:30, I left to go get dinner and did not return until 7:00. We all ate dinner including daughter and her friend. WW took daughter to dance at 7:30 and did not return until 8:45 after dance class. She was in the bath room for 20 minutes. Then fell a sleep on the couch at 9:45.

This morning was really no different than others.
She asked me what idea I had to repair her car. I had told her yesterday that I knew how to get her car repaired cheap and easy.
I told her my idea. She says, no just forget about it. I don't want you fixing it. That kinda pissed me off. I am a car guy that either works on my cars my self or has someone I know do it. I said, okay are you going to fix it? She says, maybe. I said, well it's probably just that you can't let me drive the car around or even have in my possesion with out someone getting mad. She says, well it is my car and you are ready get in it too much anyway with your extra key and I dont have a key to your truck. I said, well you had a key to my truck until you took off your key chain...Plus, because you are my wife I always considered the car as being ours. So, yes I do have an extra key to it. I have done all the work on that car so why should I think any different about it. EOC.

I approached her later and said, WW - I am done.... I am done arguing with you. She says, well you just never could read me and I can't read you. I never know what is really going on in your head. You just either ignore me or don't know what I am really thinking.
I said, well I am a face value person. There is no games going on. I don't understand you about when you say, no and are really thinking yes. Or say Yes, and really think no. Or when yes mean yes or no means no. Just tell me what you want, and I will listen to what comes from your mouth and take that as it is. I will do the same for you. She says, you just can't read me. I could be cring on the couch and you say, hi how was your day or not even look at me. I said, I never have just ignored you. Yes, at times it is hard for me to know how to approach you. You like to yell and argue with me. I do not like that. This is what I am trying to tell you. She got mad at me. Said, I pause to much when I talk so she knows I am just searching for the right words to say and its not really what i think. I said, so you are saying your mouths works with out your brain thinking? She said, well your probably just saying what Dr. Harley programmed you to say... How can I believe you and your changes? I just don't know if you are really changing or its just Dr. Harley crap or you are just out to win me back and if you do it all goes back.
I started to talk, and she says, just stop...STOP... She walked up stairs. I went up and finished getting ready. I went over to her and she says, so let me guess. Dr. Harley says, you should always leave her on a good note, so what it is that you have to say? I said, you just blew it. I have nothing to say to you... I left the room.

I sent her this email today-
WW-You are at work and busy, so I figured I would just write.
Knowing legal stuff is on hold, I am confused about what you want to do, and the future of us.
Maybe we can talk about it offline some time. When ever you want or can…
c u later
BS

WW-called right back. Smuggly says, Why would you send an email like that? I said, what are you talking about. She says, You think I don't know the lawyer is on hold? I said, I just want to know what you think about us? I am confused by what it is you are doing. Another line rings, she puts me on hold. When she comes back her voice has not lightened up. She says, I will never read you. I am busy but can I call you later? I said, sure.