Johng,

I am just compelled to share a little of our conversation last night so I can explain my position and so others can chime in.

In about 4 weeks she has planned to go to visit her parents and relative of OM in OM's hometown for Thanksgiving. This is the granddaddy of all FIXES for the long distance affair addict. They have spent months building up their relationship to that reward and she will stop at nothing to get it. Everything she does right now is focused on being able to go. All her arguments about time, not being ready, and needing a few more weeks are all geared around that trip. WW's are completely focused on that next face to face fix and getting it. She probably wants to meet the Pastor herself to make the promise to him that in December she will definetly go to No Contact.

IMO, you can not really achieve to No Contact until this solo trip with your daughter is addressed. It either needs to be prevented or you need to go with her. Once you put a nail in that coffin then perhaps your WW will finally give up, capitulate and go to No Contact.

When you bring this up you are likely to be met with the biggest meanest hissy-fit ever. Her whole being revolves around this contact. She will threaten everything in order to go (which is why going with her may be your best bet). She will tell you they are just going to be friends now or she needs "closure". You will hear it all but it needs to be addressed.

However, if you end up letting her go you will need to wait a few weeks on the Plan B thing because she may be easier to get to no contact after the trip as they will not have an immediate plan to see each other. Also, their contact may not be all that she dreamed of because of your interference, your knowledge of it and hopefully OM ending it.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Maybe you should call OM again and ask him how he is holding up. Fiegn concern for his withdrawal and buddy up with him. Him ending it is the best proposition.

I forgot to mention after the hissy-fit does not work she is likely to take another tact to get that trip by herself. She will act like she is repentent and make love to you till the cows come home to get what she wants and shut you up.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by fox40

Sorry I misinformed the board and I apologize if I offended you at all for sharing my misperceptions here. I really am trying to help.

I, too, thought my wife had gone crazy. Her father is bi-polar and I thought I saw the tendencies in her behavior. Now I know it was all the affair addiction. Your wife is willing to give up everything in her life...family, friends, and God to get it. WS's usually start to believe God meant for this to happen...they start following their heart as their God...they become completely deceived.

Let us know what OM says. May be interesting. Maybe let him know that any contact over Thanksgiving and you are done with her...Actually, no...do not give him any information about your plans...that would be like giving the enemy your battle plans. Just stick with feigned compassion.

If your wife finds out about phone call then you know they are in contact again. Expose him. Keep the pressure up on his end. This has the added benefit of putting pressure on their relationship. No longer do they talk of love and roses. It becomes panic and desparation which a single OM might not like. It becomes to "real" and difficult. He has added pressure of having to talk to you. Try to make him meet your needs for conversation and sympathy as well...talk to him as long as he will let you. Tape the phone call if you want...you may get him to say some weak stuff "on the record" so to speak.

Stay strong...this is not near over for you...keep up the Plan A. Once you get WW out it really does get better. Try to take a break from the cyclone that is your life right now and get out for a date with wife (a movie or something) with no relationship talk. The more alone time with her the better.

Mr. Wondering

Post deleted by fox40

You have a plan. Just a couple more weeks. Then she will be disciplined by the church and put out of God's presence and protection. As well as yours.

That is the definition of He!!, Johng. A personal he!! awaits her in just a few short weeks. she may not see it...but it is coming nonetheless!

What else is coming for you? Peace. Joy. He has promised that. So, stay the course a little while longer. You are not the one that needs to worry now. You have been obedient to the Word and have shown agape to your wife. The Lord will take care of you.

Your wife, on the otherhand, falls into the passage in Hebrews 10 which says that it is a "terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God." She may not care what God says. But God does care when His children rebel.

Once you go to Plan B, get you and your kids out of the way. This is serious business and your wife is about ready to run straight into the wrath and discipline of an angered Father. It is not going to be pretty.

Lean on Him. You are doing fine. Stay with your plan. He'll take care of the rest.

In His arms.

Post deleted by fox40

John-

My prayers to you, my friend. What a difficult time, to be dealing with your health issues as well as your wife's infidelity issues at the same time.

It sounds to me like you may be forced to an earlier plan B than you would have liked, based on your WW's crazy actions and plans. I don't have any suggestions for you at this point...your WW sounds almost poisonous at this point...she sounds like someone who wants to hurt you as much as she wants to continue her A.

I will pray for you my friend...

John,

You need to believe that you are fine. You are, as I type at the end of all of my posts, "In His arms." So, learn to relax in that. We too often get worried because we think we control these things. But it is in fact, Him that controls all things. So, all we can do is get in the way and screw things up. That is unless we are following Him. And you have been.

I agree it is time for Plan B. Make sure that your wife understands in that Plan B letter that church discipline will proceed immediately. That if/until she meets the conditions of the PBL, then all the things in it will remain in force. That you will not speak to her again. That church discipline will proceed. And more.

She is in a very dangerous place, John. And you know it. Get out of the way! You cannot save your wife from herself. You must now leave her in His hands, knowing His loving discipline will be best. It may be harsh (and I think it will be in her case), but it will be loving.

You are fine. You will be fine. The question now is will you be fine on your own or with your wife. Dont worry about that. It truly is in His hands now. Once you go Plan B and take her in front of the church, then there is nothing more for you to do for this marriage. You will be completely out of the loop. But Christ wont be.

I had a cousin who's wife met a guy at the church. She wouldnt stop the affair. And get this...when they brought her before the church, she stood in front of the congregation and said that she would not stop the affair. I mean, my wife didnt even show up. This gal shows up AND says she wont stop.

Can you get the picture of a 17 year old girl stomping her feet at daddy, saying that she is not going to do what he said? That is your wife, John. But as her Father, what does the Bible say that he does with children who stomp their feet at Him and rebel against His commandments? As you know, Hebrews 10 spells out perfectly where your wife is headed.

So, calm down...look to Him. And know where YOU are at. You are fine...more than fine. You have been obedient to Him, you have shown to your family, kids, friends, church, etc that you are a man of integrity and that you fear the Lord. Whether you know it or not, your wife has seen this too.

So, go to Plan B and get your pastor to move forward with this. She may say "Well ,the affair has ended...but I am just leaving John." Okay. But her leaving is also a violation of God's commandments, as she is to respect you and submit to you (which she isnt doing) as well as the fact that she has NO Biblical grounds for divorce (while you do). So, she is equally as rebellious to God...which means church discipline continues!

Stand back now and watch Jesus work. You get to sit i nthe stands and watch. While it wont be pretty for your wife, you will see both the Lord's awesome power and the righteous anger...as well as His perfect love. It will be quite sight to behold.

In His arms.

Post deleted by fox40

I doubt this, John. read about God in the Bible. look at the stories on here. Look at my own situation. My wife had just gone to Florida with the OM in December 2002 to meet his family. And 6 weeks of Plan B later...she was on my doorstep wanting reconciliation.

One of the things that I know about the Lord is that He is constantly coming in when things look impossible. It seems to be His modus operandi. It is like He lets it get to the point so that when it turns out well, no one can boast that they had ANYTHING to do with it. that all the praise and glory go to Him.

So, I would say that what I have seen here and where you are at...you are probably a lot closer to the Lord and your marriage a lot close to possible reconciliation, than you have ever been.

On tonight...stay tough. It is time to stand watch on your boundaries. No breaches, no breaks. Your pastor and church will help support you in this. Your wife has got to hit bottom, and long before she gets to next June. She must feel it now. So, let her. If she wants to talk about "working on things" tonight, give her a little pre-Plan B stuff. That the only way to stop things now and for you two to work on things is for all contact with Om to end and for her to submit herself to the pastor and the professional your pastor suggested. That she submit herself to a plan of recovery. And so on.

Any hesitation...then the conversation ends. I mean it. End the conversation. Just tell her that this is not a negotiation. That it is time that she as a married Christian woman step up and follow Christ and act like a married Christian woman.

John, be strong for her. I thin kthere is a good chance that she will come around. but I also believe it is going to take some serious thwacks of virtual 2x4s to get her there. So stay on point, do not change course. Go to Plan B...and get the church started.

You have nothing to lose and nothing to fear. Remember, Jesus already won!

In His arms.

Oh yeah, and the comment I made about her changing things to she just wants to leave (and you said she is saying that)...

Remind her that she is not authorized by God to divorce. She has no grounds. Thus, her not submitting to her husband, her trying to divorce...are direct violations of God's commandments and a rebellion on her part. Thus, she still gets the same consequences.

You are her pastor, John. Remind her of what Scripture says. I know she probably knows this. But as her pastor, you should never back down from a wife that wants to ignore the Word of God. You give it to her...if she choses to disobey, then you turn her over to Christ. And then with Him...she will be without excuse!

In His arms.

Post deleted by fox40

When does the church discipline start? I think that needs to happen before she goes out there. That way she cannot claim that she wasnt in the area when it went through and she needed to be here for it. So, I would tell pastor to start things today and to call your wife and tell her that he is starting things.

I will contact you shortly about direct contact between you and me.

In His arms.