I know this will be long but appreciate anyone who will take time to read it and reply. I am just at a loss this morning after an evening that started out well and ended terribly with a call from a OW. I'm at work after about 2 hours of sleep, and it's definitely going to be a rough day !

For those who have not read any of my previous posts, H and I had a situation 4 years ago, where H had a brief "fling"
with someone he met on the internet, followed by a short EA with a recently widowed, older, woman. I did find MB, and tried to do both Plan A and B, which had some success but
was also complicated by the fact that my H has some mental/
emotional health issues. (previously diagnosed with depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder). Things had
improved for a period of about 3 years. Then, this year,
things had started to go downhill again.
H started a new business in January, and as soon as he had his own office, own computer, own accounts, etc. his behavior began to change to become very secretive, defensive, and suspicious.
He began to work longer than normal hours, and I became sure that he was spending time on the internet, likely viewing porn or dating type sites. I saw a few credit card bills later which confirmed this and confronted him- he tried to deny, but eventually would cancel the services,
only to re-subscribe later on a different credit card.
Our anniversary was just before Valentine's day, and for the first time ever, H didn't want to do anything to celebrate- he didn't even give me a card or a wish for a nice day- just stayed at work late as usual. He also seemed to lose all interest in SF, another worrisome sign to me-

Things were up and down for the next couple of months- things would seem to get better, we'd make future plans, spend most all our free time together, and I'd feel better,
but then there would be a late night again, or H would have
some odd stories that just didn't seem right- I'd also find amounts of cash in his briefcase or wallet and some odd receipts.

By June, H was going out more often- frequently to a "stripper" bar in our neighborhood, which I detest. He
would drink too much, spend too much, and had a couple of
scary issues with drinking then driving home. It became clear that he was having major issues and seemed very unhappy but he would not talk about anything, didn't want to go to counseling or do anything to help himself, or M.
Due to these behaviors, we fought more often and I began to
feel very "clingy" and desperate.

In July, the same continued- he denied anything going on and insinuated I was just "paranoid" or "crazy". He began to say that he wasn't happy- due to me or due to being married, and seemed to be going through a very difficult time within himself. His behavior became so erratic that I felt the medicine he was on (had started a new AD) was having a bad effect, and I encouraged him to go back to the Dr to discuss it or change medicines, but he didn't want to do that. I got online and "snooped" on the cell phone bill, finding that he had numerous calls to the same numbers,
some at odd times, and started "tracking" them, finding that they belonged to females. I did some reading and
discovered that H seemed to have some of the signs of SA,
and putting that information together with his odd receipts
(including one at a motel), his lack of SF at home, and some other odd things, began to suspect he might even be
dealing with an escort service.
I called one of the females from his phone bill, and found that she was indeed someone he had met online. She had never met him in person, had just "chatted" on the computer
and phone, but he had told her he was single, no kids, and
a successful businessman (all untrue). She was shocked to discover this and said if he ever contacted her again, he
would have nothing to do with him.

The next phone bill, there were at least 39 calls to another phone number- yet another woman. Also, lots of text messages. Debated calling her, but decided that I might be fighting an losing battle, as it seemed like he would just "move on" and find another person and it might never end. In mid August, found out that H had purchased a packet of seperation/divorce paperwork at the courthouse.
It sat at our house for awhile with him saying "he just wanted to look at it", then he took it, but nothing happened and nothing was said about it for a couple of weeks. During this time, H went away for a weekend trip-
said it was business-related and with a business acquaintance whom I know. Didn't like it and felt it likely
was a "cover". Later found he had gone to a different city,
and the amounts for the meals looked like it was two people, so I assume it was him meeting one of these internet people. The following week, H says he is just
"not happy" and thinks he doesn't want to be married.
Says he wants to be "one his own", "do his own thing", and
"have his own things". Insists that none of this has any
thing to do with another woman, but I don't buy it.
He brings home the legal paperwork, with just the first
page filled out (general information) and tells me I should
read it, then goes away again for the weekend and this time won't tell me anything about the trip.
Over the weekend, I get a call from his credit card company saying they have flagged his card for suspicious or unusual activity and they wonder if he is currently in Las Vegas??
I assumed he had stayed somewhere locally, so am surprised and angry to find out he's flown to Vegas !! Also wonder
if he's gone along, or with someone. I relay the message
to him about his card, so he knows that I know where he is.

When he gets back, he says he will be going out of town
again, and he wants us to do the divorce paperwork-
immediately ! He rants and raves, cusses, yells and fusses
when I act hesitant, try to talk about things, ask him to
slow down, ask him to see a counselor, or do anything that is not going along with "his plan". He wants to file the
paperwork before he goes out of town, but I refuse, as I wanted to talk to a lawyer and find out more before going
further. Finally, he calms down and agrees that he'll just
leave it with me, with the agreement that I'll see a lawyer,
my Ic, and then fill out my portion and sign the paperwork.
He says he'll come home at the end of the week and pick it up.
I am devestated and horrified by it all, but after talking to a lawyer find out I cannot keep things from proceeding
whether I want D or not. He says signing does not mean that
I agree, just makes us "co-petitioners" and avoids the paperwork being served on me at work. I relunctantly sign and leave the paperwork for H to pick up at our house while I'm at work. However, I come home and find that H hadn't
even been there yet- don't hear anything from him or see him, until two days later when I come home and find he's
been there to get some clothes, pick up mail, drop off
receipts, etc. Also find he's taken his wedding ring (which he had not been wearing for a couple of weeks), and has
LEFT the paperwork untouched.
He later calls to say he's not going to come back to stay at the house (up to the day he left on the last trip we
were both in our home, and still sleeping in the same bed).
We talk periodically in regards to bills, our dog, etc.
but have little contact. My Ic suggested I do nothing and
not ask about the paperwork, so I just left things alone.

Labor Day weekend- I flew out of town to visit my sister
and had told H in advance. I came home to find that he had
been at the house and this time had taken the paperwork, so
feel very down, assuming he is going to file.
As time passes, however, he doesn't appear to be doing anything with it. He occasionally calls- sometimes for very
unnecessary reasons. He asks me out to lunch a few times,
with no apparent motive. He asks if I am agreeable to changing us over to a different health insurance because the
rates are better, which we did.

Two weeks ago, he really surprised me by remembering my birthday. We had talked during the day, but he didn't say
anything so I assumed he forgot but got home and there were a dozen roses and a card on the kitchen table. Then, the following weekend he called and asked me to dinner. He came to the house a few times, spending more time, eating, and
watching some TV, and his behavior seemed a little more normal. I began to feel a little hopeful that maybe his
A (or A's) had ended and he might be coming out of the "fog". I found that he had changed the online phone
bill password, so I couldn't check the cell phone calls
again, but did find out the count of text messages was
WAY down, which also made me a feel a little encouraged.
He also has seemed very unhappy, quiet, and tired, so
I thought he might be in a "withdrawal" mode, also a
good thing.

Yesterday he called to ask if he could come over last night as it was our dog's birthday. (not having kids, our dog
is our "kid") and I said that would be fine. He was there
for over an hour, ate dinner, was pleasant, and I kept my cool- not any R talk, no questions, no pressure. Thought
if he was possibly thinking of working on things, I just
wanted to a present a path in that direction. Felt pretty
good after he left-
UNTIL- I am getting ready for bed and the phone rings.
A female (who knows my name) tells me her name, and says
she has been seeing my H for the past 2-3 months, and she
wants to know if I am "okay with that". !!!????
I was very shocked, but kept my cool, and said "Well, NO
since he is my husband, I love him, I'm working very hard
on our marriage, and married people are not supposed to be
dating/seeing others !!!" She proceeded to tell me that
he has been living with her since he moved out (he never would tell me where he was staying) and had told her we
were in the middle of a divorce. She wanted to know if that
was true, and I said that while it had been discussed (by him), we were not currently in the process and I was still
working to save my marriage, if possible. We ended up talking for about 2 hours and she actually seemed like a
nice, sincere person who had no idea what she was getting herself in to with WH.
Found out she "met" him online when she lived in another state. She was moving to our area and he was more than willing to help her with arrangements and basically "swept
her off her feet". Found out she was with him on the trip to Las Vegas and the other "mystery" trips were him coming to see her in Arizona, and him helping her drive a horse trailer here when she moved ! Now that he's been living with her for about two months, she said she was noticing some very strange things with him and they were having big problems and she has asked him to move out.
Apparently she had enough "instinct" to know he was not
telling her the whole truth about many things, just as he
has done with me all along. She did know a fair amount of things about him, but he had also told her some things that were absolutely far out and untrue (that he had past military service and had been a football player in Canada).
She said he had said some negative and unflattering things about me, although not a whole lot, and that he was making her think that we had very little contact, just him picking up and paying all the bills (not true). We were able to
match up some dates/times and realized he is kind of playing both of us ! The night he asked me to dinner, they
had just had a fight and she had told him to leave the house ! Also found out she had accompanied him to a recent business function I knew about (I attended last year) and
he called me from the function to tell me how it was boring, not that much fun alone, etc ! Apparently,
while there, WH bought her a painting for $5000 !!
(And he's also bought a horse since he's been with her,
because she has horses and lives on horse property !)

Also found out two things that were very hurtful. We had three vehicles "his", "mine", and "ours") and a few weeks ago he had come home saying he had found someone to buy
the spare vehicle and wanted me to sign the title. We
discussed and did agree on it, with the proceeds being split. I had asked him right at the time who was buying it,
and he said it was a friend of a business acquaintance.
I straight out asked him if he was selling or giving this
vehicle to some "GF" and he said NO. Well, found out from
her last night, that she did buy it from him.
She also said she wondered if he had some sexual issues
or problems- apparently he has been watching porn, had
shown some strange SF tastes with her (as in her wearing
some particular costumes), and she had caught him....er
pleasuring himself a few times. I said we had no recent
sex life, due to all the issues, but I had not run into
those issues with him before ! (Boy, if I was her, I'd
be running to the Dr today for some STD tests !!)

Even worse- OW told me that she had gotten pregnant with H.
She said he was excited, wanted them to have the baby, and
was really pushing hard to be making plans, get fully
involved in her life. She said she was already getting
"leery" at this point, wasn't anywhere near being ready
to have a baby with him, and was talking about an abortion
when she had a miscarriage.
This hurt the most because H and I have no kids. Had planned and talked about them prior to and early in our
marriage, but it had become a "sticky" point with us in
recent years as H said he did't want to have any.
Knowing he would want to have a child with some Ow he's
known 3 months, and not with his wife he's been with 10 years was devestating.
Finally, we got off the phone. She said he where there,
at the house while we had been talking, and she was somewhat afraid of him, having seen his grouchy moods and
temper. She said she had asked him to move out and he had
said he would do it by this weekend, but she wasn't sure
if he was really going to.
That made me wonder if his recently being nice with me was
"just in case" he had no where to go and wanted to move back home !?? Made me feel sick to know he could be so
devious and dishonest to both of us. Pretty bad when you
are cheating our your GF with your own WIFE !!!
She really seemed to want my advise on what she should do,
and I had to say "I don't even know what to do myself".
We hung up quickly as she thought he might be listening at
the door, but she gave me her phone number.

A short time later, my Wh called me- cussing, fussing,
ranting and raving. Wanted to know "what the *$#@@" I
thought I was doing", wanted to know why "I was in his
business", said he was doing his best to be kind and
considerate to me "in all this" and that I had just
"stabbed him in the back". I stayed calm- said "it was
your GF who called me, not the other way around, therefore
I have not gotten in your business or stabbed you in the back, and nothing has changed with you and I situation."
He hung up on me once, then called back, still fuming and
going on and on about how he's being as nice as can be,
knowing that our being seperated is hard for me, but
him paying on all the bills, not pushing for us to sell
our house until I have somewhere to stay, etc.
He said GF had told him he had lied to both she and I
and he wanted to know what I had told her. I said
"we both know you have lied numerous times to me about
a wide variety of things" but I couldn't speak for her
and that was between them. I wasn't going to tell him
what exactly had been said and tried to indicate that I
was not getting involved in the situation between them.
Then, he said due to my "back stabbing", the "claws
were going to come out" starting today, and he would no
longer be "Mr. Nice Guy", so he wanted to know exactly
what I wanted from our house- right then (this is at 1am !)
When I said this isn't a good time to talk, I have to go
to bed- he said it was just "typical" of me, to be stalling
and he wasn't going to put up with that anymore.
He hung up after saying he would be coming over by this
weekend to get all his stuff (right now just has some of
his clothes and his toiletries). I said, "WH, I have not
bothered any of your things, have not been bothering you,
am not in your business, and had been nothing but kind
and considerate of you, so don't know why you are acting
this way to me, but guess you will have to do what you
need to do". We then hung up-

I talked to a dear friend for awhile, then tried to sleep
but between the "trauma" of the events and a thunderstorm
I didn't get much sleep. Wondered a bit about OW, and hoped that she was okay if she and WH got into a big confront- tion. Hoped that WH didn't go out mad, drink, and get in an
accident. Wished this was all a bad dream so I could wake up-

I suposed that in a way this could be viewed as a good thing, as it sounds like the A is on pretty thin ice, but
after all I found out from her, discovering more lies from H, and just all that's been going on all year, I don't know
if there's ANY hope for recovery or if I should just give up and go with the divorce. I am too tired to even think
clearly today, but just feel "creepy" about the whole
thing and WH. Don't know if I should, but even feel some
sympathy for OW, as she just moved here to a new state,
thought she had a "knight in shining armor" and is now with a lying, cheating man who has major mental/emotional issues, possible SA, money problems, etc ! I think she may
have a very hard time getting rid of him due to his being
very obsessive, and having an addictive type personality.

Any input and lots of support needed- just don't know what to think, do, feel ! Don't know how H that was once loving,
fun, kind, and sensitive has changed into THIS WH.
Slammed


Me- BS,42
WH- 38
No kids together, but H has two girls from previous R
6 yr old border collie/black lab is our "kid"
Married 7 years, together for 10
2000- H diagnosed with depression, OCD, starts long string
of meds he's tried (not much luck)
2001- H has inappropriate internet "fling" (1mos) followed by EA with older, recently widowed woman. I moved out for
awhile. H asked to get back together, and worked on recovery.
2002-2004 Things better
2005- Strange, suspicious behavior begins again. H back on
the internet. Using escort service? Internet "friends" ?
10/18/05- OW contacts me

***thought she had a "knight in shining armor" and is now with a lying, cheating man who has major mental/emotional issues, possible SA, money problems, etc !***

I think you just summed up your *own* situation very well.

From what you describe, this man has far more serious problems than you or MB can help him with. Seems like the first place you need to go is to a lawyer to protect your asssets and then, at the very least, get a legal separation.

"Protect Yourself And Your Money and Stop Trying To Rescue Him" is the best advice I can give you.
Mulan

The fact the OW talked about his temper and then his reaction on the phone I would definitely consider the advice of a lawyer to ensure I was protected legally.

My heart is breaking for you!
You need to call a lawyer NOW. You need to tell them that you need an emergency appointment.
This man has financial difficulties and yet he just spent 5000 on a painting for the OW. You have to protect yourself right away. At this point he could be incurring all sorts of debt that you could be responsible for later. You can not afford to hesitate on this.

I am going to be very bold here - I don't know what your intentions are - I don't know if you are still trying to save your M, but I have to be honest, I wonder why you would try to save it at this point. This man appears to be a serial cheater. It would seem like you are constantly fighting to "bring him home" and "keep him faithful.".
Aren't you getting tired of the fight at this point?

am I going to be in trouble for saying that on the MB web site???

I am also worried about your safety. I would seriously consider a restraining order so he can not just show up this weekend and take whatever he wants from the house.
Not that you want to keep him from having the stuff that is his - but he needs to do it properly.He is the one required to come up with a list.

I am disgusted with the whole idea that he would purchase D paper work and just leave it laying around telling you he was just "looking at it". To me, that is an emotionally abusive thing to do to you. You were probably walking around on egg shells for weeks - months - afraid that anything you said or did would push him over the edge.

I suspect that you have tolerated this abusive behavior for so long you don't even know what it is like to be comfortable in your home.

Hugs to you.

((((slammed))))
Wow, what a post. I'm not a wise one but a few things came to mind. First....PROTECT yourself, legally, financially, physically and emotionally.
Have you been checked for STD's?
It sounds like WH is VERY unstable and off meds.
Have you changed the locks?

It sounds like you have been in plan A. It sounds like he is about to crash and burn. What about plan B?

Do not let him back into the house. If he is to move out of OW home -he will move back into your home. I would put all of his stuff in the garage. I would change the locks so he has no access to your home. For your safety. He is a serial chaet -he even cheated on OW taking you out. Oh boy hon -take care of you please -call alawyer do what these fine people have advised you. Peace will come into your life.

Mulan, AskMe, Womanof Faith, Realtor and Confused-
Thanks for your replies.

I agree that WH has some very major problems and they
seem to be getting worse. He seems to have all the "usual"
WS traits and FOG, complicated by his mental health.
It's been very sad to see such a change- he was not like
this when we met and got together and it's a loss of a
person who used to have some very wonderful traits.
I know that I can't do anything to "fix" him, much as I'd like to, and that unless he makes the effort to get help
and work on himself, I guess there isn't much chance of
things working out with me or anyone else.

I am not scared of WH, as he's never been physical with
me, but have seen him punch a hole in a door years ago.
I think OW was scared that he would "go ballistic" if he
found out she was calling me.
He has been on numerous AD's, and even tried some meds for
Adult ADD, but has not found one yet that really helps him
much. He was on a new medicine early this year, which I
thought made him worse, and he quit it after 3 months, so
is now on no medicine. Either way, he is impatient, and gets
easily agitated by small things, but it usually just results in mumbling and fussing, and I just ignore it.

I did talk to a lawyer when he was originally pushing the
divorce paperwork, just to get some suggestions on how to
handle things and how things "worked". I was told that I
cannot keep WH out of the house unless I get a restraining
order, and that I'm not likely to be able to get one since
H does not have a history of violence.
I also am not allowed to change the locks, remove any of his items, destroy anything ,etc.
The lawyer did suggest that I make copies of the paperwork on our house, lot we own, bills, etc. and I have done that.
I also took pictures of each room in the house, just to
document the furniture, condition of things, etc.

Back when H was talking about filing for D and splitting
assets, he was being reasonable about things- and wanted to
just work out all our own arrangements as to avoid the cost
of lawyers. I am okay with this but will not settle for less than I deserve and fair terms and have said so.
He has run up BIG credit card bills with the trips, gifts,
and entertainment of OW's, but they are on his own credit
card- fortunately we have no joint accounts.

He has also been paying the bulk of all our bills, as his
income is higher than mine. As long as he was continuing
this I was not in a rush to file paperwork, plus didn't
want to have the expense of filing, but if he starts to
waiver or balk on paying, I could do the legal seperation
to define who is paying what.

On our house, I love it but know that I cannot afford it
on my income, so will have to sell. At first, WH was
pushing hard for us to finish up a few home projects so
we could get it on the market right away. The projects
have been mostly finished now and WH has made no recent
mention of putting it up for sale (until last night when
he was mad because of exposure.) As I love our house, and
don't have prospects for a new place, I was not rushing
on that either-

I have not been tested for STD's but I have had my normal
"well woman" exam and pap this year which were fine.
WH and I have had no SF since Dec 04 !

Several people here have reminded me the Harley books do say that the MB principles don't work so well with people who have mental health/addictions, etc so haven't really done a formal/true Plan A or B, but for lack of any other
ideas, I have kind of tried to utilize some of those
tactics. I recently had thought that a Plan B might be
effective, since WH seems to be contacting me and getting
together with me "at his convenience". With the knowledge
I now have of OW, I wonder if I was just the "back up"
plan in case it didn't work out with OW ?

Although I do love H and would dearly love to have our
M and life back, I don't honestly know if there's much
point in continuing to try to work on this. I know I can't
change H or make him get help and I don't think he's
capable right now of having a real relationship with me
or anyone else. I had hoped that he would come "out of the
fog" and think clearly enough to really want to change,
but don't know that anything with me, or M is a big
enough incentive to do everything it would take to get
himself straightened out. I do feel very worn out from
the battle dragging on this long (not that others haven't
gone much longer) but it's been much better and less
stressful since WH has been out of the house.
I think WH misses our dog, don't know that he feels anything for me now. Sad, and such a mess.
Slammed

If they awarded prizes to BS your husband would be a serious contender for the Nobel, Oscar and Olympic Gold. Of all the stories and descriptions I have read on these pages your husband wins in weirdness hands down. You have all my sympathy.

A friend had a similar experience. Her husband had an affair filled with the most outrageous lies to W ad OW. He ran up a debt that eventually cost them their house and savings. After trying and counseling for nearly 2 years she divorced him. He was diagnosed with alcoholism and manic depression.

This friend regrets the two years. Says due to WH illness the end was inevitable. Too much to handle A and illness at same time. She says the 2 years cost her and the kids the financial security they should have had. Although every case is different I would seriously consider cutting your losses.

Slammed,
It sounds like your WH is displaying some bipolar behaviors (manic/depression)...spending sprees, sexual acting out, and add grandiose thinking to the entitlement of fog...what a mess! It sounds like the honeymoon is over and WH can't keep up appearance for OW and she has gotten a peek at whats ahead. It sounds like he will be loosing his place to stay and will be looking to come back to you. What other support does he have in the area..family?...friends? How about you? What kind of support do you have?

I think you need to come up with some kind of plan. He doesn't sound safe to live with. Tell him you don't want him back in the house yet until he is stablized on meds that will a least buy you some time. Most AD take awhile to get therapeutic levels.

Are you sure you want to save this marriage? What is the best you can hope for? What is the worst that can happen? I think it might be a blessing that you don't have children with him right now...it would complicate things even more.

My xh did same stufff...except mine blew 30k in vegas in a 3 day weekend with OW...now W.

Do as advised. Call attorney. Freeze assets. File NOW! but on your terms. He's sick.

And the more I'd expose my xh, he'd get angry. He did for sure do same thing.

My xh lived a double life hon.

And as far as the OW goes...DO NOT PAY HER ANY MIND.

My xh's now W...the former OW...called me distressed...he had hit her 2 years ago...broken same mirror he'd broken w/me in master bath...he had been horrid and evil..blah blah blah.

Turns out she was preggers too!

What a woman of ideals huh?

Do not listen to one ounce of her blather.

She used her getting pregnant as a lever to cause our divorce to speed up ok?

An OW is an OW. She is out for HER NEEDS AND DOES NOT GIVE ONE DARNED OUNCE ABOUT YOURS OK? IS SHE GONNA SELL THE PAINTING AND GIVE YOU BACK YOUR MONEY???A HONEST PERSON WOULD DO THAT.

You could always ask her for the money that the painting cost and SEE WHAT SHE SAYS OR DOES...you'd be surprised.

She thinks maybe she is in a contest with you...and her "honesty" will help you push over the edge.

I would go very dark.

Plan B to the max time. And I'd separate with MY lawyer deciding how to divide assets.

Do NOT listen to a venomous WS...and most likely a venomous OW.

Btw...FV and monkeyho when I spoke to BOTH of them... both seemed nice too. Seemed like "deer in the headlights" ...so innocent...they didn't know what they got into!

Bullpoo!

Just an act my friend...just an act. NOBODY gets preggers after five months or whatever part time dating..especially with all the warning signs. Your WH may not want kids? Sounds like entrapment to me hon!

He has serious mental issues...as does my xh imho...my xh does ok for say...two years...and then he scheduledly flips out...going full out WS and crazy person. Then flips back into character long enough to pretend to his employees and his clients that its' not him that's the problem...it's the horrid, vicious, controlling, crazy woman he's living with!

Unless Your WS goes into complete NC...proves himself for six months free of Adultery ...and CHECKS HIMSELF INTO PLACE TO HELP CURE HIM OF INSTABILITIES AND ADDICTIONS...I would say sayanora baby.

That's the only way I'd reconsider ever reconciling with this man.

As for now. Protect yourself and your assets! Change locks. Do whatever it takes! Go dark.

He's made his bad...and a baby too...let him see how it feels to pay both spousal support AND child support!

WS HATE...DOING THINGS THAT DO NOT AFFECT THEMSELVES IN ANY WAY...AND PAYING MONEY OUT TO ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T MAKE THEM HAPPY OR FEEL GOOD IS ANOTHER DRUDGE FOR THE WS...

Oh..AND REMEMBER THIS ABOUT OW. OW LOOOOOOOVE MEN TO SPEND MONEY ON THEM...IT'S PART OF THEIR SLEAZY HANDBOOK. Part of their whole persona.

Slammed,

What a weekend you had. I am so sorry you had to go through this. I just cannot believe how your H is cheating, and lied to even his new GF!

Among all this, in a way, it was a great thing your H's GF called you. Now you know the truth, and the fact she is even scared of your H's behaviors tell your H really needs help. Don't worry about how furious he is. Just protect yourself. He can be mad as much as he wants. He has two women basically saying the same thing - that he has SA problems, he lies, he manipulates others, etc.

I know how hurt you are. I am going through the same thing, as you know. But we have to face it. Our H's have changed, and now they are not even worth our tears! They just use people around to get what they want. It is extremely sad, but we cannot change them. They have to realize how selfish they are themselves.

Please take care of yourself. We will go through this and make it together, okay?

Hugs,
Milk

slammed,
I am so sorry...what a mess! I have been reading your posts on milkshakes thread and I really was hoping that things were turning around for you...it seemed like your H wanted to have you in your life again...now you see his true motives! Please, go protect yourself financially. He is spending way too much, and even if he leaves OW he has a history of finding new G so the spending may not end just because it ends with OW. Even if he has his own credit card you could be liable since you are married and any debt incured by one party belongs to both...just as his income that he earns belong to both even though he is not at the house! Just be careful here.....I don't know the law in your state...but do protect yourself!

I was actually going to ask you something today on the other tread because it seemed that our situations were very similar (both H leaving without the presence of an A) but now it is more clear what your H has been up to! (I worry now that my H is also doing something fishy...and I just don't know about it)...

Hang in there slammed! At this point I really would be careful about what OW says...don't count on her too much!
You don't know her true motives! She might feel like she got herself into a pickle but that is not your concern!

I know you cannot change the locks, but what if your H forces himself back into your home! What if he decides to move back in? Have you thought about what you will do?

Take care today...{{{{{{slammed}}}}}}

Daisy

My husband, too, was a porn addict, with clinical depression, a recent disabling stroke, and a history of sexual addiction/adultery.

My understanding is that Plan A is a waste of time in such cases. Plan A is to show how YOU contributed to the marital climate that led to the affair. You didn't. These are all his over-the-top problems. So Plan A is merely enabling. It's buying him time.

Change locks, go dark, get legal advice. Plan B immediately. This is a "Tough Love" situation. You can send a PBL if it will make you feel better -- but again, these aren't your problems, and he will have to solve them on his own.

Prepare to bail. And fast.

Thanks to you all for your support and suggestions.
Yesterday was a very tough day, especially with so little
sleep and all the information from the OW dancing in my head. Thankfully, I kind of went into a "numb" mode to
make it through the day, and met a good friend for dinner, to whom I was able to tell the whole story.

After I got home, I got a call from WH. He asked what had
"gone on" with OW, and wanted to know what I had told her.
He asked why I felt the need to tell her a bunch of "dirt"
on him, and why I wanted to "ruin" their relationship ?
I got upset and started to cry, but told him SHE was the one who called me, and SHE was the one who asked questions,
not vice-versa. Reminded him that I have been leaving him
alone, not involved in his life anymore, and was not and
didn't want to be involved in his situation with OW.
(I believe I referred to her as his "******") Asked him if
he had thought even for a moment how it felt for me to get
this phone call. Asked if he thought for a moment how it
felt for me to find out even more lies and hurtful things
and to know this OW knows things about me, our life and our
M.
Then WH asked why I had told OW we had gone out to dinner
a couple of weeks ago. I said "because WE DID". He was
adamantly denying it, which was just amazing to me !
Suddenly I heard OW voice in the background and realized she was there and listening in on this call ! I immediately told WH I was not going to do this- sit there and talk to him, listen to him trying to get himself out of troule with OW, or be involved in their "games". OW then got on the phone and said "yes", she had been listening. That she had asked my WH to call me because she wanted to get to the bottom of the lies. (obviously he was denying what I had told her). I said "well, you are not going to get any truth out of WH". WH said he didn't see any purpose in this conversation and got off the phone, but OW stayed on and wanted to continue to talk.
Her biggest question and concern seemed to be whether or not WH had actually filed the D paperwork, and this was an
area I was trying to avoid discussing. I didn't really want her to know any more of our business, or give her fuel to use against my M. I also didn't want to remind H that he hasn't done this ! He is telling her that he filed "awhile back", but to the best of my knowledge he has not. Two weeks ago when I straight out asked him, he said he had not. I guess he could have done it just recently or even yesterday, but if she asks to see it, and it has a very recent date, I would think that would really backfire on him !
She seemed like she was trying to "make her case" to me
about what a good person she is, and kept saying she didn't
know what was going to happen with her and my WH- not
exactly what I needed to hear ! She also told me several times that she is not a "******" (she heard me say this to
WH in the early part of the conversation !) Then she asked me why I wanted to stay with WH or try to save my marriage if he had been dishonest and unfaithful ? I started to say, I love my H, we have 10 years of life together, etc. but then got very "leery" about talking to her any further or being too friendly because she is not my friend, and I'm not here to "help" her have a relationship with my H ! I asked her why SHE would want to have a relationship with a man who has been dishonest and started a relationship with her while still married ??? She said she had big questions and issues surrounding that ! (don't know what that meant).
We hung up and my head was spinning even more, but luckily
had a good friend call about that time, talked, and had a
good night's sleep.

Today I am still feeling tired and upset, but feel a little
better, but wish I had not told OW as much as I did about
WH, me, or our relationship. I feel much less sympathy towards her and much more anger.
WH called this morning to ask if we could talk later and I said "With or without your GF ???"
I guess in a way I would like to talk to WH in order to
"clear the air". I'd like to tell him how hurtful it is to
have your spouse's OW call, knowing details about me and our M. I'd like him to know how hurtful it is to know about more lies and the details of his life with OW. I'd like to
say that I want nothing to do with her, or their gross
relationship. Want WH to realize all this just takes away more of the love I have left for him and makes it less likely we could ever work things out, if even a chance of it. Don't know that any of this would even "register" with WH, but seems like I need to say it.
What does anyone think about it?

After that, I am thinking to just go very dark, and basically a Plan B as much as possible. Any thoughts ?
Slammed

My advice stands. Cut the cord. Call it "Plan B" if you like. He has too many of his own issues to make any kind of MB principles operational.

OW can pay for her own therapist.

Slammed,
Please, don't do this to yourself! Don't engage him. He is clearly in the fog, is trying to fix his relationship with OW, is not concerned about you, will not listen and feel any sympathy, shame, quilt for what he is doing....He is in 'JUSTIFY at any cost - and salvage the A' mode, nothing you say will matter!

It hurts, I know.

Just take care of you...don't talk to him. He will just hurt you more right now.

Don't talk to OW either...no matter what you told her, she wants to believe WS, that is why she was listening on the call and had him call you! She is also in 'saving the A' mode! She wants to believe him and save the R so that she can feel better about herself, nothing you say to her will matter....she has proven to be less understanding than you thought! She is the OW - through and through!!!

Hang in there slammed....hugs for you!

Daisy

It never does any good to talk to the OP. They twist the truth themselves. Let her sit in her own mess. Take care of you. Write the plan B letter. Make copies and everytime he shows up give him another copy. Just go very dark. It will be so much better for you.

Thanks A.M.
Sounds like your H had a very similiar background as my
WH as far as porn, depression, SA.
Don't know your story- can you let me know your current
situation and what you did with WH ?

I think you're right about "tough love"- that's probably
the best and about the only thing I can do right now.
Maybe instead of talking my basic "PBL", I'll do it in
written form before going dark.

I agree about OW- with only 3 months invested in the A,
knowing he's been dishonest, being such a "good" person
as she says she is, and supposedly a successful business-
woman who can support herself and "doesn't need a a man",
she should cut her losses now and get a therapist ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Slammed

I discovered this site later than I would have liked. We had a false recovery for a few weeks -- WH realized he'd made a mistake, was horrified, and tried to bail out of the A before the suction of his addictions pulled him back into it again.

My Plan A was not great -- I was still in shock from D-Days #1 and #2. It only lasted a few weeks. Events were unravelling too fast, on his side. Rather, HE was unravelling too fast. On the night I found him making exploratory phone calls about apartments -- and lying to me about it -- I threw him out. He was begging to stay. I told him then he had a choice. He said he didn't have the "will" to make the choice. I said then I had to have the will to throw him out, which I did.

He moved in almost directly with OW, a mentally unstable lesbian. That was two-and-a-half years ago. We had minimal contact after that. I sent a PBL six months later. He filed for D shortly a few months after. The D process has been strange and abusive. I finally blocked his email a few months ago. Should have done it much earlier.

The thing looks bad, though it is being enabled by a community. She sounds crazy every time she opens her mouth. Strange stuff is happening -- too wild and detailed to describe here. This isn't a "happy ending." Except maybe it will be for me, when I have fully restarted a new life and recovered from the economic damage.

Looking back on it, I can say that nothing I could have done would have made a difference. I'm glad I gave it my best shot. I'm even glad I sent a PBL, so long after he moved out. Sure, I could have behaved more perfectly -- but my score, I think, was pretty high, under the circumstances.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have cut the cord sooner and saved my time and energy. The problems were all on his side; they had to be fixed by him.

I would advise you to do the same.

May I add that I love him very, very deeply, all his problems notwithstanding. But I could no more "save" him from this then I could save him from a car accident. A car accident created by his drunk driving while I was out of town.

Think of it like a car accident. Don't crawl into the wreckage. It's sad, but not your doing.