My husband has been in contact with the OW again, it has been 8 months since there EA ended. She has since left her husband and I was worried this might happen once she became more "available." There have only been a couple of emails, and one phone call, all which she initiated, but he has responded to her. She talked about how hard it is right now, and how she still prays for him. He responded with the same.

Last night through a course of events I had his cell phone, and asked him about the phone call, since her cell phone number was still in there. At first he denied everything, and told me to go ahead and dial the number. I did, and her voice mail answered. So then he fessed up. When I asked him about emails, he said no. When he asked if I still checked his emails, I lied and said no. What a pair!

He does not know that I can still check his emails. Part of me wants to be honest with him, regardless of the consequences, because I am so tired of his lying and my covert actions. And even though I know it would set us back, that it might be our salvation if one of us starts to change in this area.

The other part of me is afraid that the consequences of the honesty will be that he will be done with me.

And then I try to justify it...that I need to know what is going on so that I can know what I am dealing with. I've known about the emails and phone call for a couple of weeks, so I am past the point of reacting hysterically. Maybe I should have not asked him even about the phone call...then we both could have gone on pretending??

As you can tell, I'm stressed and confused and tired. I am standing for my marriage, but am also overwhelmed with the constant rejection and my own behavior.

After our conversation last night he again told me he is done, that he does not care, that it is none of my business who he talks to. He does not love me, he does not hate me. He is indifferent. We had been to dinner earlier and he said he looked at me a few times and felt sad, because he felt nothing for me.

I was fairly calm but said so much I am sorry for, like reminding him that our boys would be ashamed of him, telling him to make a decision already, accusing her of having no conscience when she knows that she is considered the OW in our home. I also still said that I love him and I am forgiving him and that I'm still working on trust. I blew it.

He has been living in our guest room for three months, and I LBed for quite some time. But now I am really at a point of forgiveness and almost unconditional love, except for the trust thing obviously.

Well, this has been a long rambling thought, so thank you for reading if you got this far! I guess I should bring it back to my main concerns:

1) Should I stop snooping or do I have "every right to?"
2) Do I come clean and tell him the extent of my snooping and accept the consequences of my dishonesty.

Thank you for your time, and your prayers!

ME: 44
HIM: 47
EA for one year, ended 1/05
-11/05 resumed contact, but not at the same intensity (yet?)
Married: 24 years
Two teenage sons

dear suzieq...

blessing to you...
I know you are weary...


The other part of me is afraid that the consequences of the honesty will be that he will be done with me.

take some time....
and think about that statement...hold it in your hands...
write it down....and fold it up...then unfold it...50 times....
read it...
write it out over and over.....

spend time with that one thought...shut out the others....

look at the big picture of what you want out of a marriage...

you are not and never have been responsible for his choice to be dishonest and disrespectful.........

can you call the harleys...

ARK

I don't have any advice, but simply can share some of what happened in my sitch.

Wife had an online EA...I found the 'proof' of it by hacking her IM account and setting up logging on it.

She didn't try to turn it back on me by accusing me of snooping, which really surprised me.

Went through the end of the EA, and numerous attempts at NC. She went through the withdrawl, but still insisted that she should be allowed to keep contact with OM as 'just friends'. Of course I bought none of that, and insisted on NC. Every week she'd tell our MC that NC had started the week before, but then within a day or two of our MC session, one or the other would slip and resume contact. This went on for about a month. Then NC stayed in place for about two weeks, after which he sent a 'phishing' email to her, basically wanting to know if she was OK. She shared that email with me when she received it (mostly because I was right there with her when she got it). This was on a Monday night.

But...she did the whole 'still be friends' speech to me again. And things didn't feel right. Sooo....

I checked her email on Tuesday...I had told her in the past that I was going to be doing so, but hadn't brought it up since. When I opened her email, I found that she had 'accidentally' copied him on a funny webpage that she had broadcasted to a lot of people...and he'd replied.

I waited two days to see if she would admit to it...she knew I was upset about something, but I wanted her to tell me what was going on.

Finally, on Thursday morning we had a blow out. She kept asking me what was wrong...and I finally asked her point blank if she'd had ANY further contact with OM since Monday nite...she stopped for a few, and asked if I had been talking with her sister (who was visiting at the time...and who also very much supported our marriage, but was devoted to her sister too). I told her that I hadn't...so she then realized I'd seen her emails. She was FURIOUS!

I calmly reminded her that I had TOLD her I'd periodically be checking on things...she knew that. I reminded her of her promise to tell me about ALL contact...which she had violated. She then admitted to having sent a response to his email that I HADN'T seen...and then went downstairs and wrote a short NC letter to him, copying me, basically saying that I wouldn't agree to any contact between them, she really did want to fix our marriage and had to abide by the NC if she wanted to do so, and she didn't want to hurt me anymore.

Now...the final funnies. That following weekend was Father's Day...and she 'slipped' again and sent him an E-Card for Father's Day. I took that Monday off from work to spend time with her (it was also her b-day)...and could tell that something seemed 'off' that whole day.

That night, we lay in bed together and I asked her what was wrong...she quietly replied that nothing was wrong. I genly pushed the issue, and she broke down in tears. She told me that she'd slipped and sent an email to him, and that he'd replied back to her that he was honoring the NC agreement and politely asked that she not contact him again. And she was terrified that I was going to find out about it the next day when I looked through her emails.

I didn't LB that night for a change. I lay there for a while, and thought about it. I told her that I was VERY glad that she'd owned up to it without me having to find out about it on my own. That I loved her, and that she could trust me to tell me the truth even when it hurt me. She apologized and cried herself to sleep. And THAT was the LAST contact they had.

Funny thing is...I never did see the evidence of the e-card she'd sent. She would have gotten away with it...but since she owned up to it the whole thing turned out to be a positive influence between us than a negative.

Since then, she admitted to the NC that she knew I periodically checked up on her. But she realized that it wasn't that I expected to find anything...it was simply to reassure myself that all was well. And she was FINE with me checking up on her in any way that I wanted to.

My thoughts summed up:
Tell him that you're going to check up on him...that you're doing so for your OWN self assurance. When you find something (like the emails)...give him some time to come clean, and if he doesn't, confront him about it point blank.

The problem you're facing is that he's still in the fog. He still has the occasional contact with OW that is enough to keep him foggy. And that is what prevents him from 'seeing' his love for you.

the anatomy of this..

is you ask for the truth...

he initially lies...
then he confesses the truth
then he turns on you and spews he doesn't love feels nothing etc...all these so called heartfelt true emotion that in my opinion if they were true...would certainly need addressed....but he does not address or bring them up on his own...but does so only when caught in a lie...

and the most damaging and redflag thing about this post is your statements about your self skewed image of being wrong in snooping....

you need to snoop as your livelyhood of you and your children depend on it....

Do I come clean and tell him the extent of my snooping and accept the consequences of my dishonesty.

what consequence is there for you but the TRUTH ????

are you going to accept that if he does leave it's because YOU SNOOPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

can you call the harleys..
can you move to plan B...
do you believe in the mantra...be careful what you wish for.....?
I do...

ARK

I just went for a walk to figure out what I really want in marriage, as you suggested, Ark. I want honesty, intimacy, trust, love, sex, compassion, passion, care, shared faith, shared moments. My husband, and I, are capable of all these things if we will allow ourselves to heal from the terrible things we have done to each other.

If I tell him about the email, he will just change his password and then I have to be even more covert. If I continue to snoop, and then lie about it if he asks me, then I betray my values. If he decides to resume a relationship with her, and continue to lie to me about it, then that is his lack of integrity and honesty, not mine. I want to be able to live with myself in the long run.

I am thinking of writing him a letter that confesses anything I have lied to him about this past while. And if he wants to ask me something from 20 years ago, I'll tell him the truth about that too. I'll tell him how much I weigh and who I have shared our situation with and whether I've ever hid money on him (all things he has brought up). I know i take the risk of him moving out this evening, but maybe I also take the risk of starting our healing?

Or my mind just went to the fact that right now we have no relationship, and that I should wait until he is ready to reconcile to be completely honest? But then if I am then, it might destroy that reconcilation?

God, I really am confused! If someone wants to prayerfully talk to me more, I'm willing to listen!

Susie

suzie...
you need to approach this on the issue of the bigger picture...like you pictured...

when you approach him and tell him...and then you say...
darling I don't want to have to check your email...but I want to be married to someone and have someone be married to me that this is a non issue...

that you have nothing in any email that you would not share with me...nor would you blink an eye if you saw...

and that I offer you the same...

the issue is not the snooping on the email..the issue is that the emails of secrecy exist in the first place...and are totally against the goal of being an open book for eachother...and building eachother up at all times when together and when apart............

if he gets mad you snooped or even has the nerve to call it that....
if he changes his password...then you know that those are the actions of someone not interested in honesty in their relationship............

and the real consequance is YOUR decision SUZIE if that is tolerable or intolerable...acceptable or unacceptable...

tell your husband your goal is to be married to a man with no need for secret emails..........and if he is not a man interesteding in being an honest man..then you need to know that...for then you have some decisions to make......

suzie his contact with OW puts your children at risk for becoming a broken...not your quest for that knowledge to protect them and yourself....

if your home is under attack even if it is your husband that is attacking you are far better off knowing the enemy than not.....

do I think you have to tell him...

NOPE...but it depends on what your plan is...

are you in plan a since he is in contact
do you have an end date
are you two in counseling...or is the plan seperate bedrooms forever

are you planning to go to plan B...

ark

ARK ... when I read her 1st post the ONE sentence I was going to highlight and comment on was the one you also chose to highlight and comment on ....

ARK <>PEP TWINS SEPARATED AT BIRTH ???

I agree with Ark's assessment.

It was THIS kind of attitude that I got from my wife after the last NC was in place (that there was nothing wrong with looking, she encouraged it, she knew there was nothing to hide and nothing to hurt us in any of her contacts with anyone, that it would be a way for me to heal as I could SEE that things were better) that truly convinced me that we would/could make it. When my wife reached the point where she was not only accepting of my 'snooping', she was in favor of it knowing that it would reassure me (and it would help us both keep an eye on what our teenaged kids were doing on the computer as well), it showed.

That's why I think he's still in the fog...he's NOT remorseful, not willing to do what he needs to in order for your marriage to recover and improve. It's still all about HIM...not 'us'. And not recalling all of your situation, it does sound as though a plan B may be your only option soon.

suzie,

i am barely qualified to even post a reply, but i have to say that i agree wholeheartedly with ark and pep. it may be because complete and total honesty has been a way of life for me, sometimes to a fault in that I am not very tactfull about the truth, i just spit it out nad then have to deal with the consequences.

i cant really add anything, i think they pretty much covered all the bases. they are two of the best here IMHO.

Susie - you not only have a *right* to know what is going on in your own house and your own family and your own life, you have a *responsibility* to know these things.

How can you protect your family if you don't know what's going on?

Answer: You can't. Why do you think WS insist on keeping things secret?

It is not wrong to "snoop" into things that you have every right to know. If your WH insists on putting up walls to keep you out of your own life, you have a responsibility to tear them down in order to protect your family. And NO, you are not obligated to tell him.

It is not dishonest to get information about one's own life and one's own family, which is all you are doing.
Mulan

So if he asks me if I read his email, then I should not lie but answer yes? And if he changes his password again then I'll know he is still not ready for an honest relationship.

If I lie and answer no, then I guess I am seeing myself as just as bad. But I can certainly see that I don't have to offer information right now.

I appreciate your comments. If I do decide to give him my "complete" honesty letter then I'll let people know how it goes. I'm also going to wait until I can talk with my IC.

***If I lie and answer no, then I guess I am seeing myself as just as bad.***

So -- you really believe that a lie which serves to protect your family from an enemy trying to destroy it is *just as bad* as the lies of that same evil and destructive enemy?

Mulan (jes' askin')

Yes, I feel that you should tell him the truth if he asks about your reading his email...and if he changes his password then you should seriously consider your next steps. If he's still in the affair, then he's going to fight as hard as he can...and in that case, you need to either continue plan A or move to plan B. If he is NOT in the affair any longer, then he either needs to be willing to work on having an honest marriage with you, or you need to consider plan B/D. Make it clear to him that YOU are doing everything possible to rebuild your marriage. Remember that you cannot change him yourself...he's got to WANT to make that change, or it will never happen. So you either make it so that he's got he choice of change or a more dire consequence, or you decide that you no longer want to live in a marriage where you're NOT an equal partner.

He still sounds pretty foggy to me. Absolutely cake-eating...wanting to pick and choose what HE wants with no regard to long term consequences or how it impacts those around him.

Fact of the matter is that you are not in recovery. Your H is not in NC with the OW and has no evident desire for NC.

Read James Dobson's, 'Love Must Be Tough'.

I liked Ark's suggestions for how to handle this when you communicate this with your WH.

Your WH won't be able to reconnect with you until he is willing to have NC and be an open book. I believe he will need to have a repentant and remorseful attitude too. You are worthy of respect and honesty. You have a right to snoop, but how much more proof do you need that they are in contact and the A is still in their hearts and minds? He is still foggy...re. the comments made after dinner together.

You don't want to continue to live in fear. You know what kind of marriage you want and it is possible to achieve that. You may need to move to plan B. You shouldn't need to be a law enforcement officer in your marriage. I remember being accused of being a ball and chain and not allowing my FWH his privacy....we weren't in recovery at that point either.

People with nothing to hide...hide nothing. Don't forget that. You have a right to protect yourself from him...but what are you going to do with that knowledge...bury your head in the sand? Go into denial to keep the peace? That won't be recovery either.