Oh, it does matter!! P47D, the more people around her that look at her actions as wrong, makes her world that more uncomfortable. While she can blame you for things, how is she going to blame them for their opinions? eventually, she will see that if everyone believes one thing, and she believes another...it might be her that is wrong.

So the more people that say this to her the better. Now I would caution you that it might not happen with her family. Blood is thicker than mud. But, at the very least, her sister does know that she is lying to her. That will not go over well.

You are doing fine. As JL said, this is a process...a long process. Do not look for overnight fixes. That rarely happens.

In His arms.

Mortar:

URGENT!! Read your email! It is 5:45 and I am in need of some advice! I left my cell number on my email.

Basically, WW came home unexpectedly! This is not good either. She is only home to be with daughter, NOT to work anything out.

Daughter and her had huge fight and she refuses to have Wmom in home, but WW insists on staying and that it is her home too. Now my plan B has been shot! Not to mention Dobson's book is lying around in our bedroom and she will now get the jist of what I was trying to do. My plan has been seriously compromised!

On the surface it looks like I will have to live with a literal renter for the next 7 months while they have a 7 month lease! Now, how will that work?

What else can possibly happen?

p47d

P

Sounds like WW does not want to give up control and hopes to "repair" the conceived "damage" you did by exposing her betrayal to the kids. The fog can be soooo deceiving to the WW.

I know the last thing you wish to do is to put your children/daughter in the middle of this; however, your home is not going to continue to be a safe place for DD to reside. As a senior in high school perhaps a friend can take her in at least through the holidays. At least WW then is stuck dealing only with you and can choose to reconcile or leave as DD is in effect Plan B'ing her.

Other considerations. Disconnect the home phone and rely only on your cell phone. Turn off WW cell phone next month when the contract ends. She may stay but can not continue or resume contact on your dime. She will have to get a job and suffer consequences.

BTW, many BS's here wish their WS's would come home as it is easier to work on the marriage with them present. I know you still want to save your marriage so I hope you get the chance to do so. I am interested in the thoughts of others as I am no Plan B expert. Can Plan B be done with WW in the house?????

Good luck with the attorney tomorrow...I hope things have settled down by the time you read this and I hope you discover some unexpected opportunities to save your marriage. Keep your cool...act, don't react.

Mr. Wondering

P47D,

It appears that the people back home advised her of what you were doing, and at least some of them advised her to get back into that house before she loses out. Added to that, her kids are now against what she is doing...so like Mr. Wondering said, she is all about damage control.

The key is to see why she is there. If she is there when you get home, you ask if she is ready to live up to the Plan B letter. If she says no, then tell her that NC will continue. And then leave the room.

Do as Mr. Wondering said about the phones, about groceries, etc. She is a non-entity in the house. You can Plan B someone that is in the house...but it obviously is much harder to do.

Then you MUST go to the church and have her brought before the church. Adultery isnt the only thing she is guilty of. If she is not interested in livign as your wife (which includes SF, submission to your leadership, etc), then she can also be brought forward.

It may also be time to expand exposure of the affair to include the church as a whole and friends, etc i nthe area. dont do that yet...but you may have to.

I had to deal with this in a similar state of affairs. But let's see what she has to say first and what her plan is before taking the next step.

Just spend tonight finding out what is going on. Come back here and we'll come up with the gameplan.

This is just a change in the layout of the battlefield. we just have to change the tactics to meet that change.

Relax. Remember, the lord is in charge here and has your back. just remain calm and proceed forward.

In His arms.

If this was not WWIII then I do not what to ever see the real WWIII.

Got home at 9:30. WW was literally at the door waiting. Jumped on me immediately and the triad began as she railed or should I say yelled about my lack of respect, my telling the kids without her "permission" and using them against her, seeing that they now do not want to talk to her.

She says that they owe her a chance to hear her out, i.e. her side of the story. They never said they did not want to hear her side, it's just that at this time, they are to hurt and don't or didn't want to talk with her.

Fog and more fog. On and on she went about my cruelty and that I have turned the kids against her. She railed on each kid because they showed her, in her opinion no respect by saying that they would not accept her behavior and really didn't want anything to do with her. My son just minutes before told her, that if her plans were not to restore, he did not want to talk or see her again. She was revolted that he had the nerve to disrespect her in that way and of course blammed me.

She was in my face pretty good, and all I could say is keep cool and ask her what her desired will was and if that has changed? She kept on reiterating that it was just words when she said she would leave and she actually said because she was still there, it showed she had not left. Huh? What? Fog! I said, it is November, not June. You are still here because it is not June! Does it get any more foggy?

Daughter comes home and then sits in on the dialogue. I figure I need a witness. WW is all over her and me about showing lack of respect and she is not being treated in love or being shown any compassion. Daughter keeps asking her what her intent is. WW is non committal and I keep saying that you have said repeatedly that you are leaving no matter what.

This goes on and on and on. I am getting bored. Circular reasoning at its best. WW then explained to daughter all the stuff I have done to her over the years to cause this. I waited until she was dead or in love with another man before I would change, blah blah. We contintued to ask the central question of when is it O.K. to have an affair. Finally WW yells out that it is never O.K. So, case closed? No, no, excuses excuses.

Then her family is brought in and I am told how upset they are at me for telling the kids and that they think I'm a real jerk. You see they would never tell me that, but that is what they are saying behind my back she says. My simple response is that I expected no less seeing that they are your family. I love them all and they have been kind to me over the years. Of course she does not know I have been in contact with several family members and they have told me I had no other choice and they support me. Oh well, WW seems to be lying about that too. I let it drop. Fog time again.

At one point, she got so upset that she kicked me. Not hard but I was sitting and she was standing yelling and came over and kicked my leg. My daughter saw the whole thing and when I said to my daughter did you see that, my WW just laughed and smirked.

The height of the night came when WW said tomorrow we would all go down to the lawyers office and file for a D because it can be done and over with in 3 months. She stomped her feet all over the place saying that this is what "we" were going to do. You see, we all are saying she is committing adultery so why not make it official? I said if you want to file, that is your business, but I will not file. It will be you, not me. Besides, I said, won't that look strange for the WW to file for D on the basis of her own adultery? I was thinking, talk about slitting your own throat? She was totally off the wall now and I feared she would start throwing stuff.

I finally ended this mess and said I am going to bed. Do what you want. She talked about separation and I said fine, do what you want. My daughters plane ticket is still available and she asked my daughter if she didn't want to still go home for T'day to visit relatives. WW and I could stay behind to argue I guess. Daughter would not commit, but I also said that I wanted to be with daughter and son for T'day and it would be best if she took the ticket and went home and thus start our official separation.

I also talked about my daughter and me going to see my son and celebrate while she sat in the house by herself! Ohh, that ain't gonna work she says, so she might as well use the ticket to go home.

This morning, she trys being all nice and I totally ignor her. Didn't say a word since I told her last night that the letter was still in effect and that I didn't want to talk with her seeing that it is to painful.

Anyway, we will see today. I am trying to get some clarification from a lawyer today on exactly what I am and am not able to legally do. Right now, I really think my WW needs some psychological help. I am getting worried about her mental state. It was downright scarry last night and believe me, I am not a little guy. I run 220 and 6 foot tall and I'm not afraid my W will hurt me, but she sure has the potential to start wailing away.

Anyway, this is much more than a mess. I am not totally bummed out, but I do know my plan B has been compromised at this point. Best thing possibly to do now is encourage her to separate this weekend and then at least I can really go back to NC! Then too if any C with the OM occurs, it is lights out for adultery. I'm sure her family advised her to get home sensing that if it goes to court, she will look pretty bad in this. My pastor had the same feelings.

Funny too that the W was trying to use our Pastor against me in saying that he did not agree with telling the kids. I said so what? It is my decision and I told him I was going to do it. Besides, why is his opinion so important now seeing that you have not followed any of his advice before? You know dear, like repenting? Ouch...

p47d

Of course it is WWIII. What did you expect? I would be worried if it wasnt WWIII. Why? Because after you going to Plan B and telling the kids, if she didnt care, she would still be in Mass. But instead, she has been hit hard with a bright beacon of light in the middle of the fog. The consequences have now started coming home to roost. it is painful to be in the dark so long and to have that kind of light pierce into it. With pain, comes anger. So, this is as would be expected from a WW that still deep down, has not let go of her marriage yet.

Neither you nor your kids have to respect her behavior nor her immoral decisions. While the kids cannot disrespect her (by calling her names, etc), they are certainly okay in saying that their mother's behavior is not right and that they will not support her in that behavior. So, if she means that you guys are not showing respect to her behavior, then that is exactly what is called for here.

Your kids have been raised well by the both of you. You should be proud! even with her "side" of the story, I am sure your kids would come to the same conclusion. It does not matter why she is in adultery...only that she is. It does not matter why she is not submitted to her husband...only that she is in rebellion. All of the rest is just excuses, and your kids see that. Good for them and good for you (and your wife) for raising them so well!

Back to the respect thing. Hey Mrs. P47...if you would change your behavior to something they could respect, then I am sure they would respect it.

Nope...pretty foggy. She is doign a huge tap dance trying to make this all work. But guess what? She is so wrong that no matter what she comes up with, it just sounds crazy to everyone...even herself now. And now she cant even fool herself because everyone around her is saying she is wrong. Make sure you keep reiterating to your kids about what the Bible says about her disobedience. As a matter of fact, since your kids are older, this would be a great time to teach them about marriage, affairs, what brings romantic love...all of the Harley stuff. Let them understand why things got this way...and the fact that they can and most often do change. Let them read His Needs, Her Needs. Surviving an Affair. This will be a great teaching point for you so they can understand what is going on and what you are trying to accomplish. Added to that, they will learn to see what is required in their own marriages and what things to avoid. So, turn this into a positive by helping your kids understand what all of this is about and how a good marriage can be built and sustained!

I love the fact that not only do you keep staying on message (and not diverted by your wife's tirades) but also your kids are staying on message. Beautiful! Keep blasting the light into the fog. And your kids should to. Do not be drawn into arguments that dont really matter. It doesnt matter what you did in the past...it only matters if your wife is going to bend her knee to Christ. Make sure your kids understand that (it appears they already do!). Stay on message!

She cannot hide from the truth! All three of you should keep this up!

Or maybe not. Maybe they jsut told you they were in your corner and then went back and got your wife all spun up. When I had finally gone back to my wife's hometown this last year (my FIL had died), I finally got to see all of her family for the first time since the affair. So, I am there and many in her family came to me and asked "So what happened? You can tell me. I just want to be able to help you guys." So, I told them what happened, sicne they were family and said they wanted to help. But guess what happened? They went back to my wife and said I was talking trash about her. My wife was POed. So, I just want you to understand that they may be in your corner or they may not. Just dont count on them.

Happened to me also, on three different occasions where my wife hit me. She had never laid a hand on me our entire marriage. It goes to show you just how entrenched they are in the fog and how much pain they are in. It is good you have a witness. Unfortunately it isnt good for the kids to see this (my kids saw two of the three instances). Just understand while it isnt right, this does happen a lot in these circumstances.

As I have said before, this stuff would be gut-wrenching funny if it wasnt so serious! She is flailing around, trying to get back into the darkness of the fog where she felt comfortable. Too late!! She will never have the fog again. As long as she stays there, she will continue to increase her pain and discomfort.

Beautiful!! Your Plan B is still in effect. Sure you gusy talked last night...was unavoidable. But now you know the lay of the land and how this will flush out. Why not take the daughter and go visit yoru son for T-Day? Just do it. Keep on with your Plan B, even if she is in the house. When she comes to you screaming and saying she wants a divorce or whatever, just hand her another copy of the PBL. While she will be angry and probably rip it up, she will still remember that in it is a path back home. By giving it to her, she will be reminded of that.

Excellent! Again, I would leave another copy of the PBL for her on the bed or something, letting her know what the conditions are.

I didnt worry about my wife hurting me either, since I am a combat infantry first sergeant. She pretty much has little chance of hurting me unless she does it in my sleep or uses a firearm. But I think the psychological pain you see her in is a battle inside of her between the Holy Spirit and Satan. This is a battle for her soul. It is maddening to have that go on inside of you. Just keep praying (get those prayer chains going for her) and you keep calling on Satan to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. This is spiritual warfare. Your wife is the battleground. Satan cannot win against Jesus. But it will require your wife calling on Him. So, keep telling the truth, keep praying. You are winning the war, although battle is fierce right now.

Your Plan B is fine!! Just proceed forward. Man, I so love Plan B!!! WSs hate when they lose control. And Plan B becomes the loss of control for the WS and the gaining of control by the BS. Awesome!

Ouch is right! Keep telling the truth. When she spews Satan's lies, you fight back with the truth. Satan cannot stand in the presence of God. He also cannot battle the truth. As soon as the truth is know, Satan is done.

You may think this is a setback. I look at this as the first battle in the war. it is like you have been sitting in Kuwait, trying to talk Saddam to do right. Eventually time runs out. Well, Friday was the day you launched your offensive. Do you really think that Satan would just let you march on Baghdad without a shot fired? Come on. While the war has already been won by Jesus, there still has to be the battles to get to Baghdad. So, fight them. Remember, you are a soldier...you arent the general. Let God worry about the gameplan...you just follow orders and keep moving.

In His arms.

amen ~!~

thanks for all the insight.. I still believe I am doing the right thing even though it is painful.

So, the WW calls my desk. I see the caller ID and don't pick up but let it go to voicemail.

Can you believe that she called about wanting to know if I wanted her to get the car looked into because the alternator belt was squeaky? She wanted me to call her back and let her "know". Not a single word about anything else, just that she wanted to know if I wanted her to look into getting the car fixed!

I know this is serious stuff, but this is way to amusing. Note, I'm not making fun of my W, but after 4 hours of screaming, yelling, jumping up and down, she is wanting to know if she should get the car fixed.

Ahh, is that on the way to the lawyers to file for a D or afterwards?

And just would luck have it, my phone is ringing again! Must be about groceries now.

I will print out the letter again, and leave it out. I am going to push or suggest she go home with my daughters ticket and leave us alone for T'day.

p47d

imagine how confusing it must be inside her head! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

P47,

Dont push anything. Dont look like you forced her out. She will not be able to handle all of this pain and she will make her move on her own. One way or the other.

It is amusing to watch a WS flail around.

Remember, she will try ANYTHING to try to break your Plan B. From yelling, to even offering you SF. Do not let her do it. Stay dark and stay on message.

In His arms.

Well, because of an unused ticket that was meant for my daughter, she might try and use that to go home and thus start the official separation.

As of early this PM having spoken with my daughter, she knows she will be used as a pawn back there and she is afraid that the homies will gang up on her and tell her what rotten child she is for acting like this to her mother. At this moment, she does not want to go and really wants to have T'day with her brother and me.

Hopefully the W will want to leave because she is not invited at this moment.

Also, caught in another couple of lies, so what else is new. She totally distorted my pastors position on telling the kids. She said he was totally against in and he told me today no such thing. He in fact was neutral on the subject but said he would support my decision which means that he would be there to help with my kids after they were told. WW basically said he told her that I was totally off and disagreed with the whole thing.. The lies continue.

SIL phoned and we had a nice chat. Told her WW told me in from of D, that the whole family thought I was a jerk and hated me for telling the kids. Wrong-O. She said that was totally off and that I have support from a number of family members including her and WW brother. She could not believe that WW is saying this stuff. I merely told her I was not surprised and it really didn't matter whether I had support from them or not. They are not married to her, I am. But they should at least hear me out.

So, the lies continue. I wonder what tonight will be like? She's called about 5 times today, left one message. I haven't returned a call, but I hate the thought of going home to this mess again.

I just have to rem. that it is always darkest before the dawn.

p47d

p.s. on another note, ordered book "surviving.. affair" and it is supposed to come Thursday or Friday. I wonder if she will open my mail and see the book? I was plannig on getting one of her close friends to give her the book and say it was from them and that they wished she would read it. Personally, I'd like to read it first, but after last night, Dobson's book has become the latest MIA! Wonder where that went? Oh, she got rid of the love card too...but the local card shop has plenty more, so I'll just have to pick up another one soon!

Mortarman, MrWonderings, Pepperband,

Latest update after last night Wednesday.

THE FOG HAS LIFTED!!

Picked up my D from school and went home. W met me and said hello and I ignored her as per plan B. Went into bedroom and she follows and closes the door. Said we have to talk. I think Oh, boy, now what. After 4 hours of her shouting and screaming last night, what now.

She says, didn't you get my messages? I said no, my cell doesn't always get good reception in my place of work. She says I left you 5 messages! I though yea, so, what's the big deal.

So, I listen to the messages and there they are. The W has finally woke up! Said she wants to work things out etc. Says she was wrong and is willing to go the distance this time around.

I can't believe my ears! W is breaking down on the messages and saying how she really wants to work things out.

O.K. I leary here, but I'm not going to snuff out a smoldering ember though so we begin to talk. I listen to her confession and then I lay out some of the things that must happen.

Firstly, NC with OM, and that means never. She can never have NC with OM again for any reason. She agrees and says she knows that and is willing to let him go this time. Secondly, a clear plan i.e. roadmap on conseling that will restore our M. She agrees and says she tried to call me today to get the phone number of MC #2 and that she wants to see him ASAP. She said she would have see him yesterday if she had the phone number. Also, counseling will restart with our Pastor, and she agreed to that.

Thirdly, no more trips "home" to work or play with her friends and family unless we go as a family. He was working for her friend (OM's relative) on and off and I said this has to stop. So, no more working trips back home and visiting will be done as a couple only. She agrees and said she knew I would ask that.

Lastly for now, is curtailing her relationship with her best friend. I said it is not healthy and seeing that she is related to the OM, she could let information slip about OM and this could start things going again. She also acknowledged that their relationship was not healthy. I had said that because they were so close, her friend was short changing her own marriage and relationship with her husband and children. W agreed that that was indeed happening. So, contact with her best friend will no totally be cut off, but it will be severely curtailed.

How the fog cleared?

Mystery to me. She did say that after her 4 hour rate and rave that something came over her and it was like a bell going off in her head and it was at that time that she realized her family and I were more important. She did not want to spend the rest of her life trying to rebuild her relationship with her children and she did not want to hurt me. I can't deny that God did not play a huge role in this and that her relationship with Him was the key ingredient. She knew what was right all along but simply could not make the right choice. Me telling the children and having them hold her feet to the fire certainly brought the pot to a boil. This was the real kicker for her hearing her kids challenge her own belief system and hearing them be willing to leave her for her vices.

Now, in no way do I feel this is over. The real work is just beginning. I am also very leary of false recoveries and withdrawl. She admits that she is scared and that she is not sure we will be able to handle her (mood swings etc.). So, we both know that it is going to be rough going, but in the end, she is willing to really try, really go NC with OM, and more importantly, wants to see it work.

I believe her at this moment, but I also know it won't be easy, but that is all I asked in the beginning that she would be willing to work through all our problems with the intent of restoration. She is still a bit foggy and says she still blames me for "a lot" of what happened (note, I am not to blame for the whole thing as I once was), and is still upset at my son for just throwing her off after only 4 days, but I believe as more fog clears and is finally gone for good, she will begin to see that her children did love her and that was the only way they could get her attention.

Still, I am cautious and like I said, careful not to snuff out any burning embers at this point. The counseling should undercover these deep rooted issues and over time, I think she will see that all this was done for her best interest.

She did say that one thing I said that other night during her release of 30 years of frustration was that my insistence that I loved her. When she was trying to sleep that night, that is the one thing she said that stuck out was that after all this, I still loved her and she thought how can that be, and he must really, truely love me.

Anyway, we are at least headed in the right direction! And, she is willing to talk with Steve Harley now too. So, you want to talk about timing? Today or tomorrow in the mail I should be getting the book Surviving an Affair. Told her it was coming, so maybe we can now read it together!

I am thankful and rejoicing today. Many thanks go out to all those in here who have listened and supported my plight over the last 3 months. My heart goes out though to those that are stuck with little or no hope. At least my W has seen the light and is willing to work for a better M. And for now, at least I have a happy ending or should I say, a new beginning. We will start from scratch. I told her the Titanic is sitting on the bottom of the ocean and it cannot go any lower, it can only go up. I believe our M had hit bottom and now it can only go up.

So, there is no need for silent running any longer and it's time to blow the tanks and surface for some fresh air!

I'll still stick around because I know the road will be long and tough and this process might never end, so I'll probably need more advice and encouragement as time goes on.

Anyway, it's time to PARTY!

p47d

First off...praise the Lord! For it was Jesus that kept on her, that wouldnt let her go. It was the Holy Spirit that hunted her down and wouldnt give her peace until she got back on her knees. Never forget this P47! Never forget this.

Now, I have to give one more shout out...and that is the fact that I LOVE Plan B!! Of course, Plan B doesnt work without a good Plan A. Which includes exposure. P47, your situation included all of this.

Now to you. Yes, you have said that you recognize that things could fall back. My wife had two false recoveries before this one took, so dont let down your guard. it will be a balancing act, because while keeping your eyes open, you will still need to allow your wife to earn your trust back.

I am glad you guys are getting to the MCs first! Recovery is not for amateurs. And it is good that you are going to Steve. He will develop a plan for both of you, and a plan is what you need. Especially in the rough times ahead (and there will be some...you guys have some things to work through). The plan Steve gave us over two years ago is still in effect and helps tremendously in the down times.

Get your wife to pray with you daily. This is HUGE! If you two can take each day to Jesus, you will start the day off centered.

Limit all relationship talk. I mean have boundaries, both time and content. Time boundaries are "okay, we are going to talk about this but only for one hour. At the end of the hour, we are done for the day." Content boundaries include when things are just two caustic to talk about, save those for counseling.

This is great. Take it one day at a time. You arent out of the woods yet. Recovery usually lasts two to 4 times longer than the affair...once it is truly over and withdrawal has ended.

Good luck and Godspeed for your family. Your children should be happy, and I am sure they are very proud of you for standing up for their family.

In His arms.

Well, talk about withdrawl?

It has started already! Got a call from W just a few minutes ago. She is distraught and wonders if he did not jump the gun! Panic has set in big time!

She is upset and now is thinking about going back home for T'day. As she said, her emotions are swinging back and forth so much, she is confused now and still mad at a lot of things that were said and not said.

She says the planning is all good, but she is worried about failing and not sure if she wants to go through with it!

So, persecution is strongest after a victory and here we go!

Not even 24 hours later and she is already talking like she made a mistake in agreeing to patch things up. Talking about all the things she left back home pertaining to clothing and such and now is wondering if she doesn't need to return and separate!

This is tough to take for me. I know there will be swings in mood and everything, but it is just so difficult going one day to the next not knowing what her intentions are.

As I suspected but really didn't want to believe, this whole thing basically made her panic and forced her into making a decision that is now apparent she's not sure she can live with. Yep, patch it up with the kids and now turn back.

Little does she know, that she will do more harm to the kids by doing this type of thing than if she merely left for good. This will kill my kids for the second time. They will never trust her again if she turns tail and runs.

And my day started off so good....

p47d

my suggestion..

set a boundary for yourself..

no more four hour tyrades...
there was no point to it..
nothing gets resolved
and irrational statements unfold over irrational statements..

things are said that are said just to hurt....

four hour tirades serve no one
not your wife
not you
not your daughter..

next time it even begins..
leave

set the boundary within yourself
and follow through...

in the end it leaves everyone exhausted ashamed and diverts energy and focus from the real issue and actions needed at this time..

ARK

ready for the truth?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

recovery is MUCH more difficult than Plan A or Plan B

.
.
.
.
.
.
.

but so what?

Got to get thru withdrawal to get to recovery. Counseling plus time will do it. Let her read SAA and talk to her about withdrawal. Tell her this is normal and her feelings will be like this, no matter which way she goes. She is goign to have to go thru withdrawal from you or from OM.

Print out the section on here about withdrawal...
Withdrawal and ending the affair

Let her see that there is a plan. Get both of you to talk to Steve Harley ASAP! Your wife is lost and doesnt know how to deal with this. Steve can give her a plan she can hold onto thru the rough times.

This is tough, and you will have to do ALL of the heavy lifting. Get with it ASAP!

In His arms.

100% agree with Arkie's boundaries ... NO tirades ...

Pep,

Triades are over. She was in tears this morning calling me and is def in withdrawl. Since we live 1000 miles from her fam and enablement and she has no friends here, it is easy to WANT to return home where all the warm and fuzzies are.

I realize this. We met for lunch and she was very mad of course and still blames me for quite a bit. She blames me for using the children from my own selfish purposes. Doesn't see it yet as saving OUR marriage, but possibly in time, she will.

Another gotcha is her fam. Backstabbers! Even the ones that were and are on my side have now spilled the beans to our PRIVVATE conversations I had with them and how untruthful W had been with them. They are now telling W that I said this and that. These are committed christians too and we will have a discussion soon on that matter of trust. I am done with them as far as this issue goes. Then again, it is my own fault because I actually thought they might see my side of things.

Still, W sees me as being totally wrong with telling the children only one side of the story! Wow! Her excuse or reasoning is it is just not about the OM.

You know, I used to love to ride rollercoasters, but now I'm not so sure. Anyway, she is scheduled to talk with our MC tonight at 6:00. It seems that if she can vent and talk to the "right" people she is fine. It's when she goes back to the rotten meat that she begins to drift.

I'm hanging in there.

p47d

I was listening to Dr. Harley's radio program last week and he discussed the 15 hours per week of time spent together. He said based upon his studies and experiences he has concluded that only the time together is important...what you say or do with each other during that time is irrelevant.

When in withdrawal just commit to each other to spend time together. Sit in the same room and read. Go to dinner. Talking about the relationship is not necessary. It is certain that recovery does not truly begin until withdrawal is surpassed. So hold at bay your male tendency to fix things overnight. Like Plan B, recovery is a process.

She has seen your lighthouse beacon (your continued Love in the depths of your heated argument the other night) but she is in a row boat a long ways away without a paddle. She has concluded the direction of the lighthouse is the way she intends to go...she just has to figure out how to get there. The fog will still set in from time to time and storms will rise up from no where...she may yet lose her way. Keep your beacon bright, encourage her when appropriate and avoid her when she is down...keep the waters calm so she can find her way home.

I wish you continued success.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.-She can call my wife again if she wants...it may be a much more productive conversation this time. Mrs. Wondering's last cell phone digits are 89 instead of my 88.