So when is your KFC date?

Friday night....I have a bit of an update....but need to get some work done this morning.....will have one by noon!!

Thanks, CC!
MWIL

Update:

Last night went over to WW's and had pizza and watched Titanic....(the melody by Celine Dion was what W walked down the isle to) Night before, WW helped her GF paint, and WW's back was bothering her.....so I gave her a "nice" full back massage...with her shirt off!!! (She left her bra on....kids were upstairs playing with toys) She was obviously enjoying it very much with lots of "Oh my Gods" when I hit a spot that was really bothering her.

It was a very nice evening. Then, as I was about to leave, her phone rings....it was upstairs and my DD6 answered it. It was OM....and my daughter says "Mommy....it's <OM>" and she adds "Daddy, It's <OM>...I always answer when I see his name on the caller ID" Of course OM most likely heard that while DD6 was bringing the phone to WW. WW just put her head down, took the phone and said: "I need to call you back" I just said, "hey I'll talk to you later" WW was obviously somewhat embarassed and kinda sad...just uncomfortable with that situation.

I stopped by a local pub on the way home to play a few games of pool.

I got home around 10:30 and saw that WW had called at 9:30 and again at 10:10. She left no message. I didn't call her back.

Well this morning I called and asked her if she needed something last night....and she said "Oh I forgot why I called." (Yeah....OK!) But she did ask in an excited way..."So what time are you picking me up on Friday night?"

I answered her, then told her I was running late...and had to go.

And now, this email from WW:

"Hope you are having a good morning. I am looking forward to tomorrow night. I just wanted you to know. I feel a real sense of peace lately. Finally."

OK...how should I respond????? And what do you folks think is happening with her???? Please comments!!!

Thanks!!
MWIL

What's happening is that one side of the fence is looking better than the other. But, she is still on the fence, afraid that the fall will hurt too much so she stays on it...and teh longer you allow that to keep happening there is no real reason to for her to make the leap.

I am also concerned with some of the scenarios you're describing....knowing that she called while you were out allows her "imagination to run wild"...which is why you did not call her back...and that, to me (and in MY humble opinion) is a passive aggressive game playing move....don't fall into that trap MWIL...it will come back to bite you....

You need to get out a 2x4 and knock her off the fence....

MWIL,
Your plan A is working well and you are making lots of ++++deposits in her love bank...BUT...she is still in contact. You may need to turn to plan B at some point.

For the time being I wouldn't respond to the email she sent. Let her wonder a little....work for your attention alittle.

I think you are moving in the right direction (way better then a couple months ago) but she is still on that fence eating cake.

The reason I didn't call her back last night was because it was late...and frankly, I was tired and didn't feel much like talking to her. I did call this morning to see if she "needed" something. I was in no way playing games.

So, SMOMW, do think it is impossible to reconcile without her going through a "crisis"? Is it not possible for her to come off the fence, on her own, based on her recognizing that she made a BIG mistake??? Of course at the first signs of her declaring that she WANTS "us" together....boundary #1 will be NC for life. OF COURSE!!!

Thanks as always for your imput!!!!

CC, I give a little, then, back off....give a little and then back off....it seems to keep our "stress level" low, and she "looks forward" to seeing me. I am able to meet a few more needs at every different interation with her. She is letting me become a bit more intimate with her (taking her shirt off for a massage!!) That, I would have thought 4 months ago, would have only been a dream!!

We talk and LISTEN to each other so much better now!! Just like when we first met!!! I am strong right now...and the first thing I learned on these boards is PATIENCE!!!

I was really hit by the "I feel at peace...finally" comment, coupled with the "I'm looking forward to tomorrow night" statement. That was impossible 5 months ago!!!!

Hi Mywifeilove,

It sounds like your ws was enjoying her evening with you, (great), and when OM called, she was worried that you would be upset with her, thus the dropping of crumbs (aka, Phone call, promising words).

She doesn't want to give up the OM but doesn't want to burn her bridges with you.

Keep up the good job of building the lovebank back up.

More email:

WW: "I told <OM> a while ago there may be a chance at this point for me to put my family back together, George. We are kind of back to where we were a year ago only I feel much differently now about MY life. I still feel a need to council etc, but I am getting past that. There are days that go by now I don't talk to him at all. I think that helps my stress level. I just fell guilt all around and thats something that I feel better about. Maybe because I was more honest with him than I was with you."


I have no clue on this one!!!!! More comments please!!

That crisis is that 2x 4 I mentioned...frankly I do not know how you do it....I'll share something I never shared on these boards....XW and I had literally just decided to make it a try very early in the AM (like the same day) and she had asked me to stop by her house after I took care of some photography responsibilities I had. I arrived at about 12:30 AM (ok it was next day but it was still less than 24 hours)...as I exited my truck I noticed her om co worker's car drive by (he lived 30 miles away)...phone was ringing within minutes and all I hear from her is "why are you calling me I told you a month ago that I could not do this, don't ...I have to go...long story short guy called back 5 x...and I was very calm about it except I begged her to let me take care of it...I established boundary right then...the phone calls, teh contact were to be over...as I had made a phone call to my gf that morning ending it (and this was very abrubt on my end)....and that I would not tolerate anything less.....and you need to get here quick


cause I think you're condoning it by not bringing it up....now...and I think it is long over due for the crisis...

I will say that I would not have stuck around for the crisis...at some point you have to go "all in"...both of you....

Some more email exchanges:

Me: (response to above email)

"BTW, it was nice to give you a massage last night...I hope you enjoyed it!! It's weird how different it feels to just "touch you" now, as opposed to the last few years......boy have I taken YOU for granted in every sense. You were there for me to cherish.....and yet I felt that you never wanted that from me....but I should have insisted....."

WW: "I wanted it, but I got used to not having it like you got used to not giving it to me...... We both neglected emotional needs that the other had. I am learning to live with the way I handled it - that it was wrong and a huge mistake. I have quit spending so much time kicking myself. I migrated to <OM> to numb those feeling that I had for myself. I have come to terms with a lot of things lately and it really does feel good.

HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More emails:

Me: "And, IMO, you not "kicking" yourself anymore, is really you forgiving yourself...much as I have forgiven myself for many of my actions prior to the A and after."

WW: "so, would you ever consider moving?"

Me: "...would you ever consider NEVER speaking, emailing, or talking to him again?? The moving thing, and any other issues could certainly be discussed and with my new found understanding of listening to you (in other words...being more "in tune" with you). But, I think you would agree that it would be way, way too much pain for me to grow a new relationship with you, and have him as someone who "means" something to you...enough to want to check on him."

WW: "As hard as it is for me to think about it - because I do care for him, I have come to the conclusion that I have to close that door to move on. I am coming to terms with the whole "never" realization. Its not easy because I DO care about him. But he has come to be a part of my life that I really do not look fondlyback upon. And I miss my family and my life - and you. I am just wondering about a fresh start. Honestly George - and this is looking a bit far ahead right now I am sure, but I get the same pit in my stomach thinking about <OM> as I do when I think about moving back into the house."

Comments please!!!!! Time to set some boundaries....or maybe we'll see after our "date" on Friday night.

Too early to set boundaries. She is just feeling you out. Gently point to your boundaries, but do not press them yet.

Moreover, although it looks good, you should not expect too much at this point. I am with Sendme on this and am very skeptical that ww will give up OM soon until and unless she is given some real motivations to change.

Lastly from a seduction POV, you should act nonchalant about this. You should not be seemingly jumping up and down every time she takes a positive step towards you. You should not appear that easy, although I know you are dying inside to hug her and tell her every thing will ok. Like it was written to you earlier in that excerpt I sent you, you have to be in control of this dance, not her.

Things are looking very good for you, though. I'll send a prayer to the BIG GUY for you.

Take a deep breath. It sounds wonderful. I would bet she is thinking of you way more often then she is thinking of him. And when she does think of him its not warm and fuzzy. This is a very good thing.

She knows you want her to stop contact w/ OM. It has to be her decision to do it.

You are doing great. Go on your date...relax...enjoy...flirt. If SHE brings up relationship talk>>> tell her you are surprised about how much you learning about her, appreciating her and the prospect of further discovery is exciting. But until she has stopped contact w/OM you can't go there.

No comments...you are really tackling and upholding your boundaries well. You are keeping a watchful eye on the love you have left for her...keep one eye on the gauges...
It looks lik eyou are doing everything right, right now.

If there is one thing I would change, it is...hold back telling her about herself unless she asks specifically (and people rarely do). You can tell her how things she does makes YOU feel, but don't tell her what she is doing or her intentions or what's underneath...she knows, or doesn't but it is disrespectful to tell her what she is doing from your perspective...

That doesn't mean you can't tell her what she is doing is hurtful and wrong...but be clear this is hurtful and wrong to YOU, and the KIDS. Hold back your judgements about her activities. And I'm talking about the little things, not the big things. Was DJ an LB you engaged in often before? (Why do I ask, because it's my HUGE one...)

Good luck!! You are on the right track!!!

Slow down...slow down. You jump on her at this point and she'll run scared!


This is where she is. She aint ready to come off the fence yet. She is thinking about it, which is good. But she aint ready.

So, what is going to be your next step? UVA is right...if you push too hard, she will run. So, guess what?

Back off some. I dont mean be passive aggressive. I mean dont go overboard, dont push. I also mean make sure you have things to do...things that you are looking to do that dont include her.

As long as you are in a holding pattern, she will stay on the fence. So, stop the pattern. Change things. Change how you dress. Go to the gym. Get a tan. Go to the beach for the weekend. Start racking these up.

They arent to push her back to you. You see, the fence is not so much pushing..as pulling. She is on the fence and you and OM are pulling. But when one of you backs off, she is pulled in the other direction. So she coems after the one who is backing off. If you push while the OM is pulling, she will just end up on his side. So, what do you do?

I believe you have been in Plan A long enough...kept her on the fence long enough, that she now knows the stakes (as has been evidenced by her statements lately and her tiem spent with you). So, it may be time for you to stop pulling.

That doesnt mean Plan B!! Plan B is only if YOU cannot go on with this any further. But it does mean that you begin to pull away, begin to not jump straight up and respond to an email. Begin to put other things in yoru life first.

Your wife should be first, and normally you would. But right now, you would be better off putting some other things first. Things like I mentioned above. Thngs like...dont call her. If she calls, answer. If she wants to go out, go out. But dont call her up and ask her to go out. Instead, if it is a free Friday night and she hasnt asked...then go out alone or with friends.

There is a fine line between passive aggressive and with doing what I am talking about. You should continue to be nice, continue to meet needs as they present themselves. Continue to tell her yoru boundaries and also make sure she understands that this situation will not last forever. She will need a reason to jump to your side of the fence. As long as you are pulling, she aint gonna do it. So, stop pulling and get out of the way!!! Give her room to land.

In His arms.

SMI,

Yes, in hindsight, we both did our share of "condescending behavior" toward one another. And that is something that I want SO much to never let happen again....in any relationship. It seems to go with complacentcy.

I know now, just how precious a marriage is....more than I could have ever dreamed. I pray she sees the same importance, down the road.

Thank-you all!!!

Mortarman,

You need not worry,,,,I'm slowed down!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just anxious to have as much knowledge from you fine folks as I can get!! Then take some time to digest all the wonderful ideas and opinions and apply that wisdom.

I have done exactly what you and UVA and others have mentioned....pull away...just a bit. Not in some contrived way. But more like, "Hey I think I'll call WW" Then: "Nah...I just talked to her last night....I've got things to do around the house anyway."

The more I think of all of this....it feels EXACTLY as it did when we first met...at least in some aspects.

Thank-you again all!!

Now....here is the last exchange...and it may give you folks some insight as to what has transpired....maybe a 2X4 coming, but I'll get it right eventually!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Me: "When he calls, what do you guys talk about???? Is it hard?? Is it lightheared???"

WW: "Um, he thinks I am "crazy". As in, not in my right mind. Probably because he saw the peaks and valleys that I have been through. He totally understands how I feel. He is sad and has made it very clear how he feels about me but he wishes me well. Most of the time its just chit chat. Sometimes is IS hard and sometimes it IS lighthearted. I feel like its been easier this way than just cutting the cord plain and simple. "running the course" so to speak."

I'm done emailing for today...just a good way to end it.

Thanks, again folks!!!
MWIL

MWIL...

I say you should DEFINITELY use moving as a negotiation tool for NC...Have her move back in now to help get the house ready to put on the market before summer is over because fall is obviously not a great time to do so...Get excited about it WITH her...Before she is allowed to move back in and start this step towards your future stipulate that a NC letter has to be written and sent...TOTAL transparency MUST be a part of the package, ie. Keylogger on the computer, cell phone passwords, ALL must be laid bare...

You may feel that you shouldn't have to negotiate for NC, and honestly, I can understand that...but it is what it is...I believe this to be one of those times where you can either be right or be married...For a long while she will still feel that she genuinely cares for OM...don't hammer that...the fact that this is all unreal will come to her in time...Say yes to the move, but make it a quid pro quo (this for that)...Mr. W negotiated the disposal of the "affair phone" by promising me a new laptop-the fact that I had to be bargained with in this way sounds incredibly childish to me now...But facts are facts and a WS behaves and responds in childlike ways, so again, it is what it is...use it to your advantage right now...

It all sounds pretty promising to me MWIL...Godspeed to you my friend...

Mrs. W

MWIL, just wanted to drop by to lend you my support as wll. I'm happy to see you clearly stated your boundaries to your WW since NC is a must for recovery as we all know.

Mrs.W is right about negotiating NC even though you feel as though she should want it. Unfortunately it rarely seems to work that way and that is why stating your boundaries is so critical. She must know what your expectations are if the both of you are to go forward.

As everyone has indicated, this is a dance. I have noticed more R-talk in her emails to you, especailly as it relates to you as opposed to the OM. This is great sign and I believe she is trying to find her way back home.

As MM has suggested...get out of the way.

HTW

P.S. Even though I haven't been posting lately I have been reading all the posts. All the best!