This is not a question of what's best for the child at all.

I will never ever agree with that sentiment...as long as I breathe....

so lets just agree to disagree...

all these adult motivations of seeking truth...
have huge huge huge huge ramifications for the CHILD...and there is no reason that it can't wait till the said child is 18-21 years old...

I will not compare affair info amongst adults ...and information that rocks the foundation of a childs safety as the same........................

this man upon finding out the truth could destroy this boy with this new found knowledge....

It is wrong what the wife did...no doubt...but it is done...and there in no reason to undo it now at this time when this childs foundation is already so unsteady and unstable...............

we are not talking about a cohesive family unit as it is...and to reak more havoc and chaos for NO reason at this TIME makes me ill.........

ARK

If we were voting, I would come down firmly on a NO to telling. The rationales of inherited disease and of the "right" of the boy's father to know that he might be raising a child who is genetically not his, as well as the "right" of the boy to know who he is, are all silly.

The most important consideration here is the boy's security. He has a relationship with a man he believes is his father. And that man has a relationship and a history with the boy. They both have memories and trust. Anything that threatens that security and that bond is evil.

The only reasons I could imagine for telling the man the "truth" are spiteful and spurious. Don't turn this situation into a Jerry Springer episode.

The longer the boy doesn't know the truth, the longer he has to mature. Not all truths should be told.

Since when did knowing the TRUTH become evil?

TRUTH stands on it's own. It's evil when we manipulate it in the name of "what's best" for another person.

I'm sorry...burying the truth is truly evil.

I have seen this issue debated in these forums before. It absolutely amazes me to see people who rate Honesty and Openess as their number one core value suddenly decide that lies and subterfuge are now acceptable in "certain" situations...then refuse to discuss the ethical implications.

It comes down to knowing you are wrong...but thinking your are justified in your wrongdoing. I think it's worth starting a new thread...

Then you sidestep an important discussion, ark. You are essentially saying that the stability of my children's home is not as important as this other child's home. The discussion parallels are significant because in BOTH cases we are discussing the witholding of information that can damage the children. Either it's right to do it, or it's not. Which is it?

Yes, the boy's "dad" could decide to hurt his "son" with this information. But that should be his choice to make, don't you think?

You are essentially saying that the stability of my children's home is not as important as this other child's home. The discussion parallels are significant because in BOTH cases we are discussing the witholding of information that can damage the children. Either it's right to do it, or it's not. Which is it?


I am not getting in to debates about what is right or wrong...

I am talking about what in my opinion is right for this situation...

if you have specific real life question about YOUR family I and wanted my OPINION I would be happy to offer one....and you can certainly do what you want...

her wrong
is/was wrong

telling NOW when the boys life hangs in the balance...
is wrong as well

it's all already all wrong....
but currently their is no blatant damage..
it is the lesser of evils...

ARK

The boy will eventually find out. He will.

What then?

Who does he have issue with, his mother or the other adults who lied to him?

All the above?

When is is easier for him to deal with this, now or when he is 33?

Harley says now. Why is Dr H not belived by some of you guys in this case?

The long term lesser evil over the horizon may not be the same lesser evil one's nose is pressed up against.

for as many as respected dr harleys say tell now...

there are as many respected dr. so and so's who say not now..

I say not now because MOM is in a PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL>>>
incapable of dealing with the son in the way he would need to have someone care for him.....

she is to ill herself to nurture or deal with his emotional fall out...

so lets hit the fifteen year old kid when he is already down one parent...and take away his DAD!!!!!!!!!!!
In the name of truth...

Harley's word in written context with situations can certainly differ....

pull out the one grownup in the childs life....
doubt he'd go for it....RIGHT NOW>...

bet if I go read the article the family he is dealing with in NOT in as much crisis as this one...
betcha...

ark

aphelion...

33 year old have much much more life experiences and

fifteen year olds and 33 year old DO NOT deal with things the same way......

not even close........

ARK

It seems to me that double standards are on show here.

One of the foundation principles of MB is that secrets harm relationships. We accept - because we've lived it - that a secret permeates a relationship and sours it. Things just 'feel' wrong, although we're being given the impression that there's no reason for that feeling.

If this is true for a marital relationship between two adults, why would it not be (perhaps even more) true for a child whose 'father' may well have doubts about the truth of the relationship?

I've known several people who found out accidentally as adults that their 'father' was not their biological parent. And the reaction of each of them has been 'Oh- that's why things never felt right!' They had subliminally sensed that they didn't 'fit' - didn't look physically the same, didn't have those quirks of physiology and temperament that subconsciously link parent and biological child. There was a sense of relief that they could finally make sense of a lingering uncertainty.

A bit like the sense of relief on d-day, when that baffling sense that something isn't right gets resolved?

This may not be a good time to bring yet more confusion onto the boy's life. But to leave him to live permanently with a possible lie, for 'his own good', seems arrogant to me, and dangerously close to 'what the BS doesn't know won't hurt her/him'.

TA

Ark, thank you for not YELLING at me this time.

I have a more than passing interest in this question.

Everyone here seems to think that if the boy is not specifically told, then he'll never know.

Sorry -- in the 21st century, there is every good possibility that this boy WILL learn that the man he thinks is his bio-father is not his bio-father at all.

If no one respects him enoughto tell him, he will end up learning it in the most shocking and sudden of ways (the blood test or cross-match test or DNA test done for some other purpose) and he will learn it from total strangers (medical personnel or a piece of paper.)

If there is any doubt as to who his bio-father is, a DNA test should be done. The boy does not have to know this is being done. Labs can take his toothbrush and test that, or he can be taken for a routine check-up and have a routine blood sample drawn.

Then - if it turns out that Dad is not bio-dad, the boy can be told by people who care about him with the assistance of professionals. I cannot imagine that if this boy has always had a solid, caring relationship from birth to age 15 with his dad, that this dad would simply cut that off and disappear if the boy is found not his bio-son.

I don't see where Mom being in a psych ward has anything to do with it. It may, in fact, help the boy to understand why his life is the way it is. As long as he's got *somebody* sane who cares about him, and professionals are availble to help him through this, he WILL make it through.

But if he has to find out the hard way, and ALSO has to realize that the adults he thought he could trust have conspired to lie to him about who he really is -- which do you think will do more damage?

He WILL find out eventually. We do not live in the Dark Ages anymore. And even people in the pre-tech past had a way of finding out such things.
Mulan

NO mulan,,,, everyone doesn't think that he will never know..
everyone doesn't think he should never know..

the question is how can this be a good time..

mom is in psychiatric hospitals...
step-dad is in crisis on the verge of divorcing or being divorced...

perhaps nick will split up the family..his kids with him...son with mom....

kid right now has one stable person....

so lets take him away right NOW in the name of noble truth...

makes sense to me...

if they celebrate...perhaps he can be told Christmas Eve....

right now this boy only has people who care about themselves...their OP...etc etc etc....

but in name of truth..lets just carry on down this path...

this post makes me sick...
it is not that same as affairs with grownup..
it is grossly unfair to apply the same ability of logic rational thought processes...and emotional stability as grownups to a fifteen year old whose family is already in crisis.....and he already has NO control..

fifteen year olds are a high target risk category..cause they truly do believe things like breaking up with grilfriend is worthy of dying for........
they are emotionaly labile time bombs....


lets see..

mom continues to suffer in her issues...unable to help him..
step dad leaves this boy with unstable..

and now we take the only father out of the equasion as well...

the issue with mom's issues...is that she can't emotionally nuture anyone else at this time..and this would be huge........and if you think professionals can...it's a nice fantasy.......

the systems over worked underfunded and limited in resources...

I just know I will be skipping any posts title...

well I told........

ARK^^

It seems to me that we have 2 ½ schools of thought on this issue with 1 ½ saying that this information should have lite shed upon on it though some disagree on when and 1 saying carry it to your grave.

I, myself, would lean to the side of being honest but also feel that how you are honest in this scenario is as important as being honest. The simple fact now is that you don’t know who that child’s father is and need to tread carefully as not to take his father away unjustly. If you have a relationship of any sort with the children’s father, it is he who I would confide in. Without being disrespectful to your wife, it’s apparent that she has serious issues and the conversation with him needs to take that into account. From that point on, I would wash my hands, unless asked, as to the lineage of the children. If this child has a relationship with his dad, I don’t feel you’re under any obligation to reveal any information to the son and to me that is the point where you could bring harm. Under no circumstances would I recommend you turning this into a personal mission, getting testing done, and presenting anyone with the findings. It’s my humble opinion that your obligation of honesty rests with the father or alleged father.

I am reminded of a scripture that I feel lends itself to this matter in the book of Ephesians (4:15) we are called to Speak the Truth in Love. I would ensure that there is no malice in your heart in what you do and think carefully, maybe with professional help, before revealing any information.

Okay, I just now saw this thread and I thought I would add my 2 cents.

For those on here that have read my history, they know I have three kids. My oldest son, who is now 13, is not mine biologically. When I met my wife, she was in college and he was just a couple of months old.

The bio dad had been a guy she met and dated for a few weeks, and then he moved away. He did not know of the pregnancy. When we married, we decided to do two things. First oof, my wife contacted this guy and let him know of this boy. We wanted to enter into the marriage and into our family with the truth out there, and to give this guy a chance to make up his mind on what he wanted to do with his son.

I am very impressed with the decision this guy made. We were now living in Virginia and had just gotten married. He was living in Kansas and had also just gotten married. Our son was about a year old. This guy said...look, I wouldnt be in his life that much, living so far away. Added to that, he is young and doesnt know me. He agreed with my wife that I should adopt this boy and we should raise him in a normal environment, not pulled between households. One dad, one mom. So I adopted my son, the birth certificate was changed to list me as the father. Also was agreed that one day our son would be told...and he could make the decision to approach his bio dad or not.

Well, about two years ago, my son started askign questions. He had figured out the timing (we were married in April 2003, he was born in July 2002). He wanted to know if we had had premarital sex?

Now, how do I answer that? Had his mom and I shacked up beforehand and he was the result? Do I tell him that? Or do we tell him the truth. Up until then, he so look liked the brother and sister my wife and I conceived, that no one knew the story that wasnt there in the beginning. I even caught relatives and even myself, from time to time, saying things like: "Hey, Mortarman, it looks like he has your ears." And then we look at each other and realize what we were saying.

My oldest was raised exactly the same as the other two. As am atter of fact, while I do not have a "favorite," if anyone would look at me with our kids, would see that it is the oldest that I bond with the closest.

So, how do we answer the boy? Lie to him? Or tell him the truth?

Of course, we told him the truth. We told him that just because he doesnt share my genes, that nothing changes between us. I am his dad. He also learned that his bio father did an honorable thing for him. And we left our son with the responsibility of deciding who else would ever know about this (his brother and sister still do not know).

You know how he handled it? he asked a few questions (where does bio dad live, do I have any other siblings, etc). And after that day, it has never been mentioned again. Oh once or twice, his little brother will say something like "when dad and mom had you..." and my oldest will just look at me and smile a knowing smile!

I guess I am saying it is all in how you handle it. There was no way I would lie to my son, or let him live a lie. And he never did. I am his dad. The other two are his brother and sister. He can and does feel as much a part of the family as they do.

I do agree with MelodyLane that right now isnt a good time for that boy, as he has a lot of crap going on in his life. But I do think that he does deserve to know who he is and what he is about. Maybe not at 11 (my boy was 11). But if he asks, then I believe you must tell the truth. And if he doesnt ask, I do believe that one day, that he should be told. To knowthe truth and make up his mind on how he relates to everyone with that truth.

Just my 2 cents.

In His arms.

This thread is making me quite sick as well, but for far different reasons than ark et al.

I certainly think the "father" should be told that this child may not be his. Then this man can proceed as he will. He can get a genetic test to determine paternity or he could do nothing. Again it is his choice as it should be. He should not be deceived into raising a child that might not be his. That is just evil.

The fact that some here are advocating downright deception boggles my mind.

It certainly will color my view when I read other things that they post.

You either believe in honesty or you don't. Sorry, we don’t get the luxury to practice selective honesty to shield others from what we think might be unpleasant truth.

I wouldn't tell this 15 year old kid a thing. He doesn't need to be told by the originator of this post. The originator should certainly tell the supposed father of his wife’s confession, that he may be a cuckold and raising a child that might not be his.

Finally, if I were raising a child that wasn't genetically mine I would certainly want to know. Likewise, if I had sired a child that I didn't know about I would want to know. It isn't a monetary issue for me. If I had another child out there and that information was being kept from me I would be livid when, notice I said “when” and not “if” because these secrets seldom remain hidden in perpetuity, I found out. I don't care if someone thought it best to keep my child ignorant that I was his father because it would be "best" for him. Complete BS. I am a good father and would do my best to establish a relationship with any child that I sired.

This thread is sad really.

honesty is NOT always the best policy...

not always...
sometimes honesty is useless information...
sometimes...

so there for I am a person who sees no reason for honesty in all situations...

infact if I truly lived by that honesty always being I would NOT be able to hold a job...

because sometimes bosses are incompetent indiots....but being honest with them would not serve them...or me very well...

and we dayum well better practice selective honesty...or many of us would be fired and in jail...for causing a public disturbance...


who will raise this child..while mom is in the hospital..
dad is no longer dad
and step dad is long time gone.....

who can really believe that this time in this child's life is a good time to do so....

call me a liar
call me whatever...
I'd take it all on...for the sake of the child getting to a safe place to handle the f#$%%'d up crap of the grownups...

ARK

I won't call you anyting. Your words define you better that I possibly could.

I guess we should redefine one of the golden rules:

"honesty is the best policy, sometimes."

Ok, here is my spin on the situation.

First, and most importantly, how will this affect the boy being told.

Does the fifteen year old boy have a stable and loving family to offer him a place of refuge, or will he take this "Truth", and turn it on himself, and believe that he is second best, or "the ugly step-child syndrome"

IMHO, I believe the fifteen year old boy is entering a extremely delicate age of choosing which path in life he is going to go down.
If this "Truth" is revealed to him at this time, without the grounding of a caring, loving family to help him through this, his outcome will be very dicey, to say the least.

Its hard enough just being 15, without adding the turmoil of learning that the only stable person in your life is actually not your biological parent.

Children, at 15, make irrational decisions that have long term ramifications, often changing the course of their live's forever.

For example, my cousin's parents uprooted their family, and moved across the state to Georgia, and made their 17 year old son go with them.
He was in love with a girl from his home town. He was going to graduate in 6 months from High School. His parents would not let him live with his grandmother for the last six months of school so he could still be with his girlfriend.

My cousin chose a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
He committed suicide, using his father's gun.

An adult might say, why did he kill himself, he only had to wait six months, then he could move back to his home town and resume his relationship with his girlfriend?

That just it, an adult could reason that in six months, you graduate, move back to your home town, live with your grandmother until you are able to support yourself.

A seventeen your old boy didn't have an adults perception. He made poor choices based on feelings and lack of experience that comes from age.

Now, back to the young fifteen year old boy. I feel that this young man might be able to handle this information one day, perhaps, when he is older and living a more stable life, but not now.

Fifteen-year-olds, are still trying to figure out where their place is in the world. They make poor choices, not realizing that things change often without ever having to do anything different. Time changes things. Fifteen year olds think in absolute or black and white. They have yet to learn about the many shades of grey.

I think every case is different. Families are different.

Sincerely,


K.D.'s Heartbreak

so comfortably numb...you speak honestly all the time..

tell your friends you think their hair cut is stupid, ugly..

that outfit makes you look fat etc..

I think you are a idiotic boss...

please....

no body speaks honestly all the time....
I know I don't...
there is not always a NEED to speak honestly..

not always...

ARK

There was a time when I used to think like this. I used to tell myself that what my wife didn't know wouldn't hurt her. And I was right...until the truth came out...which it inevitably does.

I also used to do this at work for the reasons you stated...and I wasn't nearly as respected at work as I am now. There is a HUGE difference between telling someone that you think they are wrong and telling them you think they are incompetent. There is a HUGE difference between telling the truth and telling your opinion...opinions are not necessarily truth.

And while the truth has been known to cause a public disturbance, there has been no situation where someone has been JUSTLY prosecuted for telling it (unless it was legitimately classified information).

Right now, there is a question about whether my STBXW had an affair 20 years ago. Do you think it was right that my BIL and my SIL kept that secret from me all these years? Their justification was that it was over and telling would only hurt my family and children.

Comparing this situation to exposing an affair is quite valid. Exposing an affair will HURT the children in that family. They may very well be 15 years old. They might very well be at risk. Exposing the affair risks divorce, which is known to be very damaging to children. Yet, we all seem to advocate exposure as the right thing to do.

So, I would propose then, that if we are so concerned about the welfare of children, that we should work to ensure that affair are NOT exposed so the family unit can be kept intact as long as possible.

Low