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Mimi-
Good luck with your search for a spiritual home. You shouldn't feel as if you need to defend or explain yourself or your decisions to anyone here. I think its insulting and arrogant that anyone would need you to. Mojo: Thanks for this... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Here you go Mimi. Here are examples where God has commanded man to destroy other men: Num 21:1 When the Canaanite, the king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming by the way of Atharim, then he fought against Israel and took some of them captive.
Num 21:2 So Israel made a vow to the LORD and said, "If You will indeed deliver this people into my hand, then I will utterly destroy their cities."
Num 21:3 The LORD heard the voice of Israel and delivered up the Canaanites; then they utterly destroyed them and their cities. Thus the name of the place was called Hormah. And... Deu 20:1 "When you go out to battle against your enemies and see horses and chariots {and} people more numerous than you, do not be afraid of them; for the LORD your God, who brought you up from the land of Egypt, is with you.
Deu 20:2 "When you are approaching the battle, the priest shall come near and speak to the people.
Deu 20:3 "He shall say to them, 'Hear, O Israel, you are approaching the battle against your enemies today. Do not be fainthearted. Do not be afraid, or panic, or tremble before them,
Deu 20:4 for the LORD your God is the one who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.'
Deu 20:5 "The officers also shall speak to the people, saying, 'Who is the man that has built a new house and has not dedicated it? Let him depart and return to his house, otherwise he might die in the battle and another man would dedicate it.
Deu 20:6 'Who is the man that has planted a vineyard and has not begun to use its fruit? Let him depart and return to his house, otherwise he might die in the battle and another man would begin to use its fruit.
Deu 20:7 'And who is the man that is engaged to a woman and has not married her? Let him depart and return to his house, otherwise he might die in the battle and another man would marry her.'
Deu 20:8 "Then the officers shall speak further to the people and say, 'Who is the man that is afraid and fainthearted? Let him depart and return to his house, so that he might not make his brothers' hearts melt like his heart.'
Deu 20:9 "When the officers have finished speaking to the people, they shall appoint commanders of armies at the head of the people.
Deu 20:10 "When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace.
Deu 20:11 "If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you.
Deu 20:12 "However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it.
Deu 20:13 "When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword.
Deu 20:14 "Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you.
Deu 20:15 "Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations nearby.
Deu 20:16 "Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes.
Deu 20:17 "But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you,
Deu 20:18 so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the LORD your God.
Deu 20:19 "When you besiege a city a long time, to make war against it in order to capture it, you shall not destroy its trees by swinging an axe against them; for you may eat from them, and you shall not cut them down. For is the tree of the field a man, that it should be besieged by you?
Deu 20:20 "Only the trees which you know are not fruit trees you shall destroy and cut down, that you may construct siegeworks against the city that is making war with you until it falls. And... 1Sa 15:3 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' " More later. I have to go get into Washing, DC traffic! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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And let me take for a moment to say there was one tragic case...just one...where someone was executed wrongly. Still, should that affect whether we have the death penalty? Certainly not. Just as a police office that shoots someone and it is later found out that they didnt have a gun in their hand, but instead a cucumber...should we take guns away from the cops. We are human. Mistakes are made. And sometimes, people die when making those mistakes. You said it yourself, MM... This is one of the reasons I don't believe in the DEATH PENALTY.... Mortal man, messing in GOD'S WORK.... A policeman carrying a gun for protection of himself and society is not the same as that same policeman- making a decision on his own- because he feels AUTHORIZED- to go ahead and SHOOT someone that is suspicious on the street corner... For me, one case of wrongful execution is one too many in our CIVILIZED COUNTRY....
Last edited by mimi1254; 12/13/05 02:53 PM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Oh, you left out the City of Jericho where the walls fell and everything was put to death.
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MM:
It seems that you are giving instances of DIRECT COMMANDS from GOD in individual situations..not a global AUTHORIZATION as you put it...
And I'm waiting for a NEW TESTAMENT reference, of course...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Quote:
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Mimi-
Good luck with your search for a spiritual home. You shouldn't feel as if you need to defend or explain yourself or your decisions to anyone here. I think its insulting and arrogant that anyone would need you to.
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Mojo:
Thanks for this... I hope that is not in reference to my question. I asked Mimi...and I think she and H should ask themselves..do they agree with the Catholic doctrines. No explanation here, to us, is required. I know in my new church, of a different denomination, there is one doctrine that troubles me a great deal. I am unable to find ANY basis in the Bible for its explanation. However, that ONE doctrine is not enough to make me removed myself from the OTHER missions and activities with which I do agree. I think the question is a valid one.... Georgia
Formerly G.G. and Jeb
Me: BS 50
She: xW 50
Jeb: Mini Schnauzer
Married: 29 yrs
Children: MM25, MM23
Plan B - 12/06/04
Divorced - 11/17/05
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This has been a very fascinating discussion! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> thanks everyone ... it is good to read other opinions to chew on.... *chew*
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Revelation 9
15And the four angels who had been prepared for this hour and day and month and year were turned loose to kill one-third of all the people on earth. 16They led an army of 200 million mounted troops--I heard an announcement of how many there were. It might be a reference of future things to come, but it comes from the New Testament. Even though it mentions angels, angels were often present in many of the battles the Lord commanded. Even Josuha met angels and bowed before them.
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Georgia-
No, it wasn't directed at you specifically.
I'm not a Christian anymore, and I know because of this, a few people don't have much respect for my thoughts, values, or anything I have to offer.
Religion and spirituality is extremely personal and I honestly believe no one must explain why or how or defend themselves when they seek the Divine.
Mimi shared a tidbit about something her H and her were considering, and I saw how quickly she would be put in a defensive or apologetic position. I've been there and its a rotten and degrading place to be. I was just giving her a spiritual hug, if you will.
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LOL! thanks everyone ... it is good to read other opinions to chew on.... *chew* Only Pep knows how to start "forum fires"!! (not really, just kidding) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> SD
BH - me 53, ONS 1979
FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA
Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003
Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04
***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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Okay, Mojodiva...
I'm sorry you have had bad experiences. I suppose that any of us who are around long enough will encounter something, or someone, who gives us some difficulties.
I try to deal with that (personally) by trying to assure that I am not one of the folks who others may see as a "stumbling block" (which, btw, Paul does address).
There are likely some who will now see me in a different way since I am divorced. It just helps me to be more patient as what I "perceive" as others weaknesses, fallacies, or sins (if we wish to call them that). I try to leave my stones in my walkway and not throw them at folks....
(pssst - don't tell anyone, but I still respect you and your thoughts).
Georgia
Formerly G.G. and Jeb
Me: BS 50
She: xW 50
Jeb: Mini Schnauzer
Married: 29 yrs
Children: MM25, MM23
Plan B - 12/06/04
Divorced - 11/17/05
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My youngest son called me one day and he was so hurt by the annulment - I did explain to him that it had nothing to do with him - according to the church it has no effect on the children but that also makes me wonder - how can a marriage be invalid but the children not be affected? I believe the argument is that the marriage is "legal" -- just not "sacramental" in the eyes of the Church. Therefore, the children are unaffected. This "non-sacramental" nature I suppose would apply to all non-Christian marriages. Certainly it applies to all remarriages where one spouse is still living and non-annulled. The only ones that begin to qualify as "sacramental" are where both people have been baptized in a standard Christian church. Then they have to be of their right minds, fully consenting, no divorced spouses, etc. I'm not defending or attacking the position -- just stating it.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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(pssst - don't tell anyone, but I still respect you and your thoughts).
Georgia *chuckle* Yeah, be careful, some might not approve. I have run into this problem with Christians I lived next to ( they would love to tell me "You're a Christian, you just don't know it." when they observed our family values). I have run into this problem with a few Orthodox Jews, a group with which I help run an anti-missionary information site online. I have run into it with pagans, Wiccans, Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, and even Methodists. Its almost as if they sense you don't fit their mold, they are scared you will somehow pollute their waters. Its why Im extremely skittish about discussing my own beliefs anymore. I just did not want Mimi to feel that. Ever.
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I just did not want Mimi to feel that. Ever. Really? I must be weird. If Mimi feels "whatever" I think she can use "whatever" to her advantage if she chooses. I think Mimi can handle herself ... if someone holds Mimi's feet to the fire, I trust Mimi to kick! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Mimi~~~> I converted to Catholic church 10 years ago. (during H's affair ... 'nuther whole episode ... LOL) The process at that time took 2 years. I think it has been shortened a bit. RCIA is what the classes are called. You don't need to make a decision if you take the classes. I highly recommend the classes by the way. Intellectually stimulating and spiritually challenging. However, I am currently on hiatus with the Church <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ... because of my problems with our archdiocese ... and the whole child sexual abuse issue .... until I get that worked out in my mind ... I am fence-sitting as a Catholic.
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Happyfamily, Not to get too OT, I just wanted to reference an article on annulment for you. http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Sep1998/feature1.aspNote especially the inset on the respondent’s rights. A respondent who does not reply is generally considered to be in agreement. Thus, the typical outcome. Also, there tends to be a lot of cannon law involved which is still regrettably, rather arcane. A main consideration is marriage of a Catholic to a non-catholic and especially to a non-Christian. The unevenly yoked marriage brought up here so often. This situation sort of greases the rails. Pretty much the same thing happened to my sister after a 20 year marriage, with three children, to a non-catholic. If she had objected, I was later told, the annulment would not have been granted. But she had given up by then and no longer cared. She was happy to be rid of him after all his emotional and physical abuse, in fact. With prayers,
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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Mojo, you said: I just did not want Mimi to feel that. Ever. Again, I REALLY APPRECIATE your concern.. As you can tell, I 'm learning about showing appreciation... Also, I want you to know...it's really important for me NOT TO BE OR TO BE VIEWED AS JUDGMENTAL.... That's been true about me before D-Day... So, even though, I am a Christian...I am open to hearing about your beliefs and opinions... I have friends that are Nonbelievers, Jewish, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Muslem, Holiness, of course, Baptist like me..black, white, brown and red in color.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Pepperband- Actually, you are correct. I'm sure Mimi could kick some you-know-what, take names, and then bake a sweet potatoe pie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My University courses on catholicism were fascinating and worth the money I paid. If I *absolutely had* to convert to Chrsitianity, it would be with the Church. But then Id have to say, hmm...Roman, Anglican, or Orthodox? hehehe You see, I can never pick just one. *laughs merrily*
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Actually, you are correct. I'm sure Mimi could kick some you-know-what, take names, and then bake a sweet potatoe pie. ... do you write country-western song lyrics for a living? HeeHee
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I am currently on hiatus with the Church ... because of my problems with our archdiocese ... and the whole child sexual abuse issue .... Pep: This is a consideration for us, too.... However, this stuff happens in all kinds of churches... I've been rethinking the the whole concept of ORGANIZED RELIGION..which is a big change for a long-term, holy roller, Sunday School teaching, church woman like I used to be.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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