I don't think we are EVER obliged to help anyone in the pursuit of immorality. However, if someone came here truly seeking to overcome their misconduct, I suspect they would get lots of help, just like you did when you came here.

However, it is doubtful that a 37 year old pervert who is sleeping with a teenage boy - and under indictment for child molestation and statuatory rape - would get much help. I will help anyone do the RIGHT thing, but I would never help someone do the wrong thing.

There are lots of ways to "help", and many of them have nothing to do with sanctioning or supporting destructive choices. For instance....I may be "helping" my teenager to learn good behavior, by taking away his driving priviledges because he got a speeding ticket. If my H was drug addict....I might be "helping" him by leaving and letting him face the consequences of his actions instead of enabling him. Help can mean facilitating... but help has many meanings and definitions. It might come in the form of guiding people towards more ethical choices....like we do for WSs and people considering affairs.

If "help" in this case means speaking to them, offering advice, asking hard questions....then yes I would be willing. If "help" means supporting their choice or ignoring the fact that one of the partners is child....then no I would not.

Melody is right....legal doesn't always mean "good" from an ethical standpoint. Just because someone is "married" doesn't mean they have a good marriage or an ethical marriage. I can think of all kinds of "marriages" that are fraught with risk and abuse. It's not much different from folks who come here with other abusive marriages (addictions, serial cheating, violence), and help is likely to come in the form of suggesting separating and protecting.....which is what I think is reasonable for this couple. The child needs to be protected until he is old enough to make a decision that isn't manipulated by adults (where are his parents????). When someone comes here....with an unconventional or destructive marriage....it is a huge opportunity to help them rethink their choices and consider the consequences of those choices.

What impact we have....might be nothing....but it's worth the chance to try I think. Even if the woman is "lost"...I'm not willing to write off the child.

Once again, Pep posts and the pot stirs.

I think this nutcase needs to wear a chastity belt and throw awwy the key! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

Um..yes it has and by the definition of every state in this country.

She is a child molester and should be treated as a sexual offender. However, many female child molesters tend to get much less severe sentences than male chile molesters. Why? I think it's because society tends to view the boys in these situations as "boys will be boys" and they aren't as affected as girls.

I believe this to be wrong. I have a couple of male family members that were molested as children and they are still tormented by it. One was 12 when his 27 year old baby sitter molested him repeatedly. He is 35 today and just now getting help. He feels that her treatment of him effected his choice of women, his sexual behavior especially in his late teens/early 20's, and how he allowed his xW to take advantage of him during their M and subsequent D.

This woman is a sexual offender and should be treated as such, imo.

My dd, ten years ago, had a boyfriend that was a product of his mother (adult) having sex with one of her students at a parochial school. The student/victim, (my dd's boyfriends biological father) was only 14 at the time.

Dd's bf's mother, (the teacher/molester) was married at the time and was a mother to two older children at the time. Her husband divorced her, she lost her job, she had the child who was raised not know who his biological father was until he was in his teens, and he met and changed his last name legally to reflect his bilogical father's last name.

The victim, (14 yr student) came from a very prominate family, that had historical ties to this area since the late 1800's, and were wealthy farmers.

Can you imagine the stink over that one.

I guess it just the times. She recieved only a minimum punishment of loss of job, reputation, and husband.

She was not charged with statutory rape, and got away free.

Boy she would not have been so lucky now adays, although, there are some families that try to keep that sort of thing in the closet, for fear of shame and embarrassment.

Sincerely,
K.D.'s Heartbreak

I don't think that we the collective would be qualified to help a fifteen year old process the reality of what is/has happened to them....


based soley on the anatomy of child developement there would be a great gap of communication based on how a child processes adult issues...

both from us
and to them....

and I don't think we would be qualified to deal with an adult on a rational level that sees nothing wrong with such actions as well...

ARK

Well, she charged with being a sex offender.

It may go to trial, or she might plea some lesser charge.

If any of us thinks no one should judge a sex offender as a criminal ... well, then you ought NOT judge your spouse's affair as offensive and wrong.

Let's "help" everyone.... no matter that we lack the tools... no matter that the law was broken ... let's ignore laws of protection for children .... super idea!

Let's write a recovery plan for a molestation-marriage....

lemme see ....

start with .... POJA .... the boy (he's 15) may drink alcohol only if his molester wife agrees with enthusiasm. After all, we ought not judge behaviors even if we think they are immoral AND there is a LAW against them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

all behaviors are equally OK

If this boy was not 15 but was 9 .... is that OK too?

Are you saying you draw NO LINE where you determine decency?

Starfish*


Who's ethics?

Starfish*



BUT ... you did not address the question I asked!

I asked this

Would you help this MARRIAGE if they came to MB.... as in .... apply the Harley concepts. Star*, have you learned concepts to apply toward saving such a marriage as we are discussing? Would you share them?

I personally do not feel qualified to help such a marriage because I have never come across any proven concepts that will get a molestation-begun-marriage on solid ground. Do you know of such concepts?

Spidey



Holding back personal judgements and offering to aid a child-molester to stay married to her victim is very dangerous, IMO.

I'm still scratching my head....

How can this be considered a MARRIAGE?

Oh, because it is LEGAL???

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I tried to answer honestly....and defined what kind of help I'd be willing to offer.


This is the first time you've mentioned "applying the Harley concepts....you just said "help".

The answer to this questions....is that I would apply the Harley concepts that would apply....in this case....all I can think of that that could possibly apply is Plan B. I would be far more concerned about protecting the child from a legal system that failed him, and would not advise him on how to "work through" an abusive "marital" relationship that would harm him further. So, in the traditional way that I would apply Harley concepts to other marriages....No, absolutely not.


I would not try to save such a marriage....even though I would be willing to speak to them. Nothing I've learned anywhere obliges me to do anything more (in terms of marriage building/saving) than treat these people like human beings (despite whatever bias or repulsion I may feel).


Again....there are no such "concepts"....my help, as I've tried to say previously, would be along the lines of getting both parties to separate, go to Plan B, until such time that this child is competent to make a decision AS AN ADULT. I would do my best to convince both sides that it is the least destructive choice if they intend to stay married. That is the kind of help I'd be willing to offer these individuals. I am not qualified, nor motivated to help build this marriage.

This hits just too close to home for me. Someone I care much about was molested for weeks by a 27 year old "woman" when he was 14. Not only that she was the mother of one of his friends. I believe this has definitely created issues for him in his life as an adult and in lack of self respect and personal boundaries. It is disgusting whether the abuser is male or female. A 14 year old child cannot make the decisions of an adult!

incorrect ... I said "help this marriage"

... and if this child-groom came to MB ... IMO he needs professional in person help (legal and emotional) ... not message board opinions and guidance... I feel certain that neither you nor I ought to think we have the ability to 'help" him .... other than to advise he get immediate professional help. Not UNtrained board members giving their views on ethics.

And if the molester-bride came to MB forum to fix her marriage to her victim .... your approach would be to what? teach her MB concepts? What exactly?

Another consideration...

Even professionals have not discovered an effective treatment for PEDOPHILIA....

You did not say "help....<as in applying MB concepts>" the way you did the second time Pep. "Help this marriage" doesn't have to mean....apply Harley, teach them how to navigate the pitfalls of pedofilia.....although perhaps that's really the question you are asking. If it is....you know my answer.


So we aren't disagreeing....the best "help" might be to listen and point him in the right direction....but that's still help. The best help might be to help him understand that the OTHER adults in his life are manipulating him but that a trained professional can be trusted....not easy...but worth the effort.


Tell her that she needs to find a good psychiatrist who specializes in pedofilia. Give her any information that I might be able to dig up about how incapable fifteen year olds are of making decisions of this magnitude.....might link some articles like these:

http://marriage.about.com/od/teenmarriage/a/teenbrain.htm

http://marriage.about.com/gi/dynamic/off...n_be_deadly.htm

What I would NOT do is to label her, call her names, or shun her. She has a great deal of power over this child right now....and though I would probably fail....I would make the effort to help her SEE him as a child and see herself as needful of professional help.


I've answered this pep.....you know I wouldn't. What's your point?


See above.

Starfish* .... do you consider their marriage valid?

you said:


edited to add:

Do illegal marriages fall under your definition of marriage? Can woman-child marriages be considered marriage?

Define "valid".

1. Well grounded; just: a valid objection. No
2. Producing the desired results; efficacious: valid methods. No
3. Having legal force; effective or binding: a valid title.Yes
4. Logic No
a. Containing premises from which the conclusion may logically be derived: a valid argument. No
b. Correctly inferred or deduced from a premise: a valid conclusion. No
5. Archaic Of sound health; robust. NO!

Or the legal definition of valid: An act, deed, will, and the like, which has received all the formalities required by law, is said to be valid or good in law. Unfortunately Yes




Unfortunately, the marriage you're talking about is legal. Is it a marriage?....yes, an abusive marriage. Why aren't you asking HOW this woman can legally marry this child in this country rather than worrying about whether it IS a marriage or who would talk to them? A drug addict who beats his wife is still married....though it's not much of marriage. A woman who is a serial cheater is still married, but she isn't honoring that marriage. "Marriage" is a legal or religious contract that doesn't ensure morality or goodness....we see that everyday. Their are marriages that are lawfully illegal and still recognized by the church....but that doesn't mean they're good/bad marriages. A woman-child marriage is obviously sanctioned by the lawmakers of Georgia. It's a marriage that should never have happened...but it did.

Thanks Star*


Was your response a "yes" or a "no" ? I can't tell. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />