Ok...here is my story.

I have been together with my wife for 13 years now....married for 8 years....and we have a 2 1/2 year old daughter.

I have had 100% trust in my wife for 13 years. When she would have work functions, etc. I never had any doubts, etc. when she would go out, etc. And I know for a fact that she has been faithful all that time. (long story how I know...wont go into it)

Well...starting in late October of this year....certain things, and a horrible gut feeling made me investigate my wife...on my own, not hiring a detective or whatnot. For one, she was saying things and doing things that were out of character. We had our holiday picture taken early November, like we always do. Well...out of the blue, she wanted a picture of just her and my daughter. That didnt really bother me. It was the events afterwards that were suspicious. Its one of those places where you get the pics back an hour later. Well, she didnt like how she smiled in them, so out of the blue on the way home she asks if I will take individual pictures of her when we get home. I found that to be the weirdest request. When I asked her why, she said because she liked the outfit she was wearing and didnt know when the next time that she would wear it would be.

That pretty much started my suspicions rolling. Well that, and 2 weeks prior to that she went out with people from her work . They took a vendor out for drinks etc. This vendor is from out of state...California. He had been there for 3 days to train my wife and a co-worker on one of there software apps. So, prior to the pic thing, I thought nothing of it really. Until...the next day after she went out, we get home and I am checking our answering machine. There was a call from Progressive insurance regarding an accident. I was confused and asked my wife about it. She told me when they left this bar, that she lightly bumped a vehicle and the guy at the door of the club told her to leave her info...there was no damage and my wife left, without leaving her info. So anyways I ask who was in the car with her. And it was this vendor.

Here is a backstory about this vendor. He is 45 years old, single, no kids, lives in an apartment and his life consists of going to concerts. He is a follower of this group HIM, which I feel that music, that group is horrible. Devilish music. Well, a few months prior to him coming to train my wife and her co-worker...her co-worker flew out to California for a seminar at this guys company, and her friend came out there as well to hang out with her for a few days in San Francisco. Well...the guy tries to hit on the "friend" first....and he gets shot down. He then hits on my wifes co-worker friend, and they wind up sleeping together. I have heard things about this guy that are so sleazy. He told those 2 women that he can get any woman he wants....when asked about why his cell phone doesnt have a personal message....his response was "So married men cant retrieve my info." So this guy is a sleazeball 100%!

So all that above happened prior to this guy coming for training.

After the little Progressive Insurance call...I had asked my wife why that guy was in the car with her, and she kind of got real defensive about it....setting off yet another flag for me. She had said the guy got in her car because he didnt want to get in the car with the "co-worker". So my wife already knows all this stuff about this guy prior to this. So me thinking my wife is acting fishy, I peek into her purse and find a business card from that guy....with his cell # on the back of it. It kind of made me upset, so I took the card without her knowing...and she layed into me...wheres the card, yadda yadda...so I denied even taking it.

Let's move forward a few weeks.....her company has another function...celebrating 20 yrs of her company. Well during the few weeks leading up to that event I grew more and more suspicious. So I wound up bugging her car. The following friday I listened to the tape. And my suspicions were correct. I first hear her and her friend from work (a female) in her car talking about this guy....my wife is saying how hot he is...how intense he is, etc....really hurt me. Then I hear how they had planned to meet, etc. She tells her friend that she was kind of scared because this guy had been so intense on the phone and emails, etc. Saying stuff like he wants to make love to her right there in the car when she picks him up from the airport, etc. She did say to her friend she was nervous, etc because she has been faithful for 13 years. (it was a sigh of relief for me to be honest to hear that) So as painful as this is to hear, I couldnt turn it off....I hear them leave the car....then my wife gets in the car several hours later....and she is talking to him, etc. Saying stuff like how she wishes he was there with her, etc. Now remember...they have never kissed, held hands, etc. etc.

So to confirm that it was the same guy, I take out the business card from before...and I email this guy under an account that had my wifes name on it. I simply type "Hows your day going?" And that started it...he fell right into it. So after about 5 or 6 emails back and forth as her...I came clean in the last email telling the guy to back of and stop messing with married women etc.

Well my wife calls me that day from a downtown seminar...all happy and bubbily, so I tell her that I know everything and that we need to talk.

So I go to our house after work, and we talk...tempers flare, etc etc.

The next morning I go out driving...for hours. I get a call from my wife...she's crying...telling me she called this guy and ended it with him. So I come home.

The saving grace of this whole thing for me is the fact that nothing has physically happened.

My story continues. The following Tuesday (Thanksgiving week) I made the mistake of going out with a few of my friends for a happy hour. I never go out. And I was still reeling from the week before...all the drama etc. So when I left the place I get pulled over and thrown in jail for a DWI. I have never been arrested in my life for anything. So I felt pretty low. (areested...wife almost cheating, etc.) I am not suicidal nor am I homicidal, but I did feel down in the dumps.

So I call my wife about 2 in the morning letting her know what was going on. She was so nice and understanding and orchestrated the bond for me...getting my car out of the impound etc. So when I got out the next day she was being cool in the car, saying we will go to her parents for Thanksgiving the next morning as planned...to get out of town, and forget all this drama for a few days. So I tell her...while holding her hand...that it felt good to feel that I have my wife back. BIG mistake!

I had a gut feeling after the holiday weekend, so I bugged her car again. She calls that guy again....telling him how disgusted she was at what I said, etc etc. I was crushed! So I confront her...again! This time....it was decided that I move out. I have been at an extended stay hotel since then. I was kind of angry at first that I had to move out of my house to give her her space...because in my mind, I am giving her the space so she can call and email this guy.

So once again, she is telling me that they dont talk alot, etc. So I kind of set a trap at home....I disconnected the wireless router at our house.....telling her that it went out and that it was a refurbished one when we bought it so it was bound to happen. Well...there was a day when it iced over here...and she had to stay home with baby. I had installed software that would record keystrokes on my computer. Well the day before, my wife had her first therapy session. So to me...that told me.."Ok..she is willing to work on this...it was a big step for her to take...and out of the advice of her councelor, I had scheduled my own session with a councelor for the next week. Things were looking up. Well that software picked up her logging into her "secret" email account replying to an email from this guy. His email had said...and this pushed me over the edge..."I cant believe we talked on the phone for 6 hours, etc" That was the blow to end all blows. I went ballistic. Here i am giving her the space, and she is still contacting this player! And that is what he is...a player. So I think being sleep deprived and all the drama of the last month....she tells me she was sick of being under this microscope....etc. So she wanted to end it with me!

So after we calmed down....she tells me that her doing this had stemmed from me not being intimate for the last 7 or 8 years. I mean it was there, but not alot. She goes on to tell me that it almost felt like we were roommates or best friends...but the passion was gone...and this guy filled this void. This guy pushes the right buttons with her. And that made me mad, because of course he is pushing the right buttons...she is feeding him all our drama, etc...so he can decide how to say things, etc. It is so obvious, and my wife is pretty level headed and can spot these things a mile away. And here I am making valid point after valid point but seeming like I am going crazy while doing so. While this guy is in the background coming across as Prince Valiant...saying the right things, etc. While I am crumbling.

I have called this guy several times telling him to back off, and he tells me that its my wife's decision. This is all fantasy.

I have talked to her co-worker (a friend of mine as well for the last 13 years.) She is the one that slept with the guy...she tells me that this guy is scum. And when I tell my wife...she says that she is just bitter because it didnt work out between them. I also called her very best friend (a friend of mine as well for 13 years) who had been thru this sort of thing...she was the victim like I was. When I told her allll the stuff that has been going on ..she was appalled. She said it didnt even sound like my wife to do this.


Flash forward to earlier this week. I think cracks are starting to show with her and this guy. Her friend called me the other night.....asking me to swear not to say anything that she was about to tell me. She proceded to tell me that my wife told her that the guy had called the night before...and that she really wasnt into the call. He was feeding more lines to her about relationships and that she could kind of see that they were lines. Another plus was that her 2nd therapy session was yesterday, and the therapist told her that she was happy to see my wife being more open minded this week and the therapist also told her that this thing with this other guy is all fantasy and not real and that she should use that thought process when she does talk to the other guy and that eventually it should slowly die out or something to that effect. The therapist also said its a long road for recovery for the 2 of us...but it makes me feel a little better.

So, to sum up my novel of a post.....my question is:

We both have deep rooted issues beyond this fantasy stuff going on. Mine being coping with the death of my father 8 years ago (around the same time the intimacy slowed down) and me having low self esteem. (which started around that time as well...put on weight, etc.) I am also a passive person, where my wife has control issues (even her therapist told her so...also I think she has some issues with her parents, etc that they will be tackling next week. So I think we are both aware of the issues, and we are both willing to work on us.

I guess my question is....Is this marriage fixable in you..the readers eyes?

My confusion is the whole space thing. After the new year I am getting an apartment...but a part of me resents that...like I have sucker written across my forehead...allowing her to continue calling him, etc in my own house...my castle, etc. I ask myself why is it me moving out etc?


Any thoughts?

Why did you move out? That is probably the absolute worst thing you could do and I am mystified about why you would since you are obviously just facilitating her affair.

Not unless you go home.

To answer, yes, I believe you can rebuild your marriage. But it will not be helpful to this end if you move out. Do not move out, okay? Stay in your home.

Your wife is already seeing that this guy is not what he says he is. It's taken time, but it's happening.

Go to the Plan A section. Read up about Love Busters, print the Emotional Needs Questionnaires and take them. (If your wife won't get involved, at least you take yours.) And start carving out time every day to spend together with your wife.

She's saying she doesn't feel the spark for you. She tried to find it with Mr. Sleaze. Work on filling her Love Bank. Don't have "Our Relationship" conversations with her. Just spend time together. And post here.

We have some wonderful vets who can really give you support.

Good luck.

Man... what a story.. You think a lot like I do in so many ways but you have some work ahead of you... and I like your style.

May I ask how you bughed the car? FM Transmitter?

My advice:

1) You guys should both be in seperate therapy to work out self issues
2) Marriage/Couples counseling is also a must. HMOs will cover this as well.
3) Not sure why you left the house?? Get back in your home!
4) I didn't hear the child mentioned once in your post!? Does your W know what the A and possibly the D could do to the child?

The good news is that in time, your W will see the OM for what he is.. She's in the "fog" right now but she will come out. The question is how much can YOU take?

Good luck Brother.. all will be revealed.. and yes, this situation will pass.... the outcome is 50% in your hands..... don't reduce the odds any more than that if you want it to work... and keep that 2.5 year old sheltered from all of this as best you can!! Protect the helpless vicitim!

If you really want to save your M, go back home NOW. Otherwise you are just enabling the A and wasting your time.

I echo UVA's response.

Yes, your marriage is still "fixable".

It is sad but it is unfortunatly true that the BS must expend most (if not all) of the effort to start the recovery process of the M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



Do not move to a new appt. Move home as soon as possible. Staying away from home is allowing the A to continue. You CANNOT allow the A to continue.

So in everyone's honest opinion...do I shut my mouth about all this stuff regarding the other man? It is very hard to do so...and when I do, I feel I am pushing her further away and into the arms of Prince Valiant! I know he wont stop what he is doing because he seems like he gets off on the drama...and he has nothing to lose.....he doesnt have a family being ripped apart...he can continue his concert going, pub night going (which I heard is walking distance from his apartment...and that he goes most nights! LOSER!)

SO right now all I have is the hope that it doesnt go further....that they dont plan to meet, etc But...I dont know what to do...I feel if I do move back in, she will use that against me...and the thing is...before all this happened, everything seemed fine with us (minus the intimacy) So I think on my end, it may have been brewing slowly for her for 7-8 years....where on my side, I got the 4 week brutal reality version. It all happened so fast, and to see my wife in a different light killed me...to hear her on the phone, it almost doesnt sound like her. And to know, that even last night she called him. (50 dollar caller id that is hidden that records incoming and outgoing calls...even though she deletes and tries to cover her tracks on all 3 phones)

I realize by continuing this "sluething" on my part is going to kill me and drive me crazy. Any suggestions on what to do about the "sluething". It is almost addictive to this point, and really makes me feel like crap for doing it....I feel like in the course of 4 weeks I have turned into this person I dont like! HELP!

about the sleuthing - if it makes it too difficult to Plan A, stop for now. Just assume that there is some contact, but ignore it. Just like you will ignore the OM. You should not talk about him, because you will fuel their affair.

Ignoring him doesn't push your wife into his arms. She may go there for awhile, but she won't stay. Here's what I believe: He likes being the third corner of a triangle. Talking about him just adds fuel to the fire.

Your wife will report back to him any conversations you have where he is the topic. They will bond over these conversations. Likewise, if you try to "educate" her about emotional needs, affairs, statistics, anything, she has an affair partner who will help her pooh-pooh your good knowledge.

Broken record her. I love you, I don't do divorce, I won't talk about divorce, I am here for our lifetime, I want to be your husband when we are both old and gray, that sort of thing. All positive.

You have the commitment. You promised before God and before family and friends to be with her until "death do us part." The OM doesn't commit to anything except playing the cuckoo with a married woman and visiting his bar.

Don't talk about getting the spark back. Just fill her love bank and Plan A. The spark can wait until later.

And move back home. She can't use that against you! Don't be ridiculous. You're her husband, refusing to abandon your home and refusing to give up on your marriage and family. You're the real Prince Valiant, fighting for your marriage. Chin up!

You could also always take care of LoverBoy Brooklyn style...

There's no better way to get a point across about the sin of imessing with another man's wife that a baseball bat or a pipe across the head couldn't communicate. You'll see how quick he'll "care"...

Of course, YOU can't be the one doing the swinging...
May cost you a few bucks but could also rid yourself of him...

Seriously... HE could be anyone and the question is WHY is your W doing this in light oif threatening a 12 year marriage with a small child involved. If she's not mentally ill, then I guess it's all about ENs... right MBers??

Good luck brother.. I'm betting on you..

And get the ****** back in the house!!!! ASAP. NO ifs, ands or buts...

"Sluething" is addictive but it will wear off.. Remember, SHE has driven you to this.. IFF she had nothing to hide, then you would have nothing to slueth so you're even there...

Listen.. keep tight tabs on everything.. you need all the help you can get now.. and get back home!!

and keep in mind that based on how you're describing things, this guy ain't into anything for the long haul.. but forget him.. Your W is with him.. HE could be anybody.... You're goal needs to be focused on fixing your M and each other's issues.... It's all very complicated but therapy can and will help..

You can/will have your wife.. and your life back ... if you do the right things...

and don't forget to listen to your heart... but don't act on emotions..

There are a LOT of folks here who have "been there, done that".. and the solice you will get here is great knowing that there are thousands of people going through what you are.. some worse off.. W screwing more than one OM, etc...

Be strong and get help.. and get back in YOUR house!!

wow...the responses are great here. Thanks for the support. What I will do now is continue at the hotel until next week for the holidays. I will then stay thru New Years. But it will kill me to not rib her about...."Ohhh are you missing him? Oooh are you going to sneak off and call him, etc." I will bite my tongue....but damn its hard. I fill if I request that I stay in the house, that it will push her over the edge...and sometimes my wife can be hard-headed about things. Hopefully with therapy, it will open her eyes. Am I allowing her to continue her fantasy by being in a hotel? Do I bring this up to her? Its like right now, I feel that if I bring anything up, she thinks I am grilling her, etc. I think I am thru with the constant grilling...but things do cross my mind at the lonely hotel room. You think alot when you are by yourself. Its crazy!

So how do I go about getting back in my pad? Without sounding like an [censored]. Because all her friends that this has happened to, they all chose the "space" route, and eventually got back together and our working things out. And their issues went beyond phone calls and emails, etc. In a way I am glad I put the kabasch on it early so they didnt meet, etc. A sign from God perhaps? Who knows. This experience has really opened my eyes to how to bounce back on my issues...i.e. self esteem...opening up to people, etc. After being in solitary (the hotel) you think about EVERYTHING!!!

dada - you can't get yourself back into that house quick enough. That's the truth. Go home, sit down on the couch, put on your emotional seat belt, and start launching the world's finest plan A. "ACTION" is now your montra. If you're out of the house you are sending ALL the wrong messages.

This will be the hardest walk you've ever taken. Start stepping and when you get tired or frustrated (it's a steep mountain) come here and get pumped up and rejuvinated.

We're all behind you. You're not alone.

Now get going... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to be blunt, but you are wasting your time unless you move back home. Your first priority is to protect your DD. You can't do that if you are away from her. Maybe, though, she is not a high priority. I don’t know, but if she is you know what to do. Also, if you want to save your M you must move back home. Your wife can leave the home if she wants to...without your DD. But you belong in the home.

By staying away you only enable the A and undermine your chances of saving your M. You need to develop some serious BACKBONE to deal with your situation. Stop making excuses!

We did you accomplish by leaving the house??

What we have here is a failure to communicate. MOVE HOME RIGHT NOW...... THIS VERY MINUTE.

Dada - Here is the step by step plan:

1. Move back home - today
2. Expose the scumbag to his employer. Send them copies of everything as proof.
3. Prepare yourself for one pi$$ed off W.
4. Read all you can about Plan A here and start to design your own Plan A.
5. Start changing the person you have become. You are not the man you want to be, right? Start working out, loose some weight, pick up an old hobby you had years ago, etc. Without you changing, nothing in your life will change.

That should get you started...

4 years ago I was you...

Gib

Dada, here is how you go about getting back into your pad:

1. Stop being a WIMP
2. pack your bags TODAY
3. climb in your car TODAY
4. turn on your car
5. drive home TODAY
6. walk in the front door and say "honey, I am home!!"
7. BE A MAN

That is how you do it. And it should be done TODAY. The absolute worst thing you could do is leave your own house. All you did was faciliate the affair and make it easy for your wife to cheat on you.

Then, once you get beck in your home, we will help you bust up this affair by exposing it.

You aren't getting anywhere by helping your wife destroy your marriage. Instead of helping her destroy your marriage, start working to SAVE your marriage for a change.

Dada,

I read your sitch yesterday and I am telling you. You have some solid vets giving you good advice on this post. You should absolutely move back in. No doubt about that.

There is no way for you to work on it by moving out. I still don't get your logic on that, but be assured. She is not coming around without you there. You can't even do a Plan A in your current situation.

Dada,

If you move back in and only if because it will matter not if you don't I have a suggestion for you also.

If I understand correctly, the OM is a trainer for a company or something your wife works for. You have a perfect Sexual Harrasment threat. Not with your wifes company because she would deny it, but if you have his business card, call his company and ask for HR. Tell them you are going to sue for Sexual Harrasment and if they don't have the guy back off your family will be coming at the company with both barrels.

Now the truth of the matter, your WW would have to actually bring the charges but the company he works for will not know either way because you can tell them she is too distraught and upset to discuss it anymore.

If your wifes friend that did sleep with him did the same thing that might slow him down and run him off.

Just a thought. See what some more experianced vets have to say. I am in the insurance biz and we have to protect against those issues all the time so I think I am on pretty good grounds, but once again, see what others say.

Good luck, but move back in now !!!