I hope things go well for you and I agree, "Who can cast the first stone"? It sure couldn't be me. I will pray for your children tonight as I pray for mine. The things is all of this makes a difference in how they handle there relationships in the future. My son is living proof. I know I will be a let down to many here but I believe divorce is in my future. Very near future. I am not saying we should put our kids before our spouse, but once it reaches a point of emotional and mental abuse we must do what is right for them. I hope all goes well for you. There is a novel called "Redeeming Love". It is a story based on Hosea in the Bible. It is a beautiful story of forgivness, love and patience. The fleshly side of me wants to say put her on the curb. But, the scriptures do use the comparison of Hosea's love to Gomer(prostitute)to Gods love for Israel. what an amazing story. It sounds like your love is so forgiving and constant. I don't believe there were children in this relationship until after her repentance. I guess that would be the difference. The author of the book is Francine Rivers I believe it is a love story but one in which I think you could see yourself and then step back and see where you may need to reevaluate your responses to your wife. One last thing about th trip and I am done. My son was in a class in school where one of the student's got the answere key to a test. a very honest student told on them and the teacher decided to set them up to go ahead and cheat but he changed the test in order to catch those who did. Well, my son cheated. I was heart broken. But I went to the principle and said I wanted my son to recieve his punishment and I was not making excuses for his stupidity but I was so hurt that the teachers KNEW these kids were going to sin and instead of saying I know what you are up too and i refuse to set you up to sin so i want you to know the test has been changed and because of someones honesty I have helped you not to make a horrible mistake. If you choose to cheat in the future that will be your decision but today I will help you overcome this temptation. that is how I feel about this trip. Don't help her fall to this temptation. Tell her no, if she chooses to go you have done all that you can. At least that will be an example that you wouldn't mind if your child saw. Say no not because of you but because of her and your children.OK therapy is over for me and I will TRY to sleep. My heart goes out to your family

By the way it was a Christian school so I was not expecting too much, I don't think. I said I was going to bed didn't I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WOW!

This reminds me of my DS when he had an addiction to drugs.

Oh he tried several times to "kick" it himself but the withdrawals were so bad he "never lasted more then a few days".
So, We(H and I) forced him into rehab he was under 21.
WAS he WILLING? NO Did it work? YES

He wanted to quit the drugs but couldn't on his own. He needed time away from the drugs to get a clear head and work on his addiction hmmmm could that be like NC?

If you really want to work on your marriage you need time away from the OM to work on your marriage. NC means NC.

BB - It was good to hear that you are doing okay. I know it must be awful for you right now.

I do have some concerns about some of the stuff your wife said that have nothing to do with the affair. Something about how you married her and love her no matter how much she keeps messing things up.

I'm just curious if there is a pattern in your marriage of her making "mistakes" and you rescuing her? Or am I reading something into her words?

Hi believer -

The only "mistakes" I can think of besides the current one is financial issues, which she has gotten much better at.

I wanted to give you all an update.

My wife came back tonight. The original trip was scheduled for 14 days (starting Tuesday, the 27th). By Wednesday, she had changed her ticket to come back on New Year's Eve.

This morning she called me (our daughter had been playing with my cell phone while I was still half-alseep and dialed my wife's number, probably because it was the last one dialed in my cell phone - said daughter had dropped the phone handing it to me when my wife called the kids last night). I asked her how things were going, and she said she was packing and going to the airport to catch a flight home. She got home a couple of hours ago.

I was incredibly happy to know she was coming back, and I also knew that the road ahead is long. I know that I have to carry the burden for some period of time. I didn't know how hard that would be.

I didn't even get a hug when I picked her up, even though she did miss me. The thing that hurt the most was when we got ready to go to sleep, I moved over to hold her. She told me she wasn't ready to be held. Ouch. Even in my worst dreams of carrying the burden, I never imagined that.

It seems like the more I try to meet her needs, the less she's willing to let me.

Assuming we get NC now, is this normal? What should I expect? (I'm in the How Should Affairs End chapter of Surviving An Affair). How do I handle it? What's the best way to show her I truly love her and care for her?

I realize that a lot of you disagree with me quite strongly on not taking a firmer stand on the issue of the trip. The trip is over now, and I'd like some input on how best to meet my wife's needs, and how to keep up the strength to do so. I see a lot of praying in my future, and it, to me, has already worked wonders from where we were 2 weeks ago, but what else would you all recommend? What worked for you? Thanks.

brokenbird

Please read THIS THREAD by clicking here . It is very important that you know where your current approach can lead.

I have been here for 18 months and I have never seen a successful recovery where the BS has been willing to discount the entry price to their heart for the WS. Not a single one.

Your attitude may feel right; you may be desperately grateful to have some shred of your wife back, but it is at the price of your dignity and any future for your marriage IME. Recovery takes a KNIGHT not a SERF.

You can win back a healthy marriage, but not like this. Do as you wish, you are at liberty to take any action you choose. Just know that suppication never works. Humility, yes, but supplication NEVER.

In case my story is of use to you, CLICK HERE to read it

All blessings.

BB listen to Bob. Heck, listen to the men regardless of the outcome they experienced themselves.

As you know, surely, your W's decisions have nothing to do with you and everything to do with you all at once.

What do I mean? I'll assume you wonder.

She watches everything you do. She's looking, desperately, for an excuse to hurt you.

Kissing her butt and glomming onto her is one of those.

Ask all the questions you need to ask. We'll answer, man.

GC

I think that is a difference between you and me Jen. You came here ready and willing to save your marriage. When I confessed the A, it was to let my DH know that I was ready to walk, that we had gotten to the point where I didn't sense that he wanted me, the kids, OR the marriage, and frankly, I was tired of fighting for it. I had reached my limit. So now our roles are reversed. And it's only been two months since I confessed, and ya know, I see change in him, but I have come so far from wanting it, that it's taking a lot just to read the books and make a conscious, willing effort -- again. To get what you want after you have given up desiring it.

Been away for a week - probably a good thing!

I don't think it is an ABERATION of character and I do think she knows right from wrong so she doesn't fall into either category.

But I don't KNOW her as such so I can't really say if it is an aberation of character or a character trait that has been with her all her life. Only you could answer that.

I was pretty angry when I drafted my comments. Angry but accurate.

I don't know if there is any hope for your mariage. There certainly isn't at the moment. There's a sig that someone here uses that sums it up pretty well..

-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.

Sums up your wife to a "T"

I really hope at some time she decides to give your marriage a shot. But she has made long term chances of success pretty slim - you will have some serious issues with resentment.

I wish you luck & sincerely hope you can use marriage builders principals to re-build your marriage & love for each other.

You were both at fault for the problems in your marriage - you may even be mostly at fault (I know I was). But your wife decided to have an affair. That part is 100% her doing. She decided to rub your nose in it. She has to take responsibility for the affair.

It's been a while (about 10 days) since I last posted. I wanted to give any interested parties an update on where MP and I are at.

MP is home - has been since Friday night on the 30th (she stayed 4 days, and 1 day was spent talking to me and 1 day was spent in the airport waiting for a ride home).

We are continuing our counseling, both individual and marriage. NC has been established (I am aware of the last time there was any form of communication between them).

We've been very busy since her return, both in terms of family activities and my wife's new job (she started Monday). We started family devotions right before Christmas, and my wife and I started our own devotion time New Year's Day.

I continue to work (with God's help) to fix the issues that I own that led to our problems, as well as praying with, over and for my wife on a daily basis.

I picked up The Power Of A Praying Husband (by Stormie O'Martian) on Friday, and read it through nearly in one sitting. For any Christian husbands out there, I cannot recommend this book enough. My wife read The Power Of A Praying Wife while she was at the airport waiting for a flight home.

I also gave my wife a copy of The Self-Confident Woman, after seeing Dorry's comments on it. She's at a very difficult spot right now, and still feels inhibited in coming before God to repent and ask forgiveness. Ironically, I have a pretty good idea of the spot she's in right now, because until a few weeks ago, I was in very much a similar spot.

I believe that she will reach the point where she can repent and ask God for His forgiveness, though I cannot say when that will happen. It took 4+ years for us to get to the point we're at now, and while it seems like a lifetime, in reality forward progress has only been going on for about 3 weeks.

Those of you who are inclined to (or have been) praying for us, you have my thanks. I ask that you continue to pray for us - I still have a firm and strong faith that our marriage will be restored and rebuilt.

There's a lot of [email]cr@p[/email] that we both have to deal with and get through, and we're just starting. I've come, through a lot of prayer, counsel and reflection, to realize that I played a much larger role in nearly destroying our marriage than I first thought a couple of months ago. I am not denying my wife's responsibility for her actions - I am merely stating that I recognize (at least some, if not all) of my issues and am committed to working on them.

brokenbird, I was just thinking about you this morning. Tell mp I will keep both of you in my prayers. Encourage her to come back here. We have a FWW thread we just started.

Hi bobpure -

First, I want to thank you for all the information you've compiled for BS on this site. My wife actually sent me a link to your toolkit just prior to Christmas. It has been very helpful to me (and to many others, I would venture to say).

I read the story you linked. There is indeed a valuable lesson in that, though I don't think that is the direction I am or was heading. First, I would never have allowed her to take our kids to visit the OM, nor would I have considered joining her on a vacation with him (had he not violated my trust and betrayed my friendship, I imagine that my wife and I may have spent time visiting him in the future, or him visiting us, though due to a situation he's currently in our kids wouldn't have been able to come with us).

If my wife had decided to continue on (past this trip) with the OM, then I would have looked at my options (such as separation and/or divorce, etc). She knows this - I told her, and I posted here as well, I believe, that when/if she came back, that was it. I would not tolerate anything further, with either the OM or someone else.

The ending of the story you shared is very sad, especially for the daughter. I can assure you that of all the things I might contemplate doing, suicide will never be one. I lost my mother almost 4 years ago to suicide - and we were estranged at the time. My mother's suicide is the point in our marriage where I turned into a bitter, angry man (because I did not deal with my grief and the guilt I felt in her death). I realize statistically I'm at a higher risk (especially since my mom's dad also committed suicide), but trust me - it's not an option for me. I will not orphan my son or my daughter. My daughter is the closest blood I have left (both parents are deceased), and I will not deprive her of her daddy.

I fully realize that a lot of people here think I'm appeasing my wife, or supplicating, or humilating myself. I disagree. I know my wife, and I know that there are times to push, and there are times to step back and let her find out for herself. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I do have a backbone. I also have a brain. My brain controls my backbone, not the other way around.

Over the last 3 weeks, I have done my best to follow God's will for my life. I believe that to be what I've stated before - to focus on making the changes in me that I need to make, to continue to love my wife, and to be there for her to the best of my ability. I also need to be there for our kids, as they stand the most to lose in this.

I have seen very real and very positive changes, in both myself and my wife, in the last 3 weeks since I really turned to God. Here's a prime example - when she told me that she was going to see the OM for 2 weeks to "say goodbye", she was absolutely adamant about it - even after our first MC session. Every time I tried to change her mind, it made her more resolved to go. When I backed off, gave it to God to deal with, and told Him I'd do what he asked of me and work on what He showed me to work on, I saw changes. In 4 days, she went from being PO'd at me and all ready to go no matter what, to waffling on whether to even go at all. She did go, but came back in 4 days - and about half of that time was spent at the airport (alone) or talking with me. I can guarantee you that if I had continued to push, she would have gone, had a blast, and probably spent the entire 2 weeks there, possibly longer.

As always, I welcome advice and comments. I do not, and never have said, that I will agree with everything or do everything people say I should. My guidance comes from God first, counsel and advisors second. And no, this is not some blind "God will fix everything" mantra. This is a decision, made by me on a daily basis, to trust fully in God in all matters of my life. And it's not easy. I have days where I doubt, days where I'm not even sure what to pray about, or if I'm even praying the right way, or doing the right thing. But everything I have seen, heard and felt in the last 3 weeks confirms to me that I am acting as God wants me to, despite the risk or illogic that it may appear to contain.

BB

Read my sig.

Beware using God as an excuse for cowardice. I tried that. Nearly killed me and almost lost my marriage. God REALLY strengthened my arm when I chose to FIGHT this demonic infidelity attack through prayer AND action.

All blessings.

bobpure -

I am fighting this through prayer and action. Maybe I'm just obstinate, or stupid, but I don't see where I'm not taking action. I do not believe I am using God as an excuse for cowardice, or anything else.

What action(s) am I taking?

I'm working on identifying and fixing the problems that I contributed to our marriage.

I'm strong enough now that I can actually function at work (I took 2 weeks off at the end of the year, and was non-functional for the better part of 2 weeks prior to that) - this is important because I'm the main provider for the family.

I am showing my wife that I love her, want her, and care for her in every way I can think of, especially the ones she identified that are important to her. I will continue to do this, even when it's met with little or no reaction (and some has been met with very positive reaction).

I am not, and will not, condone her actions or the affair. I am also not going to hammer her about it or throw it in her face.

I am praying over and for my wife, along with her, every day, throughout the day.

I have dropped as many walls as I can that stood between her and me. I am as open with her as I can be - and yes, that makes me vulnerable, but I'm willing to take the risk.

I am encouraging her in every good thing that she does (and there are many).

I am doing my best to row away from the rocks.

I have to admit, I'm somewhat lost and confused as to why so many people think I'm going about this the wrong way, or hiding behind God, or have no backbone, or whatever?

A lot has been posted on this thread, and my wife's. Would someone care to summarize, if possible, exactly what it is everyone thinks I'm doing wrong, and what I should be doing? The general sense I get is that I should have told her to go to the OM and not come back. What exactly would that have accomplished, with regards to saving this marriage? She went, she came back way early, the trip turned out to not be what she had planned at all, and we're genuinely trying to fix things.

So let's play the hypothetical. Let's go back to that dreary day in December when she told me about her plans. I tell her fine, go to the OM, but don't bother coming back. Then what? Hope she eventually decides I'm the better man and comes back in a month? 2 months? 6? A year? I guarantee you that she would have gone if I pushed, and if I pushed that hard she most likely would have stayed.

The 4 days she was gone was hard enough - not just on me, but on our kids as well. I do not know if I could have kept things together for months on end.

Maybe I'm weak. Maybe I'm a coward. I will admit that I do not want to lose my wife, or this marriage - I wouldn't be fighting this fight if I did. But I also believe that the course I am steering is the right course - for me, and for our marriage.

Answer me this, if you wish. She went, she came back. She went against my wishes. What have we lost, compared to what we might have lost if she went, stayed, got bored and came back? I honestly do not see what the difference is - this marriage has been ripped right down to its foundation, but now we have the opportunity to rebuild it the right way. Centered on Christ.

Is not one of the first steps to recovery for the affair to end? Is it not better for the affair to end sooner rather than later? Does everyone feel that it would have been better for my wife to go live with the OM for months and come home when/if she was truly repentent? Wouldn't it be better for her to come home, be with her kids, and work her way towards repentance without being involved in the affair? Repentance is repentance - it doesn't matter if it comes in the middle of the sin (as long as you stop the sin) or after.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, and I'm not mad (a little annoyed, yes, but not mad). I'm just trying to figure out why everybody seems so hung up on what I've done (or not done), and so disinterested in where I plan to go in the future.

Where do you plan to go in the future ?

More eating crow ? Changing YOU and accepting HER hoping it will make her see you in a different light ?

Or will you expose the affair to anyone important in OMs and her life to test the strength of its bonds and to help keep NC ?

Will you set boundaries for yourself ( such as NC for ever, total transparency of WW activities and efforts to keep you from further hurt) and make it clear to you WW that violation of such will require you remove yourself from that situation ?

Don;t settle for crumbs, BB. Please.

BOb Pure*,

I tried catching you on Alphin's thread. Could you chime in on "DRD's" thread? He's in England also and perhaps could use your familiarity with the legal system over there.

Sorry for the threadjack.

Mr. Wondering

Future (from what we have discussed): a marriage built on a strong foundation of trust and love, not fear nor obligation (which it was in a way). A marriage where both of us are getting our needs met and meeting each others needs.

1) Changing himself -- yes, a good thing because I was not/did not feel wanted, loved, safe, cherished, etc. I couldn't trust him emotionally.

2)Affair has been exposed, was exposed over a month ago, didn't have much effect on me. Our pastor, my best friends, my mother, etc. all were told. What HAS had an effect is my husband's prayer and the prayers of our friends and family.

OM lives in another state, this relationship is LD, so being exposed had absolutely no effect on him except losing my DH's friendship. He is already in divorce proceedings and even his friends knew that I was married and coming to visit him.

3) Boundaries bird will have to decide for himself, but I understand that he has the right to protect himself and he has at times in the last few weeks.

4) Define crumbs.

I'm not Bob Pure but Crumbs would be settling for anything less than.....


as you so elegantly defined it yourself.

Oh, and Lots of love thrown in for good measure - in otherwords, don't settle for anything less than the whole package.

BB you said that without moving your lips ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />