weneedhelp, Thanks for the cautions, really, I do need to be reminded to keep my guard up. I've trusted my H so much for so long, it's a little hard for me to see him as a liar, but that's what he's been for the last couple of months. I am planning on staying in control during our talk and letting him know I understand how this could happen, that he was getting admiration and ego stroking from her and that's something everyone needs. I will acknowlege that I've been lacking in that area and let him know I will change that.

The more I think about it, I do think if his dispatch won't agree to stopping his trips to that terminal, then he needs to look for another job. I'll try to 'suggest' this without being demanding, but I will stress that it's very important to me.

I just went back through the phone bills and definately see a pattern in the calls, from what I can see, the calls started around the 1st of October and steadily picked up in voume and by the end of the month had progressed to 20 -30 minute calls. That's not counting the incoming calls that I can't pinpoint. (the bill doesn't show the number of the incoming call)

So did I catch this in time or is it going to be worse because they were only 2 months into full-blown EA and it's still rather exciting I imagine.

Jean, we will just be going to my parents house to celebrate New Year's Eve with them and a few friends. I'm planning on NOT drinking that night, the last thing I need right now is to get tipsy and start drunken LB'ing all over the place. I'm interested to see how he will handle it too. I'm sure it will be emotional for us both.

I read your post and my heart broke. I know so how you feel as do many others. I recently discovered my husband was having an affair. It brought out emotions I had never even felt. The hard thing is you have so many different emotions during this time and can experience them all in a matter of hours. What a roller coaster! This site has been the most help for me. I often just read and not post and I still get so much from it. I wish I had pearls of wisdom for you but I did everything wrong and really set back progress. i still do not have concrete evidence. We are in a standstill right now. I will say though that the first few weeks are so so hard. It really does get a little better everyday. the initial shock just cuts to the bone. I do want to give a warning though and if i am off base someone will correct me. When I first found out I wanted to do everything to make it better. I did everything I could think of to "win him back". I did not have a problem with SF even initiated more than usual and was fine with things. Then it just hit me, the angry side of this and it has started to effect our progress again. I will say though that I feel part of the problem is he is still in denial and it may be that until he is honest about this I will not be able to let it go. This may sound weird but you were lucky to have the phone bills. Now he can not lie about that and everything that he can no longer deny is part of his recovery. Please just be cautious. They do get really sneaky and I would bet the percentage of people who had spouses with a secret phone is high.They are just so easy to get now with out a way to trace them easily. They are not very expensive either. I am so sorry you are going through this. There is nothing that compares to this hurt and extreme range of emotions. There are some very wise people on this site they help so much and more than anything you can see they know how you feel before you even have to say it. Even when you don't feel like posting, read, it helps to keep you focused and more logical. All the books are great and because they relate to you as if they were written just for you they are fast reads. My situation is not going very well but maybe soon there will be a turn for the better.

Thanks julie, this board really has been a Godsend.

There's something I've been debating bring up to H during our talk and I'd like to get opinions.

A couple of years ago I worked with a guy who transferred to another area. We were just causual friends when he worked at my office and we kept in touch by email. Eventually, our mails got a little flirty and more personal. We would talk about our spouses and offer each other advice. Before I knew it, I was thinking about this guy all the time and really looked forward to our mails everyday. He started telling me he had missed me over the weekend, thought about me all the time, etc. I realized that I was thinking about him way too much also, and knew no good would come from letting it go any further. It was a little hard at first to stop writing him, but I just rarely responded to his mails and totally stopped any 'miss you' crap. Evenutally, we stopped communicating all together and I moved along. I know this was the beginning of an emotional affair, but I also know that I stopped it as soon as I realized where it was heading.

I guess why I want to tell my H about this, is so I can let him know that I realize how we fall into this kind of relationship and about the addiction that follows..I didn't get into things enough with work guy to really have any withdrawal, but I had enough that I know it's for real.

So, should I bring this into our conversation or not? I don't want him to think I'm threatening revenge by bringing this guy up. I can still talk to him about the addictive quality of these relationships without telling my story (for now), but I want him to know I understand.

I dunno. Radical Honesty probably argues for telling him.

I had a close call with a one-night stand many years ago. Just recently I told WW about it, for the same reasons you gave. In our case I don't think it helped. May have done a bit of damage to our M. But not much in comparison with the damage done by WW's PA.

Not sure what to think in your case. It's not even clear whether your H's A was a PA or EA. I reread your posts, it sounds like you think it was an EA. But I wouldn't be sure about that. I think you said he is very remorseful? So maybe his sins are larger than you think. Would he be that remorseful and apologetic about an EA? Would he have been so secretive about an EA?

I got 'EA' 'EA' 'EA' from my WW for 4 or 5 months, then finally WW came clean and admitted it was a PA. No surprise; I was already pretty sure of that, just from the way she had been conducting herself and the high level of secrecy. (Plus I'd found condoms, new lingerie, etc.) You may want to consider that. And just because he says it was an EA doesn't mean that's the case.

Your decision to disclose your EA or not may depend on whether his was an EA or PA.

I so somewhat believe it was an EA with a PA very close to happening at least. He doesn't go to that terminal much at all, and I wish I could remember if he's been there besides a quick day trip recently. I do hope it wasn't a PA, because that's a whole new ballgame for me. I really have no way to prove either one way or another. I did look through the credit card bills, receipts, etc for the last few months and didnt' find anything unusual like hotel bill or something. I held my breath the whole time I was looking though.

{I think you said he is very remorseful? So maybe his sins are larger than you think. Would he be that remorseful and apologetic about an EA? Would he have been so secretive about an EA?}

He says that he's pissed at himself because he knew he was doing a stupid thing by calling her..and I do think he would be secretive about any A,,EA or PA...I don't know what to think. What gets me is that he called her from here on Thanksgiving and Christmas, so that rules out only talking to her when he was lonely in the truck. He also called her twice on our daughters birthday, but 'forgot' to call our D and wish her a happy one. Nice..

{Your decision to disclose your EA or not may depend on whether his was an EA or PA.}

I don't consider my situation an EA...very very close to one yes, but there were no phone calls and no lovey dovey, claims of being soulmates etc. I just got close enough to know it can happen, and I'm real glad I stopped it when I did. BTW, H does know that I used to email with this guy, but never asked why I stopped hearing from him..

I think you'll find out eventually, these things have a way of coming out in the wash. You may want to tell WH that you're convinced it was physical. And to prepare yourself for a possible shock down the road.

I don't have an answer to your question. But I believe in Radical Honesty and the firm foundation it provides.

It sounds as if you've already disclosed most of it. If you were to finish telling WH your story it would give you a good strong moral position from which to start the many discussions you will be having. If you don't finish telling your story you will always have it in the back of your mind that you've not been completely honest, making it harder for you to press for complete honesty from your WH. You have nothing else to disclose?

No, there's nothing else to disclose..I hadn't even thought about the email situation for over a year until this mess happened. I wish he would have stopped like his conscious was telling him too.

It is definately an EA at the least.
I'm sorry, but you don't call your casual friends on Thanksgiving and Christmas. Especially when he had to hide from you to do it.

womanoffaith, I agree, and he doesn't deny an EA..he did try to put all the blame on her at first...'that she is just a friend, I'm sure she wanted it to be more, but I love YOU' and when I mentioned all the calls, he said...she called ME...I said..NO, she may have called you, but you called her A LOT. Even on our daughters birthday, when you claimed to have been sooooo busy, you didn't get a chance to call her and wish her a happy birthday. He shut up then...

OMG, this rollercoaster SUCKS...I just called him to tell him something about a road closing that I thought he needed to know about and he didn't answer...welcome back panic attack...I left him a message and couldn't help keeping the emotion out of my voice. Told him to call me back when he was done doing whatever it was he was doing...

he did call me back within 10 minutes with a plausible excuse..he was collecting paperwork where he was...but MY GOD, am I going to have to live like this for how long?????..I hate him right now for doing this to us, and I'm a little disgusted that he hasn't been more comforting than he has...I have told him I loved him first almost every time we've talked. This last time, I was about to LB big time if he didn't say it first and tell him if I had done what he did, I would be making SURE he knew he was the one I loved. Good thing he did say it first this time, or I probably would have freaked..

Had my first panic attack and crying jag of the day over something so small...did I mention that this SUCKS!

The panic attacks are horrible. We all agree. I would seriously consider calling your Dr right away to start on anti d's. It will help to calm down the panic attacks. you need to be able to think a little more clearly.

Do you have anyone to talk to yet? I know you would like to keep this secret, but you need support. Do you have a close friend? A sister? Someone who can be supportive and non-judgemental? A minister?

The roller coaster will last for a long time, I am sorry to say.

Also - start a journal. that is so helpful.
Make a list of questions you would like to ask him. that way, you will have a chance to think about what you really want to say to him. Right now you have a million thoughts going through your mind and when he calls you feel like you want answers, NOW. when he calls, you try to keep the converstaion light, but you start to panic becuase you know there are things you want to say, and yet you don't get to. Write all that stuff down, so that your mind will be able to relax a little and say "Ok, I am not going to bring this up now, but it is not going to be ignored forever. I will eventually get my chance"

And get to reading! If your local store doesn't have the right books, find another store. You need to be well informed before you have "the talk" with him.

Hey there,
Just checking on you.

Girl, it is a rollercoaster. I so understand. Yes, everytime for a long time that you do not get an answer you will freak. Mine finally realized it so he will answer even with just a 'call you right back' that really helps.


Maybe he is home with you right now and you won't see this. If so, just know you are beng thought about.

Blessings

I had a panic attack today for the first time in a few days, maybe even a week. It just hits you when you are unsure about their "where about's" for lack of a better word.

I also wanted to respond to whether or not you should tell your H about the email correspondence. I think most of us have been in a place in our lives where there has been an opportunity for a friendship etc. to go to far. The difference in us and those who betray us is we get the uncomfortable feeling that tells us to RUN and we RUN, they got that same feeling and decided to stay. I told my husband that I understood how it could happen and would forgive him if he would tell me what had happened and get Mc. He refused MC and it didn't seem to matter if I understood or not.

I think I just F'd up and I feel like I'm losing it right now...H and I just had a conversation on the phone (he's at his last stop and then will be home in a few hours)...I asked him if he thinks I should quit my second job..that I had thought that I was helping out the family with money, but after looking at the phone records, it seems like all I was doing was giving him more time to talk to his girlfriend...
I asked him if she had ever asked or expected him to leave me for her, and he said she never said anyhing like that...I then asked him if he ever considered leaving me during all of this and he said...I wouldn't do that to the kids!..I was like, just for the kids???..what about me...he said 'I meant all of you'..oh man, that hurt...

oh and he went from...'none of this is your fault' to..you've been so wrapped up in the kid's lives ..I said. 'so that's your reasoning for what you did?'...he's like..no, but I don't want to talk about this over the phone, I'd rather wait till we're in person...

Guys, I need some guidance on what I should do/say tomorrow when he's here...he will only be here till the evening and then has to go back out till Friday evening. Should be getting home around 2 a.m or so, so I don't know what kind of conversations we're going to have before he leaves again...
It's so hard to get him to talk about his feelings...it scared me so much when he said he didn't leave because of the kids...such a turn around from the beginning when he said he didn't go further because he loved me...
do you think withdrawal would be setting in so soon?? I did tell him that I understood about the addiction and told him about my experience with the guy from work...he seemed to be jealous of that confession and asked me why I never told him about this before, I said because I ended it before it became something that needed confessing to...I told him that if I had done what he had done, I would be so happy that he didn't hate me that I would make sure he knew that I was committed to him and only him....
He is so hard to talk to about anything emotional...keeps saying that he would like to do this in person....I'm scared about how that will end up...

I need to go to bed now, I'm drained and rambling...Thank God you guys are here to listen....

Remember, I failed at MB 101, so take anything I say with that in mind. But, hopefully, I may have learned something from my failure.

Hopefully, your WH is going to help you, but, he probably can't do it right now. He may be shocked at himself, embarassed, feeling pretty low, plus (this part stinks) he may be missing the OW. If they were talking alot on the phone, he is going to mourn that or go through the withdrawals.

Vent here, take a drive and scream in the car, but try, try to not bombard your WH in his brief time home. He needs to associate you with good stuff. If your phone calls are always A related (and it doesn't sound like they have been so far) and every time he does come home, you want to dissect what happened, he may start to associate wife=uncomfortable.

In my case, I wanted it all out in the open and cleaned up real fast, his A was very inconveinent to my nice little life - I wanted the whole thing figured out and filed away.

Just be easy, if he has any comfort to give you, take it and let him know how much it is appreciated. But he may have absolutely nothing to offer you right now. I have been a WW also, and I was pretty zombiefied at one point after I stopped the A.

I frantically tried to understand what had happened so I could prevent a reoccurance of my WH's affair. It got to be too much for him and he left. You are so lucky to have found this place quickly.

He needs to look forward to coming home to you, he needs to leave for the road full of good feelings for you, he needs to smile when he sees your name on his caller ID. The answers you need will come, if he stays away from OW and he knows that you and he can heal.

I pray that you will be able to rest. this can really take a toll on you. Take care of you. It will all come out. Just be patient. I need to hear that myself.

This_hurts:

I know the shock you are going through right now and I know how you feel totally violated. A couple of thoughts. You learned how easy it was to get emotionally attached to someone and how you felt about the OM and you learned how it became somewhat addicting so you have some reference to how it started with your WH. That should be easier to forgive him because he likely didn't start this thing off planning on falling for this woman.

For your WH to even say, I didn't leave you for her because of the kids, it means he likely has loving feelings for her too, as mine did for her OM.

It does not mean they had sex, but don't exclude that possibility based on him coming clean the first time around. Make him talk DETAILS. That will tell you so much. Use your phone records and make him account for the calls. What they talked about, where they met, how many lunches did they have, after work meetings, etc. You must expect two people with strong feelings meeting at lunch or after.

As you recall different times that he came home late from work, check the calls and see if he had conversations with her on those days and try and piece the last couple of months together like a police detective would. Things fall into place when you can do that. All though, you won't like the picture like the holiday calls. Mine did the same thing. She ran to the store to pick up an item we needed for a meal and she would make a 30 minute call to her lover, I would find out later.

If he avoids things, don't let up. I predict the EA is not over so WD hasn't started yet. It took my WW 3 months to quit seeing and talking to her OM after she was busted on DD. When they fall in love, they experience that same loving feeling they felt with their spouse years ago. Remember those days, you can't wait to talk and see them. Years of stale and everyday marriage, life becomes boring and when someone comes along and makes you feel like a million bucks, it moves you like your co-worker moved you. You didn't act on your little deal and hopefully your WH didn't act on his or consumate the feelings for the OM.

Remember, the truth is in the detail and he remembers almost every conversation and time he talked to his OW. Hopefully, this is a wake up call for him and you both and you can learn from this and rebuild.

I think you can tell him you understand how things like this happen from your own story, but clarify the time lines and that you ended it because it became secretive and flirtatious. That may help him come clean. Hopefully, he didn't cross over to the PA because they become tougher to break since sex can be bonding.

TooSoon

Plan A doesn't say sweep the A under the rug, but neither does it say harangue him with demands for detail (from your postings I wouldn't think you are built that way anyway). Jean36 and TooSoon are both wise and experienced. It's difficult to do both - laying off a bit as Jean said and also seeking detail as TooSoon said - but that's what you need to do, for your WH, yourself and your M.

Could be a sort of delicate balancing act, and only you know your WH well enough to know the right balance. I guess at the beginning, maybe 75%(?) of the conversations might consist of you giving your love and devotion to your WH, while lightly seeking detail and gently but firmly saying what you cannot tolerate in your M. And always being alert to when you need to give him some space.

You seem reasonable and I know you can handle it well, so long as you keep yourself under control. And your WH sounds like a fairly reasonable guy (right?) so he could also handle the talk well.

Just thinking out loud here..Would it make sense to start with an overview? Maybe just a sentence or two saying 'I still care about you and I want you to know how important you are to me. Because I value our M so highly I need to have complete openness and honesty from you about this'. Also "the road's a little rough here, can we please be really careful with how we talk to each other tonight?" Or something like that. Before actually getting down to the details. And every couple of sentences through the talk, loop back on that theme; how much you care for him and how much you value your M.

If you can work it out, maybe two or three short conversations instead of one long one. You don't want to press either yourself or your WH to the point you are emotionally wound up and ready to explode.