He left here an hour and a half ago and has called me twice, once just to say hi...at least it seems like he left here feeling good about things..I wish I could say the same...

Hi this_hrts,

I think you have collected some good advisors here. I think they are all ladies who have been through the same thing. (I'm a guy).

One thing that somebody mentioned, but needs to be repeated :
He knows how you found out, and he's smart enough not to call her on that cell again. But... there are other phones in the world - millions of them. There are land lines, pay phones (still a few left), and other cell phones. You can never prove NC - unless you are with him 24/7 - and even then you have to sleep sometime. My point is that you should not get too comfortable, not let your guard down.

Also, there is the issue of STD's.

If, as seems likely, there was a PA, and if, as seems likely, this is not the first time this woman has done this, there is a significant chance that your H was exposed to STD's. You need to think carefully about this and about whether you are willing to take the risk to do what you have been doing. It is reasonable to ask your H to be tested.

There are other threads on this subject around here - and you can always post a new thread and ask for LemonMan (who is a doctor) to get a professional point of view.

I really would recommend that you call her - if only to tell her that he is married (which she may not know), and has children (expecting to be $ent to college) and even that you enjoyed a lovely time with him this past day being man and wife. It is often the case that a WS lies to the OP. She might even be married (even though he told you she isn't) - and you might get a chance to inform her H. Exposure is the standard recommendation around here - and the OP's spouse is the first place to start. Don't THREATEN to expose. Just DO IT.

-AD

This_Hurts:

I think you are being niave' for assuming that you WH is being completely straightforward with you. The number 1 most common trait of a WS, man or woman, is they lie to protect their relationship with their lover. My FWW did the same thing and I was married for over 20 years. The WS's get so deep in love they are blinded by the fog. I think you owe it to yourself to learn the details even though it will cause you great pain. You must learn what you are up against. Most BS's fear losing their spouse so they hide from it. I know I did, but all the things I said and all the things she said did not stop the contact between them.

So many people get 2nd cell phones after they are caught and so many people find new angles to keep the affair alive. Can you imagine walking away from your husband after you fell madly in love with him without a fight? That may be what you are asking of the OW and your husband. He might say he will walk but the OW might say, "What about us? What about our dreams, etc?

Initial SF is common after DD but reality is, you cannot function the minute he walks out the door because your 6th sense is telling you something. You know you need the truth and the facts of the case to come out. Dr. Harley says you both need to be redically honest to have a marriage. That does not begin with brushing this under the rug. I am sorry to tell you this. Continue reading everything about affairs and you will learn this too.

I know you want it to just go away but I am sorry for you because I wanted that too in my marriage but it doesn't work that way. Love, chemistry, and fog, with our without sex, makes it hard for the lovers to want to stop pursuing each other regardless of the pain they cause to their BS's.

Ministers leave their churches and their spouses for the lady choir director. doctors leave their wifes for the pretty nurse, and I don't want to hurt you, but truckers leave their lovely spouses for terminal ladies if the BS doesn't take the appropriate steps to disrupt and break the affair. I know I am coming across a little hard and straightforward and lack the fluff but this stuff is real and marriages are lost daily for the same reason.

You must do all the right steps to protect your marriage and to assume to save your very damaged marriage.

TooSoon

Hi This Hurts,

I have been reading your posts and I think the advice eveyone is giving you here is wonderful.

I am a newbie and really can not advise you on what to do because I am still trying to figure it all out myself.

I do know that each marriage is different and you know your husband best but......don't walk on eggshells and not get the information you need because you do not want to make waves. Take everyone's advise and ask all the questions you need to ask. He OWES that to you and your marriage. Like someone said sometimes the truth is so much less glamorous then the thoughts you are thinking daily it is a relief to find out. ( If he is honest with his answers)
I would definately continue to be on guard about NC. Phone cards, telephone booths, another cell phone are all possibilities. He is NOT a stupid man and it would be really dumb to contact her with his cell you can access. Such is my case so........ I am constantly snooping in his truck when I can and on the lookout for any strange behavior.

Good Luck, keep posting and take care of yourself!

I think the sad thing is you pretty much have to hear everything that the ws says as a possible lie. Even little things that would seem insignificant. As was mentioned either here or in another thread, the OW/M lies about everything as well. When I confronted the OW about my husband giving her money she said "NO! he never gave me anything. At Christmas he only gave me a card and on Valentines Day, nothing" Well, she lied about him giving her a card which dosn't seem like that big of a deal except that he NEVER gives cards and so I knew that was to try to down play whatever he did give her. She had no idea how "big" that "little" lie was. I am finding that I receive more info by doing what everyone keeps telling me and that is to stick to plan A and be observant and none confrontational to H. I am going to contact OW BF in the next week. I will be out of town for several days and when I get back i am contacting him. I don't look forward to this at all. The truth cuts like a knife but it seems to always finally come and after the initial hurt things began to clear. I guess I have to tell you tough that I am not one of the ones with a success story. Not just yet anyway. And things don't look really hopeful so take what I say with a grain of salt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well, it's another day and I even managed to get to work today..didn't even forget to put on some makeup...that's something...

H is on his way back home..he'll need to sleep when he gets home, but by the time I get home from work, he should be up and we're both looking forward to going to dinner and spending the evening together...I'm still feeling up and down, but I'm learning to ride out the feelings instead of giving into every emotion that swings by..

I want every single person who responded with support and advice to know that I read and process through each and every word posted to me. You can all sleep tonight knowing that you helped someone get through the hardest time of her life.

That said, after talking to a wonderful MB lady until late last night (ty moveforward), I've decided that at this point going after OW like a pittbull will not help with what I'm trying to accomplish, and that is saving my M. I know a lot of you think I'm being niave by thinking he won't contact the OW despite what he's said, and I agree that if he wants to, there are a million ways he could contact her. In my heart I believe that he is sincerely trying though, I can't follow him around every minute and I can't live with a constant knot in my stomach worrying about him calling her. And truthfully, if he is still talking to her..if he can look me in the eyes while making love to me and tell me he loves only me and that he is sincerely sorry for what he did and it's over..if he can do that and then turn around and have contact with her,,then he's not even close to the man that I want to be married too.

So I will continue to gather what facts I can about the OW. I will be super-vigilant watching for contact, and I will continue to make the changes that I need to make to fill his needs. In the process, hopefully he will learn more about my needs and how to fill them better also. He seems willing to do this, I will try to be patient and strong but will stress that any contact with her at all is a boundery that I will not compromise on. I'm planning on getting out the His Needs, Her Needs questionaires at some point tonite and ask him to fill them out with me. He's not much of a reader, but I'm going to find a few important paragraphs that I think will get through to him and read them to him. He's going to hate it I'm sure...but one of the things that I think got us to where we are is his inablity to discuss feelings and needs and such. We're going to try to work on that first and foremost. I can't know what he's missing if he doesn't tell me.

I don't know what to do about getting him to admit if it was a PA. Based on my gut, I do believe there had to be at least some physical contact that got this started. Maybe not sex, but something. I don't think he'll ever willingly admit to this though. He knows that would be a whole different ballgame for me, and he knows it will hurt me beyond comprehension. I'm not going to call and ask the OW, because I have no doubt she will lie too. Not sure what else to do about finding out how far it really went, but you can be sure when I go to my ob-gyn appt next month, I will tell her I want tested. So long to the good old days when I could say no when she asked me if there was any reason to run std tests...pretty thing affairs do.

I know he's looking forward to spending time with me this evening, so I think I'm going to go light on the A talk and focus more on OUR relationship. I will tell him that if there's anything that he hasn't told me that might come out later, he needs to tell me now. I'm already hurting enough and getting over it is going to be hard, but I can't handle being blindsided again with information that he's left out or lied about. He keeps insisting that she is not going to call him anymore and seems to think that his phone call to her to end it was enough to keep her away. I'm going to tell him that if there has been one thing I've learned from this, it's that you can never really be sure of what another person is capable of doing, and if she gets to hurting about him ending it with her (which I'm sure she will/is) and goes fatal attraction on him, she just may contact me with information she knows he will withhold from me. I'm going to tell him to think hard about that and come clean now with anything she might reveal. If that happens, it will destroy all the effort we are putting into fixing this and I won't guarantee that it wont' be a dealbreaker for me.

That's about all I can wrap my mind around at the moment, just want to take it one day at a time and watch his actions, so far he's been great about calling me, and connecting with me and seems to understand why I need him to do that. He'll be home for the long weekend and so will I except for a few hours of work on Saturday. I'm going to use the time to learn more about him and trying to meet every need of his that I can.

Sorry for another monster post, but this board has turned not only into my lifeline, but my journal..it helps to sort out my heart and mind here in print...Thanks to all...God Bless

That was a nice post this_hurts. If you can write that, you must be doing pretty well given the circumstances. I'm glad you are able to keep your attitude up.

HNHN seems worth a try. We also tried it soon after DDay. In our case, neither WW nor myself was in a frame of mind to use it successfully. Sounds like you and your WH are in a better place than we were, so hopefully it will work really well for you. I'll just mention my brother and his longtime gf are working through it (no A involved) and getting a lot out of it. Good luck!

Suppose you were to tell WH that you will get tested for STDs because your health or life could be at stake. Could that prompt him to think again and either admit it was physical, or give you a firm denial that you feel you can rely on? (Regardless of his response, I agree with your decision to get tested!)

weneedhelp,
I think telling H Im getting tested despite his claims that there was no physical is a great idea. Of course, if he has had sex with her, I'm sure he thinks 'she's not like that' and doesn't have any diseases...but it could get him thinking and maybe I will be able to tell by his reaction if he has more to hide than he claims...

I agree that this is a good idea.

-AD

Sorry to be dumb; are there STD tests for men? Perhaps if you were to show your compassion by suggesting that he get tested as well?

WNH,

Of course there are STD tests for men, but she can't force him to submit to them - and he is denying a PA. I don't know what she should do, but I think this approach might get him thinking - and if it was or is a PA, she'll probably get a reaction of him.

-AD

Just checking to see how you are doing this_hurts. I hope you had a good weekend.

Hi Jean and thanks for thinking about me...
I think things went really well this weekend, I know he went back to work this morning feeling good about us..I know there was no contact with her, and I do truly believe that he isn't 'planning' on contacting her. HE still insists that she won't call him because he told her not too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

After we talked about 'them' about as much as either of us could take, we decided that the focus from here on out will be 'us' and agreed that we need to do work to make sure this doesn't happen again...to either of us. I've read His Needs Her Needs and sent the book along with him today when he went back out on the road. I marked parts that he really needs to read in order to fill out the questionaire. I'm afraid if I try to get him to read the book cover to cover, he's going to zone out and just not going to get much out of it and it would take forever as he only has so much time to read when he's out on the road. I ask him to read and fill out the questionaire, I will fill out one, and then we will go over them this weekend. He's been surprisingly receptive to doing this...I say 'surprising' because he really really hates to talk relationship stuff, and I think he is embarrassed about what he did and would just like it to go away. I told him this is our only chance to fix this, because there are no second chances with my heart..he does this again and that's all she wrote.

Still insists on no PA, I'm not sure what I think about that...but when we were getting ready for bed last night I had to smile when I saw the tattoo he has of my name sprawled across his chest...if there was enough PA that she saw it...I hope it made her feel like the ****** she is...oops, that slipped out...

I've been following your advice and not slamming on her (much)..I did notice that when we were talking about her and I was trying to tell him that she's going to try to call him at some point, he would say things like..no, I don't think she's that kind of person, etc...I just wanted to go off on what kind of a person pursues and/or participates in a relationship with a married man,,especially if he's telling the truth and she knew that he wasn't planning on leaving me...can we say 'loser'?....I kept most of my comments about her to myself though, ..

you guys have all really helped me a lot...I think he is surprised at how well I've handled myself through this, and I think that has helped us a lot. I know he wouldn't respond well to hysterics or vengence, so far he has shown no signs of backsliding and has been nothing but wonderful to me...I am praying it lasts...

I am so glad to hear that things are going well for you. Great job on not dogging the OW. That is great that he is willing to do the EN survey, and kudos to you for not expecting him to read the book cover to cover right now.

It sounds like you are on the right track. I am tickled for you.

You are doing great. Keep it up.

this_hrts1000xa0

Been reading and can't really add a whole lot other than keep up the good work. You seem to be doing well. I will check in later and for sure be praying for you.

God's speed. You have many wise friends here already working for you.

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm still struggling with the triggers...like when I called him at lunchtime today and his phone went straight to voicemail and the message said he was on the phone...omg..what a horrible feeling. Even though I know he's not stupid enough to call her from his cell, I freaked a bit..as I was leaving him a message, the house phone was ringing and he was calling me asking me why I wasn't answering my cell. Seems he was trying to call me at the same time, even showed me his call records (which he hasn't been deleting like before)..we kind of laughed about it, but it was a bad feeling. I truly don't know how anyone can handle the pain of continued contact between the WS and the OP...I' know I certainly wouldn't have that kind of strength..God Bless all of you who do..

Does anyone know if there's an average time period when the withdrawal really kicks in for the WS and they give into contacting the OP? It's been a week so far and he really doesn't seem depressed or withdrawn. I'm trying my hardest to keep making deposits in his 'love bank' so he has no reason to miss her, but in the back of my mind I still wonder if I'm going to get blind-sided...

When a wandering spouse says; "there was no sex" .... take that with a Clinton-sized grain of salt ...

Get STD tested and tell your H that you'd appreciate his getting tested too "Just to put my mind at ease." .... watch his reaction .... if he is MORE interested in putting your mind at ease and he is not defending ~why~ he does not need testing, that is a good sign

I don't think you'll be seeing any withdrawl in your husband. i don't think he was ever in love with OW. She was likely an "add-on" woman .... just a little something extra on the side, never intended to replace the main meal, you.

Having said that, I completely disregard your H's claims of no PA ... they all say that.

only friends>> good friends>> went too far>> it was just talking>> it was just hand holding>> it was just kissing>> only touched her breasts one time>> only dry humping>> only oral>> etc etc etc ..... and so on and so on.... Once they do the initial denial, they feel they MUST defend against the ugly fact of how far they fell and lowered their integrity.... keep snooping .... you need to know about this woman ... she may be "in love" .... and that spells BIG problems ... especially if she feels she was "used and dumped".

There is an issue of integrity here ... and eventually it will need discussion .... your H USED another female for his personal pleasure, and showed disregard for HER well-being too. This is a character issue that ought not be swept under the rug ... but it is indeed an important issue to be discussed LATER, when the shock has worn off some.

hang in there, you're doing just grand

I did tell him during our 'talk' that I think when I go to my OBGYN appt next month I will be getting the std tests this time. He just kind of looked at me and said, well you didn't get anything from me, I told you I didn't have sex with her. Hmmm, I said, I just find it hard to believe that you can get into such a 'frequent' caller relationship without any physical contact at least in the beginning. He said, it never went that far! She never said she loved me, Idon't love her, it was never physical...although it was probably heading that way....oh great...He didn't say it straight up, but I think he was telling me they had phone sex and talked about doing it a lot...ick, yuck, puke...nasty...

As far as snooping, I've been trying to find out as much as I can with the info I have. I can see from the phone records that they really increased A Lot around the end of October and the beginning of November. I even thought enough to look at his old log books to see how often he was in that city. Not so much in October, only once in December, and for some reason I can't find his November log...yeah, I found that interesting too...I will be looking for it though, he might still have it in his truck.

I think the truth will come out eventually, but in the meantime I will be snooping to the best of my ability. I did call the terminal today, they have a voice mail system that allows you to browse the company directory by just entering the first letter of the last name of the person, I hit every letter on the phone pad and nobody with her first name came up on it. Maybe she's the janitor or something...

I do have an aquaintance that has connections to the company, I dont' know her really well enough to be comfortable telling her this situation, but if I don't find something more soon, I will find a way to ask her to do some checking for me...I will be ready if/when she cracks and tries to contact him.