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Cherished, I know that the 15 hours per week thing is your hill to die on... But there were many other hills that were worth dying on in this relationship with your husband.

I don't give a rip if my husband spends 15 hours with me - he cares more that I spend time with him - it's a matter of the one who has the most to lose by the relationship going south - and the tables turned for me 10 years ago this coming April, when my hill to die on became loud and clear to him; I would no longer tolerate disrespect; I moved out, lived in a shelter, then came home and moved him into the basement, with a minister enforcing the separation to keep me safe. I filled out the paper work for a divorce; I served him with a notice to attend a parents divorcing class required... he woke up. He hasn't had control of the relationship since. And he's happy with that.

I'm hoping very much that Waiting finds a hill to die on that is much more substantial than 15 hours per week.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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Another thing -

You really should get tested for STD's. Sorry for the ugly reminder...

Em

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(((W2W)))
Its great he is admitting to something but it doesn't change anything. Stick to your plan. Install your boundaries. Talk is cheap. He needs to prove by his actions, he has spent 4 years of your life trying to decieve you. You don't need to make long term decisions right away. You don't have to accept what he is saying and forgive him...you don't have to kick him to the curb if you don't want to. Right now you are in control. Take your time. and take care.


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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WTW,
Best of luck to you tonight. Hope you are doing well.....

{{{{{{{WTW}}}}}}}}

Daisy


Me: 30 WH: 29 WH: left May 8th, 2005 Now: no contact with WH since 07/02/2006 Ark on Plan A plan a tips and musings...get grounded here betrayed spouses...............JUST BE STILL...........
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KaylaAndy,
Yes, 15 hours is my hill to die on. Basically, Harley's program boils down to 15 hours and POJA. I don't want a marriage where I'm in control. I want a marriage where both of us are happy. It seems to me that willingtowait took the same path that I did starting in 1998, which was to wait -- to tolerate neglect and wait for him to change. It seems that she has a golden opportunity today, despite the devastation, to entertain the possibility that her WH is now just so sick and tired of the life he has been leading and the woman he has been carrying on an affair with that he'd like to make a clean break and become the H she has wanted all along. The key is for her no longer to be willing to wait.

Cherished

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Abuse is more potent a destroyer than neglect. You survived the abuse. Now he's going for the slow kill. You gave him the cues to do this - 15 hours is not going to stop him from going back to the abuse.

There is a more effective way than "needing" 15 hours a week attention from your husband - any kind of attention... you'll tolerate abusive attention. You'll tolerate neglectful attention, as long as that attention adds up to 15 hours per week. That's just so wrong!

Tom's never going to come around this way. But he might if you no longer wanted or needed his negative attention. That you required kindness and courtship, or he could move out right now.

But that would take conflict - and CAs usually get negative attention.

Cherished - I cringe when you give others this 15 hours a week advice, based on what you are tolerating in your 15 hours... Please re-think that there are rewards for stepping into conflict that you will not experience with this method you are using to finally kill your marriage.

Waiting - deal with the abuse. The disrespect. Before you require his time.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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KaylaAndy,

I hear you about my giving advice without this approach actually working yet for me. I did try the approach of focusing on only having enjoyable time together, and we never went anywhere with the amount of time. I have gone to a therapist over 100 times since the affair began, the fourth time being the morning he broke my arm. She had told me not to call Sophia's husband. She basically said, "Find out what track he is on. Don't try to get him on the right track. Then decide what you are going to do."

After one entire year of trying to make our time together enjoyable with not much time together, he did something so heartless that I decided I had to change what I was doing --an ultimatum, or divorce. When I went back to the therapist last week, she told me she thought that the ultimatum was appropriate. Her view all along is that Tom has wanted to remain married but in a marriage of convenience and that the 15 hour demand eliminates that option. Time will tell if we can make the time together enjoyable.

Now, with regard to willingtowait, I feel so much for her because, from the time he cracked my skull on 1/3/98 until he was openly talking about lunching with this woman and she was saying things like that sleeping with her husband was better because of him and I started down the path of angry outbursts, demands that he not have contact with her, and trying to catch him in an affair, I was doing what willingtowait seems to have been doing. I was doing my best to make our marriage work, accepting disregard ("Leave me alone"), and getting nowhere.

Willingtowait, I have so, so much empathy for you because you did what you thought was best and your husband took advantage of your willingness to wait and trust to carry on an affair with little interference. Whatever you do, know that this time will be a time that you will look back on as about the worst if not the worst of your life and that, whatever the future holds, divorce or not, it will be better.

Cherished

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Thanks to everyone for your prayers. I know that they are helping me to deal with this.

In short, WH and I talked for hours last night. He seems genuinely ready to try and put things back together, but I told him that at this point, his words don’t mean anything to me. I don’t know that I have any feelings left to build upon. I told him that I have an attorney and was planning to file for divorce this week. He asked me not to – said he wants to try MC first. He said he would quit his job now if that is what I wanted. He said, otherwise, he would put in for a transfer to another school at the end of this year.

I don’t know what I feel……. I want my family to stay together for the sake of my kids. But, I will not stay in a relationship that is not fulfilling for me. I don’t know if this relationship can be what I need anymore.

WH called MC and got us an appt for today at 5pm. I’ll go – but I am apprehensive about it. I have just gotten to the point that I accepted it was over and I moved on emotionally. I am not sure that I am ready to do the work anymore.

I know that sounds selfish and I hate it. But, the reality is that is how I feel.

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No, it is not selfish at all. Sometimes the resentment is so great that the marriage is unrecoverable, WW. You have to deal with more than the garden variety affair, you have to deal with multiple D-Days coupled with years of lies upon lies and neglect. Only YOU know what you can deal with, WW, but you are not selfish and you are not obliged to stay.

I would just suggest that you take it very slow and don't make any decisions right now. You have plenty of time.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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In short, WH and I talked for hours last night. He seems genuinely ready to try and put things back together, but I told him that at this point, his words don’t mean anything to me. .

Did he admit his affair?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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RIGHT NOW ALL THE WORK SHOULD BE ON HIM....SIT BACK AND SEE, BY HIS ACTIONS, HOW SERIOUS HE IS. you have time.....


what we do in life......echoes in eternity!
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Oh, yes he admitted it. Said over and over how sorry he way. Told me anything I wanted to know. Said he knows it was a mistake and he doesn't know what to do to fix it - but that he'll do anything. Said he loves me and he wants to work on the marriage because he wants things between us to be whole and happy. He said he hates the person that he has allowed himself to become and that he is horrified about how he has treated me for the past 4 years. Said he is embarassed, ashamed, and he just wants me to give him a chance to change things.

I don't know if I want to. I am ready to be done with all this and move on.

But, I also want to provide my children with a firm family foundation. My OS drew a picture yesterday of our whole family together - how can I deny him the chance for that?

I am still sick to my stomach today.

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It sounds like he is sincere. Only you know if you are trully done.

I am here to tell you that with the attitude he now has you both have a shot at finally having a happy marriage, better than before the A ever happened. It won't be easy but I believe it would be worth it. To have the rest of your lives together and to see your children grow up, marry, and eventually have grandchildren together. Your love and most of the trust can be restored. It took my H a long time.

I think if you put in a call to Steve Harley or his sister, Jennifer Chalmers, that they can help your see whether or not this is the real thing and can be salvaged. Then help with a plan for recovery if you that is the direction you choose.

I know that this is a difficult time and a shot to your pride should you capitulate now and stall the DV. It is worth it for your family and a potential to have the marriage of your dreams with the father of your children.


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Ok

what , if anything, was said about the GPS proof you have?

Does he KNOW you have GPS or not? (hoping he does not know)

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I would have him call OW and with both of you on the phone, he gives her the "goodbye don't ever call me" speach.

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What difference does the GPS proof make now? He admitted the A. I hope she didn't divulge that info at this point. Really, I don't know if she needs to tell him about that for years or ever. But if he did read here he knows about it anyway.


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this man needs a plan....have him call steve harley asap!


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But, I also want to provide my children with a firm family foundation. My OS drew a picture yesterday of our whole family together - how can I deny him the chance for that?

WW, 2 married people living under the same roof is not necessarly a 'firm family foundation'. You cannot give that IF you are not happy, don't want to be with your partner, don't trust him, resent him, etc.

It is not possible. Your kids will see it. The pain you will inflict on them over the years will be great. Staying together for the sake of the kids is NOT a marriage.

You don't have to make that sacrifice. They will survive it.

I am not telling you to D. Just don't stay in for the kids, that is no way to live your life. Your kids will survive a D. They will not want to live with the knowledge that their mother sacrificed her happiness (year and year of it) for them.



Daisy


Me: 30 WH: 29 WH: left May 8th, 2005 Now: no contact with WH since 07/02/2006 Ark on Plan A plan a tips and musings...get grounded here betrayed spouses...............JUST BE STILL...........
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He does not know about the GPS. He actually seemed suprised that I already knew....... He thinks that he really took a chance by telling me about the A. I told him several times that I already knew before he told me..... I think in his emotional state, he never thought to ask me HOW I knew. At this point, that doesn't matter.

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Some A's take 4 yrs to run their course instead of the average of 2.

Why should she give up now that he may have finally seen the light?

Once she is sure that this is real then at some point she will need to forgive him and not harbor the resentment that can destroy their happiness. If she is unwilling to get to that point then she may as well DV because she may just grow into an old and bitter woman.

I think she will need to follow this and see where it leads. If it is false, she will find him out in time and that will be the end. Why now, when there can be hope for the marriage she's been hoping for these last four years. Believe me, I know, I've been there where I was close to done and then my H was willing to do all the work, take all the actions necessary for me to rebuild my trust in him and our marriage.

It sounds like your H, W2W, is at that point. Do you think it is just that he knows he will be losing a meal ticket? Do you really think he just wants to play you like a fool? Is that why he called a counselor? I doubt it. Let him show you. Let him do the hard work in recovery. Don't make him grovel though.

He said he is willing to quit or get transfered. When has he offered that before?


Married 1976
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2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
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