This has been my reality, too, for a long, long time. A very, very long time.

Okay, forever.

I had a life-changing thing happen over the last three months. I won't go into the details, but suffice it to say that my entire life, my philosophy of life, and my "being" felt in question... and then...

*poof*

It wasn't.

At the end of the tunnel, there was light. I haven't seen light this bright for years. Maybe since I was a child.

I simply don't care (in the same mind-numbingly, unhealthy ways I did before) what people think.

I care what my children think of me as a mother. I care what my H thinks of me as a wife. I care what my friends think of me as a friend. (You're getting the drift, right?)

I don't want to go through anything again like I did over the last several months. Heck, the last YEAR has been very hard on me (my beloved grandmother/closest friend/champion passed away last February). I could go on and on about things I found out about myself over this time. It's been an amazing experience. A growing time. But most of all, I'm finding out who I am at my core.

Anyway, AGG... hopefully your ex will find what she needs and quit trying to control everything -- which, let's be real, she never had control of in the first place.

Life... what is it John Lennon said: Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans.

Gotta love it.

I do too... The reality of it, though, is that from what I see, she is not even heading in the right direction. Afraid to go to the bathroom because G and I will "see her"??? How weird.

Moreover, I see the same passive aggressive and totally dishonest behavior that I saw for 12 years of marriage. After G and I came by to say "hi" to her and H and our kids (and she was very friendly and sweet), she e-mailed me saying how nice it was. Then come to find out from the kids that it made them "uncomfortable". Whatever. Let's face it, had I not come over, I would have been accused of being "distant" - I can't win those games, nor do I want to try.

The nice thing is that G and I had a discussion about this, to let her gain some insight into what she might be seeing down the line. And oh what a relief it was to talk about this to a sane person, who saw the same events as I did, and who also cannot believe that my ex should have felt threatened in any way.

AGG

Hmmmmm, this fits right into her self-esteem issues. Does your ex-wife struggle w/ weight issues? I only ask, b/c you've mentioned how very attractive G is physically, and if your ex-wife doesn't feel that she is attractive, she may have immediately compared herself to G, found herself wanting, and wasn't about to expose herself to scrutiny when she feels bad about herself. Am I making any sense? Lets face it, women derive ALOT of self esteem thru how they look. One of the many pitfalls of our society. I'll admit it, it's important to me, but I do know that there is a WHOLE lot more to me than how I look (not that I'm some glamour puss, but you get my drift).I dunno, it just seems really odd to me that a grown woman wouldn't go to the bathroom by herself. I know us girls like to go in pairs, but c'mon! Maybe she feared running into G in the bathroom by herself? Like G would do that anyway. She sounds way to level headed to put your ex, let alone herself, in a potentially uncomfortable position.

Your ex IS very passive-aggressive all in the name of "looking good", a people pleaser, trying to achieve that love, in order to fill her void.

Doesn't surprise me at all that your ex felt threatened, not b/c or you or G, but b/c of herself.

DW

Bingo. I suspected that this was the issue, despite it being totally silly - my ex is extremely attractive and quite trim - but she did tell our daughter that she (ex) needs to lose weight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Still, even if that is what was burning her up, she could have gone around us instead of in front of us...


It's a toss-up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. G is taller and thinner, and, IMO, much prettier - but like I said, my ex is no slouch either and has no trouble turning heads. The real issue is my ex's insecurity, no one can help her with that.


Yes, and to get to the point of our daughter having to walk her there??? Nuts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.


Very well said, DW, and I am so happy to observe this from the outside (especially with the sane and normal G by my side), than remembering how it was living with that (and now wondering how things must be for her new H <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />).

AGG

I understand what devwife is saying, and you too, AGG, because a woman's worth seems so tied with the society standard for beauty.

One thing about me, and this flies in the face of all my problems with self-worth... I've always appreciated a beautiful person (male or female).

However, I do remember feeling very threatened when my ex-H had a skinny, tan, blond OW... especially on the heels of my having three babies in four years. My youngest wasn't even a year old when he first began messing around in ernest. I thought I couldn't compete with her beauty. I still remember her pretty ankles (she wore a puka shell anklet - can you say "1987"?). I have thick ankles. She had a tan. I'm fair. You know, that kind of thing. But she was the OW. How can you not feel threatened?

But G isn't an OW, and your ex is remarried. What's to feel threatened about?

It's a head-scratcher.

NB,

I think it's baffling when the WS gets so insecure when they see us with SO.

In *some* cases, like with my ex, it was okey-dokey if he cheated (boys will be boys) but when I did, it was not. Maybe some of that rubs off and comes along for the ride after the marriage ends. I don't know.

(And so that I'm crystal clear - it was NOT okay, right, understandable, or explain-away-able when I cheated. I always feel compelled to say that because once, a few years ago, someone who didn't know me - or *of* me - and my many thousand posts where I spoke of wanting to die after my affair- thought I was minimizing my affair. I never have.)

That's right... My ex was the WS, and G has nothing to do with anything that way (besides, ex and I have been divorced for five years). Go figure...

AGG

Nellie,



I never read before that your ex-h was married prior to you. What is the history of that marriage? Are there children?

NB,



I'm so sorry for your loss!



She is and forever will be with you and it's showing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Ragamuffin!!

What a touching, lovely thing to say!

She passed on February 2nd last year, so these weeks coming up to the anniversary seem especially poignant. However, I agree with you... she *is* with me...

And... I have her brown eyes... nobody else in our family has (or had) brown eyes... just us... I see her there.

Ah, <sigh>... I just miss her. Thank you for allowing me to say so.

Ragamuffin,

My H was married briefly several years before I met him. His wife left him - no kids. In retrospect, I don't think he ever got over it.

I think it depends, to a certain extent, on the maturity and self-esteem of the parties involved.

My ex-husband and I parted with all our affairs resolved. No could've/would've/should've failed to be dealt with. We were done, and didn't have issues with moving on. I've remarried, and while things have settled down now, in the beginning, my husband's ex had issues.

I think A Good Guy's ex might be like my husband's ex-wife. She left him in search of I don't know what. When he asked to finalize the divorce, she didn't quarrel. But when he married me, 2 years after she left him -- she went a little nuts. She apparently thought he'd never move on and make a new life. Perhaps if her boyfriend and she had married, her perspective would have been better. But they didn't, and apparently her ego was bruised by our marriage.

We've been married about a year now, and the last 6 months or so have been quiet. Maybe she's found some measure of peace.

Regarding the initial question, I think I agree with earlier posters who felt it is inappropriate and confusing to go to the ex-spouse's home for visitation. The home of the ex-spouse is not "the marital home" -- and in our case, ex-wife's new home was never a home my husband was in. The "marital home" is with the new spouse -- whether that be second husband or second wife. The children should know they have two homes where they are wanted and safe. And their stepparents should be part of that.

I think it should be noted that not all stepmothers want to be "mom" to their stepchildren, nor do we deride their mothers. Furthermore, I think it's unfair to lump second husbands and wifes in with Other Women/Other Men. Most of us aren't.

I'd like to see stepparents/second husbands and wifes -- be treated with some measure of respect and acceptance.

Hi Belle, and thank you for your response!

I agree about the maturity level of both partners. It's great that you and your ex had no issues to resolve. How I wish it had been true in my (and my H's) cases. Maturity might involve knowing not to get involved with someone else too quickly after the divorce (or during separation). Age possibly has something to do with it, too, as well as life experiences. My life has never been what anyone would call "easy" and I wasn't expecting an easy transition through my divorce and remarriage either. Good or bad? I don't know... it just is.

And I also agree that step-mum's are given a bum rap sometimes (thanks Grimm and Disney! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

And as far as respect: I try to treat ALL people with respect, even when I don't agree with their choices. I do, occasionally, fall into a blame trap. I don't like me when I'm like that.

I have said before that I am becoming more and more convinced that the best thing for children would be for both their parents not to remarry (or live with a SO), at least until the children are adults. I realize that to legislate this would probably backfire, since there are some people out there who wouldn't hesitate to murder their children in order to be with their SO. However, I would bet that many WS's would think twice before abandoning their families if they knew they could never live with the OP. Even in cases where the second spouse is not an OP, from what I have seen and from what I had read on this board over the last seven years, at best there are numerous difficulties in blending families, and more often having one's parent remarry is an overwhelmingly negative and occasionally fatal experience for the children.

Nellie,

The best thing would be to never divorce. And yes, I'm serious. I know I'm a day late and a million dollars short (since I not only divorced but remarried)... but for the children, especially young ones, the best thing of all is to remain intact.

That said, once the couple is divorced, if you have a choice between getting married again or "trying out" a revolving door of "replacement mom's or dad's"... my money's on getting married again.

In a perfect world (which I doubt has ever existed) couples would marry for life, not cheat on their spouses, and be good parents to their children.

Since it doesn't seem likely to happen, and infidelity is on the rise (especially among women) and divorce has been 50% or over since I can remember, and children are falling through the cracks in intact and broken families... then the next best choice may be to never have children. That way, when the inevitable happens, no children are harmed.

All of this is just... musing out loud... because the reality is that second/third/fourth marriages do occur, and with a kind of regularity that I still find shocking (I'm old-fashioned at heart). So, what can we do to make things better with that reality? We can do our best. Nothing more.

I just pray that our best is good enough in the long run. 'Cause as far as I can tell, we've got some pretty significant problems (with our children) on our hands. I take responsibility for my small part... as I suspect most of us do.

You're right... we see enough here to scare the snot out of us. And I suspect that the REALLY BIG ISSUES are never discussed openly - or rarely.

NB,

I agree completely that the best thing is not to ever divorce.I would never have divorced my H - not only do I not believe in divorce, but even in the midst of his affair he was still a better father than he is now. I certainly would not recommend a revolving door of potential replacements, but of course that is not the only alternative to remarriage. Staying single is a very viable option. Actually I have no idea how single parents even find time to date and still have time for their children. I go out to dinner or somewhere with my co-workers perhaps once a month, and even finding the time to do that is difficult. I suppose not having children is an option, but it wouldn't do much for the long-term survival of the species.

"Actually I have no idea how single parents even find time to date and still have time for their children."


When I started dating BF, I only saw him when the kids were with EX, that was every other weekend. Rarely did we ever meet for lunch, when we did it was during the weekdays when the children were in school.

We talked on the phone every night, but only after the kids were in bed. BF usually call around 9:30PM and my kids were in bed by 8:30PM.

We had this schedule for 11 months. After I introduced the children to BF, our schedule still remains the same, except I see him every weekend.

I think this works for us because I was very honest from the beginning. I explained that I have children and they come first. BF have the same morals, values and beliefs, so he was very accepting of my choices and was in agreement from day one, which makes a huge difference.

Of course, Nellie, staying single is a very viable option. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Most of us, however, don't. You're rare, I think...

I wonder if MB is really more like an enclave, and not representative of the greater whole? In which case, maybe more people do remain single after divorce.

<shrug>

Like I've said, I don't stand in judgement of those who make different choices than I do. And I no longer choose to beat myself up for some of my poorer choices. Which, believe me, is a VERY good thing. I was miserable for a really long time.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have done some things differently. For me, it is because of my son. Because of his special needs, he will (most likely, but I'm not counting him out just yet!) live at home forever. I just wish I could provide that safe haven (home) for him because his situation is anything but stable right now (long story involving his dad). He's not in danger, unless it's death by boredom and/or his father denying his disabilities. I worry about him.

I know that staying with my ex would NOT have been the best for ME- or for him. But for our son, I have no doubt-- it would have been for the best. My ex had (still has) the money to provide for him, I had the understanding, energy, time and effort to get him what he needed (needs).

So the question might become: How long do you sacrifice for your children? Forever?

Just something to think about, I guess.

All I know is that I never expected things to be easy in my second marriage. I had enough doubt and shame to taint it from the get-go...

... but a funny thing (or two) happened: I became friends with my ex-H. My children adore(d) me in spite of my choices. My H's kids learned to respect me and know that I have their best interests at heart.

And, I am married to a dear man who I trust to hold my heart in his hands. I couldn't say that about my ex-H, which is sad.

Most of all, I know how blessed I am. Amidst some really crummy circumstances in my life, I am loved. I love. Call me a new-age-mushball, but in the end, I think that love is kinda/sorta important. And I do have that. When all else feels like it's falling down around my ears, I have love. Yep. <sigh>

PS: In re-reading, I see that I sound a little like lovesick teenager. All that love talk, eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The reality for me is that I *am* remarried, and that I *do* have a good H. And we love each other.

To go back now would be lunacy.

I did do the best I could at the time. I know that so deeply in my soul... in my bones...

In hindsight (where all the best thinking is done, no?)... I can see that for our son, especially, a restored family would have been best.

However, I don't think that 'making things right' would now involve a restored marriage to my ex. Talk about confusing the kids. Yipes.

If there was a true desire to go that direction for any parents who are divorced... they would need a ton of counseling, and a whole lot of other things (including OBVIOUSLY a divorce from the the current spouse ).

It's been done, of course, with varying results. If Dr. Phil is right, he says that remarriage to a former spouse rarely works unless the problems that ripped the marriage apart in the first place are STRONGLY dealt with (healed). I can imagine that to be true, BIG TIME.

(Insanity: doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.)

Well, this thread took quite an interesting turn, didn't it?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />