Want2BStrong,

I'm glad that you got some help from this board re; your withdrawal. I've gotten a tremendous amount of help on this board. It helps me to know what others have gone through, and that we are all facing similar challenges, even though our situations are different.

Church has also helped us to center ourselves for the week ahead. It helps us to refocus. We have only been going for about 2 mos but I definitely see a difference in both my attitude and my H's. He wants to become more involved, and will be going to the Prayer meeting tonight. I will stay w/ the kids. I also have a hard time trusting in God and giving my problems to God. This is all kind of new for me. The service on Sunday was about how all people show their devotion to God in different ways and it is all personal and between you and God. Everyone is different but we are all loved by God. Even when people are telling you negative things, you have to remember that God loves you. Before we started to go to church, my H would say leave it in God's hands...this is the most difficult thing for me to do, but I am trying. I see that it is working for us. I try to think of his A as God's way of telling us that we needed to make some radical changes in our lives. We still have more work to do but I think that we are moving along the right path now. And it helps to know that God is with me through this whole ordeal.

Well, I am still having the ups & downs, wish I hadn't married my H, wish I could turn back time, etc., but I'm hanging in there. I feel better at this point when I'm alone & my H just reminds me of what I've lost at this point. But, he is doing better at giving me what I need when I start to lose it instead of lecturing me or getting frustrated which just sent me over the edge.

I think too, I'm on the verge of a panic attack. I've had 2 very mild one before and this pain in my chest indicates that I might be getting ready to have a big one (my dad gets these so I know the symptoms well). I have refused so far to get any drugs for anxiety, but if I get a panic attack that is severe, I may have to rethink this one.

Hi Want2Bstrong,

Hang in there. You have gotten this far dealing with your H and his p/a, etc. Now that he has had the breakthrough last week, just see how things go. It sounds to me as if he is making progress since reading that article. It would be a shame if you threw in the towel just yet. I know I get frustrated too, but we have to take things slowly and try not to force all the changes at once.

My H has panic attacks sometimes. I would definitely consider meds if it helps you. If they are getting to the point when you feel them coming on, I would take that as a sign to see a doctor about it.

Hope you have a good day!

Mamafish,

I still hang in there. I do feel trapped in some sense of being in this place I didn't choose & wanting to hit the reset button or the easy button. But, here I am. I'm going to keep working on this M & hope we get through this. I did decide tonight to tell my mom a little about what has happened because I've been so removed from everyone lately (I told her just that our marriage wasn't what I thought it was, that he has lied to me alot in the apst & that I am in different stages of grief at the moment). I said we weren't in any serious danger, but I was very depressed right now. I wanted my mom to understand why I may seem to be "checked out" lately. It made me feel better for someone to know we are having problems too - even if they don't know the extent of it.

As for medication, I will think about it, but I'd really like to keep myself drug free if I can. Of course, if I have a full blown panic attack, I will likely change my mind. I will just wait & see how it goes. I think there are alot of things on my mind in addition to this. We are trying to get our house ready to sell which requires some construction to complete our upstairs. I am also running a business & tax time is coming as well which is always very stressful for me. I think I've just got too much loaded on me right now.

Then you'd better wonder what kind of recovery you got. The one who needs to recover is the WS. He needs to kill the WS and come back as your H. That's recovery. Then and only then can a BS lose the title of BS & company.

The Xws must earn back his spouse's and family's trust & respect.

So it's not what u can do for him rather what is he doing for you? If he isn't willing t/d much, then you don't have recovery. The selfish WS is still alive and trying to kick the BS....again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid, Great point. I think FWH is realizing this now. He's spending MUCH more time & energy having patience, understanding & love for me instead of being frustrated when I'm upset (putting his feelings aside).

As for the selfish WS, he is working on that as well. He completely sees himself as he was & understands how destructive that was. We have set up boundaries for him & he is following. Baby steps, I guess.

There is ONE problem I see with this. I believe my FWH has ALWAYS been a WS - not my H. Does that make sense? He wasn't having A's everyday, but he was dishonest with me continually throughout the marriage about himself, his belief systems, his values, his morals, etc. So, what would be recovery if you NEVER had the H, but a WS all along? Is this typical of other couples?

Hi Want2bstrong,

I'm glad that you were able to confide in your mother. It helps when someone knows (a little) of what you are going through. I find that it helps to talk to people on this board about specific feelings/etc/ re the affair.

I know what you mean about the meds too. I'm sure that I could use some antidepressents but because I'm nursing, I cannot go on them. So I am also in this drug-free, which I try to remind my H as he is on ADs. I don't have anything leveling out my moods.

I took yesterday off and my H and I were able to discuss some things. He read the letter Suzet posted that started Get over it, about the responsibilites. I also asked alot of questions which he answered. It hurt to listen to the answers but I told him that I felt better.

I know what you mean about handling it all. I also am the primary breadwinner and handle the finances. It is alot on our shoulders. We need to start to focus on ourselves also.

Have a good day!

You sound ok with his current stance, yet you sounded frustrated in the other post.....I'm confoozed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

L.

Mamafish, I didn't exactly confide in my mother. I told her that H had some lies he kept from me before being saved & they hurt alot & I've been depressed about it. But, I never mentioned the A's (and now you can see from my updated sig line, I have D-day #2). See post: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2926022 for that update!

The only person I've told is a friend who I thought would be there, but hasn't worked out so well. She's spent most of the time telling me to move forward & quit living in the past. Okay, that doesn't help so I quit talking to her about it.

My FWH did tell his brother, though, who said "Man, people get divorced over stuff like this!" I was listening on the other line & he sounded very concerned about it. He said he couldn't believe he would do something like that & would never think he would do something like that. My FWH told his brother that he was controlling our relationship passively & the cause of all our problems. I was happy he told him because I have always felt that his family sees me in a negative light over something I said years ago to my H & he repeated to them (while dating in the first few months). I think this is changing their image of us.



Orchid, I admit to have two sets of emotions at this point. I sometimes see a little good in my FWH, but other times cannot see anything but evil. I'm confused too. On the one hand, I don't want to be with him. He ruined our M, I don't know him as a person at all, I wasted years loving him while he used me and it's all been a lie!!! On the other hand, I don't want to be divorced, I still love him, I want him to be the man he tells me he's working to be, and I want to have a happy life together if that's possible.

Also, my FWH falls back into P/A ways & I cannot take it. Then, he comes out of it & tries to make things right. Talk about rollercoaster.

Want2Bstrong,

I hear what you're saying about confiding in people. My mother only knows about my H's A, that he cheated, but not about the duration, etc....I wish that she didn't because it makes it more difficult on me now that we are staying together. I also confided in one friend, who lives out of state. When I first confided in her, because I had no one else to turn to, she was supportive of me and would call me every couple days and email me supportive messages. That stopped after a couple weeks. She also told me to move forward and not let the past control my future, don't obsess about the details, etc. Same as you, this did not help me. I stopped confiding in her and started posting more on this board at that time....I find that other BSs know exactly what I am feeling, and that I am going through the same stages that we all go through. If you haven't been through it, you just don 't understand, as much as you may try to...this particular friend has never been married, so right there, she could not identify with this betrayal. Also, she has been involved with married men whose "wives didn't understand them" so she has been the OW. I know this since I have know her since we were 18 yrs old...That also made it harder for me to confide in her, and for her to identify with my feelings.

I'm very sorry about the latest revelations you have had. I understand your feelings about your marriage being a lie, and all that goes with it. My H's affair lasted 9 months, and I feel like that part of my life was also a lie. I want to know what his marriage vows meant to him, if he could betray me this way.

On a positive note for you, at least he is finally realizing what he has done and has admitted this to his brother. Perhaps now that it is all out in the open, you and he can truly move forward. Definitely seek out a pro marriage counselor to get you focused in the right direction...don't wait for him to make the call. You do it if it is the only way to get it done....

You are going to have two sets of emotions at times. It is definitely a rollercoaster. I would consider going to a counselor for yourself also. I am looking into this for me too, to deal w/ my own issues. I have the same thoughts--I want to be married to him, I love him, I want him to be the man I thought he was and that he wants to be. Then I think why would I want to be with a man who could do this to me--what does marriage mean to him?

The situations are different, but the emotions are similar. Keep posting here and heed the advice from the vets. They truly truly have insight into this complicated world we are living in.

Mamafish,

The friend I confided in has been on both sides of the fence. She was the OW for 3 years with one married man who she called her "soulmate" at the time. I kept thinking "what in the world is she thinking", but I didn't know about the Fog. Her WH was a serial cheater but she never knew until she caught him on the phone with his OW & he left her when she confessed her A (after 9 years of M). Then, she started talking to some of his friends who ended up telling her about one A after another (and when I say serial, I mean anything & anyone). He completely alienated himself leaving her very alone so at the time I understood how she "fell" into her A. She ended up divorcing at the same time her OM was moving away so she was losing both men at the same time. I helped her through this as much as possible as we live in different cities. I was always an ear for her & always encouraging. I never said "move forward" or anything knowing it would be hard. After her D, she dated a few single men, then ended up cheating on one of these men with another married man. That's when my H had it. He said "I don't want you to be her friend anymore". I understood as she used me as her cover for her weekend getaway with this married man. She soon saw the pattern with this 2nd married man & ended it pretty quick.

We've known each other since we were 12/13 so I was so shocked by her behavior. Of course, now I'm wondering how my H could be so self-righteous either. She has since found the Lord & changed her life. She is remarried & I've told her about HN/HN so she won't make the same mistake again in this M. So, I felt of ALL people, she would be understanding & be a great support to me. At first, like your friend, she was. But, then, I guess the progress didn't seem fast enough for her or something. So, she would repeat things like "don't hang on to the past", you need to "move forward". Obviously, I think it's not her place to say these things. I just need that shoulder to cry on, you know? So, I began posting here more too & it has been a great help. It's been tough when you start to think you are doing a little better, something triggers a breakdown. In my case, it was finding out all these new inappropriate relationships/situations that my FWH didn't remember. I had told him over & over that I felt there was more, but he kept saying "that's it! there was no one else! there is nothing else". He said this with conviction. Then, he had to come back & say that wasn't true. That's hard.

I can't imagine if my FWH had 9 mo. of an A. It's hard enough with brief encounters & one short PA. He & I have continually prayed that all the details will be known - that he will remember all of them so we don't delay recovery even longer.

I mentioned on my other post about a man at our church who was a drug user, dealer, theif, violent, in a gang & serial cheater who ended up in jail but is currently on the road to the ministry. He gave me their number so I could call his wife & speak to her. I think I'm going to do that today. I think her courage to stay with him will be an inspiration to me and I need that right now. He told me "When God gets ahold of a man, he makes him see what he's done & makes him feels completely disgusted with himself." Then, he said "Once I changed & realized my wife was still there with me, I realized how much she loves me & now I love her so much for sticking by me through all of it". While he was saying this, he began to get teary eyed. I guess don't want to miss this kind of love & appreciation from my own H.

I do struggle with my thinking that our M vows meant nothing to him. And our anniversary is coming. It is going to be hard for me to celebrate our 7 years today as most were scattered with thoughts & betrayal with other women. He keeps saying we must start a celebration of our NEW life together, but it's hard because I'm still mourning the life I thought I had.

I will look into couseling. I feel like MB site & board has been like counseling in many ways. We've gotten great advice here & the site helps give us some tools for recovery. But, I do agree we need more help in order to keep moving forward.

Hey there W2BS,

Yes, call that woman today....she may be able to help you and give you insight on how she was able to stand by him....I would love to hear what she has to say, so please post anything you think would help..

My friend also says that this married man is her soulmate, that they were meant to be with each other, are in love, etc. I didn't know about the fog either. This happened last summer and I was shocked that she would stay in this relationship but all the excuses that they make, she did--his wife is psycho, he has asked her for divorce but she threatens suicide. This man is 20 yrs older than she is and was her boss. No matter that he would go on vacation with his wife in FL...Funny thing is that this week, they let her go at the job because of his partner....She still doesn't get it, and I hope that she does soon. But since this started with my H, she had not mentioned the OM until I asked specifically. And I had never told my H any of these things about her because he didn't like her very much to begin with. He was surprised when I told him this and felt sorry for her.

It is very hard to deal with an LTA...he says that it was just sex and "convenient" and they had an agreement that it would just be physical between them... she was a younger coworker that had been flirting with him for months. He says I never meant to leave you and the kids, I never meant to hurt you...I also just feel that there is more feeling than he is admitting to. I don't think that he loved her, he has said that they were on and off over this time period, but I still feel like my life was a lie....I have told him that I'm trying to put together the pieces of the life I thought I had...He totally compartamentalized that life from the life with me and the kids...a true secret life...it is devastating for me to think about it but at the same time, I need to ask these qts and get answers because I don't think that I can get past it until I know.

I have asked him for his definition of marriage because sometimes I feel like we are just on two separate wavelengths, and like our vows meant nothing to him..It's hard for me to deal with the fog babble.

My H has given this to God and believes that God has forgiven him for his sins....he knows that it will take much longer for me to do this. But we have been going to church regularly and it has helped me to continue. I don't think I would have been able to do so on my own.


I would like to go to counseling for myself because I know that I have my own issues. The "reason" that he cheated was that he felt rejected by me sexually and that I was not meeting his needs for SF. This gave him the justification in his mind to look elsewhere, and since he never thought I would find out about it, he didn't think about my feelings...Yep, I could use some counseling myself...

This board has helped me out tremendously...We started with an MC but only went 3 times due to insurance issues. I want to start again when we can, in a month or two.

I did get ahold of the woman I mentioned who went through MORE then I did. Her story sounded very hard. She was separated several times due to his drug use. She says she is doing well now. It's been 3 years since they finally got their lives started in recovery.

This is her Christian perspective for helping myself forgive him & love him the way I should again. SERVE HIM! Basically, do things for my FWH & it will be harder to be angry & bitter. Also, she told me that she told her FWH that she forgave him, then if she'd start to get upset or want to go back, she take 5 min. or so & go & pray alone & pray that God would take these feelings away. She also made the decision to be cheerful. She said having her kids helped too because they couldn't fight in front of them (and she just had #5). Finally, she gave me some verses to read.

Hebrews 12:15
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Ephesians 4:31-32
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Mark 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Proverbs 19:11
The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression.

She also recommended for wisdom that I read a Proverbs a day.

My FWH did admit (finally) that is was just more then physical. He "felt" at one point that he loved her, but once he said it to her, he knew he didn't really mean it & that is when he realized he couldn't love her. But, for me, it doesn't change the fact that he did "feel" it. The OW was 23 at the time (about 9 years younger then me). The first OW (EA) is 13 years younger (she was 17 at the time he wrote the love letter to her). What an idiot - he was her boss - was he wanting to go to jail?

I know my life was a lie! All of it. I told him he was the only one that really knew what kind of marriage we had - I was in the dark about that. As for our vows, NO they didn't mean as much to him because he believed that he would be with me as long as he loved me!!! So, without God in his life, he had no reason to believe it would be for longer then the "feelings" held out.

Church is a great source of strength for me. Last night, the service was on Psalms 13. This is a great trial David was going through, but by the end David says he will sing unto the Lord. The pastor mentioned that maybe the trial you are going through could be the ONLY way God can get the result he wants from your life. That he's trying to make you become better. I think for me, it's about learning to forgive.

Psalm 13
How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me? Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death; Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved. But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation. I will sing unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me.

Another good point was I told this lady from church I met with that I felt I didn't owe my H anything (loyalty, faithfulness, love, etc.) And she said "you don't! You owe it to God!"

So, just some thoughts. I'm hoping to do better with God's help & guidance.



You know that you can NOT take the blame for his actions. I think We all know that, but sometimes you take it emotionally anyway. Every WS has a "reason" to justify what they are doing wrong otherwise they could not do it. HOWEVER, the truth is that the WS avoided dealing with the issue with their spouse for whatever reason (avoiding conflict, withdrawl, etc), but had my FWH came to me & said "HEY, I'M ABOUT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR BECAUSE OF 1, 2 & 3..." I'm pretty sure I would have listened up & changed my behavior quickly to make sure I did everything I could to save my marriage. I think WS's forget they made the choice to NOT come to the BS BEFORE & let them in on their feelings. Sometimes hints or complaints aren't enough...WAKE UP CALLS are needed - drastic language to let the BS that they are about to be betrayed.

The board for me has been a lifesaver. I come here to vent, read & vent some more. It's been wonderful for me.

Want2bStrong,

You said "Church is a great source of strength for me. Last night, the service was on Psalms 13. This is a great trial David was going through, but by the end David says he will sing unto the Lord. The pastor mentioned that maybe the trial you are going through could be the ONLY way God can get the result he wants from your life. That he's trying to make you become better. I think for me, it's about learning to forgive.

Psalm 13
How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me? Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death; Lest mine enemy say, I have prevailed against him; and those that trouble me rejoice when I am moved. But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation. I will sing unto the LORD, because he hath dealt bountifully with me."

This helps...I also get alot of strength from going to church. It is very new to me because I do not come from a churchgoing family, although I always did believe in God. It has been difficult for me to Let Go and Let God take care of things...Before we started to go to church, my H would read passages from the Bible that helped him, and would ask if they helped me. They never did, because I could not relate to them at all. The first service we went to, the subject was Forgiveness and I felt like the pastor was speaking to me, it was so personal...


"You know that you can NOT take the blame for his actions. I think We all know that, but sometimes you take it emotionally anyway. Every WS has a "reason" to justify what they are doing wrong otherwise they could not do it. HOWEVER, the truth is that the WS avoided dealing with the issue with their spouse for whatever reason (avoiding conflict, withdrawl, etc), but had my FWH came to me & said "HEY, I'M ABOUT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR BECAUSE OF 1, 2 & 3..." I'm pretty sure I would have listened up & changed my behavior quickly to make sure I did everything I could to save my marriage. I think WS's forget they made the choice to NOT come to the BS BEFORE & let them in on their feelings. Sometimes hints or complaints aren't enough...WAKE UP CALLS are needed - drastic language to let the BS that they are about to be betrayed."

Yes, YOU ARE SO RIGHT!! This is what bothers me so much...all of the times he would say he needed sex more, I wasn't affectionate enough, etc. IF ONLY he had said, Hey, there's this young woman I work with that I'm really attracted to and if you don't give me what I need, I know that she will...I definitely would have changed my behavior IMMEDIATELY....I never was given the chance to change my behavior...and what gets me about his A, is that it just went on FOR SO LONG....And he just thought of himself, but you;re right, all the WSs have the same justifications in their minds...I see this on the board all the time, how the WS didn't want to hurt the spouse, so they don't say anything...

This brings me back to that article that Suzet posted on the WS/BS responsibilities...When I gave it to him, he agreed with everything except the fact that he was solely responsible for the A....I said, I take responsibility for what I did in the Marriage that led to the conditions of the Marriage at that time...You made the choice to have the A and to continue it. THAT is your responsibility, not mine.

I do know that it was not my fault...But I blame myself for allowing the conditions that led up to it, because I trusted him so damn much. I knew things were bad, but I thought they would get better...Now I know to trust my instincts...

I'm in a real bad place now because this had all started the end of January last year...It's like I am reliving it all over again and maybe I'm reaching the angry stage, I'm not sure...I just know that I'm in for a rough ride this year...

You also mentioned something about how God makes things happen when we are not living our lives the way He wants (I'm paraphrasing here--I cannot figure out how to use this Quote thing)...I agree...My life could not continue on the way that it was going last year at this time, so I try to think that this happened for a reason...But I just am having a hard time lately...I try to think that we have an opportunity to make it a better marriage, but I think I have to stop reliving the past in order to do it.