Post deleted by anxious4answers

Yes, rape is a force sexual action on other person.

Sure you can't have feeling for your W b/c you have OW on the side. How's your kids feeling toward this Dv ?

People could change.

-rh-

Hi, this is the BW here. I have been constantly trying to meet my WH's ENs, but he is doing everything in his power to shut me out. Last night I decided that I would go back to trying to meet what I understand to be his biggest EN, sex. I approached him last night at bedtime, and though he was reluctant at first, he decided that he wanted to try, if not verbally, then definitely by his actions. It didn't go as well as it could have, so I tried again this morning. He kept saying that it wasn't right, but I believe it was because he somehow thought he was being unfaithful to OW. Anyway, his actions in directing me in how to do it as he liked it was showing me that he really WAS willing to to do this, even though he was also trying to talk HIMSELF out of it. His "lover" is many hours away from us, and the only way he sees her is to sneak off overnight every couple of weeks, with no notice at times, abandoning his family with no way for us to get in touch with him, which not only upsets me, but really upsets our daughters too. Anyway, as his wife, and the wife who is determined to be there for him and meet his needs no matter what, I told him I am willing to meet his sexual need whenever and however he needs it met, no matter how often he needs it to be met. I am in his bed every night, and it is right for me as his wife to do this. Again, he was the one directing me in what to do this morning; his hands were all over me too. I have been very inhibited in this area in the past so I was really stepping into unknown territory this time around, which is something I know he's been wanting me to do for a long time. He didn't have to sit down and lie down on the bed; he could have continued on to take his shower like he had planned. When I got up to get the lubricant out of the drawer, he could have gotten up then, but he didn't. In fact, I deliberately took my time doing that to see if he DID really want me to keep going. I even stopped to get a drink of water and let the cat out of the room during that same pause, along with some other things, and he just lay there expectantly. It was not rape in ANY sense of the word. He says he would have had to forcibly stop me, but he didn't try to stop me at all. He's not someone to lie there and take something if he doesn't want to; he WILL assert himself against any form of "intrusion" against him. That is simply how he is.

Also, he SAYS that he has wanted to divorce me for a long long time before he ever said anything to me, but two nights before our big blowup back in November, I woke him up in the middle of the night for sex (something he told me he likes me to do), and when I mentioned to him earlier in the evening that I might just do that, he gave me a conspiratorial grin, then when I did wake him, he was a very willing participant, even though his affair had already begun by that point, which I didn't know about at the time. Then back in December when he said he was willing to give "us" a try again, we went out of town for his office Christmas party, and we had a really hot time in our hotel room afterwards. He was supposedly "in love" with her then, but he showed no inhibition that time either. BTW, he hasn't made any official move to divorce me, and he never even consulted a lawyer about it until AFTER he had another relationship going on.

Regarding being abusive, yes I have been quite emotionally abusive in the past, as he also has towards me. I have put everything in the past and am only interested in moving forward, for all of our sakes, including our two lovely daughters who are devastated by his obvious unloving demeanor towards their mom. I have been working on all my attitudes and actions towards him and our marriage and our kids, and I stand firmly in my belief that this affair is just a detour he's taking, but that our marriage will be able to stand the test of time when he decides that he wants to make it work again. In the meantime, I'm here to meet his needs in any way I can.

The knife incident could have been read about in our other two threads, but they have since been deleted, and there are others on this forum who are versed in it. After searching the darkest reaches of my heart for well over a month, and talking extensively to my therapist and my psychiatrist about it, I confidently stand by the fact that what happened that day was me trying to express myself in a quite dramatic fashion, but never EVER was anyone in any danger from me being physically violent. I am not sugarcoating what I did, it was abusive, but it NOT PHYSICALLY abusive or violent, but a dramatic illustration of my inner feelings that were screaming to be heard. I never "went after" him with the knife; it was being used more as an emotional defense (being shown visibly) against his horrific anger towards me that morning, but not against him physically. Again, I have extensively searched to see if violence is an issue that needs to be dealt with in me, and it JUST isn't there. I cannot work up an issue just to deal with it; I have to deal in reality. I'm not saying this his issues aren't real to him, and I know he WAS afraid of me that day because I was holding a knife when I was angry, but the violence he believes I'm bound to cause is NOT there at all.

I love my WH with all my heart, and would NEVER do anything to harm him. He says that he prayed for years for this change in me, but when God actually got through to me, it turns out that he wasn't willing to wait for God's timing. But I'm here for him, and I'm his covenant wife, at least until the day I die. The emotional/spiritual connection will always be there, no matter who else he may find himself with.

Your whole post sounds like a load of toxic waste to me.

First of all you are not divorced. You are still married. You made a PROMISE.

Have the class to divorce your wife first before you start dating.

And what kind of a "wonderful" woman would date a married man? Give me a break!

Respect yourself and your children by waiting a full calendar year after the divorce is final before you get involved in another relationship.

About the rape??????? You were COMPELLED to have sex with someone weilding a butcher knife? How is that organically possible? Doesn't intercourse require an ERECT penis?

P, First of all, if I were a woman in the same situation you would have been willing to say I was raped. The double standard of the people on this site is incredible. This site has lost all credibility with me at this point. NO MEANS NO!!! No matter what sex you are. It is entirely possible to be unwillingly compelled to have sex, even if you are a man! Maybe if you took the time to find out the whole story, you could respond with some intelligence. So the filth that just spewed out of you makes your opinion entirely WORTHLESS!!!

Redhat, I didn't see your post the first time. Now I am sorry I deleted mine. The person pieta above just completely stunned me with their insensitivity to the point of giving up here.

You are right, people can change. As you can see, my W has put her own post here. I waited and tried for so many years for a change. At this point I am having alot of trouble turning back to her. I would never of even considered someone else if I had any hope left at that point. It took over 15 years for me to decide to divorce. Now, because she realizes that I have reached this point, she suddenly changes. She admitted the other night that she deliberately rebelled against the counceling we got from pastors in different attempts to save our marriage. She said she didn't want anybody telling her what to do. That builds up alot of resentment over time. This included not being intimate with me for up to 11 months at a time for several years straight. That level of rejection is what pushed me in this direction.

As far as the girls are concerned, I know they would rather see us stay together. I just don't think I can make myself love her again. The OW may be a factor in that. My problem with that is this... (If I were to decide to try working this out) I would have to hurt a person who showed me nothing but kindness, care, and love to do this. Then I fear that things wouldn't work out and I will be alone. But the biggest part of that is hurting her. She has done nothing to deserve that. I know some would say that she has because she got involved with me in the first place. As I said before, I was to the point of ending it, and she knows that.

A4A,

You posted to get a response to support yourself. You didn't so far. You are angry.

Your post embodies rape of the self. You feel raped because you will not make choices. Feels like a violation, an attack and stuck where you don't want to be against your will.

You remain solid in the belief that your wife makes you act and feel against your will. You've given her all your power by not seeing that you make choices.

You didn't respond to redhat. Asked a really good, concerned question. You heard something entirely different. Pieta gave you her opinion because you had asked for it. You bashed her because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

You deleted your post--was it because your wife bounced in here, again, entitled to tell her side of the story? Not to understand and comprehend your pain, but to push the blame back onto you?

How is this working for you? Post what you need most--to say what you feel and why you feel it. Ask the real question--why do I feel so out of control in my life?

LA

LA, Here you are again.

Actually I have made a decision. And I did respond to REDHAT. RH's question was a good one.

Did I tell you that at age 5 it was my daughters asking me to find a new mommy for them? Yes, both of them asked me the same question when they turned 5, incredible.

Why is it that just because my W has decided to work on this after all this time that I should just say... Oh, you finally came around!? This changes everything!!! I will just forget everything you have been doing to me all this time and just stay with you!!! You know what... I am going to be completely honest with you about how I feel. I am so angry about what she has done over all this time that I could just spit. As I said to RH above. My W admitted to purposely rebelling against the councel of our pastors when we sought to save this marriage before. That really pisses me off!!! It was an act of her own will to hurt me all this time, so that she could say that "nobody can tell me what to do". How would you feel if your H admitted to something like that?

The only reason I may feel (as you say) "out of control of my life", is because I am being... followed, watched, questioned, yelled at, etc... She has told my girls in a very unloving way about all this stuff. She has told all the people in the house church (that I used to attend). She even told my mother about all this. She says she wants to stay together, yet she seeks out every opportunity to drive me further away. I actually began to think I could try again when she decided to do all that. If she was really wanting to work this out, why would she do things to drive us apart? I am beginning to think that she is just looking for justification of her own. To be the victim instead of an integral part of the problem.

As I said above to RH, I deleted my post because of the double standard that exists here. Obviousely not everybody, but enough to diminish the effectiveness of the site for me. I am not looking for agreement or I would not be responding to you. You do not agree with me, yet I respond. If you look at the history of my last thread, you know that I only respond harshly when people post harshly without knowing the whole story. I have been trained on how to avoid making assumptions about people without first "asking" for the whole story. Pieta doesn't respect what I may be going through or feeling. He/ she only responded with an uninformed- knee jerk reaction, designed to hurt and belittle me. I will always accept constructive criticism. I will not accept what P did. I got enough verbal abuse here, I don't need it from anybody else!

a4a-
I'm sorry you're in so much pain and going thru this. I don't want you to get a sour taste in your mouth about this site. Some will respond politley, and others will just say it how they think they see it.

At any rate, most here support marriage, since it is a marriage building site, and they are very passionate about how they feel.

But there is also support, for those who are ending their marriage, and going thru this kind of pain. There is many types of pain on this site.

I think what might be triggering some of the reactions here is not because you are thinking of ending your marriage, but because there is someone else involved. And for many broken marriages here, that was the reason why it was broken. So it's a little bit of a sensitive piece.

Anyway, I do wish the best for you and your situation! I know the agony of waiting for someone to change, only to change at the last minute, when control has been lost. I'll be honest, and not in a mean or harsh way, but I just want to say, I don't agree with having an OW yet, this could add more grief to the situation, for you and her. You should probably be alone for a while, if you do divorce, to have time to completely heal, so you have ALL of yourself to offer someday. But, again, this is JUST my opinion, not a flame!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Take care...

Jennifer

You and I were posting at the same time and I didn't see your reply to redhat.

My H was very much of your W's mindset. He told me repeatedly, "I don't like being told what to do--not by you, my parents, my boss or the public. I hate it."

Your wife is a victim of your infidelity. That is the only place that is true.

And I hear you saying you are a victim of your wife's behavior, and have been for 15 years.

Your truth is yours. This is what I'm seeing.

I understand when you feel attacked or mistreated, you will not look at what your attacker is saying, separate from the attack.

You want to be spoken to and understood in the same way. You have no control over how you are treated which can really get in the way of your truth search to make a decision.

Your wife is in serious pain and continues to be because you won't break it off with your lover. You are doing that. You are not choosing to hurt another person or yourself but allow your wife to suffer this particular wound minute by minute. Your choice.

You've been struggling with leaving your wife for a long time. She has done terrible stuff. She is no longer doing that now. You have done terrible stuff and are still doing it now. Your pain is there, harsh, unyielding, daily. So is hers. You two are in equal pain. Only you are actively injuring her in protection of someone else and yourself.

You have a difficult deciding what you do in light of the right thing. You have difficulty making any decisions. Start with a small one. What code do you use to decide whether or not you want sex with your wife? You say No means No. "I don't want intimacy with you. I feel invaded and used." Whatever your truth is, decide to speak it. Choose to remain or leave the room. Know your choices.

You choose, anyway. You know that.

"To thine ownself be true," may have been first said as an attack on someone else, as a bash designed to do injury and retaliate. Can you separate truth from the teller? Will you decide what is true for you, first?

LA

P.S. I won't give up on you or your wife. If you do not want me posting to you, just make that choice and ask. I don't have to get respect to give it.

I seduced you, I didn't rape you. You even said that (or agreed with me when I said it, I can't remember which exactly) this morning while it was happening.

I know you're angry at me; that is what woke me up from a long slumber and told me that I needed to change! I keep saying that the real "H" is struggling to be let out, yet you seem to keep pushing him down. I see this very clearly in the way you're struggling with all of this. Well, the real "W" was pushed down by me for years, and I'm now letting her out again. That person you fell in love with 18 years ago. The one who was warm and caring and giving, do you remember her? And the person who still loves you with all my heart today. Yes, the person you were/are angry with is the rebellious woman who wouldn't listen to counsel. I didn't listen because I didn't think that it was God telling me to do the things that "they" were saying to do, basically following a cookie-cutter marriage formula, where the husband always needs to do "this", and the wife always should do "that", and any deviation from that formula meant that you weren't "worthy". THAT is what I was rebelling against. Do I see value in any of the counsel now? Yes, I do, but NOT in the context of a cookie-cutter marriage, but in the context of a marriage between two individuals who are both persons, not objects. Which is what attracted me to this site in the first place. As I was busy not listening to what "they" were saying, I was missing the opportunity to hear the Lord saying some those same things to me, but He says these things in the context of HIS design for our marriage, not in the context of that particular church's design for our marriage.

With all that said, let me say to you again I'm here for the long haul. Our hearts and lives are and will be entwined for as long as we both shall live, and nothing can change that, not another woman, not a divorce decree.

I can't verify that this actually happened, and I can't verify that it didn't. That was 3-5 years ago, during the biggest struggle of my motherhood. I was dealing with a lot of anger at that time, and yes, I yelled and screamed and even spanked a lot back then. That is also in the past, and they know that I love them with all my heart, and I have a great relationship with them now. Do I get annoyed with them at times? Well, yeah, but I'm now able to see past what's going on with them at the moment and see them as who they really are, and not as someone sent to make my life harder than it should be. These are the same kids who now are "planning" all kinds of getaways for ALL of us to go on, I believe in the hopes of getting us to make everything right again. They also said that the two of us should get away together while they look after the house for us. They don't want a new mommy OR a new daddy; they want their own mommy and daddy to keep it together for them, and to spend time with them, and not be abandoned by either of us.

Both of you sound like you need immediate mental health counseling. I hear lot of cheating and abuse and toxic things going on and disrespect and violence.

Get away from each other and go to counseling, both of you. Or if you have to stay together get a marriage and family counselor to help the whole family.

Get one NOW! And quit all cheating and violence. NOW.

B2S,

This is why you both having separate threads is important. You tread over what A4A saying his truth. You can't verify if what he believes is true. What he believes is true IS TRUE for him. Nor should he tread over your truth. There is no challenge in what he said about your girls saying that. He's saying "I feel crazy. I knew what she was and can't trust what she is yet. I look for validation even from children." That's his truth. You have your own.

This is why all you write to him, say to him isn't getting through. He wants most to know he has his own thoughts and feelings and you are not going to tell him he is wrong for having them.

Same for the way he treats you in this way.

Please stop using your children, both of you. This is between you and him. He said the same thing as you did in his post after his initial comment--that your daughters want you both to stop hurting each other and be a family.

Be still and listen. One of you have to begin doing this.

LA

J8,
Thank you for your understanding and candor.

I do understand that many here were hurt by a WS. And I am not saying that all WS's were brought about by a desperate situation, like mine. I also understand that this is a marriage building site. Maybe that's why I keep coming to this place.

I do know this... The fact that I am a wondering spouse came about in a desperate situation and searing pain. I know how it looks. I know how I would feel if the situation were reversed. I don't relish the fact that my W is being hurt in all this. It came about when I wasn't looking for it. I just can't describe what it felt like when I felt love towards me after all that time... virtually alone. Maybe thats why I can't bring myself to end it by hurting her. I am not saying it's right, but the thought of hurting the one who has only shown me love for the one who has spent so much effort in hurting me, just kills me inside. I don't expect you to agree, but maybe understand my dilemma.

bitter2sweet ... please start your own thread and I will post over there.

anxious4answer ... don't engage her post and stick to people who post to you.

I will post here shortly to you.

-rh-

LA, I understand that you believe I should have either chosen to stay in the room or leave. At the time this was going on I would have had to push through her to do so. When a woman says "no" to a man who wants to have sex with her, he should stop immediately. Even if they are both standing there naked holding each other. That is the standard men are held to by women as well as the law. Why is it so different for the reversed situation?

As far as the rest of your post, read what I said to J8. It would be redundant to rewrite that. You will get the jist of it.

I am trying to be true to myself. I am just in search of what that truth is for me.

I can understand your dilemma. I don't believe you went out, hunting for someone else, with the intensions of hurting your wife. And I'm sure it felt great, to feel like someone cares.

How does she (OW) view this situation? Does she want you to divorce, or is she comfortable with things the way they are? (Not sarcasm, truly just curious).

I know you're afraid of hurting her, but either way this goes, could hurt her. I think she's kind of at high risk for that. Just do what you think would be in her best interest, whatever that may be. But it should probably be one way, or the other. Again, just a thought, not a flame! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'll pray about this...

Jennifer

a4a,
I understand your feeling well. You are afraid to hurt OW b/c she is there while your W isn’t. You feel she doesn’t deserve this. You felt nothing about your W but you can’t go on either … you are split between 2 lovers.

Let’s get one thing out the way first. This is basic MB concept. She looks perfect and a soul mate to you because you were telling her how to be one. How ?. You told her your grievances about your W, all she needs to do is the opposite of it. You are teaching her how to fillin your ENs and avoiding LB’ed. You spend time with her to get ENs filled. You could even give to anyone a chance like that, you will fall in-love with her. In-love feeling could be build. This is MB all about. So if your W is willing to do it and you are willingly let her doing it to you … you would fall in-love with W.

Now about hurting OW. If you don’t want to hurt OW … you are hurting her now and chances of hurting her in the future. How ?. You have to make a decision and filed Dv if you are sure that this is what you want and not dragging it any longer. OW would get hurt if she knows that you are still sleeping with your W. Since OW is in A with you, she might pursue her own mate but waiting. You are hurting everyone. In the future ? Do you know that A is only has 3% chances become M and almost no chance become happy M. Why ? simple fact, she would not trust you. Words like “If they do it with you they will do it to you” rings in her head. Your R with OW is based on your grievances in M … if your M ended, both of you have to focus on a healthy R. Like other poster said … you sound angry and hurt by your W … you need to take time to heal from this M. You have all the red flags to make OW unhappy the future. She would be always be “the woman that break mom and dad M” in your kids eyes.

Working on M or Dv … you need NC with OW for now to find your true. You need to hear yourself not OW and not W … make sure whatever your decision is you won’t regret it later.

I read a bit about b2s from her post and yours … who is OW ?. Are you sure you could make her happy?. You have to be careful with any woman who is willing to get involve in other people’s M.

If you want to take it off line … we could talk.

-rh-

a4a-

Hope the thoughts here haven't run you out of here...
Jennifer