Well, I saw TD's thread about how he feels all used up by me and how I'm being mean to him for not jumping into bed with him and f***ing his brains out. I'm sorry for the graphics, but that's how I feel. I don't feel "intimacy" with him...and I'm certainly not in love with him...so why on earth would I want to strip nekid and let him have his way with me???

It's possible that TD could argue that I never had a problem having SF with other men before, and I didn't need to be "in love" with them to do it, either. This is absolutely true. However, there was also another component...arousal...that factored in. Without either component, who wants to engage in SF?? At this point, I'd rather go to the dentist for a root canal without novacaine than engage with him.

Ok, so that was a LB, I'm sure. I guess I have the need to "vent" just like he does. I know that TD has been giving and giving and giving. He's told me how he's HAPPY to hear about my job and that he doesn't remember seeing me this happy for a long, long time. Yet, he comes on here and COMPLAINS that all we talk about is my new job. So, I guess that would mean that he's been LYING to me about wanting to hear and enjoying to hear about my new job???????

Yes, I did stay in bed until 2 pm today. I don't think I've done that in a very, VERY long time...and I was LONG overdue. I had warned him for the last few days that I was not going to get out of the bed until at least noon. I kept my word...only I did get up around 7 am to let the dogs out for a few minutes, and then I returned to bed. As far as the cake he and the kids made goes...I didn't know anything about a cake, and I didn't know that they were waiting on me to get up so they could have some. Perhaps if someone had shared that little tidbit of information with me, I would've gotten out of bed to make everyone else happy.

I guess that perhaps I am being selfish. I was incredibly tired all week, because I went from being a SAH mom for 10 years (who could take a nap daily when needed) to working FULL TIME at a relatively high-pressure job. I'm not complaining about my job at all, because it's probably the best thing that's happened to me in half a dozen years. I can't wait to get there in the morning, I usually work through lunch, and I don't want to leave when the clock strikes 5. And I could really tell how much I missed it today. I've been really depressed today. I don't feel like doing anything or being around anyone.

Fighting with TD about SF hasn't helped either. I feel like he's going into his "pouting" mode again, just like he's always done in the past when SF wasn't frequent enough for him. I don't really know what to do. He said that I don't care about him, and perhaps I don't. While I want all the successes in the world for him, plus health and happiness, that's about as far as my emotions go for him right now. I feel like I'm taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

He complained about me not having written the NC letter. I've been WAY too busy to do it. I know that probably sounds like a cop-out, but I'm trying to figure out this new routine of being gainfully employed. Our lives have been turned completely upside down with my new job. I'm still trying to figure out how to get myself ready and get out the door in time to get the kids to school and then make it across town to get to work on time. So far in my first week I did not make it to work on time ONCE. The latest I've been is 15 min, but still.... And then there's the whole after work routine...leaving in rush-hour traffic, picking up the kids at my aunt's house, chatting with her for a while, then getting home, sorting the mail, checking phone messages, letting the dogs loose, and then trying to think of/cook something for dinner. Please don't hear that as complaining because I know thousands of women have been doing this for decades...I'm just saying that it's all new to me and I still need to get used to it. By the time I'm done eating dinner, I'm so exhausted that I can barely see straight. Like I said, my job is high pressure...I rush around all day trying to find good candidates for jobs, and then rush to get in contact with them...some days I feel like I'm running around in circles because I'm being pulled in so many different directions.

I really am sorry that I'm not able to meet TD's ENs right now. I've been trying to meet his need for admiration to the best of my ability. I've also shown him sincere gratitude for the things he's done for me. But none of that matters if I don't fulfill his need for SF, I guess. I just don't feel "close" to him. His assignment for counseling tomorrow night is to fill out the ENs questionnaire and the LBs questionnaire. Maybe then I'll finally know what his ENs are so that I can start meeting them. I just don't think that I can meet the need for SF, no matter HOW high it is up on his list.

Frustrated too,
Crystal

Crystal, that was not only a LB but there were some DJ's in there too. I am sure you know this but SF is an expression of affection for many men. In his vent his was asking for affection. How do you rate yourself for giving affection?

BTW, without sounding disrespectful..I have worked fulltime while raising my family forever. Never, and I mean never have I felt I was "due" staying in bed all day. I would have to be feverish and puking my brains out to take a day off from caring for my H and kids. How lucky are you that TD gave you that.

Wow, all I can say is wow.

And that's not a good wow.

Jen
FWW

No, sweetheart, I'm NOT kidding.

You could talk to me. You could tell me what's going on in your head. You could tell me where your heart is, but as it is, I only get clues when I draw them out of you.

About the NC letter... I don't know... I suppose you could just about cut-and-paste any one of the NC letters that have been posted on this board. Maybe it's not really necessary, especially all the other things you've done to demonstrate your openness and that NC is really in place... hmmm... no passwords, no showing me the pre-paid cell phone. Then again, maybe you haven't done ANYTHING except get indignant any time I want more than your bare word that you've initiated NC.

You could spend 10 min. in the evening reading one of the books by yourself or with me. You could join me in devotionals. SOMETHING.

But, no.

For the record, we haven't "fought about SF" within the last month or so. You turn my inquiries and tentative advances down cold. Every time.

Ask yourself, dear, "Do I think my H loves me because I look like your run-o-the-mill Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Model?" The answer is NO. I do think you're very cute, but I'm attracted to you primarily because I CHOOSE to set my heart on you.

BTW... What's this "one step forward and two steps back" stuff? Do you consider it a major setback everytime I'm not 100% thrilled with how you're treating me?

What I see when I read your comments is that you're upset that I have the audacity to have feelings too. You're P-O'd at me for wanting that which you've CHOSEN not to give me (for no more substantial reason than you have the ability to choose to cut me off and you have done so). You feel attacked that I don't want to be your doormat. Offended that I have the gall to want to be your PARTNER.

Just to clarify, I DID NOT complain about the conversation being about your work... I kinda enjoy it, because I like to learn what interests you. However, you would go and have gone off on me for ONLY talking about things that interest me. The reason I mentioned it was to show how you have fallen into doing that which you've derrided me for doing for years.

I'm tired of all of this being about you. I don't want it to be about me, but I would really like for this to be mostly about US. I want you to put US first... If you want to meet most of my EN's (and I know this will TOTALLY surprise you) STOP being so secretive and start doing things that look to someone who cannot hear your internal monologue like you're working on the M.

I can see that you're doing *some* things, but you only seem to do those things that people other than me prompt you to do. You don't take any initiative of your own, and if I ask you to do something WITH me for the benefit of our relationship, you become completely apathetic and/or ignore my comments.

Haven't I demonstrated that I value you? Haven't I shown that I will do everything in my power to pick up the slack and relieve as much of your stress as I can? Haven't I taken to FOLDING most of the close, in addition to collecting and washing them?

SF isn't the only way to connect with me and show me that you're working on US and putting US as your top priority, but it does help me feel connected to you. If the thought of SF with me turns your stomach right now, then why won't you talk to me - initiate R conversations... volunteer the state of your heart. Or demonstrate that you're trying by reading some of the books we've gotten to help us... alone or with me.

Heck, you could even put down your iron-clad pride long enough to say, "I love you." You don't have to FEEL butterflies in your stomach to know that you've made a real and sincere choice to love someone, and you can say it.

But how I feel doesn't mean squat to you. That's what you've shown me. No... I wasn't kidding, but I guess I was foolish to hope you would value me.

Gee, TD, I remember people on this board telling us specifically to stay off each others' threads. Was it too hard to stay off this time??? Notice that I posted my vent on my own thread, rather than posting on yours.

crystal

TD,

And, just for the record, it's not my "iron-clad pride" that's keeping me from saying "I love you," nor is it what's keeping me from sleeping with you either.

Crystal

I didn't want to cut and paste your entire post, and I thought a direct response to some of the things you said was appropriate.

Then what is it?

Is this a game of 20 questions? It would be nice for you to volunteer what's in your heart instead of hiding it and parsing out little bits and pieces every now and then.

So, what is it that's keeping you from being willing to say that you love me. You know I'm aching to hear it. I obviously don't want you to lie to me, but I think that if you admit that you are committed to trying, then you can say you love me honestly, and maybe - just maybe - if you let yourself admit your committment by professing it to me, then you will start to FEEL it, too.

Faithful Follower,

I'm glad that you've been able to work full-time and take care of your family "forever." My hat's off to you. Clearly you're a better person than I am. However, I'm still suffering from depression (and even 2 anti-depressants don't seem to be doing much for me right now), and after my first full week of work, I was exhausted. I'm sorry if it seems as though I was being selfish. Perhaps I was being very selfish. But after the years and YEARS of not being able to stay in bed even when I was feverish and puking because TD had to work while I took care of the kids, I felt I did deserve a bit of rest. I've given him the opportunity to get rest when he's needed it.

Crystal

Crystal,
I've never posted to TD or you before and I don't know your whole story. I think that it is great that you are open to MB principles.

I too recently went to work full time and there is a transition period...make sure you let TD know what to do on a daily basis to help split the load. Being a SAHM you probably did the bulk of domestic chores, talk to him about what he can do. He sounds like he is willing to assist. The BIG thing to remember is appreciat his efforts and don't be too critical if he doesn't do thing the exact sme way you do. And cut yourself a break you do not have to do everything. TD doesn't want you to be superwoman he wants you to be his wife/partner.

As far as staying in bed all day. We all deserve a day off now and then. What were you thinking while you were nestled in your comfortable bed? Were you thinking of OM? Or did you realize how lucky you are to have a healthy family, a comfortable home, a warm bed and TV to watch, that your family allowed you to rest undisturbed, that you have a job that you enjoy and a man who knows that you are not perfect and wants to make a future with you anyway?


This is a cop-out. I'm glad you posted....you found the time to write that but you don't have time for a NC letter?
Come on who are you kidding?

Dear OM,
Please do not contact me and I will not contact you. I am trying to rebuild my marriage and make up for the hurt I caused my family. Please respect my wishes.

Sincerely,
Crystal

That took about 1 minute to write (but longer using italics...LOL)

As far as SF I don't think you should unless you really want to but....knowing TD does want SF don't tease him...he is obviously very attracted to you. If you don't want to have intercourse there are other ways you could help him relieve his sexual tension.

I can hear the frustration in your post. Please keep posting...and reading here...this is not an easy task. We all know that because we are living it too.

OK, TD, I'd step out of this because it's just going to turn into a completely useless slanging match between you and Crystal.

I once said that I'd put a lot of work into our recovery and someone said to me "huh, you can't have, you're the FWW." Well, after reading what Crystal's written I see that I did put a great deal of effort into being a decent human being after not having been one for 18 months.

Instead of writing what I was going to write I'm going to take each thing you've written Crystal and try to make some sense of it.

"Well, I saw TD's thread about how he feels all used up by me and how I'm being mean to him for not jumping into bed with him and f***ing his brains out. I'm sorry for the graphics, but that's how I feel. I don't feel "intimacy" with him...and I'm certainly not in love with him...so why on earth would I want to strip nekid and let him have his way with me???"

Ok, this first. The day after d-day when things were at there very worst between my H and I, I made my first steps at trying to gain back some intimacy by initiating SF. No, I didn't want to but I knew that if we were going to have any chance at all that's where it was to going to have to start.

"At this point, I'd rather go to the dentist for a root canal without novacaine than engage with him."

That is just plain nasty and immature and as FF said, a real DJ.


"I didn't know anything about a cake, and I didn't know that they were waiting on me to get up so they could have some. Perhaps if someone had shared that little tidbit of information with me, I would've gotten out of bed to make everyone else happy."

So your kids mean nothing to you either. Great.

Full time work - wow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Just like I've always done and I'm 51 now.


"He complained about me not having written the NC letter. I've been WAY too busy to do it."

You've been TOO BUSY!!!!!!!!!

In the post I deleted from your last thread I said you needed to grow up. I just find what you've written unbelievably selfish and immature.

Why don't you just leave now Crystal.

Do you two not live in the same house?

Would it not be more construcive to call the Harleys and hash this out over the phone?

All you two seem to be doing is forcing yourselves further and further apart. Maybe that is what you want.

You know some people come here wanting help and encouragement. Some come here to justify their own behavior.

I think the ones that want help and encouragement find it. We are not real good at justifying inappropriate behavior.

KiwiJ,

Ok. I wasn't trying to make this a fight. I would like to TALK tonight and work through some stuff.

KiwiJ--

You know what, you are absolutely right. Perhaps I should go. It's great for you if you liked having SF with your husband. Fine for you. But I can't imagine letting him touch me in that way, because I don't feel connected to him at all, and I'm not terribly attracted to him either. I don't know what to do about that.

Yes, I am tired because of the depression and because of trying to get used to the new routine.

About the whole cake thing...NOBODY told me they were waiting for me. Nobody said a word. I guess I was just supposed to be a mind reader, huh???

Crystal

Moveforward,

Yes we live in the same house. Maybe THAT's the whole problem. And, I'm not the one who got on TD's thread and made this a fight.

As for hashing it out with the Harleys...we have an appt. with Jennifer tomorrow night. I'm sure it will be so very constructive too. TD's been passive-agressive for the past 2 days.

Crystal

I wonder why?

Here's the stupid NC letter.

TD, if you want to send it, you know his email addy, so cut and paste and send. At this point, I don't see why bother. I'm the one who normally has to initiate contact with OM. If I don't, I don't talk to him. Sooooooo, when do you think the last time it was that I talked to him. Hmmmm.....remember the day I told you that I talked to him on the phone while I was at Wal-mart?? That was the last day I spoke to him. Probably 2 days later I chatted with him online for a few min, but when it became clear that he wanted to meet, I told him I needed to go because I had no intentions of meeting him. I haven't spoken to him since. I haven't sent him any IMs. I haven't emailed him. As far as I'm concerned, NC has been established. But, if you want to open up that whole can of worms again, then, by all means, send this NC letter to him.

Dear D,

I don't want to talk to you, see you, or hear from you anymore. I am trying to work on my marriage to the best of my ability. While I don't see you as a threat to my marriage because I'm not in love with you and only think of you as a friend, I see that it's inappropriate for a married woman to have a friendship with a man. I'm not going to play with fire.

Be safe,
Crystal

Does that make everyone happy?? Or was my NC letter inappropriate too?

Crystal, I said I didn't want to. I'd also been on anti-depressants for months, ever since the A ended. I didn't think I loved my H, I was in horrible withdrawal still for the OM.

I just knew I was going to have to do everything and anything to at least try to save my M, or leave. I didn't want to leave. We'd built a life for 28 years, I knew it would be very stupid to throw it away even though I'd been only too happy to when I was in the middle of the A.

Trying to recover some intimacy was my first step. Interestingly, after about a week of constant SF (every night) my H said, this is too much, too soon. I need to get my head clearer first.

Crystal,
On of the big things here on MB is for BS and WS to take a good look at themselves. Look inside and be REALLY honest with yourself...accepting responsiblity for your own actions and decisions that led to marital dysfunction and to A. You talk about your depression...its a very real thing. Depression is anger turned inward. You sound like you can find plenty of fault with TD and a lot of justification for what you do. It sounds like denial and withdrawl...its all part of the process.

I hope you will be able to forgive yourself and open your Love Bank to TD. It sounds like your LB is closed and TD could bake cake while standing on his head whistling "Dixie" and you wouldn't be impressed.



Before you have your session with Jennifer...don't think of all the things TD has done wrong. Look deep inside yourself, look into the eyes of your DDs, and be honest with yourself.