Help...I just found out yesterday what I suspected, that my W had an affair. I came to realize that she was having an EA, but only found out yesterday that once (so she insists) it was an PA. It happened over a year ago and she says she feels really bad and was in denial. To make matters worse a couple months after the PA took place, my W and I spent part of our vaction with him. This is tearing me apart (feeling like so many others on this site). I have been reading 'Give and Take' to help with the our marriage problems. ok ok let me get to my question...

I met my W in college, and we dated each other for 7 years before getting married. We've been married for 4.5 years. A couple years ago, I went back to school. I was extremely busy, struggling to keep up with the demands. At the same time my WS turned 30, and went through a mid-life crisis evaluating everything. I tried to balance both school and home, but unfortunately looking back on it home suffered. My WS met OM at yoga and soon became friends. Being new to the area, I thought this was a good thing, as we'd never had any major threats to our marriage/relationship before so I didn't think much about it. Well after a year passed (6 months after they met), I confronted WS that she was spending less time with me and more with OM. She agreed and we tried to spend more time. My second year of school was even more hectic than the first and WS and I spent less quality time together. So to cut an already long story short, my W's Emotional needs were changing and I was not there to meet them, so she found OM who did.

Now I am graduated, realized what is happening and have confronted my WS with it and want to change. We've been to see a couple's therapist, but it has not really improved things. At the same time my W is going to her own therapist to help her understand herself and the changes she is going through. When I talk to my WS she tells me that she is torn between finding who is is and what she needs (as advised by her therapist), and working on saving our marriage. At the moment because I am unable to meet her needs, she is leaning towards moving out to 'discover' herself. I don't want this, as I feel that our marriage (which she says she wants to save) will suffer more as I will not be able to be there to meet her needs.

My question is can we work on our marriage even though she is going through an identity crisis at the same time? and if so how? (1st step is having no contact with OM, but then what?)

Thank you for reading my extremely long posting. Sorry, I am just overwhelmed at the moment. I love my W and want to save our marriage, which up to this point have been wonderful.

DC, welcome to MB. Have you read the site thoroughly including Harley's basic concepts? Get and read Surviving An Affair. Ok, now is your MC pro marriage? What about your WW's IC? Many therapists are not pro M and could hinder rather than help your recovery chances. You may want to put your money toward counseling with Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers instead.

Why is it that you can't meet her needs?

faithful follower & believer - thank you for your reply. It is nice to know that there are others out there. Feeling very overwhelmed right now with all the emotions. Many of my friends are my WW as well, so this makes it really hard to share and have support....

Let me first attempt to answer faithful followers answer. I'm not sure if my MC is pro-marriage. How do I know? She is a psychologist and seems more intent on If she is not pro-marriage how do I go about find one? I have read Harley's section on how to find a good marriage councelor, but I don't really feel up to flicking through the yellow pages and trying different MCs. We found this MC through a referral. (side note: If there is anyone out there from the Washington DC area, please post referals for good MCs) I have tried to get my WW to read this site, but she seems very reluctant. She has read Harley's section on 'Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After an Affair' and was somewhat skeptical about it. To make it harder, she is a therapist herself so has ideas as to what is right etc. I will continue to talk to her and get her to read at least the section on 'how to survive an affair'. Getting her to agree to counselling with Harley might be hard though.

Sorry another long response. I guess my question is how do I know if my MC is pro-marriage?

Ok now believers question (and I will try to keep it shorter). My WW says that she herself doesn't know what her needs are. I ask her what needs the OM was meeting, but again she says she doesn't know. How do we discover what these are? (I don't know what they are, because if I did I would have tried to meet them...)

I must prefice this by saying that I just found out that she only this afternoon called (against my insistance of Harley's approach to a email/letter) and ending contact with the OM. Even then she was reluctant, while at the same time telling me that she wanted to work on saving our marriage. Although I guess this is normal.

Aaaahhhh, this is so hard.....Thank you all for your responses and help. I'm hopeful from those who have gone through this before and are in the process of recovery. Thank you all for you responses and support.

Have you checked out the emotional needs questionairre here? Usually women's top needs are talking and spending time together. But check it out. Hers could be domestic support or SF, who knows.

I suggest you spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together right now, to try to start rebuilding things.

Also if your wife is a therapist, I would encourage her to read the stuff here, just for general knowledge. There are so many people that face adultery, and the program here is proven.

believer - thanks again for the advice.

I have tried to get her to read this site. I have been bringing it up casually at least once a day. Last night when I brought it up she said that I needed to back off as she didn't like to pressure, and would get to it. I guess I am not approaching it right, but then again maybe she just needs time. The fear I have is that I tried to get her to read Harley's book Give and Take 6 months ago when I finally got clued in that she was having an EA. And she gave me the same response to back off and she would get to it. Problem is that she never did. Maybe this will change now that she has stopped all contact with OM. What are your thoughts on this?

On the needs front, I need some advice. She has told be that one need she has is a need for affection and that I have not been meeting that need (while the OM was). I have been trying to give it, but I think because she was still seeing the OM, it was being wasted. Now that she has left the OM and told me of the PA, everytime I try to give affection (SF is way out of the question), all I can think about is her & OM. It makes me struggle and I think she senses this as she has told some of her friends that when I am affectionate she feels I am 'trying/forcing and not doing it out of love'. I guess this will change over time, but in the meantime how to I meet her need for affection (especially as this is one of the needs the OM met)?

Does anyone have any advice on how to know if my MC is pro-marriage?

Also, I guess an even harder question is how do I know if my WS IC is pro-marriage. Do I have the right to ask my WS what goes on in her IC? My WS does tell me some of it. I'm torn as the IC tell my WS that she needs to work on finding who she is (which I feel, maybe defensively, is at the expense of our marriage), but the IC also tells her that I do need some of her needs. (Sorry this is about all I know of the IC's advice). I did find out the the IC told my WS that she is in love with the ideal me and not the real me. Not sure what that means or if its pro-marriage or what. What do you who have been to pro-marriage IC think?

My WS really likes her IC, so I not even sure how or if I could pursuade her to change IC....

Sorry to bump up my post but my WS just saw her IC and I was wondering if someone could provide advice on knowing if the MC & IC's are pro-marriage.


Also would it be a good idea to give my WW the emotional needs questionaire or should I just try to figure it out myself? To complicate matters, my WW is slow in accepting this site.

I did have another question which I am hoping to get some help on. My WS went to see her IC last night. She text messaged me afterwards and told me it was a good session. When she goe home (she went to her Yoga right after IC), after dinner, I casually brought up that she had said it was a good session. She answered yes and then dropped it.

I really want to know what was good about the session. Especially if its good. (In the back of my mind I am afraid that her IC is giving her poor anti-marriage advice, I have no real reason for this fear, except my own crazy imagination) Do I have the right to know what goes on in her private IC session? Will it hurt our chances by not knowing? If I should know, how do I tell her I want to know, without her getting angry with me for intruding on her personal space? What do those who have done IC and MC think?


Guess this also touches again on my previos posting on how to know if an IC/MC is pro-marriage.

Well last night we had a heart-to-heart talk. It was soo hard.

Well let me first say that yesterday I went and played tennis with one of her friends who is the wife of one my friends who is teaching me tennis (taking MB advice on exercise). She has also encouraged me to do some exercise with this friend as we are both looking for jobs right now and have some free time. (Although I guess looking at it, maybe she is trying to make herself feel less guilty of what she did by encouraging me to spend time with another woman, even if it is her friend). Well, I was telling her about the tennis and a little puppy I saw that made me think of WW. Usually she is interested to her about puppies as our dog just died, but this time she was not enthusiatic at all. So I asked her about it. She at first said everything was alright. But then I told her what I was seeing in her response and asked her if it bothered her that I was playing tennis with her friend. Well she got aggitated at me and told me that it was hard to understand how me hanging with he friend was different than her and OM hanging (she added that even if they had done something wrong - ie. PA, still no mention of EA!) as she 'just wanted to be friends' with OM. I calmly but firmly told her that she was not and could not be 'just friends' with OM. I then said that it was not just the PA that was wrong and hurtful, but that the EA was also wrong and hurtful. She seemed taken back, but I still don't believe she understands that the EA was just as wrong as the PA. I told her that I was sorry I had made her think that I would ever hurt her and if it bothered her and that to me it seemed that it did, that my priority was working on our marriage and that I wouldn't do things with her friend. She replied that I could do what I liked. I replied that I cared for her and did not want to hurt her and that I would not do it. She simply replied that I could do what I wanted and dropped the conversation and walked off. Let me just say that in the later conversation (which I will describe in another post below) that she appreciated that I would be willing to not do things with her friend, but now that I had told her and asked her, it would be ok with her....

Well this little incident tells me a lot. Tell me if you think my thinking is correct or if I've missed something.
1) she still is in denial that the EA was wrong
2) I is looking for ways to justify what she did by trying to encourage me to do something similar (more on EA front I think).
3) I need to be more thoughtful of how my actions might be perceived by her.
4) I'm getting better at be able to be calm and tell her that both her PA and EA were wrong and hurtful to me.

Any thoughts on this incident?

Ok, let me get to our discussion last night. I need a lot of advise on this one, and what should I think.

I will try to keep this a little shorter than my last post and give just the highlights.

First she said that she was confused what she is confused what she herself wants. When I pressed on this she said that she was confused if she wanted to work on saving our marriage. She feels that there is so much in it that is not right. (I have not been meeting her needs).

She gave the example that I was not the aggressive one in the relationship and that she was always taking that role and has come to realize that she wants to take the passive role. She said that she wants me to be more 'intuitive' with what she needs without having to talk about it. For example last summer during a break from my schooling, I told her that I needed to talk a break from working. At the time she had told me that she thought this was a good idea as I had been working so hard and was stressed out. Well, the problem is that she was unhappy in her job and was getting paid squat (only enough to live month to month). Eventhough I remember bringing up this fact and that I should at least try to get an intership not matter how little it paid or how stressed I was, she had replied that it was ok. Now I find out in our conversation last night, that she expected me to ignore what she was telling me and to realize that that decision was not what she or we really needed. I can see her point (I do need to work hard on meeting this need of her), but I feel she is somehow trying to justify her actions. Am I being definsive her or could my thoughts be right?


Ok so I'm not being short. Sorry. Thanks for reading this far. I will continue on another reply.

I have been trying to make our 'home' a warm and inviting space and have been trying to meet my WW needs. One of which is affection and admiration. She told me that she felt that I was not being real and that I was just suppressing my real emotions about what has happened. I replied that my actions were real and from my heart and not acting. I told her that she had told me that she needed affection and admiration from me and that I had not been meeting this need in the past. And I was now trying to meet it.

I told her that I was not suppressing my real emotions and that I was really hurt and sad etc. I told her that I was going through the stages of Loss, the loss of our old marriage. I said that yes sometimes it is hard to cope with some of these feelings and that my seeing an IC (which today is my first day) will help a lot.

WW replied that we were at different stages and while I want to try to work on our relationship and marriage, she is not sure wat she wants to do. She says she loves me, but not as fully as should or as much as I love her. I told her that I was trying to show her how much she means to my and that I love her, by trying to change what was wrong and to try to meet her needs. I asked during this part of the conversation if she was thinking of resuming her relationship with OM and she replied that wasn't even a thought in her head. hmmm. I get the real sense she is on the fence as whether to stay and work on the relationship.

She said that she need to first understand herself and what she need and she thinks I need to do the same. I replied that yes this may be true but that we can also work on our relationship at the same time. For example I can try to meet some of her needs as they come up.

This part of the conversation makes me think that it would be so easy for her to go her own way and by the time she 'found out what she needed', it would be too late for our relationship as I would no longer be meeting any of her needs and she would find alternative people to fill them. Is this just my own insecurity and being scared of loosing her? I guess I need show her that I can meet more of her needs.

This also makes me wonder what her IC is telling her, and if the IC is pro-marriage. How would I know this?

Well let me cut it off there as I need to go, but let me end by saying that I left the conversation with a pit in my stomach. It was definately a down period. I awoke in the night feeling overwhelmed by all the emotions, and just sobbed. She eventually woke up and came over and comforted me. She told me that she really did love me.

Thanks for reading. Any thoughts on these long postings?

Your wife is still in the fog. My wife said many of the same things after D-day... It is funny how your wife started analyzing her life at 30...Mine did the same thing at 29. I wonder if this is common for women to have a midlife crisis at 30. Any FWW want to comment?

After D-day, my wife told me that she didn't know if she loved me anymore. She wanted to stay friends with OM. She was thinking about moving out to "find" herself. She never seemed as remorseful as she should have. She rewrote our history and only looked at the negatives of our past. I think this is all fog talk. You need to do plan A. Beware of love busters. Get her to write a No Contact letter. If you suspect the affair or any communication is continuing, then expose it to her family and friends.

You can't reason with her right now. She is in the fog.
Just like you, I was pushing my wife and wanted her to commit to fixing our relationship. I was looking for reassurance. Things got better when I backed off.

Once your wife agrees to NC and goes throuh withdrawl, you can start building up your account in her love bank. You should both fill out the EN questionairs. Most women want conversation and affection. when you meet her needs, her feelings of love will come back.

October - Thanks! Its funny how many stories have similarities. Funny still that almost everyone feels they are alone.

One question I did have is you stated that .
Should we fill these out now or when WW goes through withdrawal?

Thanks!

The saga continues.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Please see my other posting and let me know what your thoughts are....
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=2931894

Also an advice on when to complete the EM Questionaire?

THX

Ok I know some have complained about too many posting being about sex, but I need some advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Last night I brought up the subject of sex with my FWW. She brushed me off with quick response about something else. I stuck to my guns and asked her if she was at all interested in having sex with me. She said that she wasn't sure she could, given what I was going through. She felt bad for me and so didn't want to do it for that reason. (By this she is talking about my emotions that have been rather raw, and also the fact that last week I was still having a problem getting the image of her and OM out of my mind.) I must mention here that I have been initiating more affection with her, such as holding hands, kiss on the check, peck on the lips, putting my arm around her, and snuggling in bed.

Part of me is glad to hear that she cares how I feel, then another part of me thinks she is full of crap is still thinks of OM and is not committed to NC. My thinking is still fuzzy giving the D-day was only less than 2 weeks ago, so I need some help understanding this response.

So, to all those out there who have gone through this, is this a 'normal' response? Or do you think there may be other reasons behind this response? HELP please!

DChelp,

I'm in the same position. I would like to hear the responses as I'm about at my wits end.

Does any one have any advice for myself and Eagle15?

Any comments would be appreciated. What was your experience? How did your SL proceed?

Don't have any good answers, but rest assured that if and when my WW finds her back home it will be quite sometime before I would even be thinking about sex with her, certainly not a couple of weeks regardless of my libido's screams to do so. This type of thing IMO could take a couple of months and many counseling sessions to overcome and may have to stop at kissing, cuddling, hugging and whispering sweet nothings for sometime???