Let me first say THANK YOU to everyone for their posts & stories, I have been lurking for about a week now (DDay: 1/26/06) and this entire nightmare has been put in a perspective I never imagined, and reading everyone's posts helps tremendously.

Background: WS & I have been together for 13+yrs, married almost 5, have a 15m son. He has worked at his co. for 5yrs, started the A with a coworker 2 yrs ago. I caught him by finding text messages from OW & confronting him. He told me everything I wanted to know (& more), said he wanted to spend the rest of his life proving his love to me. Said he would quit his job that day, would call OW up right then & end it. Said alot of things along those lines that first night, come to find out later that he was afraid I would throw him out (I had always said zero tolerance on infidelity).

He went into work the next day & told OW I knew everything & it was over with her. They have had 2 conversations since then - he asked how she was doing, and she said very angry. 2nd convo - he was joking w/her about being angry at a box she was ripping up & she said he was Cruel (WTHE). So after confronting her he then left on a business trip, which he begged me to come on with him, so me & the baby went. Said he wanted to make things work with me, but wasn't sure if he could overcome the guilt he feels about what he did. I said not my problem. After being on this website I brought up some things that were not being fulfilled in our marriage which led to the affair. I feel like we've made alot of progress already in terms of being honest with what happened in the past. He went to IC last night for first time, we have MC tonight. Now to today -

WS was out of work for 8months last year (destroyed his esteem & self-worth), eventually ended up back at his former co. (where OW works). They are in the same small group together, so contact every day is pretty much standard. Is saying now he doesn't think he can mentally handle having to quit his job after going thru last yrs fiasco w/being unemployed. Has admitted that he misses OW & isn't ready to get over her (so typical addiction like I've read).

Here is what I need help with today, right now - he & OW (FOW I guess?) have a project they have to do Friday evening at work, and Saturday. Can't get out of it no if's and's or but's (unless he quit). Do I think anything physically is going to happen? I don't think so, but I am dang sure that the topic of what has happened is going to come up. What do I do with myself while he's at work with her???????

The past few days I have transitioned from hurt wounded animal, to I guess what Plan A is all about, meeting his needs but still staying true to myself. So do I go fwd w/Plan A since tech the A isnt over since they work together?

I can see now why the divorce rate is so high, it would be so much easier to walk away from all this, but I am committed to at least trying.

Thanks if you're still with me !

casey - very good so far. Much better than average.

About this work thingy. Will they be alone? If so, that's a deal breaker. No can do.

Is the OW married? If so, her H needs to know and the way to do that is for YOUR H to tell him. Yep, not a pretty sight, but the sure way for him to help your recovery.

it's a deal breaker period. contact . out period.

and I agree with WAT - if OW is married, it's time to expose.

Yep, it's just the two of them on this project. So two questions- how does he get out of doing it without quitting(he's the only one in the group who does this one thing), and second, how do I tell him it's a deal breaker. If he works with her this w/e then what, he has to move out?

I personally think he is wanting to have some alone time with her to talk about how the A ended & whatever else he feels the need to talk to her about. Part of me feels like at least after this w/e, he will have gotten some closure with her, since he keeps saying he doesn't know what he wants to do.

She is married btw, and her H works at their co. as well. Not that it's my concern, but it would be a cluster I think if/when he finds out. I was ******-bent on telling him, until I decided my energy was better spent concentrating on myself right now.

WS said this morning that he felt that some of the things I've been doing (like going to the gym for myself) are helping him figure things out. He told me that sthing that bothered him was how much of a home-body I had become, which I have to agree I stopped doing alot of things for myself. But I don't get how me doing more for myself helps meet any of his EN/PN?

thank you for your insight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

leaving now for our first MC session...won't be able to check back until tomorrow....

Listen up and listen up good.

As Dr Harley says, a wayward spouse things the best way to end an affair is by taking affair partner on a Caribeen Cruise. NO NO NO. A No Contact letter needs to be written with your approval and sent to OW.

If they work together Friday NIGHT and Saturday, they will be rutting like pigs before the sun has set.

You MUST end the affair and by far the best way of doing that is by exposure. And OW's H is the best and most effective place to start that. You MUST kill the affair stone cold dead. Don't waver on that.

Oooooooooooo, Baby!

Here's your offer for the weekend:

He goes to work AND takes you and the baby AND OW's H has to come as well.

Anything else, no can do AND you spill the beans to the OW's H - because you can't trust your H to do it at that point.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES threaten and inform your H that you may contact OW's H. Understand?

Alternatively, you inform OW's H BEFORE the weekend.

Telling him is vitally important. Wouldn't you have wanted to be told?

WAT

The desire for "closure" is the quickest route back into the A that I know of.

You will NEVER heal while he is still working with her.

If one is going to "close" something that means they don't see them again. He has no intention of doing that, I assure you. He is going for another tryst. If he is serious about ending his affair, he should never ever see her again. But I suspect he is not willing to do that.

Casey, your situation is HOPELESS unless all contact ends. What you are expecting is absolutely impossible. The affair will NEVER end until contact ends. And your marriage has no hope for recovery because every contact will make withdrawal impossible. And every time he contacts the OW will put you back to Day 1 of recovery. Surely, you realize this? It is like dying a death of a thousand cuts.

To imagine that the affair will end while they continue to see each other is about like sending an alcoholic into the bar every day and expecting him to get sober. It ain't going to happen, my friend.

And it especially won't end if you help them hide their dirty little secret from the OW's H. You pretty much ENSURE that the affair lives by doing that. Affairs can only survive under the veil of secrecy and you have become their enabler by helping them keep it a secret. One has to ask whose side you are on because I can't tell.

Here is what Harley says about continued contact:


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

You are all right, and I know it. I can't let them work together alone, that is just ridiculous. I have to admit I am scared to my core about how to handle this. WH was on the verge of a mental breakdown when he was unemployed, and I don't want to put either of us in that situation again. I can deal with WH seeing OW every day at work, if he is looking for another job & there is a plan to leave within a stated time period.

I am pretty sure that WH will not tell OW H about the A. And yes you are right, if it was me I would ABSOLUTELY want to have knowledge about the A before they work alone together this weekend.

i am just sick about this, as crazy as it sounds. I know it's not my responsibility to worry about this, and that it's WH & OW's actions that have brought it about, but that doesn't mean I don't care still.

I am scared that this will push WH away by putting my foot down. I thought what I was doing by allowing WH to continue working with OW, while doing my Plan A, was what Dr. Harley says here -

The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended.


I look at it like WH choosing the OW by not leaving his job or looking for another job. I guess my Plan A involves WH leaving the job, and if he doesn't very soon, or at the very least start looking for another job, I go to Plan B.

WH admitted a few days ago he is not ready to be over her, as much as that hurt I was not surprised. I said seeing her every day does not help him get over the A.

MC last night- not sure if it accomplished much, other than talking about how our life was leading up to the A. Discussed EN on both our parts that were not being met at that time, but since I was pg I could focus on the baby. He asked what he could do to help with this w/e, I said not to do it. He said it's his job & doesn't know how to get out of that, she is in charge of one part & he is in charge of the other, so unless he quits which he can't mentally handle doing, he has to do it.

THIS JUST SUCKS, but reading how others here have survived helps.

IMO, this is very common but scary thinking. Allowing fear to restrain you from establishing boundaries is asking for trouble. Establishing CLEAR boundaries is going to be essential for you and for him.

Plan A does take into account that your WS is still actively involved in the affair. However, you should be clearly stating what your boundaries are. Seeing OW alone no matter what the reason is surely a boundary that needs to be addressed.

BTW, I made the mistake of not enforcing this boundary with disatrous consequences. It will only serve to feed the affair.



You Plan A needs to include doing everything in your power to stop this affair and that includes total exposure. Again, I've been there, it's scary. Probably one of the hardest things I did. My first posts on this forum show my absolute terror when he reacted to my first exposure. As you'll hear many times, he will get over that. How long can he really stay mad for you revealing what he says is such a great and important thing? Your marriage WILL NOT begin to be salvagable until the affair has stopped. THAT is what your Plan A should include. Do not become a doormat!! That is not what Plan A is. You should be more fearful of your husband not ending the affair than what his reaction will be to his own actions being known.


Can he mentally handle the destruction of his marriage?

SH once told me that I was my XH's best chance for real happiness. That's a big statement! I, the BS, was his best chance for happiness. Why? Because I was the mother of his children and his partner. Because he would eventually regret the abandonment of his family and the permanent destruction he left behind him. Because if he ended the affair and worked on the marriage he would never regret having done everything he could. He will always have in the back of his mind the regret of not trying to save it though if he doesn't end the affair.

I tell you this because it IS an awesome responsibility for a BS who decides to work through infidelity. It's hard. It's painful and it's unfair.

In the end, right now it is YOU that ends up with that burden because he isn't seeing clearly right now. He's acting crazy and throwing it all away.

You know him, I don't. But in the end, what will be worse for him...not tomorrow or next month or next year.

Ultimately is he more able to handle looking for another job or loosing his family and dealing with that reality not until another family comes along, but forever?

FIM

Dr. Harley would advise you to do everything short of taking out a billboard to drive this affair to its end. He would advise you to go into Plan A, and stop covering up their affair for them. You are AIDING AND ABETTING this affair by keeping their secret. You fear that it will "push him away?" Casey. Did you not notice that your H is already pushed away? He is having an affair.

He will not grow closer to you if you continue to enable his affair, I assure you! He can only grow closer to you if the affair ends and the affair will end if it is exposed.

You say you are afraid, but you are afraid of the wrong things. The real threat here is the AFFAIR, not your H's temporary anger over being exposed.

Exposure is ruinous to affairs, casey, and you should be doing everything in your power to bust up this affair. That is your only hope.

Exposing the affair at work may very well facilitate his career decision so that may not be an issue. But your first step has to be exposure to the OWH. It simply cannot work by keeping their secret for them.

Did you read what Dr Harley said here? Read:

Casey,
You said:


then you said:


I read your post and it brings me back to my own D-day (12/6/04). Casey, don't let them work together AT ALL!!

My WH did not work with OW on a daily basis but she was the only contact person for two HUGE jobs out of town that he made all kinds of excuses why he couldn't give up.
That is how it all started -(and WHY it continued). They HAD to spend time together and of course conversation got off to a more personal level and they talked about their problems, had lunch etc and it spiraled out of control from there.
ANY contact whatsover is not good! I never exposed to OW's boyfriend (now husband) because OW was keeping me in the loop about the times my H would try and contact her and I didn't want to give up that source of information. OW of course told me that she did tell her BF and all he wanted to know was if it was over.

Later I found out that she never did tell her BF and I sure wish I'd have pursued telling him myself. So, OW did her fair share of lying to me also but she also was a great source of "information" for me.

I just read Melodaylane's post about 3 times. Every single word of it rings true.

That bargaining thing that WS's do, I let that go on for months! When a person looks back on things and see's what they should've done, it all makes so much sense now.
No I haven't followed all of Dr Harley's principles to a T.
A NC letter was never written because WH would not agree to it. But I do agree with a lot of the principles.

Some WS here are willing to take VERY drastic measures to assure no contact and getting a new job is one of them. My H was also unemployed for nearly a year so I know how trying that can be with no money coming in. The jobs I referred to above were "side" jobs while he was unemployed so he could bring in some income. He of course said that is why he HAD to do those jobs. Dummy me, I believed him. We would've squeaked by I am sure and maye the A never would've got so involved!! But I let I let it happen right in front of my face!

Dont do that to yourself Casey!

One part I am not clear about with your situation. You said he started the affair with the co-worker 2 years ago. Did the A go on continually for the entire two years, even while he was not working with her anymore? Did he leave the company because of the A - to try and get away from OW? And you just found out recently, never knew or suspected anything right?




Suzy

Sad to say, the ball is in your court here. You can have things continue as they have, or you can take the steps which will bring the affair to an end....because if he is still seeing her everyday, it ain't over!

Expose to OWH, your WH's boss, his family, your family now.
Wlll this make your WH mad, you bet, but would you rather have him angry or not at all.

It isn't fair, but you are the one who needs to take charge here because your WH is not currently thinking very clearly and will make decisions that are not healthy for your future.

Who

geez sorry for the double quote there -- and I wrote it not Suzy as it says !

So you plan on lying for him? You realize that you are his greatest enabler, don't you? You are ensuring that the affair continues at your expense and the expense of your marriage and the expense of the well being of your children. Children are devastated by divorce. And the affair is the greatest threat to your marriage. Your marriage is much more likely to end in divorce because you won't do anything to save it.

Just know that there is absolutely nothing we can do to help you if you refuse to lift a finger to help yourself.

Casey,

OK, expose to the other woman's husband. He gets angry of course and tells his W to quit!!!

OMG!! Now the OW is forced to quit the job. PROBLEM SOLVED!!

You said that your H was the only one that could do whatever it is they are going to do this weekend. So would his boss rather see him or the OW leave the job?

Maybe the boss needs to know also.

You said that the OW's husband worked there too? And he doesn't have a clue about the A?

Exposure is the answer.

Stay strong!

k

With respect, you're still not getting it.

Exposure is UP TO YOU. To spell it out, YOU expose to OW'sH, not him. You also expose to anyone else who can influence your husband to be sure the affair is dead.