Okay, I realize this topic at this point probably has no place on a Divorce and Dating site (except that it does relate to my daughter, who does have an impact on my dating relationships). So I'm posting...

In doing a little research on the Iowa Legislature's website I found a bill currently in the House that addresses the change from "parental notification" to "parental consent". Looks like someone else thinks it's important, too. I've asked what I can do to show my support for the bill and asked to be kept informed.

LL

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Sorry...

Hope she will make decision to live pleased and happy with.

Yeah, it's all their fault you threw a tantrum because they didn't illegally divulge confidential medical information. How dare they refuse to break the law to satisfy you.

Awwww... C'mon MOS, tell us how you really feel, no seriously, don't hold anything back. I think we're treading on slippery ground on this one because we're dealing with Parents Rights vs A MINOR'S Right to Privacy and a MINOR'S Right to Seek Risky Medical Procedures without Parental Consent.

I have to say, I would have not been a happy camper myself if my daughter was in ANY doctors office and I wasn't allowed access. I dunno, I think the state has over stepped it's bounds on this issues and stripped the parent of any rights, which IMVHO is not a good thing....

ROFL. So your personal opinion is that you don't agree with the law, so others should break it for the convenience of those who agree with you?

How very sad. Should you get your required parental consent law passed, by your logic it doesn't apply anyway, since if anyone disagrees with it others have to break it to satisfy them.

Geez, MOS, do you have a reading problem? Cause I never said any of that. I did say that I understood her and would have been upset as well and further that yes I disagree with laws that take away parents rights.

I guess in a sense I was having a call for compassion from you rather than blowing up on someone who is going through a tramatic experience on a very slippery slope issue....

(Trying my best to keep from responding in anger to your last sentence.)

My daughter is a minor. I am her mother, her legal guardian and custodial parent who is responsible for her health and wellbeing. It seems absurd to me that a minor, who can't legally smoke, drink, vote, sign legal documents, or for that matter even get a tattoo can consent to a medical procedure that is not without serious health risks and do so without any kind of parental consent.

Let me throw in a hypothetical scenario: Because consent of parents isn't required, what if my daughter gets the abortion, and because consent isn't require nor can medical information be released, I have no idea when it happens. My daughter is 16 and has little idea how to take care of herself. She's not good with medications and she ignores health issues until they become severe. What if she has complications (bleeding, infection, etc) from the procedure? What if she doesn't contact me if this happens (because she's embarassed or whatever--it was embarassment about a gyn exam that kept her from going on The Pill in the first place)? What if she ends up infertile or very ill because of lack of proper medical care, because her parent wasn't aware of what happened or when it happened?

My point is that if consent was required for an abortion in Iowa, I wouldn't have even been faced with the situation I was in because I would have known she wasn't there for the abortion appointment. In this case, I knew she could do it without consent, and because no one could give me even a smidgeon of information, I assumed something that wasn't true, I was VERY angry because it not only involved my minor child but my unborn grandchild, and I hadn't even been given the opportunity to talk to my daughter beforehand. And yes, I was very angry and very emotionally distraught. I'm willing to bet I'm not the first parent who has responded this way and I certainly won't be the last. There are very few situations in my life where I've felt the pain and the total inability to be involved in such a critical situation with my own minor child as I did that day. (And for those who are pro-choice, they won't understand this next point, but also the agony I felt at the assumed destruction of a little human life who is related to me...and I realize if she chooses to abort, I will go through that last piece all over again.)

Can't remember if I mentioned this before, but the police who originally were called to nail me for trespassing ended up being very supportive, and one even called the city attorney for me while we were waiting, to see what could be done, and they not only encouraged me to be there for my daughter afterwards (thinking at the time the abortion was happening) because they said she'd need me in a few years when it all hit her and she had the regrets, but once she did call me, one of the officers also spoke with her on the phone to try and facilitate a meeting so that I would have the opportunity to talk to her before the REAL appointment.

At any rate, MOS, I can't remember right now if you are a parent or not. Because I'm pro-life in general, I guess I don't know how I would have responded if I were pro-choice and facing the same situation.

All I know is that while I have resigned myself to accepting the decision she decides to make (which has not yet completely been decided) and will always love her no matter what her decision, I AM pursuing whatever I can to support a change in Iowa law that would require not just "notification" but "consent" before the procedure can be performed on a woman under 18. It won't help this situation, but if the law were changed, maybe it would help some other parent in my situation down the road.

LL

Blowing up? LOL, it's funny you should say that and complain about reading comprehension at the same time. All I did was point out lordslady's blameshifting, when that blameshifting can only harm her.

If that bothers you, it's worth taking a look at your own compassion. Declining to call someone on blaming their tantrums on others is the opposite of compassion in my book.

LH,

You and MOS were doing your little back-and-forth while was posting.

Anyway, thanks for the support. And yes, this situation truly bites. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and I could see the pain in my daughter last night as I was driving her back to Iowa City (as I'd promised her I'd do if she'd just come home for a while). Ultimately she's the one who has the really difficult decision to make and I ache for her.

But as for the whole pro-life/pro-choice debate (which I think is fueling the argument from MOS and some other moreso than the parental rights vs. privacy thing), I am very used to being in the minority, because I've been pro-life since I was a teenager (ironically, from the point I did a persuasive speech in high school, originally on pro-choice because I was a liberal little non-Christian thing back then, and once I'd compiled all my supporting documentation, read the articles and viewed the photos, I was sick--and have been pro-life ever since).

Anyway, my pro-life beliefs are a part of why I feel the way I do about my daughter. But the "tantrum" as it was accurately described was completely caused by my parental rights being non-existant and my ability to be involved being denied. I was furious.

LL

LL, I understand your explanation, and I did when I read it the first time.

That still does not make it remotely ok to throw tantums when people refuse to break the law for you.

Nor does it make it anything other than harmful *to you* to blame others for your own tantrums.

MOS,

While I recognize my tantrum did little to further my cause and so was pointless, I don't feel guilt or a need to apologize for reacting the way I did.

In this case, I'm sorry but the law, in my eyes, is ridiculous and harmful, and it was a moment where I really could have cared less what the law was. My mission was to be allowed the opportunity to protect my daughter (or at least make sure she had discussed all options with her parent and not just some abortion clinic nurse) and perhaps my grandchild. And when my ability to do that was being stripped away, I came out swinging, so to speak.

LL

Amen!!!!!

Being denied access to a child whom you are trying to protect, yeah, I think most parents would do just about anything to try to work around that, including throwing a tantrum....

LL, I may not agree with your relationship issues but I'm with you on this one and hope that you do follow through with the pending law change so that other parents do not have to go through the terror of helplessness you must have felt.

I have to say that MOS has a point. LL, you are in control of yourself, your responses to outside sources, your attitude, your anger. I can totally understand your being upset and angry at the situation you found yourself in but you should not blame them for your response. That was totally in your control.

About the only times I've thrown fits or tantrums have to do with one of my sons or the other so I can understand your position. But they were only doing their job and they were doing it within the confines of the laws as they are currently on the books in your state.

I'm not blaming anyone for the way I reacted (that includes myself).

What I'm angry about is the law itself and I was reacting to the impact it was having on my daughter and myself at that moment. And the person or persons who were upholding this law got the brunt of my anger.

LL

And by the way, not going back and asking my daughter if she wished for me to come back to speak with her, but instead telling me I'd have to speak with a supervisor and then doing a quickie exam and hustling her and her boyfriend out the back door of the clinic while they had me waiting to speak to the supervisor--it may be upholding the law in the legal sense, but it seems rather underhanded to me.

LL

First, I'd just like to say that I'm sorry for the pain and turmoil you and your daughter are experiencing right now. I hope you can find some time to take care of yourself - often, during times of stress when we need it most, we care for ourselves the least.

I just want to quickly comment on what you said above about the 'underhandedness' of the clinic. I suspect that they made a calculated decision to keep you away from your daughter as part of their normal safety policy.

Now, I'm sure you wouldn't hurt your daughter - or probably anyone else for that matter - but, in this day and age, you have to be very careful with people. You don't know who's carrying a gun or is capable of killing patients and/or staff.

All the staff witnessed was a very upset woman who was (in your own words) throwing a tantrum. They couldn't possibly have known that if they'd let you back there violence wouldn't have occurred. Think of it this way - had it been some other highly upset, volitile parent, going back into a patient area (possibly with a weapon) would you want the staff to let that person back there where your daughter might be being treated?

I understand that you were upset and even why you were upset. I know you don't like the laws as they stand. But, the clinic has a responsibility to keep its staff and patients safe from people who might be emotionally overwrought enough to do something harmful. As much as you might never do such a thing - they can't afford to take those kinds of chances.

Mys

How utterly shameful. I can't help but feel sorry for someone who is so far gone that they think throwing tantrums at strangers who refuse to break the law for them is ok.

MOS, we've agreed on some things in the past but I think you're in left field on this one and taking jabs at LL ain't going to help her.

But I do agree it's utterly shameful. I can't help but to feel sorry for someone who can't relate to the confusion, frustration, and pain LL experienced and thinks rubbing her nose in an already tragic situation is OK.....

LOL, you saying I can't relate and me not being able to relate are not the same thing, nor even related. Hmmm, that seems to have beaten that word to death.

Sorry Bill, but in this case your notion of compassion is just too narrow and limited in my opinion, especially if it means claiming an inability on my part that's a product of your imagination.

Should have been all of this BEFORE she got pregnant and maybe she wouldn't find herself in a clinic wrestling with the notion of what to do with HER unborn baby.

She's old enough to make the baby..she's old enough to decide what SHE wants to have happen. Yes you may have your opinion as to what she should or shouldn't do..but the ultimate decision is hers alone. It is HER body. Like it or not.

MOS..I'm with you on this one also...seems like she's always shifting blame...whether it's her daughter who has no respect for her or her man she says she shouldn't have sex with but does.