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But you have no clue on what a Christian should do in regards to their faith or in regards to church matters. So why should a Christian take advice fro msomeone that doesnt knwo what they are talking about? If my car is broken down, I am not going to ask my surgeon on how to fix it. He may be a smart guy...but he hasnt a clue about cars! I am shocked and amazed at your clairvoiancy... and a little concerned that you may be touched by satan.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> since you KNOW I am not a Christian.. hmmmmmmmm news to me... better tell my Pastor whom I see every Sunday Am at 10 when not working.. Ark, if yo uare a Christian, then my apologies on saying you werent. I meant to say, which was what I was discussing, was that unbelievers have no clue on these areas. better pull my kids from Cathechism.
better cancel those communion plans...
hmmm lets see....
better realize to prove to you I am a Christian that I study every Churches laws and bylaws so I become worthy of advising them all knowingly what they should do...without enought information to barely make an educated choice like so many others...in the beginning of this post... Dont start with this Ark! You didnt even try to discern what that church does or doesnt do. As FH said, the original post said Church of Christ. They have their way of implementing Matthew. All I said was that the poster should follow that. I have no problem with what came once she came back and clarified things.... She was clear in the beginning...at least to me! but the begining was heresay...gossip and leaps and leaps of logic...in MY opinion... These things were there...which is why I said she needed to take it to the church elders. and cruel as if the poster needs WARNINGS as to who to READ or not READ...
and now x number of pages in to this..It is revealed because I don't advise this poster what to do I am not a Christian...
oy vey...
ARK Not what I said. I said and meant to say that an unbeliever (any unbeliever) is not qualified to advise on what to do with a Christian church. Your church, my church, this particular church...all have the passage in Matthew to follow. If they deviate from it, then they have deviated from God. But a Christian church can implement Matthew in a few, minorly different ways. How they do that wasnt important to the discussion. That Endures goes through what Matthew (and other Scriptures say) is what is important. And the basis of what I and FH have been saying!!!! In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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foreverhers..
bottom line is I believe that the original poster is smart enough to discern which advice given is applicable to the church that this is occurring and does not now or ever need your warning of non-believers..
cause you might be wrong...I just got accused of being a non believer...all because I never have posted exact scripture on what she should do and not do..
it's a silly silly silly game...
anyone identifying others of being believers or non..
and very very offensive...
I should know having just experienced it..
and it's a slippery slope...where does it end..
should every new bs that comes here be grilled on their beliefs and what church they attend...and then focus all posts on which elder they need to expose this to...
ARK
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God did not accomplish this. Government prosecutors did (one of the few things the government has accomplished lately! Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." Thank you AskMe. As always, Scripture says it all! In His arms. Baloney, MM. The authorities are either elected by voters or appointed by Governors or the President. See my other post. You indicated the church "handled" the pedophiles and needed no outside influence. No where did you indicate you had any problem with that. That, to me, indicates that you condone the church's (in)action. If my conclusion was incorrect, and you don't approve of how it was "handled," then I stand corrected. As for intolerance, I can say for certain that I have never, ever, seen more displays of intolerance than what I have seen from the Christian community, both here on this board and in the state where I live. Christians have actually come up here, staged protests, and called for "death to gays," among other things. It is indeed sickening.
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Dont start with this Ark! You didnt even try to discern what that church does or doesnt do yes I did I googled them... it was all very confusing... I didnt' see a tab on what we do when the pastors wife is cheating though... sorry.. I apologize if it was clear to you....from the begining... mortarman is it NOT up to the poster to discern what is Godly advice applicable to their church..not yours not foreverhers... being a Christian does not equal all knowing what to do.. I would think that people that are members of her church would be the ones to advise... right?? and the statements about the pastor condoning in my opinion were made pre-maturely as well.... there are plenty of Christians working in the jungles that are NOT instant authorities on what the church should do if a pastors wife is cheating on the pastor.... and some that may think they do ...and just might be WRONG but it sounds like you are saying that being a Christian is equal to all knowing...instantly..just add Jesus... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ARK^^
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God did not accomplish this. Government prosecutors did (one of the few things the government has accomplished lately! Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." Wrong, wrong, wrong. You need a reality check in a huge way. Here's some info on district attorney and judicial selection in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the United States of America, where many of these offenses took place: It is a fact that judges (at county level) are selected via gubernatorial appointment. Don't believe me? Here's the link: http://www.ajs.org/js/MA_methods.htm. No mention of God anywhere on that page. But, the law above Massachusetts law, does say something about this... Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." In terms of prosecutors, it depends on the level. District attorneys, which oversee prosecutions of various crimes in superior courts, are elected by voters in their respective counties. Usually it's assistant DAs that do the actual trial work, and I think they're appointed by the DA. If the trial is in Federal court, the big shot prosecutors are U.S. Attorneys. There are seclected via appointment by the President of the United States. Again, here's documentation of that fact: http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ma/usattorney.html. U.S. judges are also appointed by the President of the United States. If the subject opted for a jury trial, then it's the jury of his peers that decides guilt or innocence. Not God. In all of my research, I found no reference to God appointing any of these people to these positions. I implore you people to get real on matters of criminal justice. Neither God nor the church took care of the victims of pedophilia. The justice system did, at least in terms of prosecuting and sentencing the offenders. Een you are used by God GBH...even when you dont think or want to be!! Now HERE's a question for all you good Christians:
Many of the priests who abused these young boys are now dead. I am sure you think they deserve a place in heaven provided they repented and God forgave them for their sins. I beg to differ. I think these animals ought to burn/rot in ****** for what they did to these countless victims. Oh, they deserve that...I agree. Just as you deserve to be right beside them for the things you have done! Just as I deserve to be right beside them for the things I have done. My sins lead to the same place theirs do. So do yours, GBH! Sorry, not in a very forgiving mood when it comes to this kind of thing. These people are/were animals, and they make me sick. So are the "animals" that commit adultery, or lie, or steal, or do any other sin. Sure, these were very heinous! I agree!. But any sin, no matter the severity, gets the same punishment in the end. That is why I NEVER ask for what I deserve. What I deserve is to "to burn/rot in ****** for what (I) did to.."the victims of my sins, which includes God.I thank God that I will never get what I deserve! In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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I am curious also about WAT's presence. I have no 'history', and WAT may have a great deal of experience, either professionaly, or personally, but I find it interesting about how that entire question was avoided.
Hmm, I also would say I find it unfortunate that we break down at times like this, in such a thread...but, it also shows me more proof personally of God's and Satan's existence. See what this thread has become? See how Satan manages to disrupt things? I could care less if you see it or not. I believe for those who choose to see it, it becomes quite obvious...(much like an affair). And we see also why the attack on this pastor has such great magnitude, the area of affect is much larger, based upon his position.
Good stuff in the posts in this thread. Alot IS revealed. Choosing to see it is an entirely different story.
For the record, I took the posters gender to be feminine. Right from the initial post. And I'm a Christian. So, I just have to guess the assumption was just an honest mistake, rather than a religious classification issue. Gheez.
9 years now ... and some days you still say grrr!
Hang in there.
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Many of the priests who abused these young boys are now dead. I am sure you think they deserve a place in heaven provided they repented and God forgave them for their sins. I beg to differ. I think these animals ought to burn/rot in ****** for what they did to these countless victims. GBH - I, for one, have a very "violent" reaction to anyone who harms a child and I don't care what their religion or non-religion is. However, FORGIVENESS of SIN is what Christ's dieing on the Cross for ALL sinners is all about. We ALL have until we die to repent and receive Christ as our Lord and Savior. If we DO, we will not escape the penalites and consequences for our sins here on earth, but we will be forgiven of the sins. But make no mistake about it, ACCEPTING Christ is not a "get out of jail free" card. It carries a huge responsibility with it to be sincere, and that includes heartfelt sorrow and repentance for the evil we may have perpetrated. By extension of your humanistic logic, (which I concur with if it is NOT a heartfelt, true, conversion), then Paul should NOT be in heaven because his life as "Saul" was heinous and he was directly complicit in the severe persecution and deaths of early Christians. God IS in the business of Forgiveness of sin. THAT is the SAME attitude that we need to bring to our marriages as we forgive our spouses for THEIR heinous adultery. But the "problem" we all have to struggle with is the difficulty in seeing our OWN heinous sins and how they separate US from God and are in need of also being forgiven. We, in the arena of sin and righteousness before God, are all "just as bad" as the pedophiles we are repulsed by, because ALL sin is anathema to God and only through Christ can we obtain forgiveness for our sins. The change of heart and soul in accepting Christ IS the issue, until each person closes the door on the opporunity to make that choice by dieing. Jesus Christ DIED for us to pay the penalty FOR US, WHILE every one of us was hopelessly lost in all sorts of sins; big, little, ugly, heinous....all to give us the opportunity TO repent. And lastly, GBH, there WILL be many on the "Last Day" who Jesus WILL tell, "away from me, I never knew you," despite their protests and claims of being a Christian. Why? Because their claim was "convenient," but not true and not surrendered to God. While I won't "prejudge" because God reserves that right and the right to the "Book of Life," I will not be surprised if most pedophiles, including priests, wind up in the Lake of Fire. God has a "special place" in His heart for Children and His warnings to those who would hurt children are frightening.
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God did not accomplish this. Government prosecutors did (one of the few things the government has accomplished lately! Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." Thank you AskMe. As always, Scripture says it all! In His arms. Baloney, MM. The authorities are either elected by voters or appointed by Governors or the President. See my other post. Your argument isnt with me, GBH. I didnt say these people were appointed by God. I didnt say God does His will through people. I didnt say that. All I said was God said that. Your argument is with Him. And in the end...to believe either GBH or God...well, that's an easy decision! You indicated the church "handled" the pedophiles and needed no outside influence. No I did not. Again, you are reading into what I said and I believe are having serious problems understanding what I said. I dont know how I could have been more clear. Maybe its me...maybe I am not writing this in a way that you can understand. No where did you indicate you had any problem with that. That, to me, indicates that you condone the church's (in)action. GBH, I was having a discussion about whether the secular world should have oversight over how the church runs. Because I didnt come out and say "Before I start, I just want to say that what they did was evil" doesnt mean I condone anything. To me, any half way decent adult wouldnt even have to say that...it is a no-duh! If my conclusion was incorrect, and you don't approve of how it was "handled," then I stand corrected. Good. I never said or meant those things. As for intolerance, I can say for certain that I have never, ever, seen more displays of intolerance than what I have seen from the Christian community, both here on this board and in the state where I live. Christians have actually come up here, staged protests, and called for "death to gays," among other things. It is indeed sickening. On the ones that say "death to gays," I can definitely say that I am in definite doubt that they are Christians. Just because they sleep in a garage doesnt make them a Ford. Christians will be known by their fruit...and if their fruit shows the love of Christ. That instance you speak of is NOT of Christ! Again, I will never excuse a Chritian or the church for doing evil. NEVER! God doesnt either. God says Hebrew 10 that it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. He is talking about believers that are out of line with His word and His will. God is powerful enough to have His will done. Through an atheist. Or a prosecuter. Or thru natural forces. I mean, the very definition of God is that He is omnipotent. He can do as He wishes. And neither you nor any man limit that! So, when He says that He is the one appointing the President of the United States...that doesnt have to mean that He came down out of the Heavens and said "this is my canadidate." It means that the person that makes it to power did so wit ha God that allowed it to happen. A God that uses that person...even an evil ruler...to further His will. You see, even in communist China, under evil rulers today, great things are happening because of those rulers. The Christian church in China is exploding and many people are coming to Christ precisely because of the horrible leadership and conditions there. God is all-powerful. He even uses you GBH! He has used you right here on this thread. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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foreverhers..
bottom line is I believe that the original poster is smart enough to discern which advice given is applicable to the church that this is occurring and does not now or ever need your warning of non-believers.. ARK, I have no doubt that she is "capable." But her post made it clear that she was gathering information on which TO make a decision on how to address the problem. She, futhermore, placed the whole problem in the context of the local church and how the church as a body needed to respond. To be specific, here is what she asked and my response to the specific points. Feel free to comment on the appropriateness or inappropriateness of my responses as you see fit. Quote:
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Does anyone think the minister is actually unaware of his wife's affair with Luke?
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Yes, it's possible. I didn't know for 6 years that my wife was having an affair. Besides, so far, all you've offered is gossip and speculation, so it would be undestandable if the Pastor (or any husband) might react with disbelief, especially if his spouse is a believer and KNOWS God's prohibition against adultery.
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Should a few of us in the congregation meet with the area conference minister?
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No. That is the job of the elected leaders (Deacons, Elders, whatever your church calls those entrusted with the lay ministry of the church). IF they abdicate their responsibility to investigate the rumors and gossip to determine truth or falsehood, then it might be appropriate for someone to approach the previous church leaders for information.
But the "fact finding" needs to begin with the Pastor and his wife, and needs to be discreet and confidential to protect everyone. GOSSIPING must be stopped and NOT entertained by any member of the church. It is a destructive and sinful as any other sin, including adultery.
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No one wants to confront Kathy or Luke.
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And no one should. That is the "job" of Kathy's husband, and/or the Elders of the church, as prescrived in Matthew, to be done in a loving manner and for the purposes of determining the truth and for seeking repentance where it is needed. IF, and only if, the allegations are KNOWN to be true AND if the Pastor and the Elders REFUSE to "confront the sin, in love," then it would be appropriate for a fellow believer to approach them on the basis of being "obedient to God."
Remember, "church discipline" is for members of the church and regular attenders who profess belief in Jesus Christ in order to help restore those who have become ensnared in sin and to protect the body from "tolerance of willful sinning."
Don't forget that people engaging in adultery often erect a bubble of fantasy that can even include things like "God must have meant this to happen or he wouldn't have let us meet." Sin IS powerful, blinding, and deceitful to all, especially to those caught up in its snare.
God bless.
P.S. I am very apologetic to you if I got your gender wrong when I referred to you as "he" in a previous post.
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Aloha endures4evr,
I know there is an awful lot of stuff written down here. Much of which really doesn't have to do with what you asked. So just do your best to wade through the stuff that doesn't really pertain to your situation and focus on what you can use.
Believe it or not you have quite a good group of posters here. Many very experienced in their areas. I mean Morterman, WAT, Ark, Foreverhers, RookKev. ...all very passionate about saving marriages, very protective of the people that come here and each having a lot of Wisdom.
And with that, I'd like to tell you from one Christian to another; the Bible tells us that all Wisdom comes from God. God also tells us that he sometimes uses people that don't follow him, to achive His purposes and it is the Holy Spirit that helps us discern what is His wisdom (as a seminary student you probably already know this though). So, allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you.
I will also suggest that celt06's advice was very sound and brings up a very important issue. Regardless if you are married or not, it is very important that you not spend your time doing anything other than giving Luke the books. Luke needs a male to be accountable to. You cannot be someone he confides in. I recommend this out of experience. That is how my W's A started. She thought she could be a sounding board for a co-worker during his time of trouble in his M. Well one thing led to another and they had an A. The point is Luke needs a male to be accountable to.
A couple of quick questions. Are all of the elders aware of the situation, or just the one you spoke to? And is there anyone else that is aware of the situation that is a respected person in the church? Would they be willing to join you in approaching the elders or with talking to the BS's?
In summary, Just wade through the passion, let the Holy Spirit guide you to the wisdom here and help Luke find someone (or more than one) to be accountable to.
Blessings and continued prayers for all over there.
S&C
No man likes to have his intelligence or good faith questioned, especially if he has doubts about it himself. - Henry Brooks Adams
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Good points, S&C.
In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Christians have actually come up here, staged protests, and called for "death to gays," among other things. It is indeed sickening. You know people often misrepresent themselves to create adversaries for those they oppose. And only God knows the true intent of peoples hearts. I have a hard time beliving a true Christian is shouting "death to gays". I have friends who are gays and I minister to them and never once has a thought like that crossed my mind and I am a Christian.
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You know, we have these discussions repeatedly here...
Christian get into all sorts of trouble when they start denying their humanity...
We somehow want to fool ourselves into think that we are suddenly above all the temptations common to other folks.
The church is not only supposed to be God's people, but it's also a common social organization (the most common, in fact). All manner of evil will abound wherever there are people together. We shouldn't be surprised.
My affair started in church...that's where I first met the OW and started working closely with her on many projects. Of course, we were expempt from the same affictions of common people (yeah right).
NEVER, EVER think that the church is somehow better than the rest of the world...
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You know, we have these discussions repeatedly here...
Christian get into all sorts of trouble when they start denying their humanity...
We somehow want to fool ourselves into think that we are suddenly above all the temptations common to other folks.
The church is not only supposed to be God's people, but it's also a common social organization (the most common, in fact). All manner of evil will abound wherever there are people together. We shouldn't be surprised.
My affair started in church...that's where I first met the OW and started working closely with her on many projects. Of course, we were expempt from the same affictions of common people (yeah right).
NEVER, EVER think that the church is somehow better than the rest of the world... Who did any of this?? In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Not on this thread but on others. Some Christians have a tendency to lock the "old man" (our humanity) in the basement and pretend he doesn't exist. It's better that we acknowledge him for who he is and respond to him compassionately and lovingly. He is that broken part of ourselves. I did this. It led to my downfall. I picked up a feeling on this thread that perhaps this situation should be dealt with "more carefully" because it's in a church and not somewhere else. So, I suppose I was projecting my own church experience, which was very bad.
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Greetings, S&C--
There are a few on the Board of Deacons that are aware of the affair. In fact, one of the deacons is Luke's brother-in-law. His family has been colluding the affair for him, which makes this kind of sticky. To compound matters, Luke's sister, who is no longer the church secretary, is on the town Council of Churches, and some folks in the town who belong to our church are aware of the affair. **To answer a previous question from someone, our church denomination is United Church of Christ, Congregational. It is a mainstream but liberal Protestant church.
Yes, S&C, there are a couple of church members who are on other committees that could go before the Deacons. One such member was one I described in a previous post who saw Luke and Kathy at a fundraiser engaged in a long embrace with thier eyes closed when the minister went outside to bring the car around.
Leslie [color:"green"] [/color]
"That's the sign post up ahead. Your next stop. The twilight zone."--Rod Serling
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(((((endurse4evr)))))
From your description of the church and the various "parties to the play," things could get very contentious and ugly. The affair still not sound as though there is solid evidence, outside of this apparant inappropriate hug, but enough of "appearance" seems to indicate the need for confirming or denying that an actual affair is taking place.
Where things could get messy is that the church may be confronted with having to decide on being obedient to the Scripture, or if the affair is confirmed, somehow ignoring it and letting it be a festering sore in the body. Churches have split over just this sort of thing. I know of one pastor who had to resign because he would not let adultery between some members of his congregation go unaddressed, and the leaders of the church would not enforce any discipline.
When the "Standards" of God are relaxed and the "opinion" of man is substituted, all sorts of problems will happen sooner or later.
I guess what I am saying is that where there is "smoke," there is probably a "fire." It is possible that the affair is limited to "smoke" right now (an Emotional Affair), but it will not take long if not doused quickly for it to blaze into a hot fire (Physical Affair).
God bless.
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Thanks so much for your reply. The embrace was actually the tip of the iceburg. A couple of people saw them together in his car kissing on a coujple of different occasions (in a neighboring town)--and I was one of the 'witnesses'. Luke's best friend, who's more like a dad to Luke but doesn't attend the church, confided (to me only) that they have a few established meeting places. So I think it is fairly clear that the two are involved. I am torn between disclosure or letting it run its course because I fear for the emotional impact on our minister and (believe it or not) Luke. I know his wife, and she has always been a very cold individual who waited so long for a child that she focuses all of her attention on him, i.e. watching movies, playing games, etc. (He's 10 years old and still gets strapped into a car seat. Mom insists on bumpter pads when she takes him bowling also.) She's very critical and condescending to Luke as well. I know the affair is dead wrong. But I understand where he was coming from. He was lonely. He and Janet haven't slept together in a number of years, so when the minister's wife started hanging around the farm, flirting, telling him he was "cute" (yes, I heard her.), and saying negative things about her husband to him, he drank it all in. He thought he'd hit the jackpot, that he'd died and gone to heaven. I'd think so too except that she has a far different agenda. She's done this before (at their former church). I wish I understood why she is so compelled to get involved with men in her husband's congregations! Talk about passive-aggressive!! There's obviously some kind of thrill in having affairs under her husband's nose, so to speak. At any rate, Luke will be destroyed when the doo-doo hits the fan (and it inevitably will). So I fear for him. Thanks very much for your thoughts and imput! Leslie waterfalls02333@yahoo.com [color:"pink"] [/color]
"That's the sign post up ahead. Your next stop. The twilight zone."--Rod Serling
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It sounds like you are enabling Luke's affair and somehow think that Janet isn't worthy of Luke. Janet may need a wake up call but that may help them refresh their marriage and get balance back where her role as mother and wife are concerned. Luke chose her to be his wife initially and she is the mother of his child. Surely they can get back what has been lost. She may be so focused on her son and overprotective...it doesn't mean she will always stay that way. I hope she has a choice in the matter.
As long as there is a 'secret' affair they do not have that chance.
Janet has a right to know what some many people seem to know so that she can have a chance at saving her marriage or getting out of it if she chooses.
You seem to know lots of folks who are involved in affairs and you don't seem to be taking a stand against their behavior, aside from talking about it amongst your friends.
A friend that enables by keeping this 'secret' from the betrayed spouse, is no friend but more like a fiend.
You fear for Luke, I fear for Janet and the Pastor. The Pastor stands to lose his church and his profession.
Last edited by Trix; 02/10/06 12:25 AM.
Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
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Okay, it would seem that it is confirmed. Then it MUST be dealt with, it cannot be allowed to continue until the church is destroyed.
This is very serious business, but you have at least two people who know for certain. As the phrase goes, "on the testimony of two or more witnesses...."
It is now incumbent upon you to have the affair brought, first of all, to the attention of the Pastor AS both the Pastor of the Church and as the affected husband. TWO of you should go together, who have first hand knowledge and eyewitness testimony, and with much caring and love, inform him of his wife's adultery so that he can take corrective steps. Make sure that he knows that if he is unable to get his wife to stop the affair IMMEDIATELY, then Matthew 15:18-20 Church discipline steps will need to be implemented to both help the sinners caught up in adultery and to protect the church.
This is no longer an "academic exercise" in "what if they are having an affair." It has graduated to "they ARE having an affair and IT'S NOT A SECRET.
Here is the one thing that you can do, if you want to, that does not involve going to the Pastor or the Church first. You CAN go directly to the two people involved in the affair, let them know that it is wrong, a sin against God, their spouses and children, and against the church. Tell that the affair must end now and they must agree to no contact with each other at all. Tell the Pastor's wife that others in the congregation also know of her affair and you are giving her the chance to confess to her husband. ONE day. That's it, then it will be brought to the Pastor's attention for the good of the church and because he needs to know what his wife has been up to and that it is already affecting various members of the church who know about it.
Your friend Luke is going to be hurt, but he may react with denial at first, as is very common with Wayward Spouses. Let him know that he needs to end the affair NOW and seriously think about telling his wife and seeking her forgiveness. If the affair continues, there is no way to keep it from her, she WILL find out eventually. The child will be affected, and most likely he will wind up divorced and not be there as a full-time Dad for his child.
There are NO good outcomes. Even the unlikely outcome of both of them getting divorced and then the two "lovers" getting married is very remote, and the survivability of that marriage is not statistically very good. In fact, since she has a history of cheating, what would make him think the she would eventually cheat on him too?
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