Ladies,

Sorry I havent posted. Its been busy and hard to get on the internet. I grow weary of this. There is nothing I have done that deserves this treatment. You're probably right, I should never have taken him back. But I cant change that now. I will just have to go from here. I dont even know if I want to recover this marriage. I certainly dont want to recover what I have.
So, this is where I am.
LA, please dont be too deep right now. I just cant take it. I feel very fragile. I really would like to just run away.

I will check back later.
K

I get that you feel fragile and want to run...which is why it was really tough for me to write what I did. I tried the old approach and erased it...we were working on loving yourself, and then your thoughts remained all on WH...his life, his doing and not doing...his struggles.

Your feeling of fragility and running away from pain comes from that little girl in you, Kgirl...I put it in my moniker for you. She's a beautiful, hopeful, wishful, needy, and volatile child, who fears and fears and fears.

You are no longer that little girl. You have experienced and grown in life miles beyond that fragile girl you carry within you. You "take it" and continue to choose to be a loving mother and a faithful wife. Your choices. You also choose to not nuture that little girl inside you, rather, to react to her, feel like her and make choices based on what she wants...because you believe, it is what you want most.

You are not bad or wrong for taking WH home again...without boundaries, understanding or loving yourself. You are not defective...though self-destructive feels the same. You are wholly human, and know a lot about yourself. If only you would stop viewing you through other eyes than your own, dear woman. When we do, we see through near-sighted and far-sighted vision...cataracts of issues that have nothing to do with us...our own eyes were given to us to use on us...hence, not judging lest ye be judged.

I believe you love, and love the way you love...and in your choices of how you love, you are saying you want to be loved in the same way...forgiven, accepted, as is. Is there anything defective about that? Forgive yourself, Kgirl...accept yourself...know why you choose to take back what isn't yours...WH's struggle is his alone. Yours is yours. You can't fix each other, only embrace yourselves, completely...and only one of you need to do it first.

I am addressing the adult Kgirl...who can go deep, rise above and solider on. She's smart, attractive, actively facing her life and can do that. Her little girl, tiny child, is not capable right now of doing any of that. She's scared, feels wrong, stupid, unforgivable and incapable of being loved for just being. This last take-back isn't anything knew...she has felt this way her whole life.

Adult Kgirl knows we always have to go from here...it is the only place we've ever had or will have.

Time to be O&H...tell WH how you took him back home, because you crave proof of love...here is how I'm better for you, should be loved more for, knowing and caring authentically about you, your pain, physical and all the rest. Here is proof I am there for you, when you have believed otherwise...here is where I am and I feel like I betray myself and choose to love you above myself. You're not doing that, I am. You are not someone I can win in a contest...you are someone I choose to love and I'm going to stop hating myself for that.

I own it. My choice.

He knows he has to leave since he made contact. Show him your boundary, firmly, kindly, lovingly. Doesn't mean you lose...didn't mean you lost when he made contact. You only lose when you fail to enforce your boundary and show clearly what are your choices and what are his. Show your sorrow, your fear, frustration, and own you feel fragile, like a failure, a self-betrayer and one who mistreats herself. Tell him you're growing in knowledge, awareness, and that his issues are his own, not yours. You are not the cause, control or cure for him. And you cannot be the ear, the arms or the safe harbor for him.

Marriage is...

Having a safe harbor...and being one.

includes acceptance of selves...humans, whole, complete, separate and equal...being honest and open by choice, knowing their choices...including to honor, aid and owning their choices.

Own yours. Your real ones. Why you did what you did, chose what you chose...get very real about your motive, your expectations, hopes--with yourself. Know this pattern, trace it back...accept these have been your choices and believe you can choose differently.

Kgirl there is nothing in you that I haven't felt, thought or believed...no judgment or condemnation. Been there. Known that. My compassion is as authentic as my concern, support and trust...I know you will bloom. I'm just handing you your own water.

LA

T/J Lovinganyway - would you mind sending me an email - I have a question I have to ask you.

williams at smartchat dot net dot au

thanks.

Well, LA, I told him last night that I couldnt go on this way. We were out buring leaf piles late at night. He got a text message from her. I walked away and went inside because I was upset. Got inside and thought to myself that now was as good a time as any. Went back out and told him we needed to talk. Told him I couldnt share any longer. That he had given his word when he came back, that this was the last time, that he was done and I accepted him back on his word and he has failed to honor that.

We did a lot of the you did, you said thing. I cried a lot. He said that he had been able to cry for the first time the night before in a very long time. Of course, it is because he misses her.

Anyway, a lot of things were said but I told him that he couldnt live here and continue with her. That he would have to find a new place to live. After all the arguing and crying, I left for a while. Just grabbed keys, in my jammies and no purse and took off. Was only gone about 10 or 15 mins. But came back, went inside and went to bed. He took a shower and asked if he could sleep in our bed. He hasnt slept there in several nights. I let him. It is entirely possible to sleep in full size bed and never touch another person.

Anyway, he just left for work. Hugged me for making him a lunch and that was it. Dont know if he will come home or not.

We went to church yesterday and the sermon was tailor made for us. From the sermon, to the skit, all the way down to the music. I cried the whole service. My heart was heavy all day. It is still heavy.

So that is where it is today. LA, I wish you were close by for me to run to. To draw strength from. Thanks for listening to me.

K

Dang, I should have headed to Mt Pleasant instead of Tahoe...you gotta lake...some hills...I could have pretended.

Oh, honey...I know what it is like as God speaks through everyone...sermons, music...children...trees and signs. What did you hear? What were YOU being told?

Burning leaves...how symbolic. God doesn't want you to miss this chance at all. Burn those false beliefs inside you, the ones hurting you and God...they fell away from you for a reason...you outgrew them, but you kept them as terrible souvenirs, like they were a part of you...burn them, Kgirl.

I'm not talking about your marriages or choices...those beliefs that said, "If I do for others what I would like done for me, then they will." "If I am just more loving, caring, supportive, good to be with, then I will be accepted and loved." Burn it. "If my WH is in real pain, he'll change." Burn it. "If I am good enough, I won't be rejected." Burn all of them. Find them. Ferret them out and know you have outgrown them.

Replace them with,

"God doesn't make no junk."
"There isn't one single creation made defectively on this earth, without purpose or reason...all are significant and important."
"I am God's creation."
"My H is equal and separate from me.
"He is God's creation."
"He owns his own thoughts, feelings and beliefs. I cannot make him reject, love, be faithful, or be angry with me. Those are his, not mine."
"I can only control and cure myself. I cause my own pain, joy, freedom, sorrow, loyalty in my choice to believe what I do. I own my part...I am significant. I am led by God to my purpose and my love of myself."

If you are choosing to continue with Plan A and communicate with WH...do a real Plan A...thoroughly, completely...like in my post to CompletelyLost tonight. Like DazedandConfused. Bloom. Embrace your life. Choose your perspective. You are worth it. God made you worthy.

LA

Naw, Tahoe sounds much nicer than Mt. Pleasant. I hope you enjoyed every second of your vacation.

The sermon was on bridges in our lives. The bridge we try to build to God. The bridges to other people. Talked about how we need to make the first step with people to bridge the gap between us. Had a skit on a husband and wife. Cried the whole service.

I printed out your last post so I can read it over. I wish I could get my two persons to be one. But when I get hurt, I just fall back into my little girl self and it takes me a while to see what my adult self knows.

As for Plan A. If he decides to go this time, it will be Plan B or D for me. I wont be talking to him.
But things are really complicated. When he came back this time, a friend of his moved in as well. He is an older gentleman that is the guitarist in the band they are putting together. Great music and they are very good. Well he has gotten to know me and does not want to have anything to do with WH's OW. I have told him he can stay here for now if WH goes. The chances of the band making it with all this are slim. So it is something else for WH to think about. But WH still maintains that he doesnt love me "that" way. That he is in love with her and he misses her terribly. He has said this so much I am beginning to believe his fog. I am beginning to believe that what he is telling me true. That he never loved me and should have never married me and that our kids were the only bright spots in our marriage. 23 years...

I will see if I can read up on some of these threads. I have to share my time online with our house guest so I dont get the times I used to have.

How do I meld the little girl with the adult? Is there a formula?

Thanks LA for caring.

Katie

"If he decides to go this time,"

I'm confused. He is leaving because you said for him to...and it isn't immediate? I'm confused.

This isn't his choice...he made his when he made contact. Your choice is to have him out of the home, not for revenge, but as a boundary enforcement. He knows this...so it isn't his choice.

Oh, Kgirl...please don't have another person into this...you are not being kind or supportive...you are being self-destructive. I know it doesn't feel like it, but it is. You are not respecting others...they chose to need a place...you do not have to now choose to provide one. Respect them more...respect they are capable and choosing their lives, as you are your own.

Both need to go now...you are choosing to believe his fog and this is again self-destructive to you. This is not about you being better, smarter, or being mean...it is about the reality that we all are human, live by our choices, and respecting others.

Those John Bradshaw books are the ones to help you heal...give you this knowledge I keep throwing your way...and understand why you give yourself permission to react from your child instead of your wise adult. All within your power, Kgirl...nothing defective in you.

Do not choose to believe your WH...he is full of lies...most to himself and a lot to others...he doesn't know anything but his emotions...is caging himself and pointing fingers elsewhere. You knew this about him and accepted it in him for years...when he was pointing at you, as his hole-filler, his love, his reason...and you have had the other side of that same sword turned toward you for two years now...all untrue, disrespectful, both in the good times and now bad. Same issues, Kgirl...time for you to understand your part, your half, where you end and he begins, and know there is Freedom, Responsibility and Love...the real stuff...and it is all within you, your control...

You are already whole, Kgirl. You can do this. Not two people...two separate partners in a marriage of one enmeshed joining...

LA

Well, I think I am done letting that man hurt me anymore. He didnt come home last night. Went to her place. Said he had to take her some forms. I am pretty sure they were divorce forms for her. But I also think he just purchased do it yourself divorce forms for himself. Said today that he just doesn't think things are going to work out between us.
I said a few things he didnt like...they were probably DJ's and AO's but I am tired of holding my tongue on my anger so as not to hurt his feelings. Screw the feelings. He doesnt care about mine or our kids. So I think I am going to just let this play out or file myself.
I deserve better than this. I decided today that it is not me. I am not the problem anymore. It is him and he doesnt want to change and he doesnt seem to want to change or want me me. Says he grew in love with her. But he is turning his back on everything he has ever believed in.
So thats it. That is where I am today. If I hold on to my anger maybe I can get thru this without breaking down or falling back into my old ways.
Really would like to talk to you, LA.

Katie

"they were probably DJ's and AO's but I am tired of holding my tongue on my anger so as not to hurt his feelings."

Eliminating AOs and DJs were for you and your self-respect. They weren't ever about not hurting his feelings.

Holding onto your anger is letting your child pull your hair out.

Do exactly what you have decided...box up whatever he brought with him...including band mate...and send them on their way. No contact. Not email, phone or in person. Done. Go dark. No letter required. File yourself. Get a restraining order.

You can do this. You are overdue in understanding you cannot cause, cure or control any other person on the planet.

I'm here for ya.

LA

He called tonight from work to check on us. Storming bad here. I almost told him not to bother. But I refrained.

I agree with the no contact and all that. Just is complicated. But it is going to be asap. I think bandmate is going to stay with me for a while till he can get on his feet. Sort of a mutual thing. I need help with finances and support, he needs a place to stay and get his life together. But that is all it is.

I will let him file and go to the expense. I think he has already bought the papers to do it himself. But there is nothing that says I have to sign them if I dont like what they say.

I just need to follow thru this time and not get weak and needy.
And your right. I cant control him or make him feel anything for me. If he doesnt want to honor his word or committment, then there is not a darn thing I can do about it. Please tell me all men in the world are not like this???

K

He left today. Packed a bag and went to her place to stay for a few days till he gets an apt closer to here.

Hurts the same today as it did the first time he left, or the third or all the other times.

Is it possible that he really does love her and they will be happy? Can you be happy after all the pain you cause when you have an affair and destroy your children? What kind of person can live with themself or OP knowing they did that?

Just hurting tonight. And sick. Sipping hot tea wishing it was a hot toddy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

K

No, Kgirl...it isn't possible that he loves her and that they will be happy. Love is a choice from within...conscious, fully yours, and he refuses to see his destruction, power or choice.

No more contact, please.

I mean to WH...not me!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was reading the notsoyouneak had sick H and was feeling sick, too...so it's going around.

And to think...awww...here I am in my shorts, 83-degrees of gorgeous...thinking of washing my car.

:::giving you a butt wave 'cuz I can:::

LOL!

Stop focusing on him...turn to you and your kids...how is your son in jail? How's your fine daughter?

Got mosquitoes yet?

Life is blooming out there, Kgirl...and in here.

Be well.

(((((((((((((((Katie)))))))))))))))

LA

Son has court on Tuesday. Hopes for probation. I hope not. Daughter is ok, I guess. She doesn't talk much about all this. Her dad just told her that he didnt think it was going to work out between him and I and that he was sorry. He NEVER mentions OW to the kids. Always puts the problem on me and him.
Oldest son sent WH an email. Basically telling him that we are a family and cant be if he is gone and hoped he would stay with us.

I dont know what it is outside. Been inside all day. Band had practice. Been deep in blues and zyde-rock all day. Until WH left. Now just sitting in the dark with my laptop and hot tea.

Yes I saw the big ole butt wave....dang, forgot my sunglasses!!!!!! hahahah
HUGE mosquitos here. Waiting for the lightening bugs to come out. Honeysuckle in bloom. Smells so sweet on the heavy night air. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the hugs. I need'em.

Katie

Still feeling like crap today. Been in bed sick. Physically and heartsick. Watched a really sad movie on tv called, On the Wings of a Dove. Very sad.

Today is the anniversary of my WH's father and grandfathers deaths. They died on the same day, 1 year apart. I feel the urge to send him a text or call him, but I know I shouldnt.

Hope you are enjoying the day, LA.

K

Why was WH practicing at your house?

Have you gotten "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud & Townsend yet from the library? Good reading when you're heartsick in bed.

When you want something from your WH...like faithfulness...are you using that desire as a signal to give it to yourself?

Are you telling me you're down, sorrowful so that I don't swing my 2x4's?

Are you manipulating me?

I enjoy any day there is a post from you. (((((((((((((Kgirl)))))))))))))

Really big, soul-crushing hug from me to you.

When are we gonna get back on the self-care road together? And yes, my butt IS white...and you may get cataracts from my mooning you in thirty years.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Learning to grieve is primary to understanding life.

Each time you want to contact WH...contact yourself. You're missing you a whole heckuva lot.

LA

WH was practing here because I told him he could. Now that he is gone I will let him practice here for the moment and I will just be gone that day. When he has his own place to practice he can move it there.

I have not read Boundries in Marriage but I have read the Boundries book. It had lots of practical advice and things that I need to practice.

Not trying to manipulate you. Not consciencly anyway. Just feel yukky.

Grieving is hard and it takes time. I know this. Self help road....I think I am lost. Need a roadmap to find my way back. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Try not to blind anybody else today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

K

Why do you believe others' needs determine your choices?

What if your choosing based on others' needs so like slicing them up with a razor, would you still choose to meet those needs?

LA

I'm sorry, I am not following. Could you explain?

K

You're not following? Well, heck...then I'll follow you, 'k?

"When he has his own place to practice he can move it there"

Sounds like you told him he could because he doesn't have another place to practice, is that correct?

Or not?

LA

It got cold and gray since I mooned you. Says snow for tomorrow. See what happens when I shake my great weather in another's face?

Still fun to do.

LA