If they are his friends, it is not likely you can immediately enlist them as allies. You mentioned his parents. That is a better target. Do WH and OW still work together or just like to travel alot? If they work in the same company, what are your options there. Husband sounds like he may be Jewish. Rabbi maybe? Who do you think doesn't know about the affair that either WH or OW would prefer did not find out. Those are the people you need to expose to.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. I know that feeling but it is ungrounded. You haven't done anything wrong. One of the first casualties in the A war is your self-respect. You need to work on yourself and get that back.

There is no such thing as "supposed to talk". Talk if you are ready - postpone if you are not. You start setting the timetable.

I understand the concept of the exposure. I am just not sure if now is the right moment.

Since I told him I knew of the affair, he did not say a word. I did all the talking about getting our marriage back, he just listened.

Should I wait to hear his first reaction first? We've been talking nicely otherwise. He called me from his trip, left the hotel number (for the first time... but this time I know for sure that he is with his kids and will visit his parents).

We don't really have a Rabbi, we are not part of a community. Now I understand, that since the affair he withdrew from a community life. I guess he was just focusing on her, and I was focused on the kids.

Welcome.

Your story is not new...but we will help you with its twists and unique turns.

We will pray for your too.

Just remember, you can't do a MODIFIED MB. You work the PROGRAM. That means DOING ALL THE PLAN A..and if needed, then plan B.

Plan a. Learn Carrot and Stick. Awesome thread!

Memorize it!

And expose.

Exposure is NOT meant to feel good. It will not make the WS feel warm and fuzzy about you. That is why you work hard to meet EN's during plan A WHEN YOU EXPOSE THE AFFAIR.

Your WH will react predictably. He may threaten, get mad...but he'll get thru it.

Many have walked in your shoes...and many have recovered. Many marriages recover here...and others like myself recover differently but are stronger and better for having endured the fight of their lives.

Thanks, but I need more advice.

I just spoke with my WH ex-wife for one hour and she told me he also cheated on her during their M.

Their relationship was fights all the time. Mine with him is not, quite the contrary. But anyway he cheated.

If he decides to stay (which I still don't know if he will) does this mean he is a serial cheater, and will do it again?

What did your husband tell you the reason for the end of his marriage was?

He said the marriage was bad since the beginning, that they never got along. He said there was pressure from his family and he stayed married (he regrets that). Then they kids, so they stayed married for 11 years. He said that it was a relieved to get divorced and meeting another woman was just the final drop.

He also said he learned from the experience. Which it is difficult to believe since he is behaving the same way.

Even if I negleted him (because of the kids) he did not wait long to start having an A. And from what I've been reading in the postings, his A is longer than most since it's been going on for more than 3 years!

That's too bad that he lied about things. I can tell you for a fact that I would never date or marry a man that had cheated on his ex.

I'm glad you called his ex-wife. What brought that up?

B,
Wish I had the knowledge when I met FWH. I am his 3rd wife, he cheated on his 2nd. I didnt interview her, but darn sure wished I had.
E,
Did you know about him cheating on his ex prior to marrying him?
JE

Yes. He told me he was unhappy in his first M and it was in a transition phase just before separation.

But from what his ex-wife told me it was more than once. She said she tried to save M. I spoke with his brother and he said his first marriage was really bad. He thinks ours is different.
I don't know.

Believer, what brought me to talk to ex: she called me to check on kids since they are travelling together. When I told her, she started to cry and said she could not believe how stupid he is.

So, is it worth fighting for? I love him and I want to have a loving, stable marriage. Will he be able to go through it?

Also, he will be in parents house on Wednesday. Should I expose now or is it too early?

Oh, it's time to expose for sure. That will shed some light on the affair and may end it.

His pattern of cheating though is a different story. He is the only one who can change that.

Advice:

Can I ask his ex-wife to call his mother and not do it myself?
I want be able to deflect some of his anger when he knows that his mother is aware of the affair. If there is any chance of reconciliation, it might upset it.

Please advice.

Why are you concerned about deflecting his anger? Are you concerned about physical abuse? If no abuse, make the call yourself. If abuse, make the call yourself and get a bodyguard. Part of the benefit of you making that call is that you begin to swing the balance of power back toward you and WH will start to feel the hurt.

Well, I was reading the carrot and stick plan (again) and I realized that the carrot part is all I saw before (talk about being doormat). I have issues with the stick part. So I see now why I have to do the exposure and not apologize for it.

The only thing is that his mother does not speak English so well and we ofter misunderstood each other since I do not speak German. So maybe I will ask ex-wife to talk to her just so she understands what's going on and confronts him when he is there.

I was thinking, when I confronted him about the A, he asked to talk when he comes back from the trip. He said he did not have time now. But time was not a problem. And he did not said "I need to think" or anything like that. I felt he was already thinking about leaving but did not want to go into that now that he will be at his parents house.

Is he being so manipulative? It is still difficult to believe the man I love so much is so selfish. Is it even worth to worry about him still?

Please read post above.

I changed my mind. I will call his mother myself, I will find a way to make her understand me. It is time to stop being afraid of what H will think.

I am scared, not of abuse, but that he will never love me again. But does he love me now?

Please support!!!!

Update.

Traicionado:
I heard you. I called his mother, even with the language problem. She said I was mistaken, that she knows WH loves me. Then, she asked me to explain things better to my WH's brother and he will explain to her. She was sweet.
I know WH will be mad but it is time to stop worrying about him. It's time he does not feel so comfortable having me and OP.

Also, I was reading your posts. I am sorry for what you are going through and I admire your attitude.

Estrela,

My WW had an affair that has lasted over three years. To the best of my knowledge, the affair continues. My WW is Latina. She desired to marry a non-Latino because as you know, it is infamous in the male-dominated Latin world that the men cheat. Of course, the women are not allowed to, in fact, would be disowned if they did. I desired to marry my WW because for one, I was in love with her, and two, I figured that with her sound upbringing she would be faithful and loyal especially considering that she sought the same in me. I was wrong of course and the shattering of that illusion is a very high hurdle.

Whether as a result of culture or individual traits, your WH is likely a philanderer. My WW fell victim to a philanderer, or what I prefer to call a serial predator. Most philanderers are men and it is sick behavior. The good news is that he can be helped. It will likely be left to you to convince him of his need for help. At the link below is an article that discusses philandering as well as other types of infidelity.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19930501-000027.html

Is the OW employed by the same company as your WH? If so, expose her at work. When I first began posting here, I was advised to expose. The sole purpose of exposure is to help bring a quicker end to the A. Absent exposure, you are depending on the A dying a natural death which does not always occur. I have since exposed. The walls of secrecy surrounding my WW’s affair will soon come tumbling down. It is futile to predict what the result will be. When given probabilities, you have to go with those in your favor. Exposure places the outcome in your favor. I should have exposed immediately. You also do not refuse to expose because of fear or concern of your WH’s reaction. He may say to you that now there is no chance of R because you have told the world about his A. It is a manifestation of the blinding light of exposure that may cause him to react this way. Expose for the sake of your M. Expose for the sake of your children.

Here is where I go against the grain of MB. Your WH’s affair is not your fault. No amount of problems in a M can cause a spouse to have an affair or justify an affair. Do not ever accept blame for his A. It sounds like you believe he started the A because he wasn’t ready to be saddled with children. Tough. The fact is he does have children and should be man enough to devote himself to his family.

ToddAC

Thanks for your input.

I am working on exposure with his family.
He hired her (when they were already having an A) to help him start a new business (now it looks like they were starting a second family, he gave her a salary, health insurance, and she was working with him.) OF COURSE the business went sour and he lost tons of money.

I can feel he is very much involved with her and I don't know if it is worth the fight. He has this tendency you pointed to affirm himself through women.

I am just waiting his return to see his first reaction.

Meanwhile, the postings here are keeping me sane. Thanks.

Good job on exposing him to his family.

He will likely be EXTREMELY ANGRY. He will say it is none of your business, none of their business, this was not the right way to tell them, he was going to work on the marriage, but now won't, you're crazy, how could you hurt his family, he will never trust you again, this is the last straw, he wants a divorce, blah, blah, blah. They all say the same things.

believer is right as always.

You may have indicated already but is the OW married? If so, expose to her H.

Estrela,

You have a lot of decision to make and at a time when you are not in the best emotional state to make them. You are wondering whether you even want to be with this person ever again. That is natural. We all suffer those thoughts. I still have them and I have committed to R. I saw an interesting thread yesterday because it touchs on the grain of one of my biggest doubts - if I do get through all this, recover the marriage and get my WW back in the family, where will we be? What will we have?

This is a complex problem and you are only on the first step. Your self-respect has been destroyed by the one person who had no right to do so. I guess my point is that this doubt is one that will not go away for a long time so, if you decide for R, it will be a recurring theme.

Good job on calling MIL. I would take her advice and enlist the help of another family member who speaks German and call her again. It is critical that MIL know the details so she cannot deny the A.

You sound concerned that WH has decided to leave you for OW. It sounds like he has done this kind of thing before. Why do you think he hasn't left you already for the OW? Why is he still with you? Is it the kids? I would give it some thought before you talk to him. You need to try to understand what leverage you have.

At this stage of things, you need to sit down and decide what you would like to happen. Not what will happen because that is beyond your control. What would be your preference in a perfect world? Try not to base that on your feelings for WH or what you think his feelings are for you. If you want to make the decision based on feelings, I can give you the answer already.

This forum is a great place and there are some fantastic people here but you still need to get some good support around you (IC for example). Try not to get advice from friends and avoid advice from family like the plague. Family always wants to take sides - just like they did at the wedding. You need to take care of yourself right now. You need to think about what you want, start developing a plan to work toward that goal and then begin down that path one step at a time. I haven't read "The Pilgrim's Progress" since I was a kid but I am thinking about reading it now. I don't know why I feel the need to.

Continue with exposure where it will do some good. Don't worry about making WH mad. It only means that it is having an effect which is what you want. He won't leave you because of it. If he leaves, it will be for other reasons. You need to start taking care of you and, whatever happens, protect the kids from this in every way you can.