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EagleTooo... I tried to post to you yesterday but it disappeared. So I have a new thought today. First, Caren has a good point. Don't romanticize the FOM. That doesn't accomplish anything. Instead, why not try to romanticize your H? Surely you had "in love" feelings for him when you were first dating, and when you brought your children into the world. Surely you used to do things together that were fun. Why not go back to that and try to recreate some of those good feelings? When I was at my foggiest, I picked up an old photo album and saw all these photos of H and I and our friends doing all the things we loved to do. I started to realize what I would be giving up if I jumped ship. Why not consider putting thoughts of the D on the back burner and truly try to make things work with H and your family? Not just for show, or for the kids, but really and truly try for everyone's sake (including your own)? You might surprise yourself. I do hope you keep posting, but would not blame you for leaving either. FWSs tend to get driven off this place with amazing regularity, either by bitter BSs or because of conflicts with both partners posting. Now let's see if this post sticks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Thank you for your honesty. I hear you say you fixed yourself up so that you could feel worth a man like FOM and you got him. He was your ideal you weren't worth before?
My point would be that your H loved you for you, as you were, and you didn't look broken or not good enough. If you had to make yourself over to get FOM, then you were being cared for because of an image. Now this may be the image you wanted all your life, but our true selves don't change. You say couldn't get a guy like FOM before, with your true self shining. I see that as a good thing for you and that God didn't want someone like FOM to be in your life. He made you for a purpose.
I believe Eagle loved, accepted and stood by you, as do your children, for your true self. This can be really difficult to accept when we don't accept ourselves first.
Just a thought.
LA
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MelodyLane
I have told that I haven't answered your questions. I apologize to you , but I thought that I had completed this.
I'm here to be with our kids, work on the family and get a job to help pay off our bills.
I don't believe that I have held him hostage with divorce over his head. I'm doing what I can at this time. Husband sees and understands this one minute and the next it's "all for show". We have discussed and set up long term plan for getting us out of debt. Mrs. E, I can understand why he thinks it is for show, as your words seem to indicate that it is. You have said you want a divorce and are only trying so that people can't say you didn't try. Those are not the words of someone who is sincerely trying to save their marriage, but someone who is only putting on a show. Can you understand why this would be upsetting to him? Are you sincerely trying to save your marriage or are you, as you said, simply putting on an effort so that it won't be thrown in your face? Because he does deserve to know the answer to this question since it directly impacts his life. And I will ask again, if you want a divorce, as you say, why are you there? The OM is very handsome, well built, active (likes to do things), rugged outdoors kind of man. The type of man I have always been attracted to my whole life, but couldn't get. I got in shape, happy with me and in my skin and attracted the man I have always liked. I find this so very sad. The type of man this is, is the type who lies to his girlfriend and sleeps with married women. That is a very ugly man indeed who has very little respect for women.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I do hope you keep posting, but would not blame you for leaving either. FWSs tend to get driven off this place with amazing regularity, either by bitter BSs or because of conflicts with both partners posting. Thats strange, GBH, because I had never noticed this. This forum is full of WS,' and I don't see them being "driven off." Even so, no one except a MOD has the power "to drive someone off" the forum. If someone leaves, they leave of their own volition and probably weren't sincerely seeking help in the first place. Folks who really want help, and are honest with themselves, couldn't be driven off by wild horses.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I forgot to answer your question about the A. The OM is very handsome, well built, active (likes to do things), rugged outdoors kind of man. The type of man I have always been attracted to my whole life, but couldn't get. I got in shape, happy with me and in my skin and attracted the man I have always liked. I must say, it sounds to me like you are going above and beyond "radical honesty" and into the realm of just being plain nasty mean. You know your husband is reading this thread and yet you continue to seemingly want to hurt him further... How would you feel if he was the WS and you the BS and he made a statement like: "I forgot to answer your question about the A. The OW is very beautiful, well built, active (likes to dance), sexy vivacious kind of woman. The type of woman I have always been attracted to my whole life, but couldn't get. I got in shape, happy with me and in my skin and attracted the woman I have always liked."
Sing loud for the sunshine, pray hard for the rain.
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Mrs. Eagle, You said I have signed a POJA for husband and hopefully will make him happy and more progress will continue. I read and learn from your experiences and read the books. You do realize that even signing the POJA, should be POJA'd? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The POJA is to negotiate a win-win in anything you two decide to POJA. If you don't feel signing it is a win for YOU, then there is a problem that you two do need to negotiate until you are both in enthusiastic agreement with it. Does this make sense? I hope so. God Bless, JL
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That's great because the the OW is the type of woman I have always been attracted to all my life and couldn't get.
She's smart, funny, committed to her family, is a great mother, persistent, doesn't shreik at the thought of working hard on important matters, takes care of herself but is not vain, and makes other needs more important than her own, loves the Lord, is modest about her beauty, is not bitter or resentful, takes her M vows seriously, is patient and desires to make her M better each day.
Do you see how what you wrote above about OM sounds in written form???
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E2-
Just got done posting on your H's thread, but the comment I made there pertains to both of you. Basically, between your comments here deliberately designed to bait your H, and his on his thread, I'm done. Here's my comments to him:
[quote]
Eagle-
You know what...there are ways of saying things, and then there are other ways of saying things.
Nothing in there in any way meant to be uplifting, caring, loving, constructive, etc...
Nope...you DELIBERATELY chose words that were hurtful, negative, disrespectful, etc...
I tried to make this point earlier to both of you, and it's very clear by both of your threads that neither of you at this point is emotionally mature enough to take in the data. I swear, your thread and hers just reminds me of a pair of sixth-graders trying to hurt each other! All EITHER of you do is attack the other...not once have I seen a single kind, thought out comment on either thread.
At this point, unless one or more of you can grow up a little, I can't offer you any further advice or hope. At this point, neither one of you truly care about trying to REPAIR YOUR MARRIAGE AND FAMILY...you're more concerned with getting the last, most hurtful comment in. When/if you can get past this point, please send a shout out on the board and I'd be glad to offer whatever advice I can then.
Sheesh!
[quote]
Until either or both of you can quit acting like angry children and attacking and baiting each other, I'm not going to waste your time further with advice from my viewpoint. Your comments on this thread have been every bit as angry/spitful/hurtful as his. I can't see any hope for your family at all if this is any kind of example of how the two of you communicate. Regardless...good luck to both of you...YOU NEED IT.
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I'm sorry for being honest when asked a question. I will do as husband tells me to do is think before I speak. I'll have to do this in this realm also.
I lost the weight a shaped up for me because I wasn't happy with me, not for someone else.
Again, I am sorry for my words.
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I'm sorry for being honest when asked a question. What would your reaction be if your daughter used this exact response to you getting on her about saying something to her about the way she talked to you, or to her brother? This isn't honesty...this is sarcasm. Think about it. And when it's the two of you doing this exact same thing back and forth to each other, is it any wonder that you can't communicate? What you both need to do is stop being sarcastic, cruel, intentionally hurtful to each other. Start talking...stop shooting. There are two ways to say and do EVERYTHING...stop choosing the way most likely to hurt your spouse, and start thinking of what the better way would be. Last thing...neither one of you is hurting me by talking this way. I couldn't care less. But...you are BOTH doing the exact worse thing you can do right now. And I've got to ask...what do you think this makes your kids think when they see mom and dad treating each other with this complete lack of compassion, caring, respect? You're not even providing each other the respect that you would a stranger. Bluntly, if I talked like this to my wife, my KIDS would take me to task on it. (not that I let them run the house, by no means...but they know what I taught them about respect, and that this doesn't fit that). Again, I'm not attacking you here...simply trying to show you what it seems like you're not seeing.
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"Never argue with idiots or WSs, They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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"Never argue with idiots or WSs, They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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I do hope you keep posting, but would not blame you for leaving either. FWSs tend to get driven off this place with amazing regularity, either by bitter BSs or because of conflicts with both partners posting. Thats strange, GBH, because I had never noticed this. This forum is full of WS,' and I don't see them being "driven off." Even so, no one except a MOD has the power "to drive someone off" the forum. If someone leaves, they leave of their own volition and probably weren't sincerely seeking help in the first place. Folks who really want help, and are honest with themselves, couldn't be driven off by wild horses. I give you more credit than that. You don't remember the big old food fight last year where a whole legion of people - BS and FWS alike - all jumped ship? It started when a couple people told a BS that using a singing telegram to expose his WW's affair at her workplace was a little over the top. I seem to remember JustUss had a busy couple of days moderating and editing. This iste lost two of its most repentant FWSs that day -- two people who provided an incredible amount of insight into As and recovery. Yes, there are some FWSs here still... dorry and Suzet come to mind as a couple that have provided some great input to me personally. But to say that WSs and FWSs don't get raked over the coals with surprising regularity is ridiculous. Just check out FH's or MEDC's post to me. Or look at the posts to Eagel15tooo right here. **********EDIT************
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:05 PM.
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"Never argue with idiots or WSs, They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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Okay, I'll bite... Why is Eagle bumping his wife's thread? LA (Is this considered aiding and abetting by me posting after his bump? ::  :: I'm too curious not to risk it.)
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Someone asked me to, so I did.
"Never argue with idiots or WSs, They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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[
I give you more credit than that. You don't remember the big old food fight last year where a whole legion of people - BS and FWS alike - all jumped ship? It started when a couple people told a BS that using a singing telegram to expose his WW's affair at her workplace was a little over the top. I seem to remember JustUss had a busy couple of days moderating and editing.
This iste lost two of its most repentant FWSs that day -- two people who provided an incredible amount of insight into As and recovery.
Yes, there are some FWSs here still... dorry and Suzet come to mind as a couple that have provided some great input to me personally. But to say that WSs and FWSs don't get raked over the coals with surprising regularity is ridiculous. Just check out FH's or MEDC's post to me. Or look at the posts to Eagel15tooo right here. Sorry, but I do say it's ridiculous. [nor has Eagle15too been "raked over the coals," good grief] I am here every day and see many more BS' getting raked over the coals than WS'. In fact, I see WS's often treated with kid gloves when some straight talk is in order. And yes, I am a "smart lady;" smart enough to know that no one has the power to "run off" anyone here except a Moderator. If someone leaves, they leave because of their OWN choices. No one has the power to make that choice for them, so please, let's not make them in poor victims. They are not. Again, someone who really wants help couldn't be "run off" by wild horses.
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:13 PM.
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Eagle2- Here's what I just posted on your H's thread...thought it was something that YOU could use as well. Please take this not aimed at your husband...but something aimed directly at you as well. I think that this is very pertinent to BOTH of you. Give this some real thought. Well, IMHO, it doesn't matter if you write out your plan or not...nor do I truly feel that you have to share it with anyone at this point if you're not ready to.
From my perspective, I don't care if you have it written down as a complete OPORD or FRAGO...or if it's all in your mind. I simpy feel that you have to GET a plan, and stick to it. Right now, you're flailing around simply lashing out because you don't have a plan.
Get a plan...it will help you get your feet back under you and get you moving in the right direction.
Again, quit focusing on how she makes you feel, on how she's acting, what she's doing, etc... GET TO A COUNSELOR THAT YOU BOTH CAN WORK WITH...this is critical in my eyes.!!!!
Work on what YOU can fix...and actually LISTEN to her when you can get her to respond to things so that you can clearly understand what areas she feels you can improve.
Bluntly, I would give her the same advice. I still think that the two of you need to re-learn a LOT on how to deal with each other. You're both so ingrained in BAD HABITS that you simply don't even understand what it is you're doing wrong.
You repeatedly 'defend' your method of talking bluntly, etc... STOP IT!
I'm ex-Army...NCO for many years. I too am a BLUF (bottom line up front) kind of guy. But, while I may be blunt (LOL...for example, look at all of my posts to you and your wife!), I do not attack when I talk. I don't retaliate verbally, I try to be very thoughtful about how what I say will be taken. You need to learn to do this and apply that...STARTING RIGHT NOW.
And your wife needs to do the same thing. It's so frustrating trying to advise the two of you when it looks to us like all you're truly interested in doing is getting the last, most hurtful word in.
So...STOP attacking each other, no matter what the other person says or does.
ACTIVELY take measures to find a good MC that you BOTH can use to improve your marriage.
WORK on finding that FRIEND you used to have in your spouse...and work on becoming their friend again as well.
THESE are the baby steps I think the two of you need to start with.
Quit ALL talk or action pertaining to divorce...unless that's what you want to do. Again...working on divorce will destroy your effort to reconcile...and vice versa.
Just my thoughts.
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[
I give you more credit than that. You don't remember the big old food fight last year where a whole legion of people - BS and FWS alike - all jumped ship? It started when a couple people told a BS that using a singing telegram to expose his WW's affair at her workplace was a little over the top. I seem to remember JustUss had a busy couple of days moderating and editing.
This iste lost two of its most repentant FWSs that day -- two people who provided an incredible amount of insight into As and recovery.
Yes, there are some FWSs here still... dorry and Suzet come to mind as a couple that have provided some great input to me personally. But to say that WSs and FWSs don't get raked over the coals with surprising regularity is ridiculous. Just check out FH's or MEDC's post to me. Or look at the posts to Eagel15tooo right here. Sorry, but I do say it's ridiculous. [nor has Eagle15too been "raked over the coals," good grief] I am here every day and see many more BS' getting raked over the coals than WS'. In fact, I see WS's often treated with kid gloves when some straight talk is in order. And yes, I am a "smart lady;" smart enough to know that no one has the power to "run off" anyone here except a Moderator. If someone leaves, they leave because of their OWN choices. No one has the power to make that choice for them, so please, let's not make them in poor victims. They are not. Again, someone who really wants help couldn't be "run off" by wild horses. Well I guess we'll agree to disagree, but I can say for certain that FWWs have been treated so harshly here that they have left because bitter BSs set them back in their recovery. ***********************EDIT*****************
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:29 PM.
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The bottom line is that no one here has power over the emotional reactions of anyone else. And because of that, no one is responsible for something over which they have no control. If someone decides to leave, they do so of their very own volition. No one "ran them off." [how dramatic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />] No one has that power except themselves. Blaming others is just a girly cop out.
I have observed the ones with the biggest problems are those who are deep in the fogged out world of denial. Those in denial are averse to anything that disrupts their little fantasy world. They always react with HOSTILITY when presented with such disruption. So, of course, those people would naturally run the first time they are exposed to anything that disrupts their world of illusion and denial. But they did not run because they were "run off" but because they choose to run from the truth. They were not here for help, but were looking for affirmation of their fantasy and didn't find it here. So, it would be foolish to blame folks here for something that was clearly not in their control.
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:34 PM.
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